What do you think of Land Value Tax (LVT)

Lies!

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Originally Posted by Roy L

No, those who, if their liberty were not being violated, would be at liberty to use it.

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Roy walked through miles and miles of forest, day after day, alone in the woods and the wilds, subsisting mostly on pine nuts and wild berries. Roy was accustomed to being alone, but that did not mean that he was not lonely. Roy was truly a sad, lonely, lonely soul.

Late one afternoon, while rooting for grubs in a felled and rotting tree, Roy spied a column of smoke rising from a small clearing off in the distance. Roy followed this until it he was close enough to see that he had indeed stumbled onto a small settlement.

Ah! I knew it! Roy thought to himself. My natural liberty rights were being violated all along! Were it not for their violations of my natural liberty rights, I would be at liberty to use the very land they are on now. Well, they don't owe me much, because there is other available land around, but they do owe me, by Dog. Perpetually even.

And with that, Roy took a deep, fortifying breath, and set out toward the settlement, to sort out all the willing payers from the evil would be thieves who were oppressing him.

As Roy addressed the several families of settlers as they sat around the fire, a kindly old woman ladled a nice hot bowl of soup for Roy from the large cast iron cauldron that was suspended over the fire.

Roy thanked the old woman, and patiently explained the deprivation he was now suffering because of the natural liberty rights these settlers had deprived him of, given that he would have been at liberty to use this land if were it not for them. Everyone listened intently, politely - wide eyed even, and with rapt interest. Roy felt that he was making progress, and breathed an inner sigh. At last, he felt that he might be witnessing the seeds of a possible dawn of a non-oppressive utopia.

When Roy had finally finished saying his peace, there was silence in the camp. Finally, one of the settler children, a young boy of about 13 years of age with an inquisitive look on his face, approached Roy. In the boy's hand was a long piece of cloth, and in the bottom of that cloth a rock, which the boy brought full circle, with one deft move, into the center of Roy's forehead. This caused Roy to fall backward, unconscious, into the cauldron.

Poor Roy had stumbled onto a rare discovery - the unknown surviving descendants of the Donner Party, who lived by an entirely set of deprivation-based rules of their own. When the freshly provisioned camp broke for higher ground the next day, they decided to deed the land to Roy, including the hole they had dug for his bones, free of charge.

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Originally Posted by redbluepill

Except when you work for a business you are agreeing to forfeit any ownership of what you create and get reimbursed through wages, benefits, etc. But we cannot trace back the creation of natural land to any single person or company. Therefore, land is different from capital and therefore must be treated differently.

Not all men are created equal? So I assume you disagree with the Declaration of Independence?

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What I meant is that all men are different (and start their lives in different situations in terms of wealth, etc). Notice I also said that all men have equal rights. RBP claimed that "others around you to have equal access to land. When you have a few people grabbing up all the land then you have a problem." which is obviously false.

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Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener

In other words, I have said something which not only can you not refute, not only can you not interface with the statement in an intelligent way,

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One cannot interface with it in an intelligent way because it is stupid, meaningless garbage. Which water is "that" water? "Owns" it how? Your statement was just a cretinous spew of meaningless, dishonest garbage.

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not only all that, which has been true for almost all your posts throughout this discussion,

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Lie.

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in this case you do not even have a talking point to regurgitate for it.

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There is nothing to talk about. Your statement was merely an attempt to deny a self-evident and indisputable fact of objective physical reality -- that people are naturally at liberty to use all that nature provided -- by spewing meaningless, dishonest garbage at it.

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Originally Posted by Fox McCloud

Roy, might I make a suggestion? Regardless of my position on whether I agree with you or not....your condescending, sarcastic, and snarky remarks are major turn-offs to your larger point(s), regardless of how valid (or not) they are. Because of this, might I recommend not being so insulting?

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Sorry, but I am not able to pretend that the fallacious, absurd and dishonest rationalizations for evil offered by those who serve evil merit any respect. Any objective reading of the "arguments" being made against LVT here will show that they are not only invariably fallacious but patently absurd and relentlessly dishonest. jascott is the only one who has not told stupid lies.

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Originally Posted by Steven Douglas

...
Ah! I knew it! Roy thought to himself. My natural liberty rights were being violated all along! Were it not for their violations of my natural liberty rights, I would be at liberty to use the very land they are on now. Well, they don't owe me much, because there is other available land around, but they do owe me, by Dog. Perpetually even.

And with that, Roy took a deep, fortifying breath, and set out toward the settlement, to sort out all the willing payers from the evil would be thieves who were oppressing him...

Poor Roy had stumbled onto a rare discovery - the unknown surviving descendants of the Donner Party, who lived by an entirely set of deprivation-based rules of their own. When the freshly provisioned camp broke for higher ground the next day, they decided to deed the land to Roy, including the hole they had dug for his bones, free of charge.

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:D

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Originally Posted by Dr.3D

Well, judging from history, technically, those who have the ability to defend the land from being taken from them own it.

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This is correct. Put up a fence and let everyone around you know it's yours by marking it and then defend it.

Things have gotten so twisted.

There is no such thing as a direct tax in this country. << READ THAT AGAIN TILL YOU GET IT!!

If you think congress has the power to directly tax any SOVEREIGN American, you are lacking in your education.

If you do not understand that each American is a sovereign, you need to read something about it. Like the Declaration of Independence, sheesh.

You cut away from the King, you are now free, you are now sovereign yourself. << WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT TO COMPREHEND?

If some government can DIRECTLY tax you, then you are BELOW THAT GOVERNMENT. You better check the label on your underwear!

And whoever thinks you need a national retail tax to run the government needs to look up how the government ran the first 100 years WITH A BUDGET SURPLUS!!

This is basic stuff that you should have leaned in high school.

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Originally Posted by eduardo89

I don't get it Roy, why exactly are you here?

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To fight evil.

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You only post in this thread,

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I have posted in others as well; but only a few interest me, and most haven't gone on very long. IMO the threads devoted to current electoral politics are pointless.

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nothing of which has to do with getting Ron Paul elected,

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I am certain that Ron Paul cannot be elected president. The system is just too corrupt, too much the private property of the corrupt propertied class. But Ron Paul and people who support Ron Paul are at least willing to talk about the real issues: the inherently corrupt monetary and banking systems; corporate subsidies, welfare and bailouts; the evil and insane "War on Drugs"; unjustifiable foreign military adventures; the unjust and economically destructive income tax system; etc.

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you obviously don't even believe in one of the most important priciples of the liberty movement, namely the right property (yes that includes owning land)

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No, it does not. Every great thinker on liberty has recognized the fact that property in land lacks justification. redbluepill provided a number of quotations to that effect.

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and all you do is insult people who don't buy into your ridiculous notion that land owning is theft.

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No, I demolish their fallacious, absurd and dishonest "arguments." You know this.

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So I repeat, why are you here? This thread has gone on for 99 pages...aren't you bored of owning us and destroying our nonsensical, immoral apologies for evil, greedy land owning parasites?

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I am wearied, beyond the rich resources of the English language to express, of the relentless dishonesty of apologists for privilege, injustice and evil.

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Originally Posted by Steven Douglas

Roy walked through miles and miles of forest, day after day, alone in the woods and the wilds, subsisting mostly on pine nuts and wild berries. Roy was accustomed to being alone, but that did not mean that he was not lonely. Roy was truly a sad, lonely, lonely soul.

Late one afternoon, while rooting for grubs in a felled and rotting tree, Roy spied a column of smoke rising from a small clearing off in the distance. Roy followed this until it he was close enough to see that he had indeed stumbled onto a small settlement.

Ah! I knew it! Roy thought to himself. My natural liberty rights were being violated all along! Were it not for their violations of my natural liberty rights, I would be at liberty to use the very land they are on now. Well, they don't owe me much, because there is other available land around, but they do owe me, by Dog. Perpetually even.

And with that, Roy took a deep, fortifying breath, and set out toward the settlement, to sort out all the willing payers from the evil would be thieves who were oppressing him.

As Roy addressed the several families of settlers as they sat around the fire, a kindly old woman ladled a nice hot bowl of soup for Roy from the large cast iron cauldron that was suspended over the fire.

Roy thanked the old woman, and patiently explained the deprivation he was now suffering because of the natural liberty rights these settlers had deprived him of, given that he would have been at liberty to use this land if were it not for them. Everyone listened intently, politely - wide eyed even, and with rapt interest. Roy felt that he was making progress, and breathed an inner sigh. At last, he felt that he might be witnessing the seeds of a possible dawn of a non-oppressive utopia.

When Roy had finally finished saying his peace, there was silence in the camp. Finally, one of the settler children, a young boy of about 13 years of age with an inquisitive look on his face, approached Roy. In the boy's hand was a long piece of cloth, and in the bottom of that cloth a rock, which the boy brought full circle, with one deft move, into the center of Roy's forehead. This caused Roy to fall backward, unconscious, into the cauldron.

Poor Roy had stumbled onto a rare discovery - the unknown surviving descendants of the Donner Party, who lived by an entirely set of deprivation-based rules of their own. When the freshly provisioned camp broke for higher ground the next day, they decided to deed the land to Roy, including the hole they had dug for his bones, free of charge.

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Were you under an erroneous impression that you were making a meaningful contribution to anything?

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Originally Posted by Edu

This is correct. Put up a fence and let everyone around you know it's yours by marking it and then defend it.

Things have gotten so twisted.

There is no such thing as a direct tax in this country. << READ THAT AGAIN TILL YOU GET IT!!

If you think congress has the power to directly tax any SOVEREIGN American, you are lacking in your education.

If you do not understand that each American is a sovereign, you need to read something about it. Like the Declaration of Independence, sheesh.

You cut away from the King, you are now free, you are now sovereign yourself. << WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT TO COMPREHEND?

If some government can DIRECTLY tax you, then you are BELOW THAT GOVERNMENT. You better check the label on your underwear!

And whoever thinks you need a national retail tax to run the government needs to look up how the government ran the first 100 years WITH A BUDGET SURPLUS!!

This is basic stuff that you should have leaned in high school.

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If you really believe this, you haven't been paying attention. "Sovereign citizens" ceased to exist long ago.