I know why we are fighting "communism" - and it is not what you think.

Communism is bad, really. It is bad for the people that have to live in the country where the communism is in power. But, why do these countries chose communism?

In Russia, Lenin advocated Communism to protect the country from the exploitation from the capitalists that use credit-based monetary systems. This monetary system, allows great industrial countries with good growth to start exploiting other countries before it actually earns any money. For example, if I constantly do business with the banks, and if I raise my credit to the point where I can borrow millions, I can go to poor countries and buy their productive companies, energy, and other things, thus, eventually I would basically enslave those companies and those countries' resources to me and to my country.

Our system is hungry for exploitation of other countries. That's why we have always been against the communism, because communist countries don't allow foreign investment and exploitation. That's why Bush is running around the world and spreading democracy, so that we can exploit as many countries as possible.

In his book "Imperialism - the highest stage of capitalism", Lenin talks about how capitalists exploit poor nations.

So, ever since we have adopted a credit-based monetary system in 1913, the revolution came to Russia few years later to protect it from exploitation from our country.

When the Soviet Union economy was collapsing from Reagan's economic pressures/attacks, Reagan came to Andropov and asked him to sign a partnership with the USA, but Andropov declined the offer, because it would allow US to completely exploit Russia.

That's why we were taught to believe that communists and despots are bad guys and that we must fight them around the world (because they don't allow us to exploit their.)

Why do we have to fight them anyway? Can't we just live our lives peacefully over here? No, because we are greedy and it would be awesome to get things from elsewhere for much cheaper. But how can we get it cheaper if the communism is all around us? We fight it and overthrow their governments.

But while we go around and promote democracy, we pass legislations over here that prevent foreigners from investing over here in case our economy falls and they try to buy up all our companies to enslave us.

I believe, that 1913, the year when we have adopted that damn credit-based monetary system is a year that changed the whole world.

Millions of people have been killed in the Soviet Union by the communists. Why did they kill them?? Was it because communists were ruthless killers???? No!!! They had to do it to prevent any movements of democracy in order to protect the people from the worse - The Federal Reserve Bank! People were uneducated. How could anyone explain to them that the Revolution and communism were really to protect the people from the exploitation of globalists.

While we just wake up to the fact that globalists are running the world, the foreign governments always knew that there is evil behind our government. They just had to take appropriate measures to prevent the evil from coming over there as their countries were not advanced as we were.

Boy now we have idiots advocating comunism. Please don't come here and poop in Ron's tent

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Meatwasp

Boy now we have idiots advocating comunism. Please don't come here and poop in Ron's tent

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I wasn't advocating communism. You are the idiot for not reading what I said. Read my post again. Sorry, but I'll have to repeat that you're the idiot.

I was advocating that we must get rid off the Fed and the credit based monetary system and bring back the gold standard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cageybee

Communism is bad, really. It is bad for the people that have to live in the country where the communism is in power. But, why do these countries chose communism?

In Russia, Lenin advocated Communism to protect the country from the exploitation from the capitalists that use credit-based monetary systems. This monetary system, allows great industrial countries with good growth to start exploiting other countries before it actually earns any money. For example, if I constantly do business with the banks, and if I raise my credit to the point where I can borrow millions, I can go to poor countries and buy their productive companies, energy, and other things, thus, eventually I would basically enslave those companies and those countries' resources to me and to my country.

Our system is hungry for exploitation of other countries. That's why we have always been against the communism, because communist countries don't allow foreign investment and exploitation. That's why Bush is running around the world and spreading democracy, so that we can exploit as many countries as possible.

In his book "Imperialism - the highest stage of capitalism", Lenin talks about how capitalists exploit poor nations.

So, ever since we have adopted a credit-based monetary system in 1913, the revolution came to Russia few years later to protect it from exploitation from our country.

When the Soviet Union economy was collapsing from Reagan's economic pressures/attacks, Reagan came to Andropov and asked him to sign a partnership with the USA, but Andropov declined the offer, because it would allow US to completely exploit Russia.

That's why we were taught to believe that communists and despots are bad guys and that we must fight them around the world (because they don't allow us to exploit their.)

Why do we have to fight them anyway? Can't we just live our lives peacefully over here? No, because we are greedy and it would be awesome to get things from elsewhere for much cheaper. But how can we get it cheaper if the communism is all around us? We fight it and overthrow their governments.

But while we go around and promote democracy, we pass legislations over here that prevent foreigners from investing over here in case our economy falls and they try to buy up all our companies to enslave us.

I believe, that 1913, the year when we have adopted that damn credit-based monetary system is a year that changed the whole world.

Millions of people have been killed in the Soviet Union by the communists. Why did they kill them?? Was it because communists were ruthless killers???? No!!! They had to do it to prevent any movements of democracy in order to protect the people from the worse - The Federal Reserve Bank! People were uneducated. How could anyone explain to them that the Revolution and communism were really to protect the people from the exploitation of globalists.

While we just wake up to the fact that globalists are running the world, the foreign governments always knew that there is evil behind our government. They just had to take appropriate measures to prevent the evil from coming over there as their countries were not advanced as we were.

---

This is absolutely idiotic.

First, the Communist Manifesto demands central banking:
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

That is exactly what the Federal Reserve is.

Yes, the communists were ruthless killers. Tens of millions died because of protection from the Federal Reserve, which is a worse evil? Please. The Fed never raped my aunt and kept her in a concentration camp.

yes "kill the bank "

kill the banks

I can understand some of your points but one evil doesn't justify another evil. My mother fled the bolsheviks and I hate any forms of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jglapski

This is absolutely idiotic.

First, the Communist Manifesto demands central banking:
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

That is exactly what the Federal Reserve is.

Yes, the communists were ruthless killers. Tens of millions died because of protection from the Federal Reserve, which is a worse evil? Please. The Fed never raped my aunt and kept her in a concentration camp.

---

Read Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism

Capitalism was viewed by undeveloped nations as a major threat, especially the one with a credit-based monetary system.

And I did not say that communism was good. I did say it was bad. I just think that in order to fight our system, they thought that communism was the best counter measure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Meatwasp

I can understand some of your points but one evil doesn't justify another evil. My mother fled the bolsheviks and I hate any forms of it.

---

agree, communism is bad. i did not say it was good. i did say it was bad. but, they needed to implement counter-measures to fight our system that naturally wanted to exploit their countries and they thought that communism is the best way, because it does not allow foreign investments and exploitation. they thought that in order to make it happen, they needed to centralize the powers and close the democracy movements because people were uneducated and were easy targets for propaganda that was directed toward bringing down of the communism. they figured that they knew the problem and knew how to fight it. anyone that was against them was viewed as a traitor, thus they have killed millions to make sure that uneducated people did not raise the democracy, because democracy would enslave the whole country.

You do not understand what drives communism.

Communism is a tool of the same elite who own the Fed. The money that financed the Bolshevik Revolution came from Wall Street. Jacob Schiff, who was a prodigy of the Rothschilds and head of the banking firm Kuhn, Loeb, & Co., bragged on his death bed that he spent $20 million to overthrow the Czar. His grandson stated this as well. The Czar was the last holdout in a major power who would not allow the criminal syndicate that owns the Fed and the Central Banks of Europe, etc. to establish a central bank in Russia. He had to be overthrown. Lenin & Trotsky took $20M in gold from New York to Russia via Canada & Germany. The Canadian Government held them, but the US government pressured them to let them go. It's the ultimate monopoly, where the people have no rights at all, and the elite are absolute dictators. The Cold War was as much of a scam as the War on Terror and served no other purpose except to grow the military-indurstrial complex and scare the world into submission. Al Qaeda is just the next bogeyman to replace the Soviets.

The quotes below tell a little story:

When asked by a woman while he was leaving the Constitutional Convention what kind of government they had given us - 'A Republic, if you can keep it.' - Benjamin Franklin


'The republican is the only form of government which is not eternally at open or secret war with the rights of mankind.' - Thomas Jefferson


“We are a Republican Government. Real liberty is never found in despotism or in the extremes of Democracy.” - Alexander Hamilton


'[the framers of the Constitution] intended our government should be a republic, which differs more widely from a democracy than a democracy from a despotism.” - Congressman Fisher Ames


“The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a republican form of government.” - from the US Constitutitution


'I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of America. And to the Republic, for which it stands.' - from the Pledge of Allegiance


“The honest and serious student of American history will recall that our Founding Fathers managed to write both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution without using the term ‘democracy’ even once. No part of any of the existing state Constitutions contains any reference to the word. [The men] who were most influential in the institution and formulation of our government refer to ‘democracy’ only to distinguish it sharply from the republican form of our American Constitutional system.” - Clarence Manion - Dean of Notre Dame Law School 1950's


“Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos,” - John Marshall - US Supreme Court Chief Justice


'In questions of power then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.' - Thomas Jefferson


'Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy.' - Ron Paul

'Republics decline into democracies and democracies degenerate into despotisms.' - Aristotle

'Democracy - A government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of “direct expression.” Results in mobocracy. Attitude toward property is communistic — negating property rights. Attitude of the law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Results in demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy. [the framers of the Constitution] made a very marked distinction between a republic and a democracy … and said repeatedly and emphatically that they had formed a republic.” - US Army Training Manual 1928


“Because the United States is a democracy, the majority of the people decide how our Government will be organized and run....” - US Army Training Manual 1952


“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” – Thomas Jefferson


“Democracy, in its best state, is but the politics of Bedlam; while kept chained, its thoughts are frantic, but when it breaks loose, it kills the keeper, fires the building, and perishes.” - Fisher Ames


“Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people.” – Oscar Wilde


“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There was never a democracy that did not commit suicide.” – John Adams


“The one prevailing evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections.” - Lord Acton


“It has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity.” - Alexander Hamilton


“Democracies have been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.” - James Madison


“Democracy gives every man the right to be his own oppressor.” - James Russell Lowell


“Democracy passes into despotism.” – Plato


“Tyranny naturally arises out of democracy.” – Plato


'Democracy is more cruel than wars or tyrants.' - Seneca


“Democracy becomes a government of bullies tempered by editors.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson


“to provide a cure for the evils under which the United States labored; that in tracing these evils to their origin every man had found it in the turbulence and trials of democracy....” - Edmund Randolph - participant in Contstitutional Convention


“I have long been convinced that institutions purely democratic must, sooner or later, destroy liberty or civilization, or both.” - Thomas Babington Macaulay


'A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.' - Alexander Tyler


'The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy,from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage.' - Alexander Tyler


“You can never have a revolution in order to establish a democracy. You must have a democracy in order to have a revolution.” - G.K. Chesterton

“Democracy is the road to socialism” – Karl Marx


“The first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class, to win the battle of democracy.” - Karl Marx

'Democracy is indispensable to socialism.' - Vladimir Lenin

'The goal of socialism is communism.' - Vladimir Lenin


“Taken as a whole, the Chinese revolutionary movement led by the Communist Party embraces the two stages, i.e., the democratic and the socialist revolutions, which are essentially different revolutionary processes, and the second process can be carried through only after the first has been completed. The democratic revolution is the necessary preparation for the socialist revolution, and the socialist revolution is the inevitable sequel to the democratic revolution. The ultimate aim for which all communists strive is to bring about a socialist and communist society.” - Mao Tse-tung


'Whatever the price of the Chinese Revolution, it has obviously succeeded not only in producing more efficient and dedicated administration, but also in fostering high morale and community of purpose. The social experiment in China under Chairman Mao's leadership is one of the most important and successful in human history.' - David Rockefeller


“...to make the world safe for democracy” - Woodrow Wilson


“[America] must be the great arsenal of democracy” - Franklin D. Roosevelt


'The experience of democracy is like the experience of life itself-always changing, infinite in its variety, sometimes turbulent and all the more valuable for having been tested by adversity.' - Jimmy Carter


'Democracy is worth dying for, because it's the most deeply honorable form of government ever devised by man.' - Ronald Reagan

'Great nations of the world are moving toward democracy.' - George Bush Sr.


'We must fortify African democracy and peace by launching Radio Democracy for Africa, supporting the transition to democracy now beginning to take place in Nigeria. We must continue to deepen our ties to the Americas and the Caribbean, our common work to educate children, fight drugs, strengthen democracy, and increase trade. And I'd like to say to the Senate, I hope you will say yes to a stronger American democracy in the year 2000.' - Bill Clinton

'As the 20th century ended, there were around 120 democracies in the world -- and I can assure you more are on the way.' - George W. Bush

'It is no accident that the rise of so many democracies took place in a time when the world's most influential nation was itself a democracy.' - George W. Bush

'We must help the reformers of the Middle East as they work for freedom, and strive to build a community of peaceful, democratic nations.' - George W. Bush

'Our aim is a democratic peace.' - George W. Bush

“The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism.” – Karl Marx

'I think the important thing is to realize that the establishment of a democracy is sometimes a messy thing and it takes time. Yeah, we've been at it 240 years.' - Mike Huckabee

'Now the question is, now that we are there, what should we do in the best interest of the U.S., not only from a standpoint of the necessity of some stable democracy in the Middle East....' - Mike Huckabee

“That does not mean we won't experience the tragedy of the loss of some American lives. We will have an opportunity to instill a democracy in Iraq which will be an example and perhaps force other nations in that region to move in the same direction.” - John McCain

“But we have a war of ideals and ideas, and that is to sell democracy...' - John McCain

'There cannot be true democracy unless all citizens are able to participate fully in the lives of their country.' - Hillary Clinton

'We are here to advance the cause of women and to advance the cause of democracy and to make it absolutely clear that the two are inseparable.' - Hillary Clinton

'I would say to the new leadership the American people are ready to meet you if you move forward toward the path of democracy.' - Hillary Clinton

'We should be more modest in our belief that we can impose democracy on a country through military force.' - Barack Obama

'This doesn’t mean abandoning our values and ideals; wherever we can, it’s in our interest to help foster democracy through the diplomatic and economic resources at our disposal.' - Barack Obama


'The new world order that is in the making must focus on the creation of a world of democracy, peace and prosperity for all.' - Nelson Mandela


“In October 1917 we parted with the Old World, rejecting it once and for all. We are moving toward a new world, the world of Communism. We shall never turn off that road.' – Mikhail Gorbachev

'I am a Communist, a convinced Communist! For some that may be a fantasy. But to me it is my main goal.' - Mikhail Gorbachev


“according to Lenin, socialism and democracy are indivisible.... The essence of perestroika lies in the fact that it unites socialism with democracy and revives the Leninist concept of socialist construction both in theory and in practice. We want more socialism and, therefore, more democracy.” - Mikhail Gorbachev


'Every part of our program of perestroika -- and the program as a whole, for that matter -- is fully based on the principle of more socialism and more democracy.' – Mikhail Gorbachev


'There is no greater advocate of perestroika than the president of the United States.' – George Bush Sr.


'The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.' - Norman Thomas, former U.S. Socialist Presidential Candidate

'If one understands that socialism is not a share-the-wealth program, but is in reality a method to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of super-rich men promoting socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead, it becomes logical, even the perfect tool of power-seeking megalomaniacs. Communism, or more accurately, socialism, is not a movement of the downtrodden masses, but of the economic elite.' - Gary Allen

'The state does not function as we desired. A man is at the wheel and seems to lead it, but the car does not drive in the desired direction. It moves as another force wishes.' – Vladimir Lenin

'Power from any source tends to create an appetite for additional power. It was almost inevitable that the super-rich would one day aspire to control not only their own wealth, but the wealth of the whole world. To achieve this, they were perfectly willing to feed the ambitions of the power-hungry political conspirators who were committed to the overthrow of all existing governments and the establishment of a central worldwide dictatorship.' - W. Cleon Skousen

'Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.' - Lord Acton


'But it became clear as time went on that in Mr. Bush's mind the New World Order was founded on a convergence of goals and interests between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, so strong and permanent that they would work as a team through the U.N. Security Council.' - A. M. Rosenthal

'The American Communists worked energetically and tirelessly to lay the foundations for the United Nations, which we were sure would come into existence.' - Earl Brower - former President of Communist Party USA


'The age of nations must end. The governments of nations have decided to order their separate sovereignties into one government to which they will surrender their arms.' - U.N. World Constitution

'The United Nations is the greatest fraud in history. It's purpose is to destroy the United States.' - Congressman John E. Rankin


'It is the sacred principles enshrined in the United Nations charter to which the American people will henceforth pledge their allegiance.' - George Bush Sr.

"Communism is a tool of the same elite who own the Fed. The money that financed the Bolshevik Revolution came from Wall Street. Jacob Schiff, who was a prodigy of the Rothschilds, bragged on his death bed that he spent $20 million to overthrow the Czar. His grandson stated this as well. The Czar was the last holdout in a major power who would not allow the criminal syndicate that owns the Fed and the Central Banks of Europe, etc. to establish a central bank in Russia. He had to be overthrown. Lenin & Trotsky took $20M in gold from New York to Russia via Canada & Germany. The Canadian Government held them, but the US government pressured them to let them go. It's the ultimate monopoly, where the people have no rights at all, and the elite are absolute dictators. The Cold War was as much of a scam as the War on Terror and served no other purpose except to grow the military-indurstrial complex and scare the world into submission. Al Qaeda is just the next bogeyman to replace the Soviets."

While I agree that Al Qaeda is a bogeyman that doesn't exist, I don't agree with the rest of the stuff above.

I totally believe in liberty and the system that was created by the founding fathers of this country. Our country was great until 1913.

Lenin was never a man of the rich. The rich of Russia actually hated him and in his book he actually talks about a GLOBAL revolution. The revolution would start with Russia and continue throughout the world to overtake the whole world to include capitalist countries that like to exploit poor countries and poor people. There is no way that rich of America could finance him because his ideas were a direct threat to them. Read his book to understand. He wanted for the whole world to have the revolution against the rich and his idea was to start in Russia and continue with closest countries and so forth as a chain reaction. He viewed capitalists as those that want to exploit his country and he wrote a book called "Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism"

below are the title of chapters of the book:

CONCENTRATION OF PRODUCTION AND MONOPOLIES
BANKS AND THEIR NEW ROLE
FINANCE CAPITAL AND THE FINANCIAL OLIGARCHY
EXPORT OF CAPITAL
DIVISION OF THE WORLD AMONG CAPITALIST ASSOCIATIONS
DIVISION OF THE WORLD AMONG THE GREAT POWERS
IMPERIALISM AS A SPECIAL STAGE OF CAPITALISM
PARASITISM AND DECAY OF CAPITALISM
CRITIQUE OF IMPERIALISM
THE PLACE OF IMPERIALISM IN HISTORY

As you see, he hated capitalists for "parasitism", "loss/export of capital", "banks", etc.

The fact that he was financed by the rich is a conspiracy theory.

He was a nationalist and a statesman that wanted to make sure that no foreigners would exploit Russia and called for a revolution to bring communism as he viewed it necessary and the best counter-measure against capitalists. His main concern was capitalists employing credit-based systems and world currency as a means to exploit other nations.

And believe it or not, that's what we've been doing to the world since 1913.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cageybee

"Communism is a tool of the same elite who own the Fed. The money that financed the Bolshevik Revolution came from Wall Street. Jacob Schiff, who was a prodigy of the Rothschilds, bragged on his death bed that he spent $20 million to overthrow the Czar. His grandson stated this as well. The Czar was the last holdout in a major power who would not allow the criminal syndicate that owns the Fed and the Central Banks of Europe, etc. to establish a central bank in Russia. He had to be overthrown. Lenin & Trotsky took $20M in gold from New York to Russia via Canada & Germany. The Canadian Government held them, but the US government pressured them to let them go. It's the ultimate monopoly, where the people have no rights at all, and the elite are absolute dictators. The Cold War was as much of a scam as the War on Terror and served no other purpose except to grow the military-indurstrial complex and scare the world into submission. Al Qaeda is just the next bogeyman to replace the Soviets."

While I agree that Al Qaeda is a bogeyman that doesn't exist, I don't agree with the rest of the stuff above.

I totally believe in liberty and the system that was created by the founding fathers of this country. Our country was great until 1913.

Lenin was never a man of the rich. The rich of Russia actually hated him and in his book he actually talks about a GLOBAL revolution. The revolution would start with Russia and continue throughout the world to overtake the whole world to include capitalist countries that like to exploit poor countries and poor people. There is no way that rich of America could finance him because his ideas were a direct threat to them. Read his book to understand. He wanted for the whole world to have the revolution against the rich and his idea was to start in Russia and continue with closest countries and so forth as a chain reaction. He viewed capitalists as those that want to exploit his country and he wrote a book called "Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism"

below are the title of chapters of the book:

CONCENTRATION OF PRODUCTION AND MONOPOLIES
BANKS AND THEIR NEW ROLE
FINANCE CAPITAL AND THE FINANCIAL OLIGARCHY
EXPORT OF CAPITAL
DIVISION OF THE WORLD AMONG CAPITALIST ASSOCIATIONS
DIVISION OF THE WORLD AMONG THE GREAT POWERS
IMPERIALISM AS A SPECIAL STAGE OF CAPITALISM
PARASITISM AND DECAY OF CAPITALISM
CRITIQUE OF IMPERIALISM
THE PLACE OF IMPERIALISM IN HISTORY

As you see, he hated capitalists for "parasitism", "loss/export of capital", "banks", etc.

The fact that he was financed by the rich is a conspiracy theory.

He was a nationalist and a statesman that wanted to make sure that no foreigners would exploit Russia and called for a revolution to bring communism as he viewed it necessary and the best counter-measure against capitalists. His main concern was capitalists employing credit-based systems and world currency as a means to exploit other nations.

And believe it or not, that's what we've been doing to the world since 1913.

---

Lenin never owned the central bank of Russia. It was and is owned by the people who own the Fed. Lenin thought he was in charge, but he didn't understand that he wasn't. As Mayer Amschel Rothschild said, 'Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws.' It's the owners of the central bank in Russia who are in charge, same as here. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's the way things are. Communism is the ultimate tool of the elite. What makes it so dangerous is that through control of the media it convinces the people that it's all about the people. Lenin didn't give a rat's ass about the people. It's about silencing all political and economic opposition with a boot and the business end of a rifle. It's rule by the super rich, who write their own rules. The Legitimate Mafia.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cageybee

Read Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism

Capitalism was viewed by undeveloped nations as a major threat, especially the one with a credit-based monetary system.

And I did not say that communism was good. I did say it was bad. I just think that in order to fight our system, they thought that communism was the best counter measure.

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Why should I read some idiotic work by some mass murderer like Lenin? The man was a fucking idiot.

If you're on here, you should be familiar with Austrian economists, who completely decimated the Marxian viewpoint, specifically the value theory of labor.

For a communist, you have to be familiar that central banking is a tenet of socialism. It's completely unfortunate that capitalism has been infected by all the viruses of socialism, especially central banking. Why the hell are you associating that with capitalism?

Lenin not a friend of the rich? People who murder the rich tend not to be their friends. Stalin wasn't a friend of the rich either.

Quote:

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His main concern was capitalists employing credit-based systems and world currency as a means to exploit other nations.

And believe it or not, that's what we've been doing to the world since 1913.

---

I agree with this. WW1 is a perfect example of the whole shebang: oil, et al. The central bank is the absolute worst thing for human society. It has quite potentially created a bubble of human population and food. What happens when that bursts??!! :eek: Kill the banks: I love your name and sentiment.

Quote:

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There is no way that rich of America could finance [Lenin] because his ideas were a direct threat to them

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I disagree with this. Communism is nothing but another oligarchy. It's not democratic rule or any such BS, it's just an elite ruling class which controls ALL capital, rather than allowing the average person at least a CHANCE at controlling some capital. Those with the money may well have wished to be in on this oligarchy. (and believe me, the philosophical realm at the time made the world ripe with wealthy folk who believed this was the best way to go...for the "good of the dumb masses" and their selves).

Quote:

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The fact that he was financed by the rich is a conspiracy theory.

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Conspiracy theories suck, because they dilute the chance at knowing the truth, because everyone is constantly paranoid. Then again, revisionist history makes it somewhat necessary... I don't know whether the wealthy financing is true or not, but it potentially makes some sense, as I said above.

I don't doubt that Lenin fully understood the importance of capital, much as Marx did (though they both were clueless on the nature of it... it depends on the marketplace for pricing and allocation). He was also likely aware of the ability of the central bank to gain control of the economy, so perhaps he was afraid of it to an extent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dirknb@hotmail.com

Lenin never owned the central bank of Russia. It was and is owned by the people who own the Fed. Lenin thought he was in charge, but he didn't understand that he wasn't. As Mayer Amschel Rothschild said, 'Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws.' It's the owners of the central bank in Russia who are in charge, same as here. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's the way things are. Communism is the ultimate tool of the elite. What makes it so dangerous is that through control of the media it convinces the people that it's all about the people. Lenin didn't give a rat's ass about the people. It's about silencing all political and economic opposition with a boot and the business end of a rifle. It's rule by the super rich, who write their own rules. The Legitimate Mafia.

---

I believe you are referring to despotism and not communism. In communism, all capital belongs to the state and there can't be any super rich. In communism, the only treasure that the leaders of the party have is the power of control.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jglapski

Lenin not a friend of the rich? People who murder the rich tend not to be their friends. Stalin wasn't a friend of the rich either.

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Stalin wasn't rich either - he just had lots of powers.
Rich were not allowed in those days. All the capital belonged to the state. Those were the rules of the game.

If the "Capitalist" banker rulers of this country gave a shit about the threat of communism, they would never have allowed the US to join the UN to begin with. The UN is totally a communist institution, and the owners of the Fed are the people who backed its creation. John Rockefeller donated the land for the headquarters in New York.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cageybee

Stalin wasn't rich either - he just had lots of powers.
Rich were not allowed in those days. All the capital belonged to the state. Those were the rules of the game.

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Bullshit. All of the capital was owned by those who owned the state. Lenin, Stalin, etc. were front-men. Communism is nothing more than a monopoly with a puppet government.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kyleAF

Communism is nothing but another oligarchy.

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kyle, you are referring to despotism and not communism. in communism all the capital belongs to the state.

there no one, even the head of the state can't be caught with anything too fancy, because that would be immediate grounds for revolution.

Due to the fact that everyone in the leadership would love to be the leader of the state, the moment that the leader becomes rich, his own people would sell him out and raise the whole country against the leader. no possibility for the rich in communism whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by cageybee

kyle, you are referring to despotism and not communism. in communism all the capital belongs to the state.

there no one, even the head of the state can't be caught with anything too fancy, because that would be immediate grounds for revolution.

Due to the fact that everyone in the leadership would love to be the leader of the state, the moment that the leader becomes rich, his own people would sell him out and raise the whole country against the leader. no possibility for the rich in communism whatsoever.

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Nope. The people just get fucked. The same ruling elite stay in power no matter what. If you think there were no rich people in the Soviet Union or China you are sadly mistaken.

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Originally Posted by dirknb@hotmail.com

Bullshit. All of the capital was owned by those who owned the state. Lenin, Stalin, etc. were front-men. Communism is nothing more than a monopoly with a puppet government.

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no, if lenin or any political leader would be caught by anyone within the government with any kind of massive capital - they would sell them out immediately and there would be an uprising immediately. the Chekists (KGB) they new about everything about everyone in the country, including Lenin. If Lenin was full of shit, they would sell him out right then to gain more power.

Communism is not a tool of the rich. You are talking about despotism.

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Originally Posted by dirknb@hotmail.com

Nope. The people just get fucked. The same ruling elite stay in power no matter what. If you think there were no rich people in the Soviet Union or China you are sadly mistaken.

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Origianally, during the times of Lenin, Stalin, and Khrushev there were no rich people in Russia. Later, during Brezhnev's time, the corruption started growing and some were stealing here and there, but still there were no super rich.

Trust me, KGB knew all affairs about everyone in powers. If there were any super rich in Russia - they would be caught immediately, because that was considered as highest treason and they would be executed.

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Originally Posted by cageybee

no, if lenin or any political leader would be caught by anyone within the government with any kind of massive capital - they would sell them out immediately and there would be an uprising immediately. the Chekists (KGB) they new about everything about everyone in the country, including Lenin. If Lenin was full of shit, they would sell him out right then to gain more power.

Communism is not a tool of the rich. You are talking about despotism.

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Call it what you want. It works the same way. The KGB was a tool of the elite, the same way as the CIA is a tool of the elite here. It's the same elite. The central banks in the communist countries are the same as the one here. They are owned by the same elite.

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Originally Posted by dirknb@hotmail.com

Call it what you want. It works the same way. The KGB was a tool of the elite, the same way as the CIA is a tool of the elite here. It's the same elite. The central banks in the communist countries are the same as the one here. They are owned by the same elite.

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the elite of the Soviet Union were political leaders who made slightly more money than everyone else. KGB was a tool of the political party, but the same political party was scared of KGB because KGB knew all their secrets. still, I say there were no super rich - just people with power.

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Originally Posted by cageybee

the elite of the Soviet Union were political leaders who made slightly more money than everyone else. KGB was a tool of the political party, but the same political party was scared of KGB because KGB knew all their secrets. still, I say there were no super rich - just people with power.

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What do you think wealth is??? Money?! Money is nothing except a means to power*... Power is the ultimate wealth, as you control everything. Why do you think those with billions of dollars are rarely satisfied to just sit back and retire? (let's ignore the hard work ethic that billionaires--of the past anyway--often had)

*of course money is necessary in an economy that goes beyond barter, and is therefore not useless, but that's beside my point here

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Originally Posted by cageybee

Millions of people have been killed in the Soviet Union by the communists. Why did they kill them?? Was it because communists were ruthless killers???? No!!! They had to do it to prevent any movements of democracy in order to protect the people from the worse - The Federal Reserve Bank! People were uneducated. How could anyone explain to them that the Revolution and communism were really to protect the people from the exploitation of globalists.

While we just wake up to the fact that globalists are running the world, the foreign governments always knew that there is evil behind our government. They just had to take appropriate measures to prevent the evil from coming over there as their countries were not advanced as we were.

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Delusional much?
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by kyleAF

What do you think wealth is??? Money?! Money is nothing except a means to power*... Power is the ultimate wealth, as you control everything. Why do you think those with billions of dollars are rarely satisfied to just sit back and retire? (let's ignore the hard work ethic that billionaires--of the past anyway--often had)

*of course money is necessary in an economy that goes beyond barter, and is therefore not useless, but that's beside my point here

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while it is true that power is the ultimate wealth, but there were no leaders that were enjoying fancy things while everyone had it hard. of course the leaders needed power - how else they supposed to rule?? but you are missing the point that in communism, all the capital belongs to the state and not to the leaders. when i say the state, i say the country, the nation, the people, and not to those that ruled the country. they ruled the country for the people. but when the people started messing with the political party - they got in trouble, because the majority of people wanted things the way they were.

you are still thinking about despotism, where the top owns everything and people own nothing. that's what the elite of our country (NWO) want to do. they want to take away our liberties, close our society, take away our properties, and rule the world with their despot (like a pharaoh) at the top.

cageybee, you remind me of someone I "debate" with at another forum....... do you know where he gets all of his commie Info from? College Professors, that have lived in College since they themselves were students and now they sell Communism as a good thing, you know, for the people. The sick thing is, they sell it in such a goody good fairytale way that it makes me sick, it's all very after the fact story telling. What you need to look up is, Royalty, the overthrow.... who planned it, what were their goals? It's funny, you seem to see and believe that the Federal Reserve is really in power here, but, you refuse to believe that "they" were in power back then over there....... so........ you believe in one "conspiracy theory", but, not the other one? Let's put it this way, they got in extra deep here in 1913, well, they accomplished that goal........ guess who was next on there list? 1917!

What you read in common history books is a joke.

You never know.....



"By 1880, the Vatican-Rockefeller-Standard Oil cartel completely dominated the domestic and foreign markets for kerosene. All competition was ruthlessly crushed by this juggernaut. Then a rival appeared in the form of Russian oil. A Swede named Robert Nobel built a refinery in BAKU on the Caspian sea. He began to produce cheaper and better oil but was shut out of European and world markets by Standard Oil.

Rapid growth in Russian oil production had been achieved despite political upheaval that had enveloped the country since the turn of the century, much of which had been centered in the country’s oil capital, BAKU. Strikes by oil workers had been a regular feature of the protests against the Tsar in 1903 and 1904, and were a major factor in the 1905 revolution, in which the former Josef Dzhugashvili played a significant, anti-Tsarist role. As a result of his revolutionary activity he fostered in BAKU at that time, Dzhugashvili was exiled to Siberia. Later, he would become better known as Josef Stalin."

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Originally Posted by cageybee

while it is true that power is the ultimate wealth, but there were no leaders that were enjoying fancy things while everyone had it hard. of course the leaders needed power - how else they supposed to rule?? but you are missing the point that in communism, all the capital belongs to the state and not to the leaders. when i say the state, i say the country, the nation, the people, and not to those that ruled the country. they ruled the country for the people. but when the people started messing with the political party - they got in trouble, because the majority of people wanted things the way they were.

you are still thinking about despotism, where the top owns everything and people own nothing. that's what the elite of our country (NWO) want to do. they want to take away our liberties, close our society, take away our properties, and rule the world with their despot (like a pharaoh) at the top.

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You are dangerously delusional. No the leaders of the soviet union were all just working hard for The Workers - they were enjoying no luxury themselves. I suggest you read something like GULAG Archipelago

who dragged this communist crap in here?

I wonder if people like you are honestly delusional about the existence of the ruling elite in communism - or if you actually see yourself as part of the ruling elite. If its the second I do suggest you study the GULAG for it was you that was the first to be executed.

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Originally Posted by Meatwasp

Boy now we have idiots advocating comunism. Please don't come here and poop in Ron's tent

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ROFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!:D