I sure wish there were some RP supporters around where I live......alas....
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I sure wish there were some RP supporters around where I live......alas....
Nope. Flat wrong. HK was and remains an island of clean government with only a single rival in all of East Asia: Singapore -- where the government not coincidentally aggressively nationalized land in the 1960s and now owns 70% of it. HK only became corrupt in the 50s, 60s and 70s because of the huge influx of refugees from the PRC, many of whom were already corrupt and found life too risky in the PRC, especially with the Cultural Revolution going on. And HK was also only corrupt by comparison with the standards of the UK, which has been one of the least corrupt countries in the world for centuries.
But what has public ownership of land wrought in HK since then? Why, looka here: YOUR OWN SOURCE confirms that PUBLIC OWNERSHIP OF LAND has DEFEATED corruption, even despite the handover to the PRC in 1997:
Transparency International now ranks Hong Kong among the least corrupt places in the world, ahead of countries like the United Kingdom, Japan, and the United States.
This is an almost miraculous achievement against corruption, and it destroys you comprehensively, conclusively, utterly and permanently. Every time you try to slag LVT, you only prove you have to be grotesquely dishonest to do it.
Flat wrong.Quote:
After this, this police and government made every attempt to overthrow the ICAC, and eventually did.
Hong Kong proves you wrong, so you have to lie about it. Simple.Quote:
They required British intervention to even begin to get reforms going (the head of the ICAC answered to the British Prime Minister). (1)
Daydreams of a "successful" LVT regime (if the end goal is true justice and maximum freedom) will always be just daydreams.
But they should continue to pocket its publicly created value, paid for by other people's taxes? Uh-huh.
Somehow, I kinda figured it'd be something like that...
As land and capital are legally property, that leaves taxes on... labor. What a shocker!Quote:
Abolish ALL property taxes, that includes LVT.
Rarely has the argument for greed, privilege and injustice been articulated so baldly.
As air is just a different kind of land (another natural resource men have a right to use, and need to use in order to live) I would advocate an air value tax... if air had any market value. Whereas if greedy, evil filth started privatizing the air, found a way to "homestead" it and fence it off, started charging you rent for air to breathe, then you would feel blessed by the joys of capitalism!Quote:
Either that or be philosophically consistent and advocate an AVT (air value tax).
Now, don't you feel as stupid as a bag of hammers?
You mean as opposed to finding a way to "homestead" it, fence it ALL off on behalf of the state, which then forever charged you rent for air to breathe, then you would feel blessed by the joys of communism!
Now, don't you feel as stupid as a bag of all hammers in existence?
Air is super abundant and its value is 0. Only air space is finite. Don't want a claim on airspace? Good luck defending yourself when foreigners decide to use your airspace to drop bombs on you.
You don't want a claim on the air where you live? Okay, seal it off and I'll make sure to send all my various air pollution your way, and throw in some mustard gas for good measure. Enjoy your air!
If you were the stupidest person on earth, you still would not be so stupid that you wouldn't know:
1) Government in fact ALREADY DOES administer use of air so that the rights of all to breathe it are secured, and
2) Not being evil, greedy filth as private airlords would indisputably be, it in fact doesn't charge anyone any rent for air to breathe.
So, stupidity cannot be the cause of your absurd, fallacious and grotesque nonsense. Only dishonesty can produce such completely outrageous garbage.
Don't you understand what it means when I always prove your "arguments" are stupid, fallacious, absurd, dishonest, and stupid?
No, right about now I am feeling infinitely more intelligent, as well as infinitely more knowledgeable and honest, than you.Quote:
Now, don't you feel as stupid as a bag of all hammers in existence?
Airspace is land. So I do want a claim on it: the liberty right to use it.
What are you blathering about?Quote:
Good luck defending yourself when foreigners decide to use your airspace to drop bombs on you.
Oh, learn how to read. Or think. I already have a claim on it: my rights to life and liberty.Quote:
You don't want a claim on the air where you live?
Try not to confess your evil quite so blatantly.Quote:
Okay, seal it off and I'll make sure to send all my various air pollution your way, and throw in some mustard gas for good measure. Enjoy your air!
1) Government does not "administer use of air". That's silliness on your part, like a Saint Bernard bitch who winces from a flea bite and you, the chihuahua on the stool that is humping her from behind, says, "Oh, I'm sorry, did I hurt you honey?" Government attempts to govern and regulate localized air usage (factories, autos, etc.,), but it does not, and cannot, collectivize the air, nor does it "administer use of air". That's upside down and backwards crank talk right there.
2) Merely saying thing like, "...evil, greedy filth...private...stupidity...absurd, fallacious and grotesque nonsense...dishonesty...completely outrageous garbage...stupid, fallacious, absurd, dishonest, and stupid..." is evidence to me of nausea and stomach pains on your part, but it does not make you "...infinitely more intelligent, as well as infinitely more knowledgeable and honest..." Then again, you didn't claim that, did you? You said it had you ""right now feeling" that way. I don't think that's true, but it is at least consistent with all your prior delusions of intelligence and honesty.
It most certainly and indisputably does, stop lying.
It is obvious fact, and you are just lying.Quote:
That's silliness on your part,
Nice attempt to change the subject.Quote:
Government attempts to govern and regulate localized air usage (factories, autos, etc.,), but it does not, and cannot, collectivize the air,
You are indisputably wrong. As usual. EPA standards, auto emission standards, carbon taxes, acid rain sulfur limits, etc. are all manifestations of government administration of use of air.Quote:
nor does it "administer use of air".
That's stupid, empty garbage right there.Quote:
That's upside down and backwards crank talk right there.
Here's more proof just how wrong you always have to be when you stupidly and dishonestly slag LVT:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-39...m-private-jail
Table of Contents
Directory to what I feel were my most substantive contributions in this thread.
Some Criticism:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3577112
What is Property?:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3585601
A Right is a Boundary:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3585708
Use and control is what ownership *is*:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3782367
LVT Makes the State the Land-Owner:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3908042
Continued:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3913177
Continued:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4021701
Regarding land ownership being inherently monopolistic, due to non-homogeneity of land:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3585760
And more about land being homogeneous/heterogenous, and also about the supply of land being fixed:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3630122
And more:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3632718
And more:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3634017
And more:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3639251
Explaining yet again, this time with ASCII graphics, that the transfer of money does not negate injustice:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3587263
Explaining it yet again, this time with song:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3588236
Does everyone have a rightful claim to the universe, or does no one:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...40#post3621340
Continued:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...25#post3623925
Continued:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3627987
Regarding the land-owner's productive function as ultimate decision-maker:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3676602
Land-owner as ultimate decision-maker -- explaining the concept of delegation:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3695459
Mr. L. thinks the owners of car rental businesses do not control nor use their cars:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3790254
So I explain it again:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3790976
Renting just is not that bad:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3685284
Rothbardianism is so awesome, even the crazy Georgists can have their way under it and we can all live in harmony:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3693178
A couple fundamental disagreements between Georgists and us (Or, A Last Hurrah at Attempting to Communicate With a Turing Program):
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3694703
Will land will be used better if there is a Land Value Tax? (Bringing in North Dakota to the discussion):
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3696912
Further elaboration on the Double-Whammy:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3753562
Land-owners also are productive by lowering society's average time preference; If LVT, why not CVT?:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3698271
Grab-bag (No homesteading = no property; power to the state to smash land-owners will back-fire; more taxed =/= more efficient):
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3718319
Again Concerning Public Choice and Plans Back-firing:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4007650
More Public Choice Common Sense vs. Savior-State Naivety:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...81#post4105181
Grab-bag (How does the newborn get a right rather than the homesteader; Homesteading is a transformation, and the result is a product of labor; wild animals as land):
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3676489
Grab-bag (more detail on production is transformation using parking lot and chainsaw; feudalism rocks; just who's initiating force?; which is it, everyone or no one?):
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3734355
CVT and LVT parallels (Factory vs. Land parallels; abandoned products of labor don't disappear):
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3741002
Land Taxation causes economic destruction:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3741684
Regarding whether rationing resources is murder:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3586982
Property Rights: the Great Problem Solver:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3742768
Continued: The State: the Great Destroyer:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3745338
Grab-bag to MattButler:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3744412
The *only* thing that's holy, the *only* thing that's land, is locations on the Earth's surface:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3748437
You Could Own a Whole Planet, But You'd Have Calculation Problems:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3759398
Continued:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3785571
Hong Kong!:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3782319
Hong Kong! addendum:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3790884
Manners and Mutual Respect (respecting that it's not for sale) vs. LVT Covetousness:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3792359
Knowledge or Wanting: Which one creates the initiation of Force?:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3792458
Cantillon (Land Barony is A-OK!):
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3793697
An Instance of the Impossible -- Legitimately Homesteaded Land:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4114906
Four of My Idiotic Howlers:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3757325
Nature is not a Vending Machine!:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3919973
George wanted to nationalize land:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4015769
Continued:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4021482
Georgism Wrong on Value-Imputation:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4116328
The Question:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3793722