NY-Adult biological parent sues for the right to marry their adult biological offspring

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Originally Posted by CaptUSA

Right... :rolleyes:

Because if we don't have governments pointing their guns at us telling us not to do something, we might be tempted. :rolleyes:

Quick, let's pass some laws to ban hitting ourselves over the head with hammers! Maybe we need some laws telling us not to eat dog $#@! at the park? If you opposed to those laws, it can only be because you love yourself some dog $#@!!

How dumb is this guy??

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Originally Posted by Ender

A box a rocks is smarter.

As for scriptures:
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

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I guess we don't need laws against theft and murder either then, right?

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Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

I guess we don't need laws against theft and murder either then, right?

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John 8:15 Context

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12Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. 13The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true. 14Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. 15Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. 16And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. 17It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. 18I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

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Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

I guess we don't need laws against theft and murder either then, right?

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And, we're talking about stuff between consenting adults- theft and murder are not part of that.

.Gov should not be involved in marrige in any way.

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Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

Try actually reading the Bible.

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Lot's daughters got him drunk and fucked him.

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Originally Posted by pcosmar

Where did these "incest" laws come from anyway?

It wasn't the Bible.

sounds like herd management..

and it doesn't apply to Royals.

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Are you sure about that?

https://biblereasons.com/incest/

That said, for all of the people who say "Well Jesus didn't specifically speak against homosexuality." Technically Jesus never spoke about incest or beastiality either.

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Originally Posted by Ender

And, we're talking about stuff between consenting adults- theft and murder are not part of that.

.Gov should not be involved in marrige in any way.

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Is the retarded child they create consenting?

And the government has to be involved in marriage for a variety of legal reasons.

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Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere

Lot's daughters got him drunk and $#@!ed him.

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A great abomination.

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Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

Is the retarded child they create consenting?

And the government has to be involved in marriage for a variety of legal reasons.

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Bullshit- the gov became involved to stop interracial marriages.

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Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

A great abomination.

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https://www.dulwichpicturegallery.or....jpg&width=807

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Originally Posted by Ender

John 8:15 Context

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Are you trying to claim there is no sin and there will be no judgement?

The Son was sent to offer repentance and redemption to those whom the Father judges if they do not accept the Son and forsake their sins.

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Originally Posted by Ender

Bull$#@!- the gov became involved to stop interracial marriages.

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Nope, the government was already involved in divorces, inheritances and many other legal aspects of marriage.
Including prohibiting incest.

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Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

I guess we don't need laws against theft and murder either then, right?

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^^ See this, folks?? This is what happens when people don't understand the difference. They can't make the distinction. Wanna know how the state grows?? This is the reason. Why do we have all these laws?? People really believe this argument. On both sides.

Let's make laws to stop something almost no one does and the only victim is "society". Because getting the state involved will definitely make things better.

I should probably thank SS for providing this example instead of berating him.

The real question of this thread ought to be how do we help these poor lost souls to see that the State does not serve the will of the people. The State is a bureaucratic institution. You put that institution in charge of things it has no purpose regulating and your problems will always get worse. Always.

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Originally Posted by Sammy

Mark my words:
The left is going to legalize beastiality.

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Originally Posted by Anti Federalist

Yes, they will, that is one of the "markers" on the war front they are waging.

There are two prongs of this attack, both serving different goals:

1 - One is the more esoteric goal of moving the ball down the field of Marxism. Weirdo-sexualism accomplishes this a number of ways, first by turning objective reality on its head and by forcing to accept insanity as objective truth, i.e. the fat man in a dress with chemically enhanced tits is a woman, and you will accept that without question. It saps the will of the targeted population, removes incentives for men and women to support and nurture each other and grows a general sense of FUD. It also controls the population that is targeted for destruction.

2 - Is the normalization of the pre-pubescent pedophilia and sexual "snuff". These are the end game taboos.

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This belongs here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW_FCccuv3Q

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Originally Posted by CaptUSA

^^ See this, folks?? This is what happens when people don't understand the difference. They can't make the distinction. Wanna know how the state grows?? This is the reason. Why do we have all these laws?? People really believe this argument. On both sides.

Let's make laws to stop something almost no one does and the only victim is "society". Because getting the state involved will definitely make things better.

I should probably thank SS for providing this example instead of berating him.

The real question of this thread ought to be how do we help these poor lost souls to see that the State does not serve the will of the people. The State is a bureaucratic institution. You put that institution in charge of things it has no purpose regulating and your problems will always get worse. Always.

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Incest is not a victimless crime, ask the inbred children.

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Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

Incest is not a victimless crime, ask the inbred children.

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Maybe I already am? Lol

Seriously, though.... Take a few minutes to try to understand the point of that post.

The only victim you can find is someone who didn't even exist at the point of the crime??? And your understanding of the way government operates thinks putting them in charge of mitigating that damage is the way to make things better? Parenting is not a victimless crime. Everyone of us does things that will damage our kids in some way. Your parents damaged you. I haven't met an undamaged person yet! I suppose we need laws for parenting now...

A bureaucratic institution has no business telling people who they can wed. Most of us will get it right without them. And the ones that don't will be few. Unless we get that infernal institution involved.

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Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere

Lot's daughters got him drunk and $#@!ed him.

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Shit never changes.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/spain-acq...133652562.html

A Spanish court has provoked outrage by acquitting a man of sexually abusing his 14-year-old stepdaughter despite the fact she gave birth to his child.

The Pamplona court accepted the defendant’s claim that the teenager had sat astride him while he was asleep on the sofa and engaged in penetrative sex. The man said he had no recollection of the supposed encounter as he had been very drunk that night.

Close to nine months later, in December 2018, the girl was admitted to hospital and gave birth to a child, something the accused claimed had been a complete surprise to him and the girl’s mother. Social services ordered a paternity test, which confirmed that the stepfather was the father of the baby.

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Originally Posted by CaptUSA

Maybe I already am? Lol

Seriously, though.... Take a few minutes to try to understand the point of that post.

The only victim you can find is someone who didn't even exist at the point of the crime??? And your understanding of the way government operates thinks putting them in charge of mitigating that damage is the way to make things better? Parenting is not a victimless crime. Everyone of us does things that will damage our kids in some way. Your parents damaged you. I haven't met an undamaged person yet! I suppose we need laws for parenting now...

A bureaucratic institution has no business telling people who they can wed. Most of us will get it right without them. And the ones that don't will be few. Unless we get that infernal institution involved.

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It's more like I am the one talking to one.
Parenting is not a crime, parenting mistakes that hurt your psyche are not crimes, but they might explain a few things.
If you took a normal child and physically deformed them or brain damaged them it would be a crime, doing it to a child you create doesn't change that.
A victim is a victim whether they existed before the crime was committed or were created by it.

Name one single case of a rights violation by the government prohibiting incest. (claiming to have right to incest doesn't count, I have already proven there is a victim)

Government exists to prohibit and punish crimes including this one so government does have business telling people they can't marry their children or siblings etc.
Just stop defending degeneracy for the sake of rebelling against all authority, it won't undo whatever your father did to you.

To all in this thread,

If you believe it a sin then it is one to you,

I married one woman and love two.

I live in an impossible situation.. with a Mother and Daughter. (not easy,not impossible)

I am kept like a pet.. sometimes..

but God has blessed my life..

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Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

Try actually reading the Bible.

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Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

I told someone Libertardians would support this and it looks like I was right.

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Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

It looks like libertardians want to marry their own daughters.
Family tradition?

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You know, I do try to judge not, lest I be judged. But in your case, it's very difficult, as all you seem to come here to do is judge, and spit insults, and fling poo like a petulant monkey.

Try reading the Bible yourself. And, no, I don't mean scouring the Old Testament looking for excuses to condemn people like a Pharisee. I mean this part, the nitty gritty, before it's too late:

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Originally Posted by Ender

A box a rocks is smarter.

As for scriptures:
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

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Do you really want to go see St. Peter while resembling this remark?

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Originally Posted by ClaytonB

But there is another, much more vicious breed of tormentor. These you will only find in the robes of the clergy, and their specialty is empathic feeding on the psychological and spiritual torment of others. They never touch their victims physically but leave them in more agony than the most unrecognizable inmate in a Russian gulag. And they do so "with the approval of their own conscience", meaning, they have talked themselves into believing that torturing people is somehow saving them. This is a level of darkness that the most vicious dogs in the State and its intelligence agencies have never even dreamed of.

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Really?

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Originally Posted by CaptUSA

^^ See this, folks?? This is what happens when people don't understand the difference. They can't make the distinction. Wanna know how the state grows?? This is the reason. Why do we have all these laws?? People really believe this argument. On both sides.

Let's make laws to stop something almost no one does and the only victim is "society". Because getting the state involved will definitely make things better.

I should probably thank SS for providing this example instead of berating him.

The real question of this thread ought to be how do we help these poor lost souls to see that the State does not serve the will of the people. The State is a bureaucratic institution. You put that institution in charge of things it has no purpose regulating and your problems will always get worse. Always.

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I'm in general agreement but I think it's more nuanced than that.

SS wants to live in a culture with religious values. Part of these values is traditional marriage and strictly no weird stuff in the bedroom. If he wants to live in a culture that outlaws weird stuff, I think it's his right to do so - as long as the others who are living in his culture are living there voluntarily.

In the event participation in his culture is no longer voluntary, it is the right of the non-compliant individuals to secede, and it is the obligation of SS culture to provide an equitable means to allow them to secede.

Well, my quote above is taken a bit out-of-context and wasn't referring to Swordsmyth or anyone on a forum who is expressing their own views (whether they are correct or incorrect).

I think that the really difficult social problems like incest illustrate the whole problem with the State. We are trying to use human laws to solve spiritual problems that are simply impervious to simplistic, one-size-fits-all human laws, which are the only kind of laws we can really make via government. When God created Adam in the Garden, Adam answered to no man, only to God. And Eve also answered to no one but God (see Gen. 3), even though Adam was the spiritual head of the earthly creation, and the first marriage. And so we see in this the true pattern by which God has made people. For one man (or woman) to bow down to another man is an abomination, and a corruption of the image of God within man:

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Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” (Matthew 4:8,9)

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The corruption of the Edenic order is the only reason that the State can exist at all. Its sheer existence is a slap in God's face, just as much as the reasons that God has permitted it to exist (in order to suppress other, worse abominations through threats, violence and warfare). And the State is not even redeemable, it will be utterly destroyed at the end of the Age, along with all other abominations:

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Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured ... [and] thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The [kings of the earth and their armies] were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh. (Revelation 19:19-21, excerpt)

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This will be the final fate of the State -- at the end of the age, those who comprise the State (as such) will be executed and their corpses eaten by wild birds. What will replace the State is the eternal Kingdom of God and its King, who is Jesus.

"But this passage is only talking about those who worship the Beast." Exactly. To belong to the State (as such), is one and the same as worshiping the Beast, because the State is a corruption of the Edenic order wherein man ruled the creatures of the earth (the beasts of the field); instead, the State-principle is force, which is the principle by which the beasts in this world live... Nature red in tooth and claw. Everyone who is trapped in this anti-human, anti-God, antichrist system will either repent and come out of it, or they will eventually end up worshiping the Beast and following him to his fate in the lake of fire.

Force decides nothing. Force proves nothing. Force is the cutting short of moral reasoning (or any kind of reasoning), so it is the diametric opposite of morality. That God permits the abomination of the State to exist is not some kind of stamp of approval on it. The State is like bleach. Sure, bleach in low concentration will kill nasty, infectious germs that you don't want around. But in high concentration, bleach will also kill you. Neither bleach nor infectious germs are desirable, what is desirable is cleanliness (metaphor for God's holiness as expressed in the created order of Eden, as God originally made it).

</sermon>

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Originally Posted by TheTexan

I'm in general agreement but I think it's more nuanced than that.

SS wants to live in a culture with religious values. Part of these values is traditional marriage and strictly no weird stuff in the bedroom. If he wants to live in a culture that outlaws weird stuff, I think it's his right to do so - as long as the others who are living in his culture are living there voluntarily.

In the event participation in his culture is no longer voluntary, it is the right of the non-compliant individuals to secede, and it is the obligation of SS culture to provide an equitable means to allow them to secede.

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Fair enough.
But I wasn't even calling for anti-sodomy laws or the criminalization of adultery etc., I don't think government should be involved in those things. (except when it comes up in divorces etc.)
But incest is not a victimless crime, if a bunch of inbreds want to secede and allow all manner of victimizing crimes they should be allowed to do so until it spills over the border and then it will be time to either close the border completely or go to war with them depending on the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

But incest is not a victimless crime, if a bunch of inbreds want to secede and allow all manner of victimizing crimes they should be allowed to do so until it spills over the border and then it will be time to either close the border completely or go to war with them depending on the circumstances.

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Fair enough :up:

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Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

But incest is not a victimless crime,

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Not a crime at all till someone created one..
Apparently you buy into Eugenics.. as you are parroting it.

Do you favor Forced Sterilization of the unfit? that is the very next step..

oh,,that was done already...

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Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

Nope, the government was already involved in divorces, inheritances and many other legal aspects of marriage.
Including prohibiting incest.

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Why don't they prevent the Royals from practicing it..
It has been Common for centuries. but forbidden to commoners.

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Originally Posted by pcosmar

Why don't they prevent the Royals from practicing it..
It has been Common for centuries. but forbidden to commoners.

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Didn't Henry the 8th have an issue with Marriage and the Church.??

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influenced by the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences are seared with a hot iron. They will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from certain foods that God has created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

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Certain Foods..Green Herbs and seed bearing plants?

The rest is Eugenic Herd Management.. "who can marry who".

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Originally Posted by pcosmar

Why don't they prevent the Royals from practicing it..
It has been Common for centuries. but forbidden to commoners.

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Because they care more about power than science or religion.
They have had plenty of deformed and retarded royals because of it.

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Originally Posted by pcosmar

Not a crime at all till someone created one..
Apparently you buy into Eugenics.. as you are parroting it.

Do you favor Forced Sterilization of the unfit? that is the very next step..

oh,,that was done already...

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Bunk.
GOD prohibits it and it produces legitimately damaged children.
It is a sin, a crime and an abomination.