Just picked up 3 copies of today's Wall Street Journal. There is front page article on gold and a full page ad on C-5 about Fort Knox being empty. "We are in a new era believe it or not." - Ron Paul
Join the Ron Paul Gold Rush!
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Just picked up 3 copies of today's Wall Street Journal. There is front page article on gold and a full page ad on C-5 about Fort Knox being empty. "We are in a new era believe it or not." - Ron Paul
Join the Ron Paul Gold Rush!
To make matters worse, most of the nations gold was stored under the World Trade Center. They only recovered 1/3 of the gold after the attacks. What happened to all that gold?
http://www.8thestate.com/?page_id=11
The Fed’s gold reserve is housed 100 ft. beneath its headquarters, only blocks from the World Trade Center, whose twin towers collapsed into mammoth heaps of rubble after two hijacked jetliners were crashed into the buildings.
The Fed boasts that its gold depository spans the length of two football fields and contains more gold than any other vault on earth.
Its deposits are believed to surpass the value of the legendary Fort Knox gold reserves in the mid-1980s.
While the Fed declines to release the total value of gold on deposit, it is unofficially estimated at more than $25 billion. But the gold stored in that facility does not belong to the U.S.; it’s owned by foreign nations, including Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/gold.html
Missing Gold
A King's Ransom in Precious Metals Seems to Have Disappeared
This image is found on the PBS.org website companion for the television documentary America Rebuilds under the section Uncovering Property. The page, entitled A Treasure in Silver and Gold, describes the vault as two levels of 3,000 square feet each. See the source for the full-sized image. The page credits images to Leslie E. Robertson and Associates.
The basement of 4 World Trade Center housed vaults used to store gold and silver bullion. Published articles about precious metals recovered from the World Trade Center ruins in the aftermath of the attack mention less than $300 million worth of gold. All such reports appear to refer to a removal operation conducted in late October of 2001. On Nov. 1, Mayor Rudolph Giuliani announced that "more than $230 million" worth of gold and silver bars that had been stored in a bomb-proof vault had been recovered. A New York Times article contained:
Two Brinks trucks were at ground zero on Wednesday to start hauling away the $200 million in gold and silver that the Bank of Nova Scotia had stored in a vault under the trade center ... A team of 30 firefighters and police officers are helping to move the metals, a task that can be measured practically down to the flake but that has been rounded off at 379,036 ounces of gold and 29,942,619 ounces of silver .. 1
Reports describing the contents of the vaults before the attack suggest that nearly $1 billion in precious metals was stored in the vaults. A figure of $650 million in a National Real Estate Investor article published after the attack is apparently based on pre-attack reports.
Unknown to most people at the time, $650 million in gold and silver was being kept in a special vault four floors beneath Four World Trade Center. 2
An article in the TimesOnline gives the following rundown of precious metals that were being stored in the WTC vault belonging to Comex. 3
Comex metals trading - 3,800 gold bars weighing 12 tonnes and worth more than $100 million
Comex clients - 800,000 ounces of gold with a value of about $220 million
Comex clients - 102 million ounces of silver, worth $430 million
Bank of Nova Scotia - $200 million of gold
The TimesOnline article is not clear as to whether the $200 million in gold reported by the Bank of Nova Scotia was part of the $220 million in gold held by Comex for clients. If so, the total is $750 million; otherwise $950 million.
There appear to be no reports of precious metals discovered between November of 2001 and the completion of excavation several months later. Assuming that the above reports described the value of precious metals in the vaulst before the attack, and that the $230 million mentioned by Giuliani represented the approxmiate value of metals recovered, it would seem that at least the better part of a billion dollars worth of precious metals went missing. (It is not plausible, of course, that whatever destroyed the towers vaporized gold and silver, which are dense, inert metals that are extremely unlikely to participate in chemical reactions with other materials.)
An article in The Sierra Times suggests that gold was recovered from two trucks in a tunnel under 5 World Trade Center, giving rise to suspicions that the trucks were being used to remove the gold from the vaults before the South Tower fell. 4 However, this report may have been based on an erroneous reading of other reports that describe the removal of crushed vehicles from a tunnel under 5 WTC in order to gain access to the vaults under 4 WTC to remove their contents. 5
Why is there this huge discrepancy between the value of gold and silver reported recovered, and the value reported to have been stored in the vaults? There are a number of possible explanations, from outright theft using the attack as cover, to insurance fraud. Until there is a genuine investigation that probes all the relevant facts and circumstances surrounding the attack, we can only speculate.
what did the article have to say about where it went?
Can you (or someone) scan these in or take a decent digital picture for me? I'd like to put this on the Ron Paul Timeline since Ron has said previously that "for all we know, there's no gold in Fort Knox"
Here is a copy of the WSJ ad. I don't have the front page article on gold yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanehand
Bill Still is right when saying gold is not the answer. This is where I disagree with Ron Paul in going to gold standard and commodity based currency. The creator of the Money Masters Bill Still's proposal of government issued fiat from the U.S. Treasury is the answer to the mess of fractional reserve banking.
What the heck are you talking about? The NY Fed's gold vault (I've been there, very impressive) isn't under the WTC. Where do you say they say it's two football fields long? (sure seemed WAY smaller to me).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex Post Facto
Yes, there were some PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS that had gold stores at WTC, but that is a separate issue.
I would think Ron Paulwould be able to evaluate his policies better if in the white house. He may only accomplish a percentage of what he wants, but I've no doubt he would work in the intrests of America.
He has no credibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitLion
WSJ article
Investors Rush to Gold
BY E.S. BROWNING
Word Count: 1,798
The new gold rush is on.
As inflation has picked up and the stock market has tumbled, investors seeking a safe haven have piled into gold, driving the metal to all-time highs.
Since mid-August, New York gold futures have risen more than 42%. After finishing down at the early-afternoon close yesterday, they shot above Monday's record of $927.10 in later electronic trading. The peak occurred after the Federal Reserve cut its target lending rates, which sent the dollar -- gold's big competitor -- lower.
Historically, the world's most enthusiastic buyers of the metal have been catastrophe-fearing "gold bugs" in places ...
Here is the GATA ad:
http://www.gata.org/files/GATA-AD-01-14-2008.pdf
Um these commodities are easily manipulated in private hands just like fractional reserve banking. No credibility yeah right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradley in DC
Since you're apparently obtuse, I said "he" has no credibility (as in he says things that aren't true, takes things out of context to make his point and no one who understands these issues ever cites him for fear of losing credibility themselves).Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitLion
As for the ideas, fractional reserve banking is not inherently fraudulent, as G. Edward Griffin explained recently on RonPaulRadio.com. (Claiming 100% reserve and then not having would be fraudulent.)
It is the monopoly of money (by the government or through the government such as our current system) that makes it "easily manipulated." Dr. Paul's movement isn't about socialism and government control over money and the economy. Our rEVOLution is about the free market and getting the government out of the way of competition.
Yeah, right.
You do realize how much gold it would take to back a nation with an economy of trillions of dollars?
You do realize how much gold is in Fort Knox?
You do realize that to obtain the gold to back up the economy on the gold standard would put the nation in crushing debt.
The loan would be acquired thru loan at interest. There would be no way to pay back this debt. This would not serve the best interests of the people.
Trillions of dollars of make believe debt based on fiat currency.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitLion
How much debt are you willing to put this country in in order to go back to the gold standard????Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.3D
Ah, now you are getting the picture. George Soros is saying this is the unwinding of a 60 year credit bubble. As Ron Paul said, "We are in a new era, believe it or not."Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitLion
The unwinding of a credit bubble results in a Kondratieff winter. As the deflation and hyperinflation hits there is only one place to go .... down the pyramid. Most capital is now in T-Bills as their the 3m yields are down to 2.3% which is a negative real return of 1.7%. The Fed is lowering the Fed Funds rate trying to wield a club to beat people out of cash.
http://www.runtogold.com/Run_To_Gold...oppedImage.jpg
But people will just move to different cash. Cash that is denominated in gold instead of US$, Euros, Pounds, etc. There is already an alternative currency that can be used in daily transactions that is 100% backed by gold. Join the Ron Paul Gold Rush!
He didn't say anything remotely close to the nonsense you twisted his post into. He has a point, the same point I've been trying to get an answer too. The US economy has an inherent value, as does the entire world's. It's far surpassed the value of some arbitrary and speculative commodity. How exactly do you plan to implement a gold standard? You could buy out all the world's gold with a fraction of solely the US dollars in circulation, let alone all those currencies of other countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonahtrainer
Any amount of gold would be enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitLion
In the process of moving to a gold standard, the price of gold would be fixed relative to the dollar at a level much higher than the current price -- perhaps $30,000 per ounce, based on the current money supply and the government's stated reserves (which are probably wrong).
This concept has been written about extensively. Edward Griffin talks about this in "The Creature from Jekyll Island". You also might want to check out Ron Paul's book, "The Case for Gold".
JordanQ72 is a known troll. Do not feed the trolls.Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanQ72
Because of technology banks, central banks and consequently the 'gold standard' are obsolete.
As people ranging from libertarians to anarcho capitalists, I've never understand how you can support a gold standard.
Do you guys understand what it means to 'fix' the dollar to some valuation in gold? It means a complete manipulation of the gold markets by the governments. That never made any sense to mean, as an argument put forth as a good idea by people dead set in as much free market notions as possible.
Let gold be gold, let a government's currency be currency, and the two float as the free markets see fit.
Oh, is that the only reply you have to me sweetie? When someone asks some pointed questions just call them a troll? GreatQuote:
Originally Posted by jonahtrainer
You know, if your theories were resting on such solid foundations, an explanation shouldn't be at all complicated.
We've been here before many times and you are simply trolling again.Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanQ72
You obviously do not have the most basic understanding of how the monetary terms developed. Rothbard's Case for 100% Gold Dollar explains how the term 'dollar' was used to denote a weight, purity and metal (371.25 grains of .999 pure silver). So likewise Franc, Pound, etc. There is no government manipulation at all. It is like saying there is government manipulation for defining a football field as 300 yards.Quote:
Do you guys understand what it means to 'fix' the dollar to some valuation in gold? It means a complete manipulation of the gold markets by the governments.
We are not calling for fixing the price of gold, we are calling for the dollar to be defined as a weight of gold. The price (value measured by what must be given or done or undergone to obtain something) of gold would still be determined by the market place. For example, if the price of a personal computer is 3 oz. of gold, then the price of gold is 1/3 of a personal computer.Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanQ72
Well that's just semantics, you want the government to engage in price fixing. Say a government wants gold to be $100 to an ounce. To maintain something like that, requires a manipulation of the gold markets. For every new ounce of gold found, the government would issue $100 dollars. This is direct market manipulation in my opinion. You can have a gold standard with fiat money in that case, the FED just conducts open market operations in response to market movements in gold to allow people to buy and sell dollars for a constant amount of gold.Quote:
Originally Posted by pdavis
No, I am not calling for the government to engage in price fixing, again I am calling for the dollar to be defined as a weight of gold just as an inch is defined as 1/12 of a foot. If anything it is you who wants price fixing by allowing the government through a central bank to "conduct (direct the course of; manage or control) open market operations in response to market movements in gold to allow people to buy and sell dollars for a constant (a quantity that does not vary; a fixed value) amount of gold.Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanQ72
I see, so you're actually asking that something slightly different be done than was even used when this country was on a gold standard. Back when America was on a gold standard, gold and dollars would have a fixed exchange rate that the government would work on maintaining. Yes, it translated into a certain weight of gold being exchanged, because there is no other way to measure gold, but the government conducted itself to maintain this ratio. This ratio didn't somehow maintain itself through varying reserves and findings of gold.Quote:
Originally Posted by pdavis
So, you don't believe the statistics? The statistics that have shown that all fiat currencies fail? Sorry buddy...but I've dealt with fiat currency all my life, and I don't like it one bit....not only that, it's dirty and nasty (and could carry disease on it)....that is, if it's paper.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitLion
gold/silver is stable (relatively), and if used in coins is a natural anti-bacterial.
Colonial Script was fiat - it worked as did Greenbacks as did Tallysticks!
Fiat is the same as GOLD! They are both what people perceive money to be.
The evil is private fed having a monopoly on the currency.
I am against fractional reserve banking and the fed having a monopoly on our currency.
I am for hard assets and competing currencies - even if that means a currency that is fiat or platinum (or any other element)! May the best currency win, may we be free to chose what we want to pay with.