Any other software guys out there?

I had and idea, so best you start running now.

As "government" goes ever wilder in its stridency, 87K new IRS agents coming immediately to mind, I have wondered whether the time has come for we the people to get serious about defending ourselves against Theire ever more violent intrusions.

Theire agents do no-knocks, often on the wrong locations, shoot the dog, beat or even murder other family members, destroy the house, toss flash-bangs into cradles where infants sleep, and so on down the miserable list we all know too well.

The idea that twigged this afternoon was <DRUMROLL>... An app. Surprising, right? Specifically, a phone/pad/computer app that would allow people to broadcast calls to action.

Imagine the IRS bangs in your door. You fire off a call for help, not to worthless police who would do nothing better than help their compatriots, but to a circle who would presumably show up to your location, perhaps well armed, and ready to render aid. The idea here is that if police, etc. had to worry about significant numbers of armed friends, family, and neighbors of those whom you are violating showing up, they might come to a new view on such matters, such as making damned certain of the addresses they intend on serving no-knock warrants.

So long as we stand idly for the sorts of outrageous violations that have become now commonplace, Theye will continue to wratchet up their campaigns of terror and oppression against us. It is long overdue that we begin reeling these cretinous instruments of tyranny to heel.

Thoughts?

Good luck getting the Apple Appstore to approve it. You would have to make the app for something else and some how people would have to figure out that is what it's for.

Currently, you can create a large text message group with your neighbors and people would just have to text the group if something goes down. Just make sure to let everybody know it's not a discussion thread, it's for emergencies only, otherwise people won't pay attention to it.

First of all, I appreciate your obvious disgust of things that are not right. I am there with you fully.

But I do not think in any local universe this is going to be a viable thing. Legally there are a few issues with it, as you're sort of making an app to summon a mob. You might not describe it that way but government lawyers for sure would. Then secondly, you're calling to action, then at some point, because you have a platform, you attain some legal responsibility of what happens after, which after x events will for sure trigger some negative effect. The negative effect likely includes loud noises, unwanted releases of vital bodily fluids, parts and thereafter a legal case leading to bankruptcy. (edit; and I forgot the) And worse.

P.S. I do not think these negative effects are insurable at any payable rate.

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Originally Posted by osan

I had and idea, so best you start running now.

As "government" goes ever wilder in its stridency, 87K new IRS agents coming immediately to mind, I have wondered whether the time has come for we the people to get serious about defending ourselves against Theire ever more violent intrusions.

Theire agents do no-knocks, often on the wrong locations, shoot the dog, beat or even murder other family members, destroy the house, toss flash-bangs into cradles where infants sleep, and so on down the miserable list we all know too well.

The idea that twigged this afternoon was <DRUMROLL>... An app. Surprising, right? Specifically, a phone/pad/computer app that would allow people to broadcast calls to action.

Imagine the IRS bangs in your door. You fire off a call for help, not to worthless police who would do nothing better than help their compatriots, but to a circle who would presumably show up to your location, perhaps well armed, and ready to render aid. The idea here is that if police, etc. had to worry about significant numbers of armed friends, family, and neighbors of those whom you are violating showing up, they might come to a new view on such matters, such as making damned certain of the addresses they intend on serving no-knock warrants.

So long as we stand idly for the sorts of outrageous violations that have become now commonplace, Theye will continue to wratchet up their campaigns of terror and oppression against us. It is long overdue that we begin reeling these cretinous instruments of tyranny to heel.

Thoughts?

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luctor hit some of the issues.

From the technical standpoint, the problem with cellphones is that they are enemy-made devices communicating over the enemy's network. How are you going to use these inherently compromised spy-devices to accomplish any good end? The answer is, you can't, at least, not without going to extreme lengths that only a few of us have the skills for. And even then, you ultimately have to cut the umbilical cord to the cell-tower because that is where the "rootkit" is located (it's in the telco's service layer in the SIM card, so you can't escape it so long as the service payment for the device can be traced back to you.)

From a social standpoint, this is basically what the permanent Establishment is.... they are an interlocking network of gangs who have reached a kind of smoldering detente that only flares up occasionally in various locations. The old adage applies -- you can't fight fire with fire.

From a spiritual standpoint, this is ultimately what the church is for. The church model is to surround and embrace, rather than surround and attack. The history of the church is full of stories of martyrdom and persecution that began with one member being singled-out, then an entire congregation surrounding them, then being mass-arrested and dragged to the gallows or pyre or whatever. That the church is built on the model of "victory through dying" shows that Jesus is, truly, the Prince of Peace. He did not establish a kingdom of thugs who surround you and kick the snot out of you because you made the mistake of trying to arrest one of them. No, we are a kingdom of peace and we stand or fall together. In the long-run, this is the only solution which will prevail, all others will be stamped out.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6-axLHh5V8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLWBaW4f38I

I have a hunch the Obama phones have something like that preinstalled and been used to coordinate Antifa.

Not a software guy, but I say try it out and see if it works. We need options.

Besides, it's better than poking holes in every potential idea that could lead us closer to liberty. Try. Them. All.

If you have an idea and the technical knowhow - pursue it!

dannno's right. You don't need tricky features or nationwide coordination, just an address. So, avoid the development, the downloads triggering red flags, the liability, the odds of people you don't know and can't trust getting on the network, all of it. Just band together a neighborhood (citywide, greater metropolitan whatever) watch and keep it simple.

The Minuteman group is the great idea, and it certainly is a great idea. The app isn't really even necessary. The colonists did it with a silversmith on a horse.

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Originally Posted by Dr.3D

I have a hunch the Obama phones have something like that preinstalled and been used to coordinate Antifa.

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Antifa and friends have used existing technology and apps to coordinate for years. That being said, the “authorities” had no more desire to stop them than they had to stop the Jan 6 protesters.

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Originally Posted by dannno

Good luck getting the Apple Appstore to approve it.

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Don't care much. It would be nice, but that was a first thought. Apple wont sell P2P platforms like eDonkey, either. They nonetheless survive, if in comparative marginality.

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You would have to make the app for something else and some how people would have to figure out that is what it's for.

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Make if for anything. Hell, it could be written in Python, source included (obviously) and let the community manage it much the way it is done with programs such as FreeCAD.

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Currently, you can create a large text message group with your neighbors and people would just have to text the group if something goes down.

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Yes, but I'm thinking that this is more than just that. Granted, my notion is rather vague at this stage, but I'm thinking that there may be more to it than just a text deal. Possible transmission of live audio/video of what is happening... nothing overly complicated since the intended use would come in a context where speed is of paramount concern. One cannot be fumbling with the thing, trying to figure out which feature to use.

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Just make sure to let everybody know it's not a discussion thread, it's for emergencies only, otherwise people won't pay attention to it.

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Valid point, but I'm thinking that this becomes a self-correcting deal, particularly for those crying wolf or otherwise misusing the tool.

Also, and I should have mentioned this upfront, I'm not thinking along for-profit lines. My thought is that it's free, the source is included, GNU licensing, etc. and so forth.

The main problem I see in terms of pure function is that cops, being the vermin tyrants they tend, might start using cell jamming setups just prior to kicking in your door to shoot the dog and grenade your toddler. Having versions for hard-wired home networks would also be available, ideally. Getting a warrant to force the telecom to cut your network connection would, at the very least, cause them great heartburn and might not even be possible. Then there are those using VPNs... :)

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Originally Posted by osan

Don't care much. It would be nice, but that was a first thought. Apple wont sell P2P platforms like eDonkey, either. They nonetheless survive, if in comparative marginality.

Make if for anything. Hell, it could be written in Python, source included (obviously) and let the community manage it much the way it is done with programs such as FreeCAD.

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You misunderstand how the phone apps ecosystem works. The phone you receive when you purchase a phone is "non-root" which means that the manufacturer has locked the Android or iOS operating-system down so that it cannot be modified. The installed OS will not allow the user to get "root privilege", only the OS itself (and Apple/Google and the telco) have that ability. So you literally do not control your phone at all. Your phone is the equivalent of a self-driving Tesla and the steering wheel is just there to make you feel like you're "driving" it. The only way to install apps is through the Apple/Google stores, and this is by design -- they want to keep all non-authorized apps from running on their platforms at all (supposedly to prevent malware, but the real reason is control, obviously). You can root your phone, but doing so will make it unable to operate as a cellular device, because the cellular infrastructure will not allow a rooted phone to connect. So, since the control is imposed at the physical (RF) layer, there is really no way around it. If you have a paid subscription phone line, then you have to have a non-rooted phone which will only allow you to install apps through the Apple/Google store. And if you root your phone (so you can install any software on it you want), then it will be unable to connect to the cell tower.

You can "de-Google" an Android phone, but it's a massive technological feat, and you need a lot of skill to do it right. Here's a video walking through the steps involved:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXLo15l2i4c

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Yes, but I'm thinking that this is more than just that. Granted, my notion is rather vague at this stage, but I'm thinking that there may be more to it than just a text deal. Possible transmission of live audio/video of what is happening... nothing overly complicated since the intended use would come in a context where speed is of paramount concern. One cannot be fumbling with the thing, trying to figure out which feature to use.

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I could mince words or I could give it to you straight: what you are describing is an FBI wet-dream.

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The main problem I see in terms of pure function is that cops, being the vermin tyrants they tend, might start using cell jamming setups just prior to kicking in your door to shoot the dog and grenade your toddler. Having versions for hard-wired home networks would also be available, ideally. Getting a warrant to force the telecom to cut your network connection would, at the very least, cause them great heartburn and might not even be possible. Then there are those using VPNs... :)

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No, the real problem is that the cops would be wired into your network and use it to gain even more access to your private information than they already have (which is pretty much 100%). You're voluntarily switching on your mic/camera with this app, which is something that they can do, but they have to be careful about it, legally. Since you're installing this app whose purpose is to switch it on voluntarily, they don't have to tip-toe around the legal complexities anymore, they've got full-time 100% access.

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Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty

Antifa and friends have used existing technology and apps to coordinate for years. That being said, the “authorities” had no more desire to stop them than they had to stop the Jan 6 protesters.

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Antifa works for the same Establishment who built and operates the cellular infrastructure, so they have 100% cover/protection. It's amazing how you can just breeze through locked doors when you have the keys...

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Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo

First of all, I appreciate your obvious disgust of things that are not right. I am there with you fully.

But I do not think in any local universe this is going to be a viable thing. Legally there are a few issues with it, as you're sort of making an app to summon a mob.

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A couple things. Firstly, if you're being invaded or the threat is imminent, legalities may have to take a back seat to the more immediate issue of survival. If my child may be injured, I will worry about the legal ramifications long after the immediate event has passed and his safety has been secured. If that brings tough consequences for me, so be it. Is that not what parents are supposed to do?

Secondly, I would not even mention cops and other "government" entities in any promotional material. You have an emergency, call for help. Let us not forget that at least in the USA one is not obliged to rely on cops for assistance, particularly in the wake of SCOTUS rulings that police have no obligation to render such aid. So FTP, I'm calling on friends who have pledged mutual aid in the event any member of a circle finds themselves in immediate and serious danger.

Thirdly, and this is a mite redundant, if we live our lives wringing our hands in worry about legalities while people with no authority rape and ravage our existences, then we deserve nothing better than what we get. Toe Theire line if is pleases you, but I am not a fan and I defy Themme at every turn.

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You might not describe it that way but government lawyers for sure would.

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Of course they would. If you made ANY move to defend yourself, Theire agents would charge similarly.

But it would not be marketed as such. It would be marketed simply as a call for help system. Burglar at 2AM? Rioting outside your door and you cannot escape? Drunk causes you to swerve and hit a tree? Fuck calling the police. I don't trust them a whit. My friends are on their way. That this system happens to be good in the event Theire agents begin running amok, well, I call that icing on the cake.

Or do you mean to say that it is better to stand idle as some evil actor destroys your life? I think the time to say enough is enough is long past. Act like Freemen or shut up and stop complaining about the injustices of "government". To whinge about it, yet do nothing effective to countervail Theire evil... That makes us noting better than whiney little bitches.

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Then secondly, you're calling to action, then at some point, because you have a platform, you attain some legal responsibility of what happens after, which after x events will for sure trigger some negative effect. The negative effect likely includes loud noises, unwanted releases of vital bodily fluids, parts and thereafter a legal case leading to bankruptcy. (edit; and I forgot the) And worse.

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What good is any of that concern when some motherfucker lobs a flashbang grenade in your sleeping toddler's room, much less his crib? We either fight this shit seriously, or we fold like cheap suits. The time for equivocation is over. Mr. Shit, meet Mr. GetOffThePot.

I would also point out that my legal responsibility is not perforce as you assert. If I call for help and you come, you do so of your own free will because I've held no gun to you. I would also point out that the most likely outcome of such a development would be that the cops get very polite, very quickly. They tend to be cowardly, finding their purported "courage" only in numbers. I see this routinely any time a cop is challenged, however politely: they call immediately for backup. They are überphags with no balls at all. A breach team of ten cops is politely confronted with, say, ten armed citizens of composed yet firm demeanor, chances are vanishingly small that they are going to open fire.

Time is here to get those tiny lassos around those minuscule scrota and reel those bastards in by their tiny testes to a very short lead. Theye aren't going to do it - I've witnessed what has developed since the 70s with "civilian review boards" and the self-investigations ostensibly aimed at ferreting out corruption. It's all bullshit.

Advocate for the status quo if it pleases you, but I'm trying to get people to think about all this tyranny a little differently. Maybe I'm wrong and you're right, but if so, then I see no point whatsoever in even discussing the issues relevant to this site. Rather that we lay down, open our legs, and hope for the best.

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P.S. I do not think these negative effects are insurable at any payable rate.

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And why should one have to take insurance to exercise a right of self defense? We need to raise ourselves up to the normative ideal, rather than lower ourselves to the abominable standards of positive reality. Doing the latter only serves to perpetuate the dolorous and miserable circumstances that currently prevail. I find it all rather disgusting, and it's what we've been doing as a nation for three full generations, going on a fourth or even fifth. Look at the schools - instead of whipping the shit out of students to raise them up to the higher standard, we have consistently and nearly without exception lowered the bar. Then we complain about the result. When I get to thinking about things like this, I cannot help but think we deserve our creeping servitude and inevitable bald-faced slavery. Big Bro gave it to America right up the exhaust chute and we've done nothing of value to stop it, FTW.

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Originally Posted by Dr.3D

I have a hunch the Obama phones have something like that preinstalled and been used to coordinate Antifa.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax-2i71bqGw

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Originally Posted by ClaytonB

I could mince words or I could give it to you straight: what you are describing is an FBI wet-dream...

No, the real problem is that the cops would be wired into your network and use it to gain even more access to your private information than they already have (which is pretty much 100%). You're voluntarily switching on your mic/camera with this app, which is something that they can do, but they have to be careful about it, legally. Since you're installing this app whose purpose is to switch it on voluntarily, they don't have to tip-toe around the legal complexities anymore, they've got full-time 100% access.

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That would be assuming no real-time encryption. Since data of that sort has a very short shelf life, taking even ten minutes to crack it would likely be too long. In reality with a large public key, it would take much longer, even with NSA backing you. Then there are other strategies that might be employed to make things even trickier, again bearing in mind shelf life.

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Originally Posted by osan

That would be assuming no real-time encryption. Since data of that sort has a very short shelf life, taking even ten minutes to crack it would likely be too long. In reality with a large public key, it would take much longer, even with NSA backing you. Then there are other strategies that might be employed to make things even trickier, again bearing in mind shelf life.

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Again, I could mince words or I can give it to you straight: you have no idea what you're talking about. They don't need to "crack" anything, they simply snarf the keys from your phone. They do it for WhatsApp and every other encrypted app you've ever heard of. The phone itself is compromised at the hardware layer. It doesn't matter what your software app does, the keys are always visible to the hardware. Game Over, Please Insert $1.00 to Play Again.

https://i.postimg.cc/FHNBXJ1s/image.png

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Originally Posted by ClaytonB

Again, I could mince words or I can give it to you straight: you have no idea what you're talking about. They don't need to "crack" anything, they simply snarf the keys from your phone.

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Ah, keystroke readers. Well, assuming that this is the case, security does become a problem, but I would have to see a convincing argument that the hardware-level compromise cannot be defeated. It may be the case, but computer geeks are sneaky little devils and have bailed the world from seemingly tight corners before.

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Originally Posted by osan

Ah, keystroke readers.

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No, not "keystroke readers", full and unrestricted backdoor access. Of course the device can send out keystrokes if that's what is desired (usually unnecessary since you're probably composing a message, accessing a website or writing to file). Edward Snowden explained this all in exhaustive detail 10 years ago. Your phone is insecure-by-design. It was built to be spied on. It is nothing but a spy device masquerading as a phone.

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Well, assuming that this is the case, security does become a problem, but I would have to see a convincing argument that the hardware-level compromise cannot be defeated.

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Think of it like you're in prison and there is a pad and pen in a room monitored by a security guard and CCTV recording. You can write on the pad but every single thing you write is observed. Even if you use encryption, where are you going to store the key? As soon as you write it down on the pad (to use computer encryption, the key must be present in the device), the guard can see it and it's recorded for playback. They don't need to "crack" anything, they just read your key, decrypt your message, and go on their way. Why the hell do you think they built Bluffdale?!

https://i.postimg.cc/xCM7Lrdt/image.png

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It may be the case, but computer geeks are sneaky little devils and have bailed the world from seemingly tight corners before.

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Yes, and Step 1 is to stop using your phone for anything that is even remotely sensitive!

For most modern smartphones, the only way to be completely sure you are safe from your phone is to power it off and place it in a Faraday bag:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EozJr-vdHm8

Edit: I just noticed the thumbnail shows an anti-static bag (upper-right)... these are *not* Faraday bags and cannot be substituted for a proper Faraday bag.

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Originally Posted by ClaytonB

Your phone is insecure-by-design.

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No surprise there. I don't use even my computer for anything important. I knock on someone's door and talk face to face, and only then very carefully. The phones, definitely listen to your conversations. Wife and I will talk about, say, ceiling fans; next you know, your ads are all ceiling fans. Happens all the time.

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Yes, and Step 1 is to stop using your phone for anything that is even remotely sensitive!

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I adopted that habit long ago. Convenience is often evil in disguise.

https://i.imgur.com/nAEaYGN.jpg

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Originally Posted by ClaytonB

From a spiritual standpoint, this is ultimately what the church is for. The church model is to surround and embrace, rather than surround and attack. The history of the church is full of stories of martyrdom and persecution that began with one member being singled-out, then an entire congregation surrounding them, then being mass-arrested and dragged to the gallows or pyre or whatever. That the church is built on the model of "victory through dying" shows that Jesus is, truly, the Prince of Peace. He did not establish a kingdom of thugs who surround you and kick the snot out of you because you made the mistake of trying to arrest one of them. No, we are a kingdom of peace and we stand or fall together. In the long-run, this is the only solution which will prevail, all others will be stamped out.

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Fun story.
In the last three years my parish has had a lot of interpersonal issues, a lot of leadership issues, a lot of infighting, a TON of railroading, and a lot of heated disagreement on how to expand.

Fast forward to August 2022, and a couple people left the parish, but in particular two of the main agitators are gone. Now everything is pretty smooth sailing.

Hey everyone, can you guess which alphabet agency they both worked for which has an academy a couple miles away from us in Stafford, VA?

I can't figure out why but I went against my gut with trusting those two. I did stick with my gut on never getting close or divulging much about myself personally (it wasn't required for the pretty narcissistic and sociopathic interactions I had with them). But if you're in a similar situation, yes, you're supposed to treat them as images of Christ, but you don't have to pretend they're not your enemies just because they're wearing a sheep skin once a week.

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Originally Posted by fisharmor

Fun story.
In the last three years my parish has had a lot of interpersonal issues, a lot of leadership issues, a lot of infighting, a TON of railroading, and a lot of heated disagreement on how to expand.

Fast forward to August 2022, and a couple people left the parish, but in particular two of the main agitators are gone. Now everything is pretty smooth sailing.

Hey everyone, can you guess which alphabet agency they both worked for which has an academy a couple miles away from us in Stafford, VA?

I can't figure out why but I went against my gut with trusting those two. I did stick with my gut on never getting close or divulging much about myself personally (it wasn't required for the pretty narcissistic and sociopathic interactions I had with them). But if you're in a similar situation, yes, you're supposed to treat them as images of Christ, but you don't have to pretend they're not your enemies just because they're wearing a sheep skin once a week.

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Any speculations as to their motives for raking the muck at church?

It is funny to see how being out of a field for awhile turns you into an alien in that field.

This discussion of compromised hardware triggered a memory. Anyone else recall DES? I do so clearly remember when the DES or DESII chip was introduced as a panacea for digital security. It went nowhere because nobody trusted that there were no backdoors in hardware, which sort of proved to be the case, as I vaguely recall.

And yet here we have our cell phones, trusted by nearly all. Even I brain-farted on the possibility of the hardware being corrupted, needing to get slapped up a little in this thread to remind me of that which I know all too well, having been in that biz as an MTS at Bell for better part of a decade.

This reminds me of an event I attended for AT&T personnel in Basking Ridge, ca. 1991. Bell Labs invented the smart card and the event in question was the coming out party for family members. At that time, the smart card was a credit-card sized computer with a contactless interface. It contained everything about you. Driver's licence/ID, medical records, criminal history, and so on down the litany of private matters one may not want made public. By the time we came to the break for lunch, the room stood in initial, stunned silence at what had been presented there. The implications of it were quite staggering to an audience of Bell Labs personnel whose intellects and knowledge tended to the ragged edges of the third sigma on the good end of the bell curve.

When people began recovering themselves, the conversations became furious in the room. I spoke with colleagues known to me, and those unknown. We eavesdropped on those of others as well and for a good half an hour commiserated on the rather dire implications of this invention.

In the month to follow, the issue died away, but the smart card was alive, well, and the technology advancing on a daily basis. Today's smart card is even more eville™ than the original, for the latter had all your information contained therein, rendering unto you some modicum of control, albeit sparse and sickly. Today's smart cards are more highly integrated in the tech, which has itself converged such that all similar cards use closely similar hardware, if not identically sourced.

The information that once sat in your hands now resides in massively redundant servers, the access to which is limited to you, but not to others, all this arrangement having been sworn by their controllers as being "safe" and "private". Bullshit. You have little to no control over that data, but somebody does, their interests coinciding with your own only by deign or dint of chance.

So shame on me for having so carelessly forgotten that we are not safe in the digital jungle. There be monsters out there with big and pointy teeth like Caerbannog, and potentially as vicious, the truer meaning of that word perhaps yet to be realized as talk of "social credit" systems now floats in the aether like a Portuguese Man of War, it's deadly tentacles spread broadly, ready to poison the entire race of men.

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Originally Posted by osan

The time for equivocation is over. Mr. Shit, meet Mr. GetOffThePot.

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There are different ways to fight, and fisticuffs is not going to work here. You have to remember that every member of species Boobus Americanus STILL has no idea what's going on. I know people who hear me make joking side-comments about how my 16 year old girl would have been convinced to get her top surgery by now if she was in public school, and they look at me like I'm some kind of monster who concocted the whole idea in my head, because they're literally clueless about it being reality.

When those boobs hear you've made an app to call people to help you kill police, they're going to believe that's what it is. The TV is going to tell them that you are dangerous to our democracy and they're going to cheer when you "fall down" on the concrete several times on your way to the police cruiser. If you survive what the cops do to you in your cell, and if they decide to feed you more than once every week, and if you don't mysteriously commit suicide, and if you can afford the seven-figure legal fees, and if the case goes to SCOTUS, and if the conservative justices get some sort of epiphany on police violence they've shown no evidence is forthcoming, then you will have won your 15 round title fight and your purse will be you're not dead.

The most effective fights against the state are going to be the ones where the fight the state wants isn't allowed to happen. Making counter claims about what is and isn't self defense is still appealing to THEM to determine and that's the fight they want.


I have a counterproposal that I've had in mind for a while, though. I envision an app dedicated to enacting free market justice.

Let's say you have a new neighbor move in. You meet and introduce yourselves, but because you're a Boobus specimen and you have kids, and he's asian and you're also legit a little racist, you want to look up the background of this stranger who is now right next to you. So you go to your neighbor tracker app to find out if there's anything bad this person has done - and you discover his name is Lon Horiuchi, and the app proceeds to tell you what he did that the government isn't telling you.

Because, of course, we want to do a better job at keeping pedophiles and murderers out of our neighborhood, especially since they're getting released so often now. It's not our fault Derek Chauvin is in there - all we're trying to do is give the people information about the bad shit that's happening all around them.

And of course the app will be reaaaaaaal careful to point out legal ways to react to this. Such as, not talking to the person in question. Not entering contracts with him. Not inviting him to block parties. Keeping him off church committees. But don't ever initiate violence.

The trick is what goes into that database who decides it. That's where you can be real open with what the operating principles are, who the judges of these cases are, reams of notes about what went into the decision to log an action that needs to be displayed on the person in question, etc. Boobus isn't going to read any of that any more than they're going to read Apple's TOS. All they're going to care about is whether their neighbor is a pedo and the app will tell them that.

And the Philip Brailsfords of the world might start to learn that when people are actually allowed to know what you did, they're not going to let it go.

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Originally Posted by osan

Any speculations as to their motives for raking the muck at church?

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Have you talked much with government functionaries? The only reason the federal government works at all is because there are a lot of true believers.
< redacting this story as it's personal and would reflect badly on me for sharing if it got back to people. >

So why the muck raking? Because they're brain damaged and heart damaged.

A few things.

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Originally Posted by fisharmor

There are different ways to fight

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We do not disagree.

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and fisticuffs is not going to work here.

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I remain to be convinced of this. I fully acknowledge that it is a last resort tactic, but that does not invalidate it. When someone is endeavoring to bring you vast harm or destruction and escape is not a viable option, physical warfare becomes the only option to the good old-fashioned folding like a cheap suit. If you feel you are going to die or be horribly maimed whatever you do, then I say take as many of those bastards with you as you are able. And here I speak of other humans in general and not of cops in specific.

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You have to remember that every member of species Boobus Americanus STILL has no idea what's going on. I know people who here me make joking side-comments about how my 16 year old girl would have been convinced to get her top surgery by now if she was in public school, and they look at me like I'm some kind of monster who concocted the whole idea in my head, because they're literally clueless about it being reality.

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Again, we agree.

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When those boobs hear you've made an app to call people to help you kill police, they're going to believe that's what it is.

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And how does that bear upon the evolving situation where, say, a couple of MS13 dangerpunx are breaking into your front door, presumably bent on some real mayhem?

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The TV is going to tell them that you are dangerous to our democracy and they're going to cheer when you "fall down" on the concrete several times on your way to the police cruiser.

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You're buying nothing here because this is already happening on a mass scale. Remember the MOVE bombing in Philly some forty years ago? I remember people cheering for the police who were keeping a raft of uppity N**I**GG**E**R**ZZ from getting... well, more uppity. What you describe is old as the hills and I'm not sure I see it going away any time soon, so we can for all practical purposes regard it as a gravity issue; a given.

I am in no way imaginable advocating for violence, save in the rightful defense of one's life, that of his family, his friends, his community, some no-account stranger walking down Main Street at 1AM... I'm not even advocating for violence in those cases, save as the absolute last resort. But bringing concerned citizens together in such a fashion as to give perpetrators or would-be perpetrators pause to think thrice about what it is they are proposing is, IMO, a necessary condition for bringing propriety to a land that has lost it.

There is a point beyond which physical force, or the threat thereof, becomes the only option to surrendering to crime. This is indisputable fact. If you don't thwart the mugger, you get mugged. Talking sense to him will avail you nothing. Talking badwords will likely motivate him more sternly toward his original intent. Drawing your 1911 from a holster and blowing a hole in him such that he now has other priorities in what remains of his life, works like a charm. It is a regrettable turn, mind you, but not nearly as much so as surrendering your life to him, which is precisely what you risk when you give in because you don't know what that person may be thinking. We are, after all, talking about threats to life and limb; not hurtful words or some clown absconding with a stick of your chewing gum.

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If you survive what the cops do to you in your cell, and if they decide to feed you more than once every week, and if you don't mysteriously commit suicide, and if you can afford the seven-figure legal fees, and if the case goes to SCOTUS, and if the conservative justices get some sort of epiphany on police violence they've shown no evidence is forthcoming, then you will have won your 15 round title fight and your purse will be you're not dead.

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Forgive my candor, but this is defeatist thinking of the "what-if?" variety. While it is wise to consider all that you have listed here, to simply give up because of evil humans, well then why not just retrieve your sidearm, sit on the corner of your bed, and bring an end to the endless torrent of what-if horrors that might befall you?

Life isn't safe, just, or fair, so you have a choice with every breath you draw: be a Freeman navigating the risks and dangers of the human world, or toss up your hands and become the compliant serf or even slave. All these sorts of situations have to be taken on a case by case basis. There are few, if any, universally applicable answers, but my point is to have on hand as many options as possible. Having friends show up to a botched breach operation may indeed prove a saving factor, not only in terms of living or dying, but in the legal terms with which so many appear to be singularly concerned. Witnesses on your side probably cannot hurt. A cadre of armed citizens arriving on scene could prove the difference between things going minimally wrong, and something far worse. It could prove the opposite. These are the risks that we all face in the choice to stand tall or lay down. There are no flawless solutions, but there are optimal ones. Having as many options open to you is perforce better than having less than that many.

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The most effective fights against the state are going to be the ones where the fight the state wants isn't allowed to happen.

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We strongly agree. By all appearances, Theye want us in a civil war. To conclude anything less than this based on what is happening in the world is indicative of eyes wide shut, the absence of an IQ, or someone peddling feces. We are being pushed and prodded every which way imaginable, especially the eville™ white males.

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Making counter claims about what is and isn't self defense is still appealing to THEM to determine and that's the fight they want.

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This certainly is sensible, and yet it is utterly irrelevant to the man who's front door is being kicked in by forces unknown, not all of which are police.

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I have a counterproposal that I've had in mind for a while, though. I envision an app dedicated to enacting free market justice.

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Your use of "justice" might nerit reconsideration, given how clapped out that word has become, courtesy of the subhuman dregs of the left.

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Let's say you have a new neighbor move in. You meet and introduce yourselves, but because you're a Boobus specimen and you have kids, and he's asian and you're also legit a little racist, you want to look up the background of this stranger who is now right next to you. So you go to your neighbor tracker app to find out if there's anything bad this person has done - and you discover his name is Lon Horiuchi, and the app proceeds to tell you what he did that the government isn't telling you.

Because, of course, we want to do a better job at keeping pedophiles and murderers out of our neighborhood, especially since they're getting released so often now. It's not our fault Derek Chauvin is in there - all we're trying to do is give the people information about the bad shit that's happening all around them.

And of course the app will be reaaaaaaal careful to point out legal ways to react to this. Such as, not talking to the person in question. Not entering contracts with him. Not inviting him to block parties. Keeping him off church committees. But don't ever initiate violence.

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All well and good. I like it, in fact, but there are problems of data integrity there, and here I speak not in the technical sense, but that of the truth. How is such information vetted such that the consumer is readily able to reaffirm its value? Mike Ryan moves in next to you and it says he is a child molester, when in fact that bit refers to Mike Ryan who lives three miles away on the other side of town. All things have their challenges.

But again, I say that this is irrelevant to the immediate need for real help from real people because your bacon has just landed in the fire. It could literally be a fire, or who in hell knows what. Perhaps the barn has collapsed on your husband. Perhaps you do NOT want police on your property during such a crisis, and you know that they will come, invited or no, if they get wind of it. They may even be cool guys, but if you don't want them there, that is your prerogative.

When I ground the ends off of two of my fingers on Nov. 7 1974, ~12:20 PM, guess who showed up first to the scene? Freehold Twp police, and not the ambulance. Being 16 and having the ends of two of my fingers opened wide to the world, I didn't care. I was just glad that someone was going to help. But that was a different world. Today, cops arrive and fuck everything up based on the false assumptions they carry, going in. And again, this is but one example, but it is a very valid one. Sometimes, people need to have help of a variety that is decidedly not of the "government" type, and we should be working as a culture toward such goals. The more we rely on Themme, the more power we cede to them, and being humans - or lizard people - Theye will predictably, consistently, and faithfully come to demand more and to abuse what they have, all on your dime.

Once again, and I repeat myself unto the lot of you wanting me to die in my sleep tonight: Mr Shit, meet Mr. GetOffThePot.

Noting wrong with what you are suggesting. I applaud the idea, in fact, as it is yet another option for those who might care to make use. But bear in mind that in the far broader sense of things, we the people have been doing the same things over and over, expecting different results. Well here's the breaking news: nothing has changed for the better, at least not in anything better than the most marginal of senses. It is clear to me that we need to be doing other things, different things, because writing to our Congressmen has bought us doodlysquat.

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The trick is what goes into that database who decides it.

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Very much so, and because humans, the proposition becomes immediately problematic, even in the best cases.

So now imagine the rising startup, Fisharmor Datasystems Inc., captained by the intrepid Fisharmor hisownself, a modest and moral man of great reputation and fine character. And damned be if every byte of data in his tables isn't of the finest truth value. Then one day, being human, the intrepid Fisharmor retires, perhaps even dies in bed, surrounded by his loved ones in a bittersweet farewell to a great man and a life well lived. Fisharmor Datasystems finds itself at a nexus, is sold to Douchepig Datasystems, headed by a board of leftist, government-fellating scum who not only don't give a shit about data integrity, but use Fisharmor in weaponized fashion to advance their masters' political agendas. This is but one of the manifold hazards inherent to the negotiation of a world populated with, or at least lead by, morally bereft people. And so once again we come full circle to the need for the rest of us to stand ready to kick ass and take names when some of us run right past the pale, going amok and causing all manner of shit to befall innocent people in ways that cause real and demonstrable harms.

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That's where you can be real open with what the operating principles are, who the judges of these cases are, reams of notes about what went into the decision to log an action that needs to be displayed on the person in question, etc. Boobus isn't going to read any of that any more than they're going to read Apple's TOS. All they're going to care about is whether their neighbor is a pedo and the app will tell them that.

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Then DO IT. Build Fisharmor Datasystems. If you have a sound idea, I'd even help you, seeing as few others appear interested in doing much more than complaining. But you will need more than just that, I tell you this in earnest. People need at some point to act in ways repugnant to their basic selves, but which they recognize as being necessary in the face of grave threat.

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And the Philip Brailsfords of the world might start to learn that when people are actually allowed to know what you did, they're not going to let it go.

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Ah, but a mere data app will not achieve this. You need a moral and engaged people. Few are up to it. They have no stamina, no sand, no guts, and to be plain, they revel in their personal corruptions, such as they may manifest, so long as it has its happy ending... in the massage-parlor sense of happy.

Consider all the information that is coming forth in the wake of twitter; the rank and rancid corruption, not to mention the outright criminality of these felonious scum. Now consider, just as one example, the current and apparent mean state of the response of the "left": circle the wagons and stonewall. They are corrupt beyond redemption, and so no amount of truth served will avail you the least show of individual integrity because there IS NONE with people such as those. Not only are they scum, they fully luxuriate in the fact, are wed to being such, and have no intentions of ever becoming anything different, much less something better. They want their filth and crime and perfidy and they want literal, material death for anyone who challenges them on it. With such people, there is quite literally and resoundingly, no hope. So what, then, do you do? Lay down? Talk won't cut it.

More options are better than fewer, and 'tis all I am saying.

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Originally Posted by fisharmor

Have you talked much with government functionaries? The only reason the federal government works at all is because there are a lot of true believers.
< redacting this story as it's personal and would reflect badly on me for sharing if it got back to people. >

So why the muck raking? Because they're brain damaged and heart damaged.

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Fair enough.