Separate or Die

h/t @Anti Federalist for the thread title ;)

It was suggested by @Okie RP fan that this topic get it's own thread.

h/t to @Occam's Banana for raising the issue.

Humbly submitted:

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Originally Posted by Occam's Banana

What's more, the U.S. federal government cannot "represent" them, even if it sincerely wanted to. (It doesn't want to, of course, but even if it did ...)

It is simply not possible for a continent-spanning populace of a third of a billion people to be "represented" in any significant and meaningful way.

At best, democracy on such a scale merely conjures the illusion of "representation" as a facade for the executive plantation that actually runs things.

Over time, it can produce only an increasingly ridiculous farce that is as increasingly obvious as it is increasingly absurd.

And when the farce of democracy can no longer be maintained under the weight of its own absurdity, it is apt to be replaced by something even more illiberal and nakedly authoritarian.

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Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCNd7h0fsdE

ETA: I posted this and a few other subversive, secessionist videos/thoughts on FedBook. I'm seeking to harness the energy. :)

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I originally posted this reply in the other thread that spawned this one, but it goes here, too:

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Originally Posted by Anti Federalist

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It is simply not possible for a continent-spanning populace of a third of a billion people to be "represented" in any significant and meaningful way.

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It is not...I could not say it better.

That statement trebles in truth when you add to that the fact that the third of a billion people in question, are now, through deliberate treachery designed to end exactly as stated, with a collapse of "liberal democracy" into authoritarianism and absolute despotism, have become so disparate and utterly at odds with each other, the founding vision of the nation and it's history, so as to be, literally, at war with herself.

Separate or Die.

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[^^^ bold emphasis added - OB]

And just to reinforce the point, "liberal democracy" is an oxymoron.

I don't think that there's anything particularly "liberal" (in the good, classical sense) about democracy. Not at all.

In fact, democracy - especially mass democracy - is one of the most fecund seeds of illiberal authoritarianism.

Politicians know this well and exploit it to the fullest. This is precisely why some of America's wisest "Founding Fathers" were so deeply suspicious and skeptical of democracy and only grudgingly acceded to it. Of course, the limitations they attempted to impose upon it have been eroded and destroyed (see the 17th Amendment for an example of this), and the few barriers and limitations to it that remain, such as the electoral college, have fallen into disrepute and seem increasingly likely to be removed altogether. (I've even seen the suggestion that the U.S. Senate should be apportioned by population, just like the U.S. House.)

And here are some related threads: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/search....rchid=27155319

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Originally Posted by Occam's Banana

And here are some related threads: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/search....rchid=27155319

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That link yields zero search results...?

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Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty

That link yields zero search results...?

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Well, damn. I checked it several times to make sure it continued to work, but I guess it expired anyway.

Just use the RPFs search function with the following string: RCNd7h0fsdE

The string is from the URL for the YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCNd7h0fsdE
(This is one way to check if a video has already been posted, assuming that it hasn't been uploaded to YouTube more than once.)

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Originally Posted by Occam's Banana

Well, damn. I checked it several times to make sure it continued to work, but I guess it expired anyway.

Just use the RPFs search function with the following string: RCNd7h0fsdE

The string is from the URL for the YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCNd7h0fsdE
(This is one way to check if a video has already been posted, assuming that it hasn't been uploaded to YouTube more than once.)

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Some memories back there, mate!

Hey, here's Eric July bringing it on topic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olwFvbrd7BU

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Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty

Some memories back there, mate!

Hey, here's Eric July bringing it on topic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olwFvbrd7BU

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That is a man with his finger on the pulse of events.

That video has been black-holed

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Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty

Hey, here's Eric July bringing it on topic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olwFvbrd7BU

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https://twitter.com/EricDJuly/status...55064437002241

Good thread, here's what I posted in response in the original thread this was dropped in:

No need to convince me here, but I'm also trying to start instituting this idea with family and friends.
Tucker Carlson (I do not watch Fox News, I only watched a snippit of his segment from last night) said America is made up of twins who can't be separated unless one kills the other. I'm not sure this is true and we can debate it until we're blue in the face but I do believe a few things in regard to secession and the U.S. today.

-We are not as homogenous as we used to be.
-We are not as religious/spiritual as we used to be.
-The common language of English has been de-prioritized on many fronts (I'm not arguing the merits of this, just stating something I believe has happened).
-We are a country of 330 million people ruled by two parties (really one in the grand scheme of things).
-The House of Representatives hasn't been appropriately expanded to accommodate population growth. (EDIT: just got to the argument in the video about this and it may now be a moot point)

-

Also, Eric July's post was magnifico. I love that we're calling D.C. and their monuments the cathedral because we are certainly worshipping a new god via the government. To see the "collective" response to Wednesday's events was chilling; the majority of people were acting like a sacred untouchable was defiled.
Shameful.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...65&oe=6026669D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXOEdvfMeIY

I posted this gem to Fedbook today. Only one or two "likes", but a couple of good discussions with both a conservative and a liberal. Neither think it's the route, but it's in their head now, anyway.

Like Tom, I do not understand the resistance to this very simple, moral idea. What has people so entranced with maintaining the US?

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Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty

Like Tom, I do not understand the resistance to this very simple, moral idea. What has people so entranced with maintaining the US?

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For some, it is a variation of the Sunken Cost Fallacy. For others, it is the fear and uncertainty associated with change. For others still, a desire to be associated with power and/or prestige. For the most dangerous, a desire to have more people around to fund their lifestyles without doing anything productive.

I want to kick this thread open to suggestions on HOW to make secession a REAL thing, and not just a floundering topic on a backwater subforum on a backwater website.

What can we DO, realistically, to nurture and grow the concept of secession into a legitimate movement, a zeitgeist? I've never been very active in political movements, other than Ron's 2012 run, and even then my involvement was limited to door knocking, setting up booths at locations and handing out info.

My rather meager efforts so far have been talking to people who are interested about politics about it, and posting about it on Fedbook. I actually think that FB is a decent way to spread an idea, when carefully crafted.

Anyway, let's hear it from you politically savvy types...

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Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXOEdvfMeIY

I posted this gem to Fedbook today. Only one or two "likes", but a couple of good discussions with both a conservative and a liberal. Neither think it's the route, but it's in their head now, anyway.

Like Tom, I do not understand the resistance to this very simple, moral idea. What has people so entranced with maintaining the US?

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Secession would give the opportunity to reorganize our country. God Bless America

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Originally Posted by Occam's Banana

I originally posted this reply in the other thread that spawned this one, but it goes here, too:



[^^^ bold emphasis added - OB]

And just to reinforce the point, "liberal democracy" is an oxymoron.

I don't think that there's anything particularly "liberal" (in the good, classical sense) about democracy. Not at all.

In fact, democracy - especially mass democracy - is one of the most fecund seeds of illiberal authoritarianism.

Politicians know this well and exploit it to the fullest. This is precisely why some of America's wisest "Founding Fathers" were so deeply suspicious and skeptical of democracy and only grudgingly acceded to it. Of course, the limitations they attempted to impose upon it have been eroded and destroyed (see the 17th Amendment for an example of this), and the few barriers and limitations to it that remain, such as the electoral college, have fallen into disrepute and seem increasingly likely to be removed altogether. (I've even seen the suggestion that the U.S. Senate should be apportioned by population, just like the U.S. House.)

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Dave's latest podcast, "Domestic Terrorism" (which I just posted in the Part of the Problem thread) speaks directly to this. It is becoming apparent that the Cathedral are scrambling right now to figure out how to maintain the facade of "democracy", while keeping that very thing from imploding their hegemony.

I'll post it here as it is relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0Kg0hlNVrY&t=21s

I think this is also relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Svmx5XrEZDc

Started going down some of Eric's playlists, and also came across this one. Not super necessary to watch, but something very on point with this thread that he begins to mention at 10:40 and on about if you're going to take it to their Cathedral, you have to prepare for such in the sense of you have to completely remove yourself (in this example, all of Parler's backend infrastructure, etc.) off of entities they control.

So again, it begs the question: if we're having to do this, what the hell are we doing and not pushing by the millions for secession across the board?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4pmLKiCdAE

All the liberal states would starve, they can't welfare their way out of having no food, well except for California I guess, unless North California secedes.

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Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty

I want to kick this thread open to suggestions on HOW to make secession a REAL thing, and not just a floundering topic on a backwater subforum on a backwater website.

What can we DO, realistically, to nurture and grow the concept of secession into a legitimate movement, a zeitgeist? I've never been very active in political movements, other than Ron's 2012 run, and even then my involvement was limited to door knocking, setting up booths at locations and handing out info.

My rather meager efforts so far have been talking to people who are interested about politics about it, and posting about it on Fedbook. I actually think that FB is a decent way to spread an idea, when carefully crafted.

Anyway, let's hear it from you politically savvy types...

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How to "sell" the idea or how to actually carry it out and back it up with teeth, that will be needed?

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Originally Posted by Anti Federalist

How to "sell" the idea or how to actually carry it out and back it up with teeth, that will be needed?

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Based on what I've seen from my anecdotal experience, we're desperately in need of spreading the idea at this point. It needs to be in the cultural conscience for it to even be considered a viable option, I'd think.

I've talked about it with family and friends, and I've made numerous posts about it on Fedbook that have generated some good conversations. The hope is that those people then take it as a talking point and discuss it with their family and friends.

But I doubt that approach is necessarily sufficient, so I'm calling on our forum members who have good experience in organizing and spreading ideas to see what they think.

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Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty

Based on what I've seen from my anecdotal experience, we're desperately in need of spreading the idea at this point. It needs to be in the cultural conscience for it to even be considered a viable option, I'd think.

I've talked about it with family and friends, and I've made numerous posts about it on Fedbook that have generated some good conversations. The hope is that those people then take it as a talking point and discuss it with their family and friends.

But I doubt that approach is necessarily sufficient, so I'm calling on our forum members who have good experience in organizing and spreading ideas to see what they think.

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Well, I'm not sure are many of those folks left.

But my own activism on this subject has taught me a couple of things, maybe these will help you:

1 - You will find some, or perhaps, many, who oppose the idea on visceral level, even though they are the some of the loudest critics of "The Swamp". Let's call these folks "American Greatness" people. They have a vision of the US as an international superpower, forever. The lines of the border and the goal of the nation are both fixed, forever, as far as they are concerned. What seems to have some impact is to approach from "you don't have to be huge in size to rule the world: example, England."

2 - Those who fear war and insurrection more than absolute tyranny. Let's call these folks "Peace at all costs" people. Best way to work into their mind is to present it as an ugly divorce. What would most likely lead to violence? A peaceful separation, or forcing two people who loathe each other to stay together until they are at each other's throats? Also, "think of the children!"

3 - Those who fear foreign invasion. Let's call these people The Fortress Americans". Speak to them of who so many other nations are relatively free and yet do not spend trillions on defense. We create artificial power vacuums and crises because of our meddling, peddling and shenanigans in global wars zones. Breaking up would reduce that influence and result in you being less likely to be invaded.

4 - And then there are those who oppose the idea because they oppose you. They will not allow a system where you and your ideas can flourish, because, at the end of the day, they despise you. We'll call these folks Marxists, Jacobins, and Bolsheviks. There is no talking to these people. They want you dead, and do not think for one minute they are going to just let you wander off to do as you please.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty

I want to kick this thread open to suggestions on HOW to make secession a REAL thing, and not just a floundering topic on a backwater subforum on a backwater website.

What can we DO, realistically, to nurture and grow the concept of secession into a legitimate movement, a zeitgeist? I've never been very active in political movements, other than Ron's 2012 run, and even then my involvement was limited to door knocking, setting up booths at locations and handing out info.

My rather meager efforts so far have been talking to people who are interested about politics about it, and posting about it on Fedbook. I actually think that FB is a decent way to spread an idea, when carefully crafted.

Anyway, let's hear it from you politically savvy types...

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Maybe a blimp?

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Originally Posted by TheTexan

Maybe a blimp?

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https://media.tenor.com/images/a9025...ed8c/tenor.gif

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Originally Posted by Anti Federalist

Well, I'm not sure are many of those folks left.

But my own activism on this subject has taught me a couple of things, maybe these will help you:

1 - You will find some, or perhaps, many, who oppose the idea on visceral level, even though they are the some of the loudest critics of "The Swamp". Let's call these folks "American Greatness" people. They have a vision of the US as an international superpower, forever. The lines of the border and the goal of the nation are both fixed, forever, as far as they are concerned. What seems to have some impact is to approach from "you don't have to be huge in size to rule the world: example, England."

2 - Those who fear war and insurrection more than absolute tyranny. Let's call these folks "Peace at all costs" people. Best way to work into their mind is to present it as an ugly divorce. What would most likely lead to violence? A peaceful separation, or forcing two people who loathe each other to stay together until they are at each other's throats? Also, "think of the children!"

3 - Those who fear foreign invasion. Let's call these people The Fortress Americans". Speak to them of who so many other nations are relatively free and yet do not spend trillions on defense. We create artificial power vacuums and crises because of our meddling, peddling and shenanigans in global wars zones. Breaking up would reduce that influence and result in you being less likely to be invaded.

4 - And then there are those who oppose the idea because they oppose you. They will not allow a system where you and your ideas can flourish, because, at the end of the day, they despise you. We'll call these folks Marxists, Jacobins, and Bolsheviks. There is no talking to these people. They want you dead, and do not think for one minute they are going to just let you wander off to do as you please.

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Now, what do we do to get the idea trending on this website?

https://twitter.com/michaelmalice/st...70873548853250

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Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty

What has people so entranced with maintaining the US?

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Most people like the status quo.

Maybe "Separate or free candy from Danke" would convey a more forceful message.

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Originally Posted by Occam's Banana

https://twitter.com/michaelmalice/st...70873548853250

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https://i.imgur.com/fJyJvK1.jpg