Gold: What is the end game?

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11-29-2012, 10:50 PM
ZzzImAsleep

Quote:

Originally Posted by oyarde

No , you will not use gold @ the grocery , I imagine, I also , doubt there will be much of anything @ the store ,for awhile , just my speculation.

Right, but people on here are saying that they are holding gold and silver to use to buy undervalued assets. If there is no food on the shelves, and no store will have a way of taking gold or silver coins then why would anyone take gold and silver as forms of payment for properties when they can't turn around and use it themselves? This is why I feel I haven't gotten a real answer on this subject yet: What is the end game for gold? It is not enough to say "just buy it".
11-29-2012, 11:28 PM
Steven Douglas

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZzzImAsleep

Right, but people on here are saying that they are holding gold and silver to use to buy undervalued assets.

Not me. That has NOTHING to do with why I am holding both. One of the main reasons I am holding both is to have possession of a known, proven currency at a time when there is some combination of a) little to no currency at all, and/or b) no other currency that anyone values.

Quote:

If there is no food on the shelves, and no store will have a way of taking gold or silver coins then why would anyone take gold and silver as forms of payment for properties when they can't turn around and use it themselves?

That is a different issue altogether, and while it can be argued against (even in the worst times of hyperinflation in the Weimar Republic, things of Real Exchange Value were traded for food), I accept the scenario of absolute shortages and mass starvation for the sake of discussion.

This goes back to the ad nauseam, "Yeah, can you eat your gold and silver? While you're busy stacking stacking gold and silver, I'll be busy eating!" The typical idiot like this, with his either/or mindset, does not consider that it is possible--and even highly desirable and wise--to store both, and that many gold and silver stackers are also preppers.

Quote:

This is why I feel I haven't gotten a real answer on this subject yet: What is the end game for gold? It is not enough to say "just buy it".

Now I'm not sure what you mean by "end game". Could you be more specific? Does it really mean "interim", as in, death-throes of the hyperinflated fiat currency as it comes to an end? Or does it mean end game, as in, AFTER the fiat currency has already died a horrible death, and is now like a Continental? No matter how bad it gets, nothing, including mass shortages of food, lasts forever. And while some things could get so bad that not even gold can get you the food you-should-have-stored, there has never been a time where the value of gold and silver went permanently into the toilet.
11-30-2012, 01:38 AM
idiom

Well the U.S. Sanctions are forcing Iran to sell Oil for Gold. So right now Gold is flowing into Iran like crazy.
11-30-2012, 03:15 PM
ZzzImAsleep

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Douglas

Now I'm not sure what you mean by "end game". Could you be more specific? Does it really mean "interim", as in, death-throes of the hyperinflated fiat currency as it comes to an end? Or does it mean end game, as in, AFTER the fiat currency has already died a horrible death, and is now like a Continental? No matter how bad it gets, nothing, including mass shortages of food, lasts forever. And while some things could get so bad that not even gold can get you the food you-should-have-stored, there has never been a time where the value of gold and silver went permanently into the toilet.

What I mean by end game is literally the end result of buying and storing gold. Because right now buying and storing huge amounts of gold seems as crazy as buying a car when you live somewhere with no roads. People exclaim that they are preparing for an economic collapse, with whatever that entails, (hyper-inflation, food shortages, etc) by buying gold. But currently there is no real system in place to accept gold as a form of exchange in a day to day environment, and more than likely even if the dollar collapses there will be a new paper (or maybe completely digital) currency that takes it place. So buying gold as a store of value seems unlikely to actually result in a gain for the person doing it.

To your point on storing food and non-perishables, I can see the end result there. You store food now and upkeep it in the long run in case there is ever a shortage.
11-30-2012, 03:46 PM
Steven Douglas

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZzzImAsleep

So buying gold as a store of value seems unlikely to actually result in a gain for the person doing it.

It's not supposed to result in a gain (even though it can). It's supposed to hedge against a deliberately inflicted exchange-value-of-currency-loss. And the "store of value" component is a separate issue from the medium of exchange mechanism convenience for day to day trade. Savings in PM's is always from budget surpluses, not day to day expenses. Obviously, it is not efficient to exchange currency for gold for day to day needs you have now.

Quote:

What I mean by end game is literally the end result of buying and storing gold. Because right now buying and storing huge amounts of gold seems as crazy as buying a car when you live somewhere with no roads.

It is crazy, if you're at a point where you have no surplus, but still wanted to prepare for a loss of value (or availability) of the currency. In such a case, storage of food, water, energy, etc., makes far more sense than gold, because these are all things that come from your existing budget, regardless of surpluses, that you will consume anyway. And just to acknowledge, you said as much:

"To your point on storing food and non-perishables, I can see the end result there. You store food now and upkeep it in the long run in case there is ever a shortage."

Quote:

People exclaim that they are preparing for an economic collapse, with whatever that entails, (hyper-inflation, food shortages, etc) by buying gold. But currently there is no real system in place to accept gold as a form of exchange in a day to day environment, and more than likely even if the dollar collapses there will be a new paper (or maybe completely digital) currency that takes it place.

Again, see the emphasis added. Buying gold and/or silver at this point (for those who actually have budget surpluses) is not about ease of exchange or rapid liquidity for purchasing day to day needs. It's about storing and preserving value in exchange only. The fact that it might be useful or valuable for direct barter (using that term loosely) is only an added plus.

If there's a dollar collapse, history proves and it is an extremely safe bet, that whatever the "new paper" (or whatever) that takes its place will be of even less value to begin with, as everyone takes a massive haircut. You don't get that new currency out of thin air. It's not dropped from Ben's helicopters. You can only get it by a) your connection to its supply spigots, or b) earning it from those fortunate enough to be close to the supply spigots, or c) trading in your old currency at some horrifically low exchange rate, or d) selling something of real value in exchange. And out of the last two, what do you think is more advantageous: selling something of real value, or selling the old worthless currency that has already lost its value and is about to go defunct?
12-01-2012, 11:29 AM
rhelwig

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZzzImAsleep

Right, but people on here are saying that they are holding gold and silver to use to buy undervalued assets. If there is no food on the shelves, and no store will have a way of taking gold or silver coins then why would anyone take gold and silver as forms of payment for properties when they can't turn around and use it themselves? This is why I feel I haven't gotten a real answer on this subject yet: What is the end game for gold? It is not enough to say "just buy it".

Shire Silver makes gold as usable in small quantities as silver. That's the end game, forgetting about the old-fashioned "coin" and moving to a more modern form of bullion.

We have gold cards with values of $4, $8, $34, and $40, making it easy to carry everyday trade amounts of gold in your wallet.

http://shiresilver.com/product/gold_twentieth_gram_card
http://shiresilver.com/product/gold_one_tenth_gram_card
http://shiresilver.com/product/gold_one_tenth_dinar
http://shiresilver.com/product/gold_half_gram_card
12-01-2012, 12:28 PM
NoOneButPaul

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZzzImAsleep

What I mean by end game is literally the end result of buying and storing gold. Because right now buying and storing huge amounts of gold seems as crazy as buying a car when you live somewhere with no roads. People exclaim that they are preparing for an economic collapse, with whatever that entails, (hyper-inflation, food shortages, etc) by buying gold. But currently there is no real system in place to accept gold as a form of exchange in a day to day environment, and more than likely even if the dollar collapses there will be a new paper (or maybe completely digital) currency that takes it place. So buying gold as a store of value seems unlikely to actually result in a gain for the person doing it.

To your point on storing food and non-perishables, I can see the end result there. You store food now and upkeep it in the long run in case there is ever a shortage.

I dont think we're going to see a full scale collapse... like Schiff said if inflation hits 40% is that still not a hyperinflation of sorts? I guess by calling it hyperinflation we open ourselves up to making it seem like we're talking about a full scale collapse.

I'm not. I don't think it's going to collapse I think it's going to push itself to the BRINK of collapse and that's when the end game of Gold comes in...

I would also point out that the largest central banks of the world are now net buyers of it for the first time in 48 years. It's clearly not a crazy stragedy if the most powerful countries and banks are starting to do it. What I contend is they are buying and hoarding it at their own suppressed price so gold can be revalued as real money after the paper era starts to crumble. The banks are setting themselves up to the be the saviors of the currency while also keeping their entire power structure intact. The fact the central banks can print currency and buy gold with it has to be the greatest conflict of interest in history- the more they print the more value they have. I think they're setting the stage up for a new gold standard but they're all trying to position themselves first before they do it- I also think this is exactly how they'll get us to accept a world wide currency- it will be backed with gold.

George Soros and Henry Paulson as well as numerous other millionaires are running towards gold because they expect the same thing.

Not a collapses, but a total devaluation of everything connected to debt/paper.

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