:sleeping:Quote:
Originally Posted by nikcers
:sleeping:Quote:
Originally Posted by nikcers
I dunno. Maybe you take heart in the fact that there are people like me who back in 2000 supported gun control and now are totally against gun control and you try to figure out what changed our minds in the hopes that it might work with other people?Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti Federalist
O'Bummer was NOT better than Trump on guns, that is a myth.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdrake
Polls always skew left (and that one is probably total hogwash) and many Republicans are far from perfect but bringing in millions mor people who have no cultural understanding of liberty and who are far more anti-liberty won't help.
That's a good plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdrake
But it won't work if you allow in new anti-liberty people faster than you can convert people.
OK Adolf.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikcers
See what I did there?
Yes, the msm censored the Republican who was against building a wall, and four years later went out of their way to anti-censor the Republican who was for a wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikcers
https://media.giphy.com/media/nF4r0o4R2mNa/giphy.gif
Dunning-KrugerQuote:
Originally Posted by acptulsa
It's a fact that based on actual policies enacted Obama was better than Trump. That is a 100% fact. You know it. You don't want to admit it but you know it is true which is why you won't directly address what I said. Trump is better when it comes to rhetoric but much worse than Obama on what he actually did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordsmyth
LOL. Polls that support your POV are great and can't be disputed and polls that don't support your POV are hogwash. Got it.Quote:
Polls always skew left (and that one is probably total hogwash) and many Republicans are far from perfect but bringing in millions mor people who have no cultural understanding of liberty and who are far more anti-liberty won't help.
WRONG.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdrake
O'Bummer enacted much worse policies.
lol are you and Swordy "Ron is Wrong" Smyth comparing notes?Quote:
Originally Posted by nikcers
Like letting people carry guns into national forests? Like letting people take guns on Amtrack? (Both Obama) Or like bumpfire stock bans? Oops...that's Trump.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordsmyth
Like fast and furious and using the VA to take guns from vets and revoking FFLs right and left for trivial errors and buying up all the ammunition for federal departments that had no use for it and a zillion other attacks on guns and gun owners.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdrake
Ron still says Saudis took down the buildings with airliners as proof we should bring the troops home from Saudi Barbaria.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet
He uses globalist talking points when it suits his purposes.
Fast and furious, while a crime, did not affect the second amendment and was a continuation of a Bush policy. The "using the VA to take guns from vets" argument was Obama using mental health records for background checks, something that Trump has now pushed for in spades and expanded even further. People were still able to by ammo. Where can you buy a bumpfire stock? Oh yeah, you can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordsmyth
There's no denying jmdrake is right on this one.
Trump banned a previously legal firearm accessory by executive fiat, without compensation for the owners of said previously legal property.
Horrible precedent set all around.
Fast and Furious was intended to get people to support gun laws by deliberately giving guns to criminals and Trump put an end to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdrake
You didn't even respond to the point about FFls.
The VA was under O'Bummer staffed by people who were diagnosing trumped up mental problems to take guns away from vets and Trump put an end to that .
The Bumpstock thing is bad but it doesn't even come close to O'Bummer's policies, many of which I haven't even mentioned.
I won't and never have denied that it was horrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti Federalist
But I emphatically deny that O'Bummer was better.
O-Bomb-Ya talked a big game but did almost nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordsmyth
Seriously, what major piece of gun control came out of the FedGov under O-Bomb-Ya's reign?
That's not snark...I can't think of anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdrake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti Federalist
Just the UN treaty O'Bummer signed and Trump unsigned makes O'Bummer far worse.
And then there are many little things like this:
Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...mental-n727221
And many more.
Yes, that was bad, but it was also smoke and mirrors, as the Senate had not ratified that treaty and had no plans to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordsmyth
What I'm getting is this:
After Sandy Hook for instance, Obama had the political capital and could have gotten significant gun control, had he just decided to take up the sword.
He didn't.
So much the better of course, but why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdrake
On Friday, July 22, just as members of his party were gathering in Philadelphia to coronate Hillary Clinton as their presidential nominee, the Obama Administration once again released a sweeping gun control measure by executive fiat. This time the bad news came via the U.S. State Department’s Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC), which is primarily responsible for administering the Arms Export Control Act (AECA) and its implementing rules, the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR). The upshot is that DDTC is labeling commercial gunsmiths as “manufacturers” for performing relatively simple work such as threading a barrel or fabricating a small custom part for an older firearm. Under the AECA, “manufacturers” are required to register with DDTC at significant expense or risk onerous criminal penalties.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti Federalist
As with prior executive actions on guns, the administration released its dictate suddenly and without advance warning to or prior input from affected businesses, completely bypassing the normal formalities associated with a significant rulemaking. The guidance is also likely to result in more confusion than clarity and may significantly chill heretofore legal conduct associated with gunsmithing.
By way of background, the AECA and ITAR concern rules by which military materiel is exported from, and imported to, the United States. The so-called “defense articles” governed by the AECA/ITAR are compiled in what is known as the U.S. Munitions List and include some, but not all, firearms and ammunition, as well as their parts and components. Thus, for purposes of the regime, a spring or floorplate from the magazine of a controlled firearm is subject to the same regulatory framework as the firearm itself.
The AECA/ITAR require anybody who engages in the business of “manufacturing” a defense article to register with DDTC and pay a registration fee that for new applicants is currently $2,250 per year. These requirements apply, even if the business does not, and does not intend to, export any defense article. Moreover, under ITAR, “only one occasion of manufacturing … a defense article” is necessary for a commercial entity to be considered “engaged in the business” and therefore subject to the regime’s requirements.
More at: https://www.nraila.org/articles/2016...ve-gun-control
The National Rifle Association on Wednesday filed a lawsuit challenging a new federal regulation requiring gun merchants along the border with Mexico to report bulk sales of certain semiautomatic rifles, contending that the Obama administration exceeded its powers by imposing the rule last month without Congressional permission.
https://www.nraila.org/articles/2011...gun-sales-rule
NRA: Gun blogs, videos, web forums threatened by new Obama regulation
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...ama-regulation
When you think of the Obama administration's stalled threat to ban popular rifle ammunition under the rubric of prohibited "armor-piercing" handgun ammunition, think of the movie "The Terminator," and Arnold Schwarzenegger’s famous line—"I'll be baaaack."
Because they will be back.
After the massive February and early March outcry from gun owners, led by National Rifle Association members and bipartisan majority opposition in both houses of Congress, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) delayed its ban on M855 5.56 mm ball rifle ammo.
News media headlines in coverage of the stand-down used words like “drops,” “scraps,” “abandons” and “pulls,” giving the impression that the ban is dead. But nothing could be further from the truth.
In suddenly halting this latest assault on gun owners, BATFE used an ominous phrase, “at this time.” Additionally, the agency said the action “deserves further study.”
Bank on this—“further study” will almost certainly result in even harsher action in the future.
In fact, a renewed attack on common AR-15 ammunition came just two days after the announced stand-down. On March 12, BATFE Director B. Todd Jones told a Senate Appropriations Committee that he considers all 5.56 ammo to be a threat to law enforcement officers. That same day, a draft of a letter to BATFE from a group of congressional Democrats was made public that called on BATFE to quickly revive plans to ban M855 ammo.
The fraudulent nature of BATFE’s outside-federal-law process, which ignored the Administrative Procedures Act—mandatory for such regulation changes—was proven in the March 10 stand-down announcement referring to the 80,000-plus letters and emails of opposition as “informal comments.” Yet there was nothing “informal” about the impending bullet ban.
https://www.nraila.org/articles/2015...o-ban-all-ammo
Obama Administration Bans Import of Popular Russian Firearms
https://www.nraila.org/articles/2014...ssian-firearms
Recently, a federal district court in Washington, D.C. issued a ruling upholding an Obama administration policy that requires federally licensed firearms retailers in states bordering Mexico to report multiple sales of semi-automatic rifles. The case was brought by two NRA-backed firearm retailers and by the National Shooting Sports Foundation acting on behalf of its affected members. Plaintiffs have already filed an appeal—but while we await the outcome, your help is urgently needed in seeking congressional action to end this illegal policy.
Devised by Attorney General Eric Holder’s Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the plan requires all of the 8,700 firearm dealers in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas to report all sales of two or more semi-automatic rifles within five consecutive business days, if the rifles are larger than .22 caliber and use detachable magazines.
In July 2011, the Justice Department announced that it would proceed with the controversial reporting procedure. During consideration of the FY 2012 Commerce, Justice, Science Appropriations bill, pro-gun U.S. Rep. Denny Rehberg (R-Mont.) offered an amendment in committee to prohibit the use of funds for the unauthorized reporting plan and the amendment was passed by a vote of 25-16. Unfortunately, the Rehberg amendment did not make it through the appropriations process.
Much has transpired since then regarding BATFEs’ failed “Operation Fast and Furious,” and evidence is now clear that “Fast and Furious” was used as justification to force the multiple sales reporting requirement.
In early December 2011, CBS News reported that BATFE “discussed using their covert operation “Fast and Furious” to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.” In particular, agency officials wanted guns to fall into Mexican drug cartel hands and be traced back to gun dealers in the U.S. to make a case for requiring the multiple sales reporting.
According to CBS, “Emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called Demand Letter 3. That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or ‘long guns.’”
https://www.nraila.org/articles/2012...tration-scheme
There was a lot more too, including trying to get banks to unperson gun companies and buyers by pressuring them through the Treasury department and trying to mandate background checks at gunshows by executive order.
See post #231Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti Federalist
He did a lot of things and tried to do many more but was stopped.
Obama blamed mass shootings on guns and convinced a lot of people that guns were the the problem. His rhetoric has caused so much division in the country and has convinced some liberals that mandatory buybacks is appropriate. He has done more damage with his rhetoric since he has inspired people to be against RKBAQuote:
Originally Posted by jmdrake
LOL. Fast and furious was ended prior to Trump becoming president because it became public knowledge! And I see you're ignoring the fact that gunwalking was started by the Bush administration and only continued by Obama. Also your claim about the intent is like democrats claiming Trump intended to derail Biden as a political rival. It's possibly true and possibly false. The stated intent of gunwalking as given by Republican and Democratic administrations who did it was as a sting operation. Not the same as a direct attack on the 2nd amendment such as an assault weapons ban or a bumpfire stock ban. Not even close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordsmyth
That is not an official policy position. No long term effect on the 2nd amendment the way the bumpfire stock ban is. No dangerous precedent. Next?Quote:
You didn't even respond to the point about FFls.
No official policy position. No long term effect on the 2nd amendment like the bumpfire stock ban. Not nearly as bad as the Orange man's new thought crimes division. Next?Quote:
The VA was under O'Bummer staffed by people who were diagnosing trumped up mental problems to take guns away from vets and Trump put an end to that .
The Bumpstock thing is bad but it doesn't even come close to O'Bummer's policies, many of which I haven't even mentioned.
You haven't been actually following the conversation have you? From the jump I said Obama's rhetoric was worse but Trump's actual policies were worse. Next?Quote:
Originally Posted by nikcers
https://warisboring.com/trump-expand...rifle-imports/
Trump Expands What Obama Started—Banning Russian Rifle Imports
Treasury Department sanctions maker of Vepr rifles
Trump Expands What Obama Started—Banning Russian Rifle Imports
WIB LAND June 24, 2017 Robert Beckhusen
guns46 Russia136
In the world of 7.62-millimeter rifles, Russian-made AKs and Veprs in particular—a group of AK-style variants produced by gunmaker Molot—are highly prized for their quality, durability and killer cool.
Veprs became even more coveted in 2014, when the Obama administration imposed sanctions on competitor Kalashnikov Concern following the Russian invasion and annexation of Crimea, halting that company’s exports to the United States.
Molot’s guns, however, remained legal to import. A buying frenzy nevertheless made them harder to come by, raising prices as other sources of Russian-made rifles dried up. Then three years later, the hammer of the U.S. government finally landed on Molot.
ADVERTISING
On June 20, 2017, the U.S. Treasury Department added Molot to its list of Ukraine-related sanctions “for operating in the arms or related material sector of the Russian Federation and for acting or purporting to act for on behalf of, directly or indirectly, Kalashnikov Concern,” the Treasury Department said in a statement.
The U.S. government alleges that Kalashnikov advised a foreign company in 2016 to use then-unsanctioned Molot “to falsify invoices” to bypass U.S. and E.U. sanctions.
What’s absolutely clear—the move will spike demand for the remaining Vepr rifles in America. The sanctions do not, of course, mean existing Veprs in the United States are now illegal, only that American buyers can’t legally import any more.
Curiously, the decision is a Trump-era expansion of an Obama-era policy—which the gun lobby once rhetorically blasted.
“These latest sanctions will no doubt engender the idea among some that the Treasury Department is using a geopolitical crisis as a convenient excuse to advance the president’s domestic anti-gun agenda,” the National Rifle Association and its lobbying body, the Institute for Legislative Action, stated in 2014.
At left, a man firing a Vepr rifle with a forward-mounted scout scope. Davidwhitewolf photos via Flickr
The gun lobby didn’t end there. In December 2015, the NRA sent a delegation to Russia and met with deputy prime minister Dmitry Rogozin, Russia’s defense industry chief whom the Obama administration had also slapped with sanctions. It’s important to note that merely talking to a sanctioned individual—I’ve done so myself in the course of reporting—is not illegal.
Rogozin is also chairman of the Russian Shooting Federation, and once called on the actor Steven Seagal to lobby for looser restrictions on Russian arms imports into the United States.
The NRA went on to spend more than $30 million supporting Trump in the 2016 presidential campaign. But the gun lobby has been quiet after the Trump administration’s sanctions on Molot.
Gun owners took notice. “The end result is that we’ll soon see the flow of Molot-made Veprs slow to a trickle and then stop completely,” the blog Truth About Guns wrote.
FIME Group, a U.S. distributor of Molot’s wares, demurred after the ban. “As the exclusive importer of Molot products, we are in the process of reviewing the implications of the sanctions before we are able to make any additional announcements,” the company stated.
Semi-automatic Vepr rifles have a reputation for accuracy and reliability, and often sell for higher prices than comparable AK-style weapons. Despite the outward appearance, they are technically based on the RPK light machine gun and share the RPK’s heavier barrel and reinforced receiver.
For more information on the Vepr, here’s a detailed video from Mishaco, a YouTuber who reviews a fairly enormous amount of military-style weapons:
Refined Russian tooling and long-standing production methods contribute to the rifle’s high quality. The made-in-Russia character further bring with it a powerful cultural cachet—like French wine or Italian haute couture.
The Vepr is an “energizer-freaking bunny,” enthused Rob Ski in a YouTube video published by the AK Operators Union Local 47-74, a popular enthusiast group for AK-type rifles. On Facebook, Ski reacted to the Molot import ban, “This really is blow to AK lovers in USA…”
The import ban now leaves the market to American-made AK-type rifles, such as those manufactured by Century Arms and Palmetto State Armory, Romanian WASR-10s and sturdy Serbian NPAPs, among others.
Kalashnikov USA, an American rifle and shotgun manufacturer, severed ties with Kalashnikov Concern in 2014.
Next?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordsmyth
Try reading the whole post I posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdrake
I don't like that Trump put sanctions on Russian gun imports but it doesn't compare to the rest of what I posted.
And one of the things I posted shows that they discussed using Fast and Furious to get gun control.
I haven't even done an exhaustive search for all of O'Bummer's anti-gun actions either, Trump isn't even close.
If you're going to hijack the thread to talk about gun control, talk about gun control. Don't then change the subject to Fast and Furious being worse than Trumpian gun control.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordsmyth
And don't try to play the stupid card and pretend you think Fast and Furious is gun control, because you already admitted it is not.
Try to have a conversation and get buried under a bunch of propaganda techniques.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordsmyth
You post some pretty damned smug stuff for someone who intimates that the VA engages in actual firearm confiscation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordsmyth
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Swordsmyth
So in other words the ban on the import of Russian firearms is a big deal....until you find out that Trump did expanded it. LOL. And if you read the entire post I just gave you, you would know that the issue wasn't the 2nd amendment. The issue was sanctions against Russia. I disagree with those sanctions mind you, but this isn't even a second amendment issue.Quote:
I don't like that Trump put sanctions on Russian gun imports but it doesn't compare to the rest of what I posted.
I already address Fast and Furious when I said Fast and furious, while a crime, did not affect the second amendment and was a continuation of a Bush policy. Also You WRONGLY stated that Trump ended F&F when in fact it was ended while Obama was still president!Quote:
And one of the things I posted shows that they discussed using Fast and Furious to get gun control.
I'm sure you can cherry pick nonsense all day. But clearly you haven't even begun to scratch the surface on Trump's anti-gun policies or else you wouldn't have posted about Obama banning Russian made weapons as "proof" that Obama was worse on guns than Trump when Trump EXPANDED the program!Quote:
I haven't even done an exhaustive search for all of O'Bummer's anti-gun actions either, Trump isn't even close.
And to @Anti Federalist ^this is part of what's wrong with the messaging. When people see transparent attempts to gloss over abuses by Trump they turn around and say "You just don't like Obama because he's black and a democrat." And I look at that witch Dana Loesch of the NRA. She should have stood up for Philando Castille. Remember, the black man that got murdered in cold blood by a hispanic police officer after he told the officer he a concealed carry permit? The same officer who's partner testified that he wasn't in fear of his life? That was a perfect time for the NRA to show they cared about ALL gun owners. But instead Dana went into "blue lives matter/refer madness" mode. The murdering officer in question got paid $48,000. Tell me, how do I sell that to my community?
Speaking of the NRA, they debunked the whole "ammo buy" conspiracy theory. I don't trust the NRA but a broken clock is right twice a day.
https://www.nraila.org/articles/2012...buy-ammunition
After receiving numerous questions from his constituents regarding the contract, pro-Second Amendment U.S. Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-Ga.) and his staff set out in search of the truth. In a press release, Rep. Westmoreland's office explains:
If you take the number of agencies that will be using this ammunition – CBP, Citizenship and Immigration Services, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), ICE, the U.S. Secret Service, Transportation Security Administration, the DHS police force, and all the guards that protect the various buildings these agencies are housed in, and spread that out over 5 years, you start to see that 450 million rounds really isn't that large of an order. Especially considering it is used for training purposes like firing range and live fire exercises, on-the-job use (though that is very limited), and to shore up their supplies. In fact, there are 65,000 – 70,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS who would be covered under this … ammunition contract. If DHS were to purchase all 450 million rounds over 5 years, then that would equate to only about 1,384 rounds of ammo per year per law enforcement [officer] … assuming the lower estimate of only 65,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS. Considering those agents go through training exercises several times per year, that is not a lot of ammunition.
I will give the Cliffs Notes of what Republican Pro Second Amendment Congressman Westmoreland said.
Y'all already know we have a giant unconstitutional Department Of Homeland Insecurity that I fully support as it was created under REPUBLICAN president Bush. And all those officers need their training bullets. Shut up mundane!
Seriously NOBODY LOOKED INTO WHAT DHS WAS DOING UNTIL OBAMA BECAME PRESIDENT! You had Jason Chaffitz asking "Why is DHS buying MRAPS?" The obvious answer? Because under the previous president they were buying MRAPS!
You know what sells (some) minorities of freedom? Ron Paul admitting that, yes, the war on drugs is racist against blacks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SOAiLvdfl8
You know what doesn't sell? Token blacks like Candace Owens saying that police brutality is a myth and falsely claiming that she never heard of racism until Obama became president all the while ignoring her own race baiting past!
https://youtu.be/3TklAPOMclk
I can sell Ron Paul. I can sell Colin Noir (though I wish he would leave the NRA for the GOA). I can't sell clowns like Candace Owens ore people who are obviously mentally disturbed like Kanye West. And I say that as someone who likes Kanye and appreciates what he did to help push the First Step Act.
And @dannno, I know you love Candace Owens, but she is a complete fraud.
Speaking of Colin Noir, he's got a lot of great 2nd Amendment content. You should follow him if you haven't already.
https://youtu.be/LiuqkEag57Y
https://youtu.be/jX2QbrRFZ-A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIj_se62hPI
Lots of great info; sorry I'm outta rep.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdrake