I know it trashes your credit score, but I'm in a house and don't care much about credit score.
It would be tough if I had to finance a car, but anything else?
Can they sue or garnish wages?
I know it trashes your credit score, but I'm in a house and don't care much about credit score.
It would be tough if I had to finance a car, but anything else?
Can they sue or garnish wages?
First, lots of phone calls from collection agencies. And I mean LOTS. First one agency, then when they give up, another.
Next, threatening letters from collection agencies.
If the amount is high enough, they can sue. Sometimes in small claims, sometimes not. If they win, the judge can require you to pay. I've never heard of wages being garnished for credit card debt, but I suppose it might be possible in some states.
I believe some cards have terms that allow repossession of things you bought with the card if you don't pay, but most are unsecured.
Tip: if you ever decide to pay after a long period of not paying, never pay the collection agency. Only pay the original owner of the debt, even if they have subsequently sold it to others for collection. Much less damage to your credit score that way, and the collection agencies don't get as much of a cut, if any.
I wonder if you can fake death?
gotta be a black market for it.......
I have a friend who moved from one state to another. When his old state sent him a tax return at his new address, he wrote "DECEASED, RETURN TO SENDER" on the unopened envelope, dropped it in a mailbox, and never heard from them again.
Not that I would recommend such a thing....
As someone who has worked in collections, the only real consequence is a ding to your credit score as long as you don't owe an outrageous amount (like $10,000 or something).
Don't ignore a subpoena to appear or you can be held in contempt = jail; expect hand delivery by a cop; best not to be there; or not answer the door anyway, best to inform anyone you live with not to sign for you. Just because you appear does not mean you have to agree or do; best not to legally "know" to be there to begin with.
Dump your email, new account. Change your phone #, pay for unlisted, have new account in a roomates/family member name. Dump email and phone again in 12 months if needed; unlikely. Your parents, family, or other contacts may be subject to collection calls depending upon what info you have given the company. Best to pay for their number change and/or electronic call blocking to maintain civility.
Sue or garnish unlikely unless you owe the feds or have obvious ability to pay; ie 6 figure salary. Empty bank accounts preemptively and move to mason jars in the dirt and money orders. Max out, cash out on remaining line of credit could be considered fraud; don't do it. Not paying is NOT lying, cheating, or stealing. Continuing to rack up debt after making internet declaration that you have the INTENTION to not pay = crime. 7-10 years is all most reporting agencies keep records on unsecured, non-federal debt; that doesn't mean you won't die with court ordered liens, but it doesn't mean you will either.
Also, if you have any debts that you intend to keep paying, you may be forced into default rates because of fine print terms, even if you pay on those debts as promised; consult your lender behind closed doors. Filling your propane, starting an electric account, internet/cable/phone service, other services, etc. may require significant down payment after cc default. Renting anything, such as home, storage, equipment, trucks, cars, home depot tool rental, etc. will require a cc to secure; you'll be SOL.
There may also be emotional baggage / cognitive dissonance / family&friend shame to deal with. You may also have to carry large sums of cash in your pocket, at times, to get shit done; but that said... you'll often get a "cash deal" and preferential treatment.
fake death = bad idea; keywords: fake death fraud
Yes they can sue you. Yes the judge can decide to garnish your wages.
They most likely won't sue unless it's a significant amount of money and they feel that they have a good chance of getting it from you.
I recently spoke to a bankruptcy attorney about this. I was shocked to hear her say that letting them charge off is a viable plan. Bankruptcy costs money, impossible if you don't have liquidity. She poo-pooed the fear of being sued for the balances.
Unless your balances are high, you'll be number 758,283 in line for a company to sue to collect. After years of haggling for lower payments and "hardship" arrangements, I'm comfortable with charge-offs and ignoring the calls. I'd rather keep my house payment up to date, secure the things I have and save up cash for an inexpensive car next time. Chase, BofA and Cap1 convinced me to use Greenspan's easy money to spend, and I've paid it back in interest many times. I consider myself to have been educated by the process and leave it at that.
If you don't have a home, or valuable assets; file a chapter 7 bankruptcy... will cost you $315.00 to file it in Federal Court ... you have to fill out some schedules about assets, debts etc... you're allowed to keep so many thousands of dollars in stuff (exemptions); but all your debts are wiped out.
With a Chapter 13, depending on income a payment plan is established based on a certain percent of your earnings.. so not much in earnings; not much in your monthly payment to the creditors. After 60 months (I believe) of paying what you can afford; the debts are all forgiven.
They'll harass you for years but that's about it. My advise would be to just work out a settlement. Call em up, tell them your going to stop paying, and offer them 10% right now to pay off the entire balance. They'll probably take it.
If you're prepared you can turn those collection calls into money. Few if any collection agencies follow the law, and by documenting breaches of legal obligation you can sue them for some pretty decent money. I've heard some people actually make a living this way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtomator
If that doesn't work, try crying and blubbering every time you get a collections call, and then start hitting up the collections people for small "pity" loans. ;)
1) Credit reports will be completely trashed for at least 7 years, maybe longer if the furnishers of the data break federal law
2) Massive amounts of harrassing phone calls and letters, maybe even in person visits to your home
3) Can be sued by original creditor but this rarely happens, debt is usually sold to collection agencies/junk debt buyers for pennies on the dollar owed
4) More likely to be sued by the collection agency/junk debt buyer, and they often don't properly serve you notice so you get a judgment against you without your knowledge and that comes back to haunt you through:
5) Wages garnished, bank accounts seized due to court judgment that you weren't served with
6) You will have difficulty buying a car, renting a home, getting jobs, or anything else that may require a credit check. Life circumstances change so what you may not care about today could be a big problem later.
That, or just have some fun with it. I've had quite a few collectors hang up on me. I've read of someone in California making a living off of suing spam senders. He's made like two million dollars just off of settlements in the last five years.Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtomator
To all that said in my last post I add,
1st and foremost, feed you and yours.
This an engineered QE infinity recession.
Don't you ever feel sorry for a bank,
and take a look at crypto currency.
if it's not a huge amount they'll simply try to harass you into paying it
if it's enough money they'll sell it to a lawyer who will sue you for it
however, obtaining a judgment and actually being able to collect it are two distinct things
you can wait it out 10 years or declare bankruptcy as a means of discharging it - eventually it will be written off and that will be that
if you intend not to pay, don't communicate with any collection agencies, that will reset the clock on the account
Yes, they can sue and get a judgement. Then they can get an order to garnish wages. They can also seize bank accounts and put liens on property. As long as the judgements are renewed, they stay outstanding - potentially forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesiv1
That's not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtomator
Mayne it's something specific to Michigan, but getting sued for the outstanding balances is the norm here.Quote:
Originally Posted by undergroundrr
I would smoke a big joint, have a glass of 100 proof bourbon , then figure out how to pay it off.Be done w/ it forever, or just do what I did and use Dankes instead :) hopefully he will not notice the buffet @ the casino or will just think it was him , lol
Bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by presence
If you bought a good/service and used a credit card to pay for it, you owe the money. It was your choice to spend the money and it is theft to not pay it back. You can sugarcoat it, but that is the fact of the matter.
I thought libertarians believed in personal responsibility for their own actions?
Yeah, really ,while it is fun to imagine alternatives, ya gotta pay it .Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyEagle
it is the right thing to do .
You can pay many federal and state taxes with a credit card. Who would you rather owe money too? Sweet enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyEagle
You thought libertarians were a hive mind? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyEagle
That might have been true before TARP.Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyEagle
I had two parking tickets (that I didn't get) while in MD. When I finally got notice, the total was over $700--so I looked it up and they can't legally take you to court after 3 years, so I just waited it out. Probably can't go back to Baltimore in a car with my plates on it though.Quote:
Originally Posted by angelatc
Point being, I think every state has a different length of time for how long creditors can take you to court. I think PA was 4 years. (It also depends on the type of debt, of course--and they can still pursue the debt.)
Look up "statute of limitations debt + your state"
This seems to be a decent article:
Quote:
When must debt collectors give up?
By Steve Bucci • Bankrate.com
Dear Debt Adviser,
I have a debt that's expected to be charged off and forgiven by my creditor. But what happens to third-party debt collectors? Can they still pursue me if the debt's inside the statute of limitations? And what kind of taxes must I pay for that forgiven debt?
-- Sarah
Dear Sarah,
This a great question that illustrates what can happen to an old debt. It raises four key issues that need some attention: charge-offs, statutes of limitations, debt forgiveness and credit reporting. Let's touch on each briefly.
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Charge-offs: When a debt is charged off by a creditor, it means the creditor doesn't expect that money to come back. Your debt hasn't been forgiven yet, however. It's still owed and considered collectible.
Statutes of limitations: The debt also doesn't disappear after the statute of limitations in your state. The only difference is that creditors can't take you to court. Creditors can ask for the money over the phone or in writing, but they can't sue for it.
Debt forgiveness: When a debt is forgiven (this is sometimes part of a settlement process), the creditor will send a 1099-C cancellation of debt tax form to the debtor and the Internal Revenue Service. The IRS requires that when a debt of more than $600 is forgiven, the amount forgiven should be considered income to the debtor.
Credit reporting: None of the above makes a difference on your credit report. Whether your debt is charged off, forgiven, or beyond the statute of limitations, it still gets reported and affects your credit and score for seven years. Your creditors may forgive, but the bureaus don't forget.
So, if a 1099-C shows up in your mailbox, your creditor has forgiven the debt, and you shouldn't have to worry about debt collectors. But make sure you report the forgiven debt to the IRS. The IRS is good at tracking income tax returns that should include canceled debt as income. If you are flagged as receiving a 1099-C but do not include it on your tax return, you could face a tax bill plus penalties and interest.
There are some exceptions. If the debt was forgiven in bankruptcy, or if you were insolvent (owe more than you own in assets) at the time the debt was forgiven, you could qualify for an exemption. You would need to file IRS Form 982 with your tax return if one of the exemptions applies to you.
If you plan to file Form 982, you should seriously consider running it by a tax professional. The code is rarely clear, and I want you to be sure that you actually qualify for the exemption. You don't want to owe the IRS, ever. They are much less forgiving than regular creditors.
Because of the confusion old debts cause, let me reiterate that just because a debt is charged off by your creditor does not mean that the debt is forgiven. Most creditors pursue old debts until they exhaust all their legal options. As long as the statute of limitations has not expired, it is likely you will be contacted by debt collectors. You will need to come up with a plan to pay what you owe, or you could wind up in court.
Finally, keep copies of your 1099-C and your tax return just in case you need to show proof of your forgiven debt to an errant debt collector.
Good luck!
Ask the adviser
To ask a question of the Debt Adviser, go to the "Ask the Experts" page and select "Debt" as the topic. Read more Debt Adviser columns and more stories about debt management.
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BS back at you.Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyEagle
Failure to fulfill one's end of a contract if one had full honest intention of fulfilling it originally is not theft. Sure "your legal person" still "owes the money" but that doesn't mean when your "flesh and bones self" continues to feed your "flesh and bones family" before one pays the civil debts of your "legal person" is "theft". You're way out in the world of debtors prison if you believe such is a criminal theft.
However, borrowing money with the FRAUDULENT INTENTION of not paying it back IS theft, but one can certainly sleep in good conscience knowing there is no fraud or crime in failing to be able to pay your debts due to misfortune. CC companies enter CIVIL contracts with known risks. Failure of the borrower to maintain liquidity is a risk they take.
Never feel sorry for fictitious, state incorporated, bailout pumped, "too big to fail" legalized entity, fractional-reserve, multinational, 80 pages of fine print that means anything they want it to mean, fiat bank.
F them.
My advice if you are suffering from way of life endangering financial misfortune and are already in a "default rate" hole you'll never buy your way out of...
Feed your family 1st.
Stabilize yourself in cash, crypto, tangibles that cannot be seized, and precious metals 2nd.
Manage your cashflow wisely and ditch your unneeded expenses; read netflix, home shopping network habit, and ice cream night.
Get yourself 3 months ahead on life expenses; food, rent, utitilities.
Get a beater vehicle, paid cash in your name.
From that stable ground; if it takes a few months or a few years...
Concern yourself with your credit last; if need be don't bother with it until you can afford a lawyer.
Realize in the mean time there will be some rough repercussions... but nothing that hard work, humility, and cash can't get you out of.
If you owe $2500 a month in unsecured debt and $1000 a month to your landlord and the grocery store, but you just took a pay cut from 70K a year to 18K... Don't think you're a hero giving that grocery and roof money to Visa while your kids go hungry.
Just because your legal person owes a debt
doesn't mean your living self
is a quasi chattel slave in
peonage
to that debt.
We just went through a big DMV thing. I am thinking about posting a follow-up, but on the off chance that anybody actually reads RSE, I'm afraid that I'll get a DMV worker in trouble, and screw up the insurance we managed to fanagle.Quote:
Originally Posted by amy31416
Here in MIchigan, I had a spat with with a dentist. Our insurance was changed in the middle of some dental work, and the max they would spend in a year got reset, in my favor. Except that I figured it was a mistake, and I told them I couldn't afford it. They assured me they had checked and double checked, and everything would be paid for.
So, four months later, I get a bill. The insurance company had paid, but then asked for the money back. I told them all to take a hike, especially since DH had lost his job and had a stroke in the interim. It was $800 or so, so I figured that it would show up on a credit report for a few years then go away. But they sued me. I found out that judgements can stay outstanding forever. THey're good for 10 years, but the lawyers can renew them forever.
Same thing with a credit card I got into a pissing match with. Long story there, but they also sued me for the disputed balance.
I'm not used to just walking away from bills I owe, but I don't hesitate to walk away from bullshit. In Indiana, I had delivered my son via C-Section. The pediatrician charged me for coming to see the baby every day he was in there, even though he was fine, and if I had delivered vaginally we would have been home by them. I didn't ask her to check him, nobody said he could go home with the father, they just billed me. ANd the insurance wouldn't cover it, so I said screw that, too.
They didn't sue me. It sat on my credit report for 7 years, then went away. That's why I was wondering if this "sue" thing is somehow specific to Michigan.
Yeah in Michigan just expect to get served and then a default judgement even if you try to fight it. They can garnish checking accounts with judgement in hand. As a business owner I've gotten judgements against people who didn't pay, it's a simple enough filing. Garnishing a checking account is a little tricky because you can pay a fee and hit whatever is in a specific account at that time. If there isn't anything there you can pay and try again but it's a per instant attempt and not like a running draw. So a little bit of a gamble.Quote:
Originally Posted by angelatc
Well, for one, not all credit card issuers were beneficiaries of TARP and two, 2 wrongs do not make a right.Quote:
Originally Posted by angelatc
Maybe it is. The MD collection agency for the City of Baltimore would send notices (that were obviously "fake") to try to lead me to believe that they were going to sue. A few angry phone messages threatening to sue--but I was out of state, knew it wasn't enough $$ for them to pursue it and the fake lawyer stationery was laughable. Plus, it was the city of Baltimore, and I never got anything in the mail before I left about unpaid tickets, which I would have paid if the fine was reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by angelatc
It looks like Michigan has a 6 year statute of limitations, but there are lots of loopholes, seemingly in favor of the creditor. I'd have to look into it more in order to make sense of it.