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These are the type of "COMMON SENSE" measures being discussed.
http://ncronline.org/news/nra-s-scho...sional-fantasyQuote:
For the record, I oppose gun control. I’m working for gun elimination. Confiscate all 300 million of them. For skeet shooters, collectors or hunters and the blood-sport set who take sadistic pleasure in pumping bullets into animals: Sorry, friends, you’ll need to find other pastimes. The greater good -- the decreasing of suffering and slaughter -- demands it.
He's a parasite whose never had a real job.Quote:
Colman McCarthy directs the Center for Teaching Peace in Washington and teaches courses on nonviolence at four universities and two high schools.
Oh and in b4 Sola_Fide.
drop yours...
and we'll drop ours
Well said! Only... more like drop yours :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jkr
I wonder if Stefan Molyneux is on this site ever.
what about poison tipped arrows?
Well most Bishops seem to agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Confederate
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/sto...ns/1100159.htm
Gun control: Church firmly, quietly opposes firearms for civilians
By Carol Glatz
Catholic News Service
VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- The Catholic Church's position on gun control is not easy to find; there are dozens of speeches and talks and a few documents that call for much tighter regulation of the global arms trade, but what about private gun ownership?
The answer is resoundingly clear: Firearms in the hands of civilians should be strictly limited and eventually completely eliminated.
But you won't find that statement in a headline or a document subheading. It's almost hidden in a footnote in a document on crime by the U.S. bishops' conference and it's mentioned in passing in dozens of official Vatican texts on the global arms trade.
The most direct statement comes in the bishops' "Responsibility, Rehabilitation and Restoration: A Catholic Perspective on Crime and Criminal Justice" from November 2000.
"As bishops, we support measures that control the sale and use of firearms and make them safer -- especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children or anyone other than the owner -- and we reiterate our call for sensible regulation of handguns."
That's followed by a footnote that states: "However, we believe that in the long run and with few exceptions -- i.e. police officers, military use -- handguns should be eliminated from our society."
That in turn reiterates a line in the bishops' 1990 pastoral statement on substance abuse, which called "for effective and courageous action to control handguns, leading to their eventual elimination from our society."
On the world stage, the Vatican has been pushing for decades for limitations not just on conventional weapons of warfare, such as tanks and missiles, but also for stricter limitations on the illegal and legal sale, trade and use of small firearms and weapons, said Tommaso Di Ruzza, the expert on disarmament and arms control at the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace.
Di Ruzza told Catholic News Service that the Vatican is one of just a handful of states that would like to see small arms and weapons included in the U.N. Arms Trade Treaty, which would better regulate the flow of conventional arms.
He said while many countries are open to limits on larger weapons systems, most nations aren't interested in regulating small arms even though they "cause more deaths than all other arms (conventional and non-conventional) together."
The Vatican's justice and peace council is working to update its 1994 document, "The International Arms Trade," to further emphasize the importance of enacting concrete controls on handguns and light weapons, he said.
The current document calls on every nation and state "to impose a strict control on the sale of handguns and small arms. Limiting the purchase of such arms would certainly not infringe on the rights of anyone."
The more weapons there are in circulation, the more likely terrorists and criminals will get their hands on them, the document said.
The Catholic Church recognizes that "states will need to be armed for reason of legitimate defense," as Pope Benedict XVI said in a message to a Vatican-sponsored disarmament conference in April 2008.
However, armed defense is something appropriate for nations, not for all individual citizens in a state where rule of law is effective, said Di Ruzza.
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, individuals have a right and a duty to protect their own lives when in danger, and someone who "defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow."
How that "lethal blow" could be licitly wielded is unclear, but the catechism clarifies that repelling the aggressor must be done "with moderation" in order to be "lawful" in the eyes of the church; using "more than necessary violence" would be unlawful, it says.
According to the catechism, the right to use firearms to "repel aggressors" or render them harmless is specifically sanctioned for "those who legitimately hold authority" and have been given the duty of protecting the community.
Di Ruzza said that in "a democracy, where there is respect for institutions (of law), the citizen relinquishes his right to revenge onto the state," which, through its law enforcement and courts system, aims to mete out a fair and just punishment.
"There is a sort of natural right to defend the common interest and the common good, and in 1791 (when the United States passed the Second Amendment), my right to have a weapon served the common good because there wasn't an army; the democratic institutions were young and a little fragile, and I could have been useful in a time of war as a soldier," said Di Ruzza.
But once a nation has a functioning army, police force and court system, "do I still serve the common good with my gun or do I put it at even greater danger?" and promote a lawless kind of "street justice where if you steal my car, I shoot you," he asked.
The Vatican's justice and peace council's 1994 document said, "In a world marked by evil and sin, the right of legitimate defense by armed means exists," but, Di Ruzza said, it wasn't lauding the potential of weaponry as much as it was lamenting the existence of arms in an imperfect world.
Nations have a duty, the document said, to reduce if not eliminate the causes of violence.
And as Pope Benedict wrote in his message to the disarmament conference, no reduction or elimination of arms can happen without eliminating violence at its root.
Every person "is called to disarm his own heart and be a peacemaker everywhere," the pope said.
The Catholic Church is liberal. Is this news to you people?
There certainly are liberal elements which have actively been trying to destroy the Church for many, many years. However, the teachings of the Church are not liberal at all and there is a fast growing conservative, traditionalist movement within the Church.Quote:
Originally Posted by angelatc
The liberals MUST be exposed and kicked out. Liberals are Satan's agents.
I think it would be more correct to say that the Catholic Church is statist, and has been for most of its long history.Quote:
Originally Posted by angelatc
Oh look, another Humanitarian with a Guillotine.
The National Catholic Reporter is part of the Church's radical Liberal wing. Ignore them, or at least don't associate everything they write as being "Catholic".
You'll find opinions all over the map within the Church in regards to guns, there is no "official" position.
I would just add that the National Catholic Reporter is not a part of the Church, it is a newspaper that covers Catholic issues from a 'progressive' perspective. It has no official connection to the Catholic Church.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus
Correct. "Liberal" versus "conservative" is a red herring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acala
That's the ticket.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acala
Irrelevant. They're just reporting what is coming from in the church.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus
http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-acti...al-justice.cfm
Responsibility, Rehabilitation, and Restoration: A Catholic Perspective on Crime and Criminal Justice
A Statement of the Catholic Bishops of the United States
Challenging the culture of violence and encouraging a culture of life.
All of us must do more to end violence in the home and to find ways to help victims break out of the pattern of abuse.35 As bishops, we support measures that control the sale and use of firearms and make them safer (especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children or anyone other than the owner), and we reiterate our call for sensible regulation of handguns.
Traditional Catholics (like Judge Nap) need to fight here. The problem is many in the church see the government as a vehicle to carry out their will more than the church itself. It's as if they have more faith in the government than in our own religion. Instead of charity, for example, let's get government involved. Instead of instilling catholic-esque family values which would do the most to reduce the culture of reckless violence and irresponsibility, let's take away guns. Liberal Catholics anger me, but be careful here. I think in many cases it's nuns (the bus movement, etc) vs. the common faithful, and Hispanic catholics vs. white catholics, at least on issues of the role of governing.
I know I'm going a little bit beyond the scope of this article, but people love to say the Catholic vote is a swing vote. I disagree. Look at exit polls. In a big Catholic state like Ohio, the White Catholic vote (really the only Catholic vote here) favored Romney 56-40, which was just a couple points off his overall total of the white vote nationally. Hispanic Catholics, big for Obama of course.
Pope Bennedict with his calls for a "new economic world order" for the "common good" is as statist as you can get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Confederate
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/wo...pope.html?_r=0
Interesting that you put "new economic world order" when the encyclical never uses that phrase. The phrase "world order" doesn't even appear a single time. And you might want to find the definition of common good used in the encyclical before you try to dishonestly bring in the socialist definition where something is taken from those who have and given to those who don't. The encyclical is taking about charity and our Christian duty to our neighbour.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdrake
Do I agree with the Pope on many of his personal opinions? Absolutely not. Do I believe he is perfect? Of course not. Does he sin? Yes. Does he make mistakes? Many, as we all do.
From the encyclical itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Confederate
In order not to produce a dangerous universal power of a tyrannical nature, the governance of globalization must be marked by subsidiarity, articulated into several layers and involving different levels that can work together. Globalization certainly requires authority, insofar as it poses the problem of a global common good that needs to be pursued. This authority, however, must be organized in a subsidiary and stratified way[138], if it is not to infringe upon freedom and if it is to yield effective results in practice.
Sure he doesn't use the term "New World Order" but he definitely gives a description of it and endorses a "kindler gentler" version.
Edit: More from the same encyclical.
Economic activity cannot solve all social problems through the simple application of commercial logic. This needs to be directed towards the pursuit of the common good, for which the political community in particular must also take responsibility. Therefore, it must be borne in mind that grave imbalances are produced when economic action, conceived merely as an engine for wealth creation, is detached from political action, conceived as a means for pursuing justice through redistribution.
Calling for "justice through redistribution" is statist.
Isn't mises.org like at least 50% Roman Catholic?
A small nuke would take care of Vatican City and a far cleaner world would be the result. /sarcasm
i dont think we shoudl worry about the government taking away all of our guns...
government does a bad job "banning" things and keeping things out/in.
bad job on war on drugs
bad job on alcohol prohibition
bad job on keeping borders secure
I think that's the wrong message to send to Catholic Priests.Quote:
Originally Posted by jkr
I was gonna say "Molon Labe", but maybe the same problem (?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart3
I'm usually a little hesitant at the concept of showing glee when old institutions are smashed, (marriage, common decency, manners, decorum and so on).
But in this case, I'll not be shedding any tears when this corrupt institution has died out.
Maybe Horace Mann was right after all...
Well, at any rate, enough talk.
Come and take them...
"Max Boot (born September 12, 1969) is an American author, consultant, editorialist, lecturer, and military historian.[1] He has been a prominent advocate for American power."
Max Boot applauds Obama's vision of America as an "ANCHOR" wherever in the world is "necessary" to secure, well, Obama's vision.
On "Washington Today", he emphasized "our" need to not forget our "new" unconventional warfare tactics...'cuz, I quote, "THE BUSINESS OF INSURGENCY" ain't going away. (Perhaps 'cuz we are busy enjoining "our" vision on The Unwilling?)
In emphasizing that "THE BUSINESS OF INSURGENCY" continues post-Afghanistan, he spared no fear-mongering in saying that every America Hater around the world has...again, I quote..."EASY ACCESS" to AK-47's.
Plethora of "assault" weapons around the globe + Chronic Terrorist Threat = CAUSE FOR AMERICANS TO HAVE COMPARABLE WEAPONRY.
It is Lunacy OR IT IS TREASON to disarm Americans of the same guns that are (sold to and) wielded by their Enemies. Speaking of, how much of the arms we sell to non-combatant Saudi Arabia are funneled to enemy combatants?
If Americans DON'T need the same weapons that sworn enemies with a penchant for Terrorism & Jihad have, then we can begin our desperately needed spending cuts by aggressively slashing the mammoth DHS budget.
Never heard of his sorry ass, and at least I have actually been in the military.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapseats
.....and the criminals.Quote:
Originally Posted by phill4paul