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I hear a lot of people saying that I should get gold, and I understand the idea that gold, like stocks, can be bought at a low price and sold for a higher price. What I don't fully grasp however is the end game beyond just buy low and sell high. Can someone explain this to me? Why gold instead of stocks? Why buy gold just to hold onto it indefinitely?
Personally....I wouldn't buy gold to try and do anything with other than as a store of value. I also wouldn't buy anything but physical gold and hold it.
That is what I am talking about. People buying gold as a store of value. What is the end game? It's like telling me to buy a car and just sit it in my driveway and one day it will be a collectible and appreciate in value.Quote:
Originally Posted by headhawg7
OP, unless you're a sophisticated trader/investor (and it appears you're not - I am definitely not one myself and am not afraid to admit it), do what Headhaw7 said.Quote:
Originally Posted by headhawg7
Gold is money. Real money. Sound money. You can go to Montreal, London, Berlin, Rome, Madrid, Vienna, Moscow, Amsterdam, Tokyo, Beijing, Seoul, Canberra, Rio de Janeiro, Santiago, Johannesburg, Riyadh... with a 1-ounce gold coin (Maple Leaf, American Eagle, etc) and you will easily be able to see it for the local currency.
Get it and keep it for the long haul, and make sure you keep it in a secret & safe place (or more than one). And if you don't have it in your possession, you don't own it. I am not against things like Australia's Perth Mint, but I sleep better at night knowing I myself physically own my stuff.
I'm not well versed in this topic which is why I'm asking. I just hear this same conversation over and over again. "Get gold!" "Why?" "Cause..just get it!"Quote:
Originally Posted by The Freethinker
It leaves a lot of unanswered questions for me, and no one seems to address any sort of risk associated with pouring thousands of dollars into gold.
Because it is highly possible. everything else , other than metals that is percieved as money ( most stocks , bonds,Federal Reserve Notes , etc ) , could, become worthless .
But isn't it equally possible that you buy gold at $1700 an ounce and it drops back all of a sudden and never goes back up that high? If you had invested thousands into gold you would lose a lot of money.Quote:
Originally Posted by oyarde
Also, if all other money other than gold becomes worthless then that begs the question why not just wait till that happens? Obviously gold will have to be spread around if it is the only game in town. Right?
In order to believe Copper , Silver, Gold are going to go significantly down , I think you would have to believe other parts of the economy are going to do very well, and that your currency is worth something. I , do not believe those things , I have investments in many things, most of which , I expect to lose significantly on in the near future . I do not expect that with certain other things.
I was going to refer you to a thread I created here where I pasted a long essay I wrote about gold to a friend. I did that to get other forum members to critique it, and although I was told my essay was solid, it is in both your interest and mine to refer you to REAL experts.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZzzImAsleep
As such, I refer you to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NJnL10vZ1Y where Ron Paul grills Ben Bernanke about gold and money.
Here is a much longer video where Ron Paul is interviewed; here he compares a $100 Federal Reserve note to a 1-ounce gold American Eagle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3SOlXxUBLk
You may also wish to read this article where Ron Paul explains how the gold standard was replaced by an "oil" standard and why this is the reason the powers that be want to attack Iran as they wanted to attack Iraq. Iran is quite willing to conduct oil transactions in currencies besides the US dollar.
And, for a lengthier and more complex and detailed, yet highly useful explanation of gold as money, read this now very famous piece by Alan Greenspan from 1966. (I'm not affiliated with The Victory Report website - just found it in PDF version and thought you may like PDF files).
Gold does go up and down per se, but that only matters if you're buying it to sell it not long after to make a spread. For anyone to make significant profits on buying & selling gold, one would have to have substantial assets to begin with. Buying one ounce of gold to sell it for a profit would make no sense unless the markets change to the effect that gold goes from $1,700/oz to $5,000/oz - but if you have 2 or 3 coins only, why would you bother selling it then if it would become such a prized commodity in such conditions?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZzzImAsleep
On the other hand, if you're a millionaire and you can afford to buy $200,000 in gold now, and then in a few months gold goes from $1,700/oz to $3,000/oz and THEn you sell, THEN you're actually making a good spread. But I speculate neither you nor I nor the majority of posters here have that kind of capital to use.
Welcome to the jungle.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZzzImAsleep
If you want a safe return for your fiat currency, you can go down to your local bank and invest your fiat in a CD which will guarantee a return on your fiat currency in the form of fiat currency. In fact, it is protected by the 'gubmint. It is a guaranteed, no-lose deal. Unless, of course, the problem is with the fiat currency itself.
You don't have to invest in pm's. I'm sure that you could buy a forward contract on corn, beans, oil, or FCOJ and stand to gain from increased value compared to fiat. But it is certainly not without risk either.
Only the elite know just where and how this ship is going onto the rocks. They know exactly where to invest. We do not. We can just guess.
[QUOTE=sparebulb;4747170]Welcome to the jungle.
If you want a safe return for your fiat currency, you can go down to your local bank and invest your fiat in a CD which will guarantee a return on your fiat currency in the form of fiat currency. In fact, it is protected by the 'gubmint. It is a guaranteed, no-lose deal. Unless, of course, the problem is with the fiat currency itself.
You don't have to invest in pm's. I'm sure that you could buy a forward contract on corn, beans, oil, or FCOJ and stand to gain from increased value compared to fiat. But it is certainly not without risk either. Sparebulb is correct , it is a crap shoot , try to make educated guesses , but some things , just make sense.... Gold , silver , copper, beef , corn , will , never be worth , nothing , but a share of stock , can be .
Here's your end game...
Gold goes into the mother of all bubbles as the currency, debt, and bond bubbles burst at the exact same time.
Without confidence in the Federal Reserve or our currency the world's equity (paper) markets, which are now directly tied to the housing economy we're propping up, crashes into oblivion. At once people are left with no safe store of value as hyperinflation sets in and the prices of all companies and real estate shoot way way below fair market value.
As equites and real estate are plummeting to levels never thought possible Gold, followed by silver, rise to levels also never thought possible.
The purchasing power of these particular commodities end up being the greatest stores of value on the planet and with this new found purchasing power you buy yourself back into undervalued equites but even more importantly into under valued cash flow real estate (think rentals, or storage, or parking garages- real estate that brings money).
After this mother of all collapses, the bursting of the 3-pronged debt bubble, the market will eventually rebound and the equites and real estate you got on the low with your massively inflated gold begin to gain value back (hopefully in a system that would be recreated as more stable than the current one) and then you're left with property and stocks that work for you.
The goal here with the gold, at least for me, is to position myself so that I can invest into undervalued assets after the real crash and the massive bubble we'll witness in gold will make that possible.
With real estate now working for me i'm freed up to not have to work a 9-5 job or take on much stress/responsibility for the foreseeable future. What my end game with gold and silver is is to position myself to buy back my time.
That's what we've really lost here in the last 40 years... we've lost our time... we've been turned into serfs with no end in sight.
These moments of great collapse also tend to be the moments where great riches are made as the sheeple are driven to the slaughter. I'm positioning myself with gold and silver so I can buy into assets that will make money for me on the market's upswing. I'm trying to position myself to buy my time back so i'm free to let my money work for me and not the other way around.
It's important to keep in mind that while gold and silver are wonderful they are ultimately means to an end.
It is my personal opinion that the central banks of the world are printing into oblivion while also hoarding gold in expectation of this event, it is my belief that the world's central banks are positioning themselves to buy back all the equites and real estate from we the people after they destroy the value of everything.
It's not about money, it's never been about money, it's all about control. They're going to keep accumulating gold, and they're going to crash our currency into oblivion. Then they're going to march in and buy everything back from us at absurdly low rates.
I'm going to follow their lead and do the same thing.
If you wait until fiat currency becomes worthless, what are you going to use to buy the gold?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZzzImAsleep
Hey OP, you have been here an awful long time to just now start asking about gold. Just curious, have you been focused on some other aspect of Ron Paul's campaign for liberty? If I had to point to one issue that he emphasizes more than any other, it is sound money.
What Acala said is good.
The Central bank regimes claim monopoly on 50% of ALL economic transactions (the dollar side of the equation). The system of fiat debt issuance is immoral and repugnant. That is to say that right off the bat - AT LEAST 50% of all economic transaction under the current regime is corrupted. The number is far higher, in reality.
By purchasing gold, not only are you storing value in a an unleveraged asset with no counter party risk - you are altering the pyramid of debt issuance that expands only through complicit behavior.
Gold/silver are monies derived of freedom. That's your end game.
Why it technically COULD happen that physical gold goes down significantly and for long periods, but I would say it is as unlikely as Obama turning into a libertarian. There will come a day very very soon where we as a government and as an entire country will not be able to borrow more money(rates rising/lack of savings). In fact, you could say we have already hit this, which is why the fed is monetizing our debt. Almost all debt will eventually be paid for with cash.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZzzImAsleep
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8r0a6gvmh9...cyCollapse.jpg
This has to happen or else we will snowball into a 1930s style deflationary depression. And with the fed's propensity to print and bail, they will not sit by and let that happen.
Look at the banking system's assets, vs the base money growth. When rates rise, credit(their assets) falls. See in 08 when the markets tried to self correct? PANIC! To keep the train going, you always need more credit, but we have hit or are approaching the point where this is impossible without monetizing.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-x_2RtHWsOu...Picture-22.png
This, on its own, will create hyperinflation. But you also have all of the foreign holdings of US cash flowing onshore, our goods being bid up and flowing offshore and very few if any people accepting dollars for trade. The only escape from this paper nightmare will be gold. As people want gold, they will want the physical as nothing can be trusted anymore. Then the bullion bank's fractional reserve system will be exposed and many people who thought they had gold, will have nothing. So this will cause physical to skyrocket, but then you also have physical gold becoming THE world's reserve asset, so all of the reserves that used to be US dollars(and more than likely most other fiat currencies) becoming physical gold.
So really you have two factors pushing up the value of physical gold. The collapse of the bullion banks' fractional reserve system and gold becoming the world's reserve asset. Inflation will move it's price up nominally, like most other things.
James 5:3
You probably should cite more than that, lest the point be lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Shorland
Quote:
1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. 2 Your riches are corrupted , and your garments are motheaten. 3 Your gold and silver is cankered ; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. 4 Behold , the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud , crieth : and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. 5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton ; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. 6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.
So where can gold be bought by the coin? I dont have thousands to dump into gold right now.
Price of a gallon of gas in 1964 was $0.30, or three silver dimes. Today, those same three silver dimes would get you $7.42, or over two gallons of gas (based off AAA average of $3.42 a gallon).
A one ounce gold coin can cost up to $1,900. Us poor folks normally go for silver-Quote:
Originally Posted by ZzzImAsleep
Start off easy with American Silver Eagles (ASE). http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/cate...irculated.aspx
OR
90% "Junk Silver" Coins- http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/cate...ver-coins.aspx
Dimes, quarters, and half dollars minted in 1964 and before contain 90% silver. Best way to tell is by looking at the side. If you look at your typical quarter or dime you'll notice half of it looks red. That red is copper and there is no silver. 1964 and before coins won't have that, they'll be completely silver.
This site is a great tool to use so you don't have to remember all the dates (after you collect for a few months, it'll come more naturally). It also gives the amount of ounces that each silver coin has. Also, there is a great tool on that site that tells you how many ounces of silver is in each "junk silver" coin, and what it is worth in dollars based off the current price of silver. http://www.coinflation.com/coins/sil...alculator.html
Go to your local coin shop and get a 1/2 or 1/4th ounce coin.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZzzImAsleep
I saw an ad for an Australian Kangaroo for only about $80 in the Sunday paper.
Not a good deal though- that was for a half GRAM coin which would make it about $4,000 an ounce. 28 grams to the ounce- it is 0.016 troy ounces. (And I see you can get them from the Australian mint for about $56 http://www.coinnews.net/2010/06/10/2...-coin-on-sale/ ) Pretty hefty markup. Not listed for sale currently at their site, but the Perth Mint also produces a 1 kilo gold coin- that would be over two pounds! Cash discount price on it is listed as $57,000 (saving $2,000 US). http://www.providentmetals.com/2013-...erth-mint.html 32 ounces of .9999 (yes, four nines!) pure gold.
Most people I know are just too hung up in valuation of gold in USD.
Imagine you had a great grandfather who lived in the south and had $1 million. In scenario A he planned to hold that money and pass it down to his heirs. In scenario B he traded the money for gold, also planning to hand it down to his heirs.
Imagine then that you receive that inheritance. In scenario A, the money was confederate dollars, which means you would inherit nothing. In scenario B, the gold was gold and your inheritance would be worth $90 million.
That's a simple case for buying and holding gold vs whatever piece of paper happens to be the current popular 'legal tender'.
During your great grandfather's and grandfather's lives, the gold would have remained a relatively static store of value.
Now, imagine your father sold the gold, then bought it back and repeated that exercise a half dozen times over the past 30 years. That gold stash could easily have grown a half billion worth of the current form of USD, in 1 generation. That's because, like every paper certificate before it, the USD is on its last legs and that's reflected in how many of them it takes to buy your gold, which is on its same legs it had 5,000 years ago.
For those who have eternal faith in the USD and want to use theirs to turn it into more USD for purchases of goods or services... don't buy gold, buy Facebook stock and cross your fingers. For those like your fictional great grandfather, no discussion is necessary.
Depends on when he bought and sold his gold. If he had $1 million in gold in 1980 and sold it then and bought it back in 2001 he would have $300,000 left.
If he had $1 million and sold in in 1850 and bought again in 1919 (70 years later), he still had $1 million (minus his transaction costs). http://www.nma.org/pdf/gold/his_gold_prices.pdf If he waited until 1931 (80 years later) to re-buy, he would have $900,000- losing ten percent in the nominal price. If there was any price inflation in those 80 years, his purchasing power of that once $1 million in gold would be less. But we should remember that until really 1972 there wasn't a free market price of gold- the US Government said how many dollars it would take to buy an ounce of gold.
End game:
Force a new monetary order.
Here is what I am confused about based on what some of you are saying. The dollar is going to crash and people will turn to gold, but most people don't have gold, if you don't count jewelry, so how in the world are you supposed to walk into a grocery store during a period of hyper-inflation and hand them a gold coin? There seems to be a disconnect between the idea of "Gold will go up/retain value" and making that work in a day to day environment.
No , you will not use gold @ the grocery , I imagine, I also , doubt there will be much of anything @ the store ,for awhile , just my speculation.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZzzImAsleep