Lincoln might not have been fighting to stop slavery but the south sure AS HELL WASN't fighting for the right of people to leave a union and were fighting to perserve slavery.
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Lincoln might not have been fighting to stop slavery but the south sure AS HELL WASN't fighting for the right of people to leave a union and were fighting to perserve slavery.
True dat. Both sides sucked. And these arguments that people feel so passionately about do nothing IMO to advance the cause of liberty. Seriously talking about 9/11 being an inside job makes more sense. The Patriot Act and these wars can directly be traced to 9/11. I can't fathom anyone who truly understands the depth of the deception on 9/11 supporting the wars and the Patriot Act and the NDAA. But I meet people all the time on both sides of the civil war / pro - anti Lincoln / (and pro - anti MLK for that matter) divide who support the wars and the Patriot Act and the NDAA. That said, yall are having so much fun. No need for me to spoil it.
But jmdrake. I strongly believe that I have the right to defend myself at all times. The intention of the OP was to share what Lincoln said about National Banks. When "itshappening" introduced the Civil War issue into the thread, should I have just ignored his nonsense? What would you have done?
LOL... okay. But the truth be known... Abraham Lincoln was a peaceful man. Unfortunately, he was elected president in early November 1860, and the Southern leaders knew he was man of principle who would honor his word. He had to wait nearly four months after being elected to swear the oath of office. The South seceded. The Civil War was started before he even got to Washington. So you are right, anything with Lincoln's name in the title is about the Civil War even though Lincoln never wanted to fight anyone. His National Bank idea, prior to the Civil War, was an audited National Bank in order to promote commerce through consistent currency. If anyone doubts his intentions, then please read the OP and respond.
Also, you may want to check out the following thread about Lincoln and Marxism. I am pretty new to the entire Lincoln debate, and only started studying it this month. Thank Steven Spielberg for that, as several people had asked me about the Lincoln movie, which required some research on my part before giving any answers. The Marx connection was a rabbit hole that I followed, and found very interesting, mostly due to it's 1984-style erasure from history.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...coln-a-Marxist
A lot of people claim to know what was in historical figures' heads like this, including Lincoln and various southern and northern folks. Query: how do you know what these people were thinking? This sort of tactic is typical of hagiographers, not serious historians.
I also had to read about the "American System". Interesting stuff.
I must say, it's very mild stuff compared to what we actually have today. If that was all government did, it would be a vast improvement.Quote:
the plan "consisted of three mutually reinforcing parts: a tariff to protect and promote American industry; a national bank to foster commerce; and federal subsidies for roads, canals, and other 'internal improvements' to develop profitable markets for agriculture."
My thoughts:
- Tariff: As a lesser of evils option, a flat, low, across the board tariff is preferable to all other taxes. It creates the least paperwork/enforcement burden, and is Constitutional.
- National bank: It would be best if they only produced gold and silver coin for the Congress, as the Constitution specifies. If a "debt-free" money, issued by the government is part of this plan, then it is preferable to the Federal Reserve System of Debt Dealers we have today. A National fiat currency would be rather harmless, as long as there are competing currencies, no legal tender laws, no price fixing, and no fixed exchange rates. In that situation, only government employees or contractors would have to accept a National fiat currency, as part of their employment contract. Obviously businesses would probably also accept it too, but the purchasing power and exchange rates would depend on market forces, and how responsible the National Bank was with it's debt-free currency.
- Public roads. That is more of a slippery slope issue. Before modern electronics were created, tolls were a royal pain. Good roads are a benefit. As far as paying for roads, it should be a local issue (town, city, county, maybe State). Not Federal. And public/private partnerships are a scam. Either it's public, or it's private. None of this "socializing costs", "privatizing profits" nonsense.
That's always been my take on it too. It's very politically charged, with so many different interpretations, hidden meanings and agendas, and misconceptions of all kinds, it's hardly worth talking about and kind of pointless. It's also been put through the Ministry of Truth Historical Revision process so many times it's hard to separate fact from fiction.
Isn't it though? It all begins to make sense when looking at it from their viewpoint rather than ours.
True enough. A government like Lincoln was advocating was virtually benign. Interestingly enough it was Thomas Jefferson who authorized the first national road through the Cumberland Gap.
If you think the establishment of a national bank is workable and will ever adhere to the tenants you outlined, you're sorely mistaken. A national bank is simply another appendage of the state, and a very powerful one at that. Since it is just another appendage of the state, it is fully open to co-option by private capitalists for their own purposes. You get an inflationary monetary policy as a direct result of the elite corporate class taking over government by electing their stooge politicians who funnel treasury loot directly to them. It's the monetary policy that allows them to do so even as real limits are placed on government spending by a gold standard. Hence why all of the protocols you outlined would eliminated.
He was such a peaceful man, if he was alive today he would've won a Nobel Peace Prize like BHO. Here are some of his notable achievements:
- Shut down 300 opposition newspapers.
- Suspended habeas corpus (illegally)
- Imprisoned tens of thousands of political dissenters in hell-hole prisons like Fort McHenry and Fort Lafayette
- Deported outspoken Democratic congressman Clement Vallandigham of Ohio.
- Censored telegraphs.
- Intimidated judges.
- Lincoln issued an arrest warrant for Chief Justice Roger Taney who said his suspension of habeas corpus was unconstitutional.
- Lincoln placed sentries outside the home of a federal judge in Washington D.C. who issued a writ of habeas corpus to a man detained by the D.C. Provost Marshal so the judge couldn’t preside over his hearing.
- Conscripted soldiers
- Recruited foreign immigrants to fight in the war
- Abolished the independent treasury system, was the first one to nationalize the money supply.
No wonder neo-cons and leftists love Lincoln so much. He had just as much respect for the US Constitution and the founding principals of this country as they do.
Do you believe that Lincoln went to Washington with that agenda in mind? Can you cite any aggressive act Lincoln ever initiated against any human being prior to the Southern Confederacy bombardment of Fort Sumter?
Just for the record, I do not agree with Lincoln's National Bank. I posted his speech to prove that Lincoln's National Bank is not the same as the international banker's "Federal Reserve System" of counterfeiting money and debasing currency.
Nothing is perfect. Corruption always exists and always will. This is nothing new. There is no system or lack of system that will prevent corruption. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
Competing currencies is a better option, and I prefer gold and silver coin.
To say that "competing currencies" is a bad option because powerful interests will co-opt it is redundant. They will try, and if they are successful, then you no longer have competing currencies, by definition.
Travlyr,
Check this out:
Tom Woods: The Lincoln Money Cabal | Why the Greenbackers Are Wrong
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...kers-Are-Wrong