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Someone tell Sean Insanity. He just had someone on Wednesday who was arguing with him on that, he interrupted him mid-sentence (imagine that!) and stated, "yes, he did, we've gone over and over on this, he said it many times, we have it on tape, blah, blah."
Heaven forbid the truth should get out when there are wars to get started based upon lies.
Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing. ~Dwight D. EisenhowerQuote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaAvenger
I'd be a LOT more worried about Pakistan's Nukes than Iran's. Pakistan is on the verge of becoming a radical Muslim state. And THEY'VE REALLY GOT THE NUKES.
Even Israeli intelligence has described Iran as a rational player.
I don't think the same can be said for those close to taking over Pakistan.
In my opinion.
The reason people in the US government are not worried about Pakistan is because Pakistan's radicals are supported by the US. This goes way back to the time of Reagan's Afghan freedom fighters. Hilary Clinton always meets with one of these freakish mullahs with his orange turban when she goes to Pakistan.Quote:
Originally Posted by jolynna
Because we slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians for NO REASON. And occupied their country terrorizing their citizens.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaAvenger
In the process, 4,400 of young American men and women died without ANY cause. To say nothing of our soldiers that were maimed. Or the soldiers that have to live for the rest of their lives with what they saw or worse participated in.
Iraq did NOT have weapons of mass destruction. Or biological weapons. They were NOT participants in 9/11. There were no Al Qaeda in Iraq.
We should not have been there. What we did to those people is as much of a crime when the Nazis eliminated first communists, then civil dissidents and finally Jews, Gypsies, Jehovah Witnesses and the mentally impaired (among others). Or when the Turks exterminated the Armenians. Or when the Communist party in Russia exterminated millions of their own men, women and children between 1917 and 1987.
Our military men and women should ONLY be put at risk FOR: (1) Defensive action: To repel and defeat any actual attack from an adversary OR (2) Retaliatory action: After suffering an actual attack, to destroy the capability and will of the adversary to stage further attacks.
Period. No exceptions.
Killing people when it ISN'T self defense is immoral and cannot be justified.
In my opinion.
^Was not talking about Iraq. Do not support Iraq.
I'm not convinced China respects MAD.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaAvenger
I'm not convinced Russia respects MAD.
I'm not convinced Israel respects MAD.
I'm not convinced North Korea respects MAD.
I'm not convinced India respects MAD.
I'm not convinced Pakistan respects MAD.
I'm not convinced the U.S. respects MAD.
The last time there was a nuclear armed state actively shopping nuclear weapons to the highest bidder, that was Pakistan and the A.Q. Khan network. Yet we didn't see any mushroom clouds as a result. We have a choice. We can either live through fear and be our own worst enemies, or live through faith. I choose to live through faith.
But it was the "We must be afraid cause the boogeyman may have/get WMDs" mentality that directly led to the current situation in Iraq. Every objective measure shows that when it comes to foreign policy Iran is a not a rational actor. If you want to live in fear of what the might do because of their internal affairs that's on you. Have you ever read the Soviet constitution? I haven't, but based on what I know of Soviet history they treated their people worse than any other regime in modern history. Yet despite Nikita Krushev's "we will bury you" comment, when it came to foreign policy they were still rational actors. Even the Cuban missile crisis was a rational act because it was predicated by our build up of nuclear forces in Italy and Turkey.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaAvenger
Regardless, you fear what you fear. I find your fear irrational. You obviously feel otherwise. So what would you like done about your fear?
Edit: One other thing. Let's assume Iran's goal is a worldwide Islamic state. How would that goal be reached if Iran committed state suicide by nuking or attempting to nuke Israel or the U.S.? And what do you actually know about Islamic beliefs regarding the end of the world?
Good for you if you didn't support Iraq. You are one of the few. (And I mean that sincerely. I was fooled.)Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaAvenger
Almost ALL of the rest of our nation DID support invading Iraq. They were duped, very convincingly that there was good cause to invade that country.
As for Iran...
Breathless predictions that Iran will soon be at the brink of nuclear capability, or – worse – acquire an actual nuclear bomb, are not new.
Imminent Iran nuclear threat? A timeline of warnings since 1979: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middl...emy-No.-1-1992
As I said, unless it is under THESE situations (1) defensive action: to repel and defeat any actual attack from an adversary OR (2) retaliatory action: after suffering an actual attack, to destroy the capability and will of the adversary to stage further attacks, WE are the aggressors who commit war crimes when we invade and occupy other countries and kill hundreds and thousands of their people.
Support OUR troops by NEVER sending them into a war without cause. Never. Ever.
In my opinion.
I hear a lot of talk about MAD, and how a nuke would only kill a few of our people etc. Does no one remember we have this lovely little thing called an anti missile system that our military uses? We can shoot anything out of the sky, before it even gets CLOSE to America. Iran on the other hand does not have a nuke. We could rain all holy hell on them if they even tried to nuke us. They pose no threat.
Besides, in the history of the world, who is the only nation that has ever nuked another Nation? Oh that would be America. If anyone should be disarmed, it is us.
If you want to make sure millions of Americans are safe, you need to start looking in your own backyard, with people who speak your own language, were born here, and hate the millions of American mundanes.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaAvenger
This is a good healthy debate, and the reason I come to this forum is to read differing opinions such as these. So thank you all who've posted.
I just wanted to add, the reason I posted this is to demonstrate the difference between the news that other countries get from CNN, and what we get. I'm sure everyone in the media knows that to quote what he said with their translation is a lie, yet they maintain the lie and use it against Ron Paul. It demonstrates the pure evil of the MSM. Regardless of the relationship of the people and their countries, regardless of nukes or no nukes, to say that Ahmadinejad literally said "wipe Israel of the face of the map" IS A LIE.
go to 2:00..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDKMR7mJERU
Reality Check
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5m661fcNZI
It absolutely is a lie, my doctor is Iranian and speaks Farsi. What the media keeps repeating as fact is a mistranslation and NOT TRUE.Quote:
Originally Posted by V3n
Some real republicans round here:rolleyes:
I nominate Ben Swann for the best journalist of modern time and Sean Hannity for one of the worst. +rep for posting those vids!
Quote:
Originally Posted by V3n
Fighting between the Arabs and Western World started way back. The Crusades, anyone?
Pointless fighting for NO REASON AT ALL. Many fight for the greed of a few.
Iran has not sponsored terrorism IN THE UNITED STATES as our intelligence services currently DO IN Iran (bombings, kidnappings, sabotages and targeted assassinations).Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdrake
But, Iraq didn't either.
Neither Iraq OR Iran had ANY involvement with 9/11.
imo
Facts are facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tudo
I pray there are progressives that are looking at their "hope and change" guy and realizing that he DIDN'T repeal the Patriot Act and restore American freedom and that he DIDN'T bring the troops back from all the wars that never should have been.
And that MORE and MORE of our GOP reads something, sees a documentary or talks to somebody and REALIZES that war without cause means "slaughtering innocent people" including our own children who we send supposedly fight for freedom WHICH we GIVE AWAY at home for the "War on Terror", which can NEVER be won because it has NO discernible end and NO way to define victory.
American's most dangerous enemies are not Islamic radicals, but those who promote the perverted ideology of "national security" (which isn't securing our FREEDOM, just the opposite).
In my opinion.
I just noticed the quote at the end of Warrior_of_Freedom's posts:
We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
~Edward R. Murrow
I love that!
One other thing I thought about. Let's say Iran had enough nukes to "wipe Israel off the map". So what would happen to all of the Muslim holy sites like the Al Aqsa Mosque? Really, nuclear war with Israel is totally impractical for what Iran allegedly wants to achieve. Now supposedly Iran is "crazy" so they will just not think this through. But these "crazy" Iranians haven't tried to invade Israel. Why not? That would be just about as practical in achieving their supposed goals as would nuking Israel (in other words, not very practical at all).
But here's something else to consider. When rogue nuclear scientist A.Q. Khan was trying to sell nuclear weapons parts to the highest bidder Iran turned him down. Now if Iran was just hell bent on getting nukes as soon as possible so they could destroy Israel, why did they turn down nuke plans from the one guy in the Islamic world known to have successfully designed and tested a nuclear bomb?
There's a lot of conservatives in Iran sure, but one thing is really being overlooked. Iranians in my experience are extremely nationalistic, and what comes with that is secularism. Many Iranians are infact secular nationalists, this whole "they believe in the After life, therefore they don't care about MAD" is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my entire life, it's not only stupid but incredibly naive to think that an entire demographic of people think the same way that tens of millions of Iranians will just say "yep ok" if their government sends them down a path of destruction. It's frankly insulting to the Iranian people to think they're just wreckless or push-overs, and they don't care about their childrens future.
I believe Iran has proxy agents all over the world the most famous Hezbullah and then Jaysh al Mehdi commanded by Muqtada al Sadr in Iraq; if they weren't worried about self preservation then why has Hezbullah not started any wars with Israel the only wars they fought were over sovereign Lebanese soil.
I don't worry too much though. Iran favors Jews to their sunni counterparts, it's a love hate relationship, Israel is much happier with a Nasruallah in Lebanon, than Salafi elements, this is well known. Nasruallah can get on stage in front of 100s of thousands of supporters where all it takes is one f16 to take him out if they really wanted to but hes a buffer and tolerated.
We shot down an Iranian passenger jet and killed 300 passengers in 1988. We've been blown up Iranian oil lines, sabotaged, flown drones over their country, we are trying to economically cripple them, sponsored or participated in kidnapping or worse assassinated Iranian citizens and we constantly throw dinners in Washington to raise money for groups like MEK.
Where is evidence Iranians have conducted terrorism IN the United States?????
In my opinion.
The SAME people that urged us to invade Iraq because Iraq was going to NUKE us any minute are the same people that have been trying to get the United States to go after Iran for DECADES (saying Iran is getting Nukes any second).
There were no Al Qaeda in Iraq. No weapons of mass destruction. No biological weapons. There was NO CONNECTION between Iraq and 9/11. Just like the ONLY thing most of us have in common with Timothy McVey is that we'd both say we were Christian, ALL that the Iraqi people had in common with the mostly Saudi 9/11 airplane hijackers is that many would say they were Muslim--although different branches of Muslim with different beliefs. Yet, this country advocated killing over 100,000 Iraqi citizens...preemptively. Only...oops...the United States was wrong.
Now. Based upon fear mongering from the SAME people that misled us about Iraq, we are supposed to exterminate MORE middle eastern people? And let more of our young soldiers die, be maimed or be forever scarred by what they see or do?
Preemptively?
"Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing." - President Dwight D. Eisenhower
Aren't we supposed to LEARN from history?
My own opinion.
i honestly believe there is a higher chance the US WILL wipe the world off the map