• TER's Avatar
    Today, 07:32 PM
    Trusting only in Scripture is most definitely an innovative doctrine which is completely foreign to the teachings and writings of the Apostles and early Church Fathers. The rest of your post seems like word-play. :) Let's slow things down a little bit... If I call my father 'father', am I sinning against God?
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 05:56 PM
    Btw, while there are local non-dogmatic traditions which vary from region or nation and ones which change in time and space according to the challenges being faced by the members, the notion that we are to hand on to the teachings of our fathers before us is a fundamental Christian teaching, completely consistent with the history of Israel's relationship with God and the teachings handed down by Christ to His Apostles and the Church. We can say to be wary of traditions which are apart from God, but at the same time we should earnestly seek to find which are the ones which are according to His pleasure. When we put even just a small effort in studying the writings of the early witnesses, we clearly learn how important good traditions are according to Christ and the Apostles, and to the Church Fathers and the Saints of the early Church. A great part, perhaps the very essence, of being a Christian is one of obedience and control over one's own will in order to find the will of God. This includes following the commandments of God and the traditions of God (whether in word or epistle) and no more reliably visible is the will of God discerned than through the Church which is the pillar and foundation of the truth. For it is God Himself working within the Church which gives it such great a power, just as it was God Himself working through the Church in the writing of the Holy Scriptures, which was one part of the fulfillment of the apostolic commission.
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 05:38 PM
    Then why did St. Paul tell his spiritual children to listen to him and to the Apostles? Were they not men? Perhaps because the authority lay not in them, but in the Holy Spirit in them?? And if so, perhaps it is because of the Holy Spirit in them which gives the authority regarding dividing which are good traditions and which are bad.
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 05:34 PM
    Through the Holy Trinity, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But more specifically, for reasons of this current dialogue, through the Holy Spirit after Christ ascended to be at the Right Hand of the Father.
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 05:21 PM
    I would add that you are correct donnay in that there exist traditions which can be castigated as 'traditions of men' or 'traditions apart from God'. No one is denying this. The question is, how can we know which are the bad traditions which St. Paul is alluding to in some of the quotes above and which are the good traditions which St. Paul is alluding to in the others? Here is a hint: What did the same St. Paul say was the bulwark and foundation for the truth? Perhaps knowing that, we might better know which are the God-inspired traditions beneficial to the Christian and which are not and should be avoided. In one breath, you post a quote which gives the impression that traditions (in general) are bad, and then in another, a quote which speaks to the traditions of the Apostles and how they must be handed down. The question, as asked above, is who or what determines which traditions are beneficial and which are not, which should be discarded and which should of be faithfully followed and handed down?
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 04:53 PM
    Donnay, you continue to ignore the question I asked you earlier. If we can continue with that dialogue, perhaps we can then move onto the quotes you mention above and discuss how they fit in. I will try again: Did the Apsotles start any traditions?
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 04:18 PM
    I believe he is referring to those who are singing the psalms and hymns in the liturgical service. The singing of hymns and prayers during common liturgical worship goes back, of course, to a time before the New Testament period. In the early Church, we find this tradition in the Book of Acts. By the second and third century, pious liturgical developments in hymnology and in the ordos of the worship helped formalize a more concrete and universal liturgical formation structured around the apostolic framework which was handed down by the Apostles and those they ordained. This resulted in a more aesthetic and structured service incorporating the talents of select individuals within the Church who led the laity in the antiphonal responses and hymning, as well as in the readings from the Old Testament. Because they chant (or sing) the psalms (which is a tradition which dates back to Jewish practices prior to Christ's Advent), they have been called chanters.
    391 replies | 23761 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 03:56 PM
    I am not sure what you mean by 'biblical Christianity' but I assume you are referring to the tradition of Sola Scriptura which was started relatively recently. In the Scriptures themselves we find St. Paul calling himself a spiritual father to the believers in Corinth. 1 Corinthians 4:15 For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. Therefore I urge you, imitate me. For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord, who will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach everywhere in every church. But I do appreciate your qualification of 'we don't call those who disciple in the faith father'. Yet Jesus didn't say that in Matthew. He said call no man father. Do you believe, therefore, that it is a sin to call your father 'father' regardless if he disciplines you in the faith?
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 03:32 PM
    He is not a 'friar'. Fr (in this instance) is short for "Father", referring to someone who is ordained a presbyter. The author is an Orthodox Christian. Within the Orthodox Church (as has been since the days of the New Testament), there is no individual sects or varying orders with the ascetic or monastic apart from that of Bishop, Presbyter, Deacon and Laity.
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 03:31 PM
    There are many good points you bring up which I would like to discuss further with you. It is nice to see that you understand that there do exist traditions within the life of the Church and the believers who make up the Church. Christ Himself told His disciples to 'do everything they told them', referring to the holy traditions which where handed down from old. It was the hypocrisy and lack of mercy which Christ rallied against, and not the traditions per say. There are some who take a novel (and modern) blindly 'anti-tradition' stance and do not understand that this has absolutely no place in the life of the Christian and never has been. It is completely against the history of Christianity and the instructive model initiated by the first Apostles and those who followed them. We find many traditions starting in the Acts of the Apostles as well as in the Epistles. The Apostles implored their fellow believers to uphold these traditions and to pass them down. These, were, indeed, rules, and breaking these rules could mean excommunication and sacramental separation from the Holy Eucharist. They took obedience, meekness, and humility very seriously, and this first towards God and then next to those who God elevated as spiritual leaders. If not for traditions which are held fast and guarded, then we see the confusion you are mentioning in even greater degrees. We see this in the current landscape of the modern world, where the traditions are not a few varied, but rather varying in the millions, with individuals affirming their own personal ideas of what is correct and true, and elevating their notions to be the truth. This is indeed a tradition of many modern Christians. And so we have not a unity in faith and worship, but rather a cacophony of individual mental constructs, separated from the eternal truths and beneficial traditions handed down, and limited in scope according to the weakness of men. This tradition, which is related to the OP point regarding the modern egalitarianism so prevalent in this decaying civilization, is more a cause for confusion than any of the ones instituted by the Holy Apostles. Thus, we ask ourselves again, as I ask donnay, 'which are the traditions of men, which are good for nothing, and which are the traditions instituted by God, which are for the good of the Christian life in this world?'
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 03:07 PM
    Thank you. I understand better now.
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 02:41 PM
    What makes so many people confused is hypocrisy (which is actually what Jesus was reprimanding the Pharisees about when He spoke about traditions) and divisions. When there is steadfastness, virtue, and unity of faith, there is no confusion, which is why St. Paul and the other Apostles labored so hard to bring to the churches spread far and wide to unity in faith and mind and confession and worship, so that in unity they may find God as He is, and not what our mere minds may individually imagine Him to be.
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 02:29 PM
    Good post! I don't clearly understand, however, what you mean by 'the limits of the human heart will try to impose equality on all'. Can you elaborate on this? Thanks!
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 02:16 PM
    To keep things more simple, HB, I am referring to the Church we read about in the New Testament and whether any traditions were started by the Apostles. It seems like donnay is anti-tradition. Presumably, it is 'traditions of men' which she is against. Therefore, I would like to learn if she knows whether the Apostles started any traditions or not, and if so, were these mere 'traditions of men' which she claims should be fought against.
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 02:02 PM
    The question, which you haven't answered, is, did the Apostles start any traditions? A yes or no answer would be a productive way to continue this dialogue.
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 01:19 PM
    That does not answer the question. By your knowledge, did the Church in the book of Acts not start any traditions?
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 01:15 PM
    Yet God, in His love, did not leave us alone and without help, but has established a Church comprised of like-minded believers, united in baptism and the Body and Blood of Christ, as a means to guide us and nourish us and strengthen us. Christ did not leave us empty handed and without a roadmap, but rather established a priesthood and Holy Scriptures and life-giving sacraments to bring us closer to Him so that we might find the Kingdom even here on earth. We as Christians are not saved alone, but rather as one body of Christ, united in love, mind, faith and spirit. We will not enter the Kingdom after the Judgment alone, but as one body, one bride, one faithful communion of love in spirit and in truth and sanctified flesh made so by the power and grace of God
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 12:38 PM
    How does one know whch traditions are of men and which are of God? The word 'paradosis' in the Scriptures is translated as 'traditions' in English. The term means literally 'what is handed down'. Such as in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.” Thus, how do we know which are the things handed down by man alone apart from God and which are handed down through the Holy Spirit working in men? Is it not the Church which is the standard, as it has always been from the time of the Apostles (and indeed, before them)? It most certainly is not the Scriptures alone, considering it is the Church which predates the Scriptures and which wrote the Scriptures by the illumination of God for the benefit of mankind. The Scriptures are integral part but is not the whole, and the decay in Western civilization is because the Scriptures have been divorced from the living Church and like a tool, used by men to devise their own interpretations and teachings (which they proceed to hand down) apart from the living witness of the Saints before us. Those who preach the Solas and 'me and my Bible' theology indeed have created their own traditions or they have adopted these traditions from their own particular teachers. The problem is that many of their teachers which they have made to be their fathers in the faith are not the church fathers which can be traced all the way back to the early Saints, sharing of the one cup in communion of faith and love, and indeed teach things which are completely against the history of the living Church and the teachings handed down from the infant community of baptized believers.
    42 replies | 359 view(s)
  • GunnyFreedom's Avatar
    Today, 07:28 AM
    Currently under federal law you cannot make a Jew sell a Nazi cupcakes. In Johnson's world the fedgov has the right to force the Jew to sell cupcakes to a Nazi. Johnson can SAY this is not a change until he is blue in the face. He is either lying, ignorant, or incompetent. None of which belongs in any office in the US, much less POTUS.
    88 replies | 1000 view(s)
  • GunnyFreedom's Avatar
    Today, 01:13 AM
    A "Nazi" is not currently a protected class. If a Jew baker refused to sell cookies to a Nazi today, nothing would happen. Johnson's vision is an expansion of the social collective enforcement that government already does, only his vision would expand it even further than Obama already has.
    88 replies | 1000 view(s)
  • GunnyFreedom's Avatar
    Today, 01:06 AM
    In principle he expands the federal power over the states, and I cannot and will not support it, because this is the #1 issue that keeps the leviathan fed. ETA every other issue you mention is resolved at the federal level by restoring the correct balance of power. Therefore I do not think insisting on a Constitutionally oriented federal/state balance of power is not too much to ask for. This is a drop-dead issue for me.
    88 replies | 1000 view(s)
  • GunnyFreedom's Avatar
    88 replies | 1000 view(s)
  • GunnyFreedom's Avatar
    Today, 12:32 AM
    So the tooth fairy is going to hold a gun to the head of the Jew baker to force him to bake the Nazi cake?
    88 replies | 1000 view(s)
  • GunnyFreedom's Avatar
    Today, 12:23 AM
    Maybe the reason we haven't fixed it yet is because I'm the one who's got it right and too many folks like you don't get it. I've never heard it, and even if I had, every *other* sentence is another expansion of fedgov power in the name of some social liberal god.
    88 replies | 1000 view(s)
  • GunnyFreedom's Avatar
    Today, 12:12 AM
    What does "Laughs in Libertarian" even mean?
    130 replies | 4073 view(s)
  • GunnyFreedom's Avatar
    Yesterday, 11:57 PM
    So nothing like what they claim is actually in the platform, just a random article on their website written by an anonymous admin?
    86 replies | 935 view(s)
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