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    With regards to abortion and euthanasia, Pope John Paul II wrote in Evangelium Vitae:

    Abortion and euthanasia are thus crimes which no human law can claim to legitimize. There is no obligation in conscience to obey such laws; instead there is a grave and clear obligation to oppose them by conscientious objection. From the very beginnings of the Church, the apostolic preaching reminded Christians of their duty to obey legitimately constituted public authorities (cf. Rom 13:1-7; 1 Pt 2:13-14), but at the same time it firmly warned that "we must obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29).
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    And more:

    The citizen is obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order, to the fundamental rights of persons or the teachings of the Gospel. Refusing obedience to civil authorities, when their demands are contrary to those of an upright conscience, finds its justification in the distinction between serving God and serving the political community. "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesarís, and to God the things that are Godís." "We must obey God rather than men":

    When citizens are under the oppression of a public authority which oversteps its competence, they should still not refuse to give or to do what is objectively demanded of them by the common good; but it is legitimate for them to defend their own rights and those of their fellow citizens against the abuse of this authority within the limits of the natural law and the law of the gospel. (2242)
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    Here are some of the relevant sections from the Catechism when it comes to civil disobedience:

    Authority does not derive its moral legitimacy from itself. It must not behave in a despotic manner, but must act for the common good as a moral force based on freedom and a sense of responsibility: A human law has the character of law to the extent that it accords with right reason, and thus derives from the eternal law. Insofar as it falls short of right reason it is said to be an unjust law, and thus has not so much the nature of law as of a kind of violence. (1902)

    Authority is exercised legitimately only when it seeks the common good of the group concerned and if it employs morally licit means to attain it. If rulers were to enact unjust laws or take measures contrary to the moral order, such arrangements would not be binding in conscience. In such a case, authority breaks down completely and results in shameful abuse. (1903)
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    I think I posted it once before on the forum when we were discussing the morality of the American Revolution. I'll look up the relevant sections of the Catechism and any other Church documents I can find on the subject.
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    The problem here is that the only people that have the philosophical approach that you're describing to consider the overall scheme illegitimate is libertarians in general. The vast majority of those that end up in the cops' crosshairs are those that likely aren't angels themselves and thus have brought themselves knowingly or unknowingly into a crash course with them. The govt won't crumble as long as the people writ large still use their money and believe in their system. The most likely method of this concept panning out prior to libertarians winning elections to significantly change things from the bottom up or the top down is Bitcoin fleecing interest in the current financial system. The FSP was setup for such a similar way of life but even that kind of realization doesn't come overnight and likely takes more than a lifetime. Principles can't flourish in this current environment w/o some pragmatism to get the ball rolling in our direction. had to crop cuz message was too long
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    The thing is, times are ripe for more libertarians to be elected to help pare back the scales of govt and then keep accelerating this as it proves itself to be more beneficial in the peoples' eyes. The less resources the police have, the more accountability will be required of them. Elections are tests of the masses and what they're down for. For me, I see the police quite regularly in my daily life and they always act professionally. All I can say is PDs are affected by political pressure and if libertarians have more say in office, the more affect they can have over the police through politics and media pressure.
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    Seems like a preaching to the choir exercise. Speed limits aren't really my thing as I normally follow them almost to a T, tho I used to drive fast when I was closer to your age. Again, the whole cop thing is what it is and unless you get more libertarian republican reps and senators in your legislature, then there won't be any political weight being mounted to reign in police standards and bad behavior.
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    Yeah, no problem. Have a good night.
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    Pretty well. But there were probably only like 40 people there. It's a small church.
  10. Forgot to delete the "sent" messages....try now.
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I'm Done

by Christian Liberty on 07-27-2013 at 06:53 PM
I'm so sick of seeing "Support our troops" or even worse "Fighting for our freedoms."

During a trip to Word of Life for a week of camp I saw a bumper sticker that said "God bless our troops, especially our snipers."

Usually, when trying to prove a point about war, I don't discuss the troops. I'll probably continue to do this. One teacher I had was open minded to listening to what I had to say about war, but had a father who had served in

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