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  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    Yesterday, 05:00 PM
    I think it likely more valuable and beneficial, more congruent with Liberty-Responsibility as an Indivisible whole to recognize the validity of Mises' wisdom over that of Rothbard, Locke and Hoppe. Although all were insightful and offered something germane to the topic. And on that note, I'm gonna add to my sigline while I'm thinking of it. And it's one to grow on, for sure. Thought through all the way, it's actually pertinent to your cause, Pierz. It really is. It's the latter part that causes the conundrum. It's the latter part which invites a State-like presence into any culture or voluntary society. I'm done with the thread. As was said, people are free to practice voluntary socialism. Libertarianism permits for it so long as it's absent the use of force whether it be force by any written rule or force by sword. Good luck with it.
    85 replies | 896 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:47 PM
    They exist naturally because you are of Divine Origin. The Creator's Law dictates that your rights are Natural. That's why your rights are Natural Rights. Man did not create himself. It's a losing game, Pierz. You cannot win. Although, it is admirable that you do try. Locke openly professed that rights could be defined by the State, too. And he was openly fine with it. Did you know that, Pierz? Because Man is of Divine origin and religious in nature, he is of supreme value and importance compared with things material. That's my view on it. We can disagree.
    85 replies | 896 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    Yesterday, 03:17 PM
    The most confounding, observable, problem that is witnessed quite a bit, particularly when listening to or reading the words of new age self-defined libertarians (more often these are merely confused libertines, however) is that property rights are only understood or accepted so far as the right to possess material things alone. To their credit, this shortcoming is not their fault. It's just the simple fact of not knowing something. Although it does present a conflict of interest when accompanied by arrogance in ignorance. Property rights are much more than the right of possessing a material thing. A lot of people stop right there. This is a mistake. Man's God-given rights in general are his property. Man has not only a right to physical, material, property, but a God-given property in his rights themselves. And the shortcoming in grasping this fundamental fact is where trustees in voluntary socialism fall short of their own bull pucky. To repeat: Man possesses a God-given right to the property of his rights beyond his right to physical, material things. No means exists in the voluntary socialist's form of society which would protect this specific right of the Individual. The right of The One to the property of his Individual, God-given rights as an Indivisible whole.
    85 replies | 896 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    Yesterday, 01:24 PM
    Well, I disagree, Pierz. In fact, the only real clarity here seems to be that it's you who does not understand. And that's okay. We're here to learn, right? I'll explain it for you with a mixture of my own words and a few references from a very good book on the topic specifically. Man, The Individual, is endowed at birth with rights which are unalienable because they are given by his Creator. More clearly, Man's rights are unalienable based solely upon the belief in their Divine origin. In other words, Pierz, Liberty does not exist in a secular vacuum. Just as Man alone cannot originate life, man alone cannot obtain Liberty without Divine sanction. Divine saction is Liberty's primary foundation for moral code. This primary foundation for moral code is what endows you with your right to claim its benefits. You see? Now. Lacking this belief, which it appears that you do lack, there is no moral basis for any claim that one's Natural, God-given rights are unalienable for any claim to the benefits following this concept. Do you understand that? God-given rights are Natural Rights, possessed by Man under the Laws of God's creation and therefore by gift of God.
    85 replies | 896 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 09:11 PM
    I'm sorry, TER.
    21 replies | 523 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 08:35 PM
    Liberty-Responsibility is obscure. Libertinism has taken over and claimed libertarianism's identity. I get this stuff from knowing what I'm talking about. Ask any real anarchist what he thinks about capitalism and get back to me. Any real anarchist worth his weight in keystrokes will argue that there are capitalist transactions which are not voluntary. He'll argue that in order to maintain the structure of a capitalist society that it will require coercion which ultimately would violate anarchist principles. Ron Paul doesn't need to specifically say the words anyway. It should be commonly understood by anyone who is actually knowledgeable on the subject of Liberty-Responsibility. Respectfully, Origanalist, the fact that you even ask me where I dream this stuff up tells me that you do not understand Liberty-Responsibility. It tells me that you likely do not really understand the ism which you've inserted into discussion. Unfortunately, it just confirms my first thought in my response here. Sad. I'll tell you, man, it's really getting to the point that in order to truthfully and effectively educate people on matters of Liberty-Responsibility, we have to go against our own in order to do so. Reason being is that it's our own who have bastardized it and turned it into a libertine circus.
    85 replies | 896 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 07:02 PM
    Also, pull the modems out of your old dialup computers. Dank reminded me of that.
    44 replies | 988 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 07:00 PM
    I keep a 6 month supply of food and water and other necessities in case we have a solar flare or some other planetary mishap.
    44 replies | 988 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 06:37 PM
    Hey, O. Thank You. Really. I share Ron Paul's position on it. Anarchy is voluntary socialism. So how is it that you think anarchy is non-socialist? Libertarianism gives full legal protection for anarchy (voluntary socialism.) That's okay with me so long as you're a true libertarian and have rejected the use of force because, then I don't have to worry about you. If you want to get together and have voluntary socialism, then, you're allowed to do that. But..I should be allowed to opt out. And therein lies the problem. Voluntary socialism is so inefficient that the socialists already know that their system is going to fail so they use the force of a government gun to come and take money and property from the people who aren't socialists in order to subsidize their program. Now, while Libertarianism allows for voluntary socialism, the socialists will never endorse the idea of you having your personal liberty where you can take care of yourself and not ask for anything from anyone else. Really, I'm just quoting our namesake here.
    85 replies | 896 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 06:10 PM
    Anyway. Rev, you've got more patience for the riff raff than I do. Have fun.
    85 replies | 896 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 06:09 PM
    Go color.
    85 replies | 896 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 06:08 PM
    The right to property is an indispensable, material support, of your God-given, unalienable rights to Liberty. That's the correct way to word it.
    85 replies | 896 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 05:58 PM
    You haven't even attempted to touch any argument I've made here.
    85 replies | 896 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 05:56 PM
    Property is the principal material support of a man's God-given, unalienable, rights. Your rights to life and liberty do not come from your warez. They come from God. You have your warez because God gave you the right to them. You did not give you the right to them. And you do not decide another man's unalienable rights to life and liberty.
    85 replies | 896 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 05:46 PM
    This is why nobody takes libertarians seriously. This is why we're always at the receiving end of everybody's jokes.
    85 replies | 896 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 05:38 PM
    You're going to have a State regardless. This is what you people aren't understanding. In a socialist society, the socialist is going to come take your property at the barrel of a gun. Reason why is because he knows that his hierarchy is going to fail and he needs your wealth and your property in order to support his program. The socialist will never accept your right to take care of yourself and to not need anything from anyone. Never. There's no opting out.
    85 replies | 896 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 05:37 PM
    Oh, good. Welcom to my boobie trap. So, then, Natural Law is out the window because the anarchist's form of heirarchy permits for the murder a human being since his right tolife was dictated by economic justification? Do you see what you're saying here? I mean, really. Do you?
    85 replies | 896 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 05:30 PM
    To repeat what Rev has said here, every social order, including anarcho-capitalism, is maintained by force.
    85 replies | 896 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 05:22 PM
    Remember that song, Zip? I feel the Earth move unda muh knees... Anyway. They better quit fracking and pumping around all of these fault lines. That's just begging for some drama.
    13 replies | 135 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 05:17 PM
    Pierz, you didn't answer my question, bud. Wuh hah hapen wuh, I had asked if a guy is hanging onto your pole in order to save his own life, are you justified in knocking him off of it just because it's your pole? So. Are you? Yes or no? It's a rather direct question. Second part of the question was that, if so, then what primary foundation for moral code gives you that justification to dictate such? You didn't answer that question either.
    85 replies | 896 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 05:03 PM
    Does a frog bump his ass on the rocks?
    13 replies | 135 view(s)
  • Natural Citizen's Avatar
    09-19-2017, 04:45 PM
    Already did. As always, dutchsinse is on top of it. There has been a series of 3.6 activity all day on the west coast and around the mid-west. L.A. also had a 3.8 last night. Illinois, too. Pumping activity near the major fault lines.....
    13 replies | 135 view(s)
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