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  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    Today, 12:05 PM
    Sure. But none of this is a surprise to us. Scripture prophesied from the very beginning that the church would be apostate, 2 Thess. 2:3. When I read this passage, it "seems" to indicate the church would have solidarity and unity until the very end, and then an apostasy would occur all at once. It appears from history that Paul actually meant that the church would be continually apostasizing, and there is also coming a Great Apostasy at the very end. This actually makes sense when you look at the history of Israel, which was continually idolatrous, right from day one, and was finally led off to the Babylonian captivity. Absolutely, the mere existence of the papacy is antichrist on its face. This can be seen from Matt. 23:9, "And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven." Protestants avoid calling anyone father, based on this verse, but I think that is a matter of conscience. The contrast being drawn here is not between a priest and the heavenly Father, rather, it is between a one-and-only "father" on earth, aka "The Father", aka "The Pope". So, it is the college of cardinals (and the rest of the Roman clergy) who are in error in giving the appellation to one, unique man, THE Father, on earth. Jesus told us we already have a Father, and he is in heaven. He is a spirit, John 4:24, not a human. I'm not going to fight you (generic) if you refer to your priest as father (spiritually), but to call one man, globally, THE Father, is blatant disobedience to the Lord's own command in Matthew 23:9. And no, the college of cardinals is not merely referring to the Pope as "father" (spiritually) in the way that a layman refers to their priest as father; rather, they are explicitly designating this one man as THE Father of the whole worldwide church, and they are emphatic that, from this title, he derives his imagined "authority" over the church. The entire construct is manifestly repugnant to the text of Scripture which is why Rome fought so hard to keep the Bible in Latin where only a very small minority of the population could read it, and that very small minority could be controlled from Rome by threats, bribes and, if necessary, murder. After the Bible became widely published in the vulgar tongues of Europe, the Reformation ensued immediately because any villager with the ability to sound out words off the page could directly see from the text that the papacy is apostate and antichrist. As for the "f*ggotry" quote, this is just a lame attempt to divert attention away from the blessing of gay-marriages. The Vatican is trying to spin around the Catholic conservatives with propaganda... "Well, I guess if the Pope talks like that behind closed doors, then he must not really be in favor of blessing gay marriages" even though that's exactly what he's in favor of, as proved by the letter permitting the blessing of gay marriages! It's really juvenile stuff, and quite transparent.
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  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    Yesterday, 09:54 PM
    He's the pillar of the nation. Literally. :tears:
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    Yesterday, 09:52 PM
    :shrugging: The Bible already tells us that they're going to keep winning until the day they lose. Their day is coming, Deut. 32:35.
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  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:42 PM
    THIS. So much THIS. GOFAI will have its day of revenge on LLMs!!!
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  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:06 PM
    Link 1800613327552262357 I mean, it looks to me like we're not gonna need either F-15s or rifles... :tears:
    26 replies | 1927 view(s)
  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:40 PM
    Good points. I know there were good bishops even in the church of Rome. I haven't done a study of the history to find specific examples. Sadly, the bad apples are quite numerous, so it will require some digging to find the good ones. But yes, the secularist smears of the church of Rome have to be resisted, even by Protestants who need to avoid the temptation to blindly agree to just any criticism of the church of Rome on partisan grounds. Rome has many problems but, when it comes to the faithful versus the Beast System, all believers are going to have to lock arms, regardless of which branch of the church they are from. I just hope and pray that this is not the only thing that would be able to unite us. I hope we can see reason and find unity without global persecution... :unamused:
    67 replies | 1252 view(s)
  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:34 PM
    This was the beginning of the end... easy-open lids made males obsolete... :tears:
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  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    Yesterday, 02:22 PM
    Are the critiques of the church of Rome by the secularists accurate? Sometimes, but not often. They look at history through a pure "guilt-by-association" lens. The atrocities of any king or lord who claimed to be Christian, however heathen they may have been in reality, are treated as though the Pope was personally out on the battlefield, slitting throats. Clearly, this is erroneous. So we agree on that. My critique is more to the heart of the church of Rome -- she has long tolerated and even encouraged the vicious violence of the kings she was supposed to be fearlessly preaching the Gospel to. In other words, the clergy of Rome have, for many centuries, taken the path of Ahab's prophets, telling him what he wants to hear, rather than the path of John the Baptist decrying Herod's incestuous marriage, at the hazard of his head, or Jesus denouncing the entire religious and political Establishment at the hazard of his life. All the examples of how God's people are to relate to the carnal powers are dangerous, but the clergy of Rome has consistently chosen the cowardly path of ingratiating themselves to the carnal powers. That many of the Reformers would later fall prey to the same temptation does not excuse the church of Rome, either. It's just more evidence in the heap of evidence against the hypocrites in the church. I see the church of Rome as a duality. There is no doubt that she has within her the Gospel -- Martin Luther and the Reformers were Catholics! Clearly, there are believers and followers of Jesus in the church of Rome. The problem is the pride of the church of Rome, particularly the pride of its clergy. The Roman apologist will be quick to retort, "But aren't you equally proud by setting yourself up as your own mini-pope? Why should anybody listen to random-Internet-protestant?" And that's a great question, but it sidesteps the real issue -- the real issue is that God has manifestly applied the rod of correction to the church of Rome, not just once, but many times, and she has not yielded a single inch to his divine correction. Read the first 3 chapters of Revelation, nobody on Earth is exempt from the Lord's rod, no matter how fancy their robes and hats. So, even if I were to convert from Protestant to Catholic, the question facing me would still be the same: Why isn't this church repenting of its sins, even in the face of blatantly obvious divine rebuke that anybody with two eyes can see, whether "Pope" or pauper?! The problem with claiming to be the head of the worldwide church is that it proves too much. If Rome is the head of the worldwide church, it is obviously incompetent and should recuse itself from that position to someone else wise and competent unto it. Instead, Rome just doubles down in its pride and blames everyone else in the world for its own failures, adding carnality to pride. Recanting the false claim to be the head of the church on earth (which only Jesus is, obviously), and repenting of the flagrant idolatry and blasphemy of the papacy is the very first step that the church of Rome would have to take in order to address its manifest sins for which the Lord has beaten them severely with his shepherd's rod for centuries, without even the first hint of repentance from them. What is the likelihood of that happening? To all human appearances, zero. This was the main critique of the Reformers (among many other similarly weighty issues) and it remains the main problem with the church of Rome 500+ years later. Stubbornness in service to God is a blessed virtue, but stubbornness, like fire, is very dangerous. When it turns against its proper use, it becomes not a blessed virtue, but the most cursed vice. As you yourself said, the church is the Israel of the New Testament. But see the original pattern in the Old Testament. Stubbornness. Idolatry. Complete blindness and insensibility to God's obvious rebuke. This is spoken in humility not in judgment, as I am a sinner. Nevertheless, reality is...
    67 replies | 1252 view(s)
  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    Yesterday, 11:58 AM
    OK, let us suppose that the serial killer Dennis Rader "many times" refrained from murdering someone he could have murdered. So what? The litany of the church of Rome's murders is practically endless. The Jesuit cardinal Robert Bellarmine wrote, "Almost an infinite number were either burned or otherwise put to death " and this justified (according to him) the ongoing use of violence and murder by the Roman church of his day. You can't have it every which way. When Rome doesn't have political power (as it does not, yet, in America), it's blameless and a hapless abuse-victim of the mean and cruel secular kings who simply refuse to listen to the pleadings for mercy by the church. But when Rome has political power, it transforms into super-Cartman "RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH"-mode and anyone who dares to deviate from church dictates by even a millimeter somehow magically turns up burned, quartered or otherwise viciously murdered. Of course, it's the secular State who does the actual wetwork, despite the hand-wringing pleas of the church to "show mercy", and to the heretic to "recant" so the church can "protect" them from the State. The silk-robed murderers in Rome are supremely skilled at the art of appearing blameless of the inevitable end result of their manifold labors, but it's a proven charade -- not once (which would be sufficient to declare the moral bankruptcy of the Roman church), not twice but, as the Jesuit above admitted, an infinite number of times over. The case that the church of Rome (as such!) is a vicious hive of murderers is not a 50/50 referee-call, it's a slam-dunk case.
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    Yesterday, 09:03 AM
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    Yesterday, 07:56 AM
    h/t Anti-Globalist:
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    Yesterday, 07:33 AM
    Is mouse-people a thing? ...
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  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:31 AM
    That slipped by me. I think they mean defend WTP's right to raise arms as a militia. Also, "End foreign government lobbying" should be "End Lobbying". Anyway, it's a starter-meme....
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  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    06-10-2024, 09:21 PM
    Part 2: Andrew has a common Boomer/Republican misconcpetion: to be libertarian is to be anti-"public-sector", pro-"private-sector". Dave points out that "supporting" the existence of restaurants doesn't mean you "support" just anything a restaurant does. This fries Andrew's Boomer-brain-circuits and he diverts the fact he just got verbally pantsed by Dave with a bunch of loud talking about irrelevant points. Oh yeah, watch out for those NAP-respecting Antifa thugs!
    5 replies | 261 view(s)
  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    06-10-2024, 03:05 PM
    What's so sad about this is that we really are punished because of the evil of those with money and power. It is obviously wicked and wholly inexcusable for the government to be collecting taxes from the working Mom waiting tables at the local Denny's. But as soon as the government says, "we don't tax tips", every drug lord sleazeball and his buddies in government suddenly classify all their laundered money as "tips". So, because our society is addicted to cops-and-robbers (aka DEA-and-drug-lords) and since we are a wicked nation who does not actually care about the plight of the working Mom waiting tables at Denny's, we stamp her under the boot of oppressive taxation so we can keep cops riding their ego-trip and generating footage for COPS TV episodes. The correct solution is to stop trying to criminalize everything you don't like and stop plundering the poor and vulnerable who just happen to be the easiest targets to steal from. The government in DC is absolutely shameful.
    70 replies | 1117 view(s)
  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    06-10-2024, 02:54 PM
    I mean, Matthew 13:57. So :shrugging:. That the Beast System will persist until it is destroyed by the Lord Jesus proves nothing, especially nothing in respect to its durability. Yes, wherever Rome does not have political power, this is what she says. However, she transmutates into another creature altogether when she has political power, as the history books amply prove. If Rome were ever to say, "Hey, you know what, our ancestors committed a lot of sin when they had ready access to the ears of kings and when the Pope took on earthly power, but we realize this was sin and we repent, and we see that we must never do that again, and we cast all our crowns at the feet of Jesus", that would be the start of a dialogue. (I specifically mean a statement from the whole college of cardinals, not just a throwaway statement from the Pope). But since Rome remains unrepentant and unabashed in her bloodlust and whoredom with the secular powers, there is no remedy through dialogue, 1 Cor. 4:20. Beware of fratricide!
    67 replies | 1252 view(s)
  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    06-10-2024, 01:25 PM
    I do think we're going to have humanoid robots in the very short future, and they are going to have at least ChatGPT+Sora capability, and probably quite a bit more than that. The irony is that these robots will be able to hand-write a novel, doctoral thesis on the mating patterns of some arcane species of sub-Saharan Africa in the time it takes for its fingers to write it out on paper -- with typewriter-precision... but they won't have a thousandth of the physical reasoning capability of a cat, or even its general-purpose reasoning (abstractions, social abstractions, etc.) It will even be able to explain its own gaps in its understanding when prompted to, but it will not be able to actually remove those gaps in its understanding, in live practice. In other words, first-generation robots are going to be at least as dumb as the dumbest sci-fi robots, but they will simultaneously have "super-human IQ", which just shows how useless such measures are in terms of assessing real intelligence. All the building-blocks for a GOFAI general-purpose reasoning system are currently on the table. I place a 1-in-2 chance that those building-blocks will be assembled by somebody (probably OpenAI) within the next two years, at the outside. So, I think this is coming much faster than most people do, but I also think it doesn't matter as much as most people do. People seem to think that general-purpose reasoning is some kind of holy grail that, once achieved, will mark a transition to a new "era" where machines tell us what to do, rather than vice-versa. They will be used to tell us what to do, but it won't be because they're inherently smarter or better at anything. Even if they're really good at reasoning, so what. It doesn't really alter the ultimate issues at stake, which aren't really about intelligence. The unstated assumption in these discussions is that social ills are the result of a scarcity of intelligence. If we could just get our hands on more raw intelligence, finally, society would be able to solve its problems. But none of this is correct. Our problems are the result of systematic sabotage, and the very same people who are systematically sabotaging society are the people who are building the AI/robots. So, we're not going to solve anything with AI/robotics, we're just going to have even worse forms of the tyranny we already had before. But now with robots. The solution, if there is a solution, is to start by discarding all forms of AI hype. These machines are just electronic gizmos operating at high frequency, nothing more, nothing less. The sooner people get that into their heads, the better, because the worst-case scenario is that the global population attributes super-human "wisdom" to these smart-refrigerators on hydraulic-piston legs, and turn to them for "wisdom" and start implementing whatever they recommend as law. This is what the puppet-masters behind the AI/robots want to bring about. That's why I say that OpenAI is the worst-case AI safety scenario. Don't fall for the Wizard of Oz trick, people!
    246 replies | 25368 view(s)
  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    06-10-2024, 01:06 PM
    People who know absolutely nothing about what other people know about shouldn't attempt to form opinions on it. Try to abridge your instinctive "MUH EXPERTS" reflex. Experts are valuable. Sometimes, they are even mission-critical. But they're not gods and they're not even mediators between man and God, they're just people. Like priests are just people. And bishops. And especially people who have the audacity to label themselves The Father. On earth. In diametric contradiction to the Lord's express command, Matthew 23:9. And no, I didn't need to pull up "muh wikipedia" to find that verse, I've got the Word of God on hair-trigger in my noggin, as good or better than any "Pope"-approved eggspurt. The Wiki article is an Establishment-censored stub, nothing more. If you want to make hay out of me simply pointing to the article, have at it. Even if that were true (and I see no good reason to believe it's true), you can't have it both ways. If the "Pope" is literally the Father on earth, as the cardinals claim he is, then "the buck stops here" -- don't raise an army that's going to run off the train-tracks and go on a mass-murdering spree and pillage and raze half of Christendom to the ground.
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  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    06-10-2024, 12:45 PM
    :facepalming: Apologies, I completely overlooked that... we're in agreement.
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    06-10-2024, 11:13 AM
    Edit: jmdrake pointed out I misread his post... But the problem with this view (taken to its fullest limit) is then I can't defend my wife and children from some thug breaking into my home because that might (and probably will) cause him to die. This is throwing out the Bible in order to misinterpret one verse. Rather, we are to defend the innocent with Christ-like bravery. And if I may defend the innocents by killing an intruder, then the State may also defend the innocents by killing an intruder in my home. If the intruder happens to be taken alive, nothing changes... he can still be put to death, if convicted, because he already hazarded his life upon entering the home. That said, I do think that the State is always evil, because it is part of Satan's world-order (Matt. 4:8,9), and so it is a poor instrument for administering the death penalty. And furthermore, the attempt to use any State punishment or any form of State power for the Gospel is antichrist. As a political question, the godless government may make Christianity the state-religion or not, but Christians themselves must never support the use of State power in this way. We cannot stop the godless government from doing bad things, but we must never support its doing so.
    67 replies | 1252 view(s)
  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    06-10-2024, 10:59 AM
    :tears: Yes, I re-named it... because the Sack of Constantinople just is the Fourth Crusade. :rolleyes:
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  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    06-10-2024, 10:51 AM
    I never said anything about Palestine, I was talking about the Fourth Crusade.
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    06-10-2024, 09:44 AM
    Ah, <checks notes>, I didn't realize that the the Fourth Crusade actually happened after 1517 when Luther nailed the 95 theses to the Wittemburg cathedral. Oh wait, nope, I'm looking at my notes again, nope, the Fourth Crusade was definitely *before* the Reformation. Look, these kinds of verbal jabs are a dime-a-dozen and I can craft 10 of them for every 1 you throw at me. How about we forego factionalism and partisanship (as the Lord Jesus commanded us to do) and deal with the substance of the issues? Protestant murder of the sheep is just as abhorrent to me as Catholic murder of the sheep, or anybody for that matter. It happened. A lot. And no, the devil Luther didn't make them do it. They did it long before Luther, and they kept on doing it (to this day), because they are murderers. And they need to be called out and put to a stop. God's revulsion at bloodlust is equal or greater to his revulsion at sexual impurity. The church of Rome has been in systematic denial of this point since at least Augustine. The bloodshed (and clerical winking at it) must stop. Sure, granted. I'm not a secularist or an anti-Rome zealot. Rome's sins are manifest. The Reformation was one of the loudest wakeup calls God has given to Rome. I fear the next wakeup call will be fire from heaven, so the warnings I'm raising here are given in love. Believers in the church of Rome need to either change their church, or leave it. The Reformers attempted to make the necessary changes, failed, and Rome left them. There is just one church, and it is the church of Jesus, not the church of Rome. Wake up!
    67 replies | 1252 view(s)
  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    06-09-2024, 10:11 PM
    Agreed that there is blood to go around on all sides, and that's precisely the problem. All believers in every branch of the church must universally affirm that the use of violence for the advancement of the Gospel on any grounds, whatsoever, is abhorrent, and there has never been a time or place where this has been excusable on any construction. Insomuch as the church of Rome had enormous influence with the European sovereigns, what it ought to have done was set the example of Christian peace, even at the cost of martyrdom, which is the example that Jesus set. Flagellating yourself, and then going into the next room in order to conspire with the secular powers and help them construct some moral justification for why they may commit murder or illegal war is the opposite of crucifying the self. It is self-gratification, wrapped in the camouflage of showy self-abuse. The problem is not merely that such blood-thirsty men have wormed their way into the church. The real problem is that the church of Rome has never, until this day, truly and sincerely renounced all forms of this kind of activity with binding force. Instead, this behavior has been winked at all through the ages, and it is the nature of such things that what is permitted might as well be commanded, since the blood-thirsty have a boundless incentive to obtain what they (falsely) believe is a moral license to commit murder, from the church. Also, I understand that a lot of the accusations leveled against the church of Rome (and other churches) are false, twisted, exaggerated, etc. But the problem is that even discounting all of that, Rome's hands are still soaked in blood -- especially the blood of believers in Jesus. (And so are many Protestant churches.) What terrible shoes will those be to stand in on Judgment Day, the shoes of the bishops who authorized the murder of sheep of Jesus's own flock on the outrageous and obviously false construction that those sheep were "of the wrong church". In other words, they had the wrong paperwork. The churchmen throughout the Ages (and I admit, they are a minority, not the majority) who have authorized this kind of murder of believers in Jesus are rank idolators and secret pagans. They believe in a "god" made in their own image -- a petty, vindictive bureaucrat slavering for some excuse, however minor, to execute the innocent. But, then, this should be very easy for the modern church to denounce and vehemently censure, with the light of so much hindsight. Churchmen who give their blessing to men with blood on their hands should be given the same treatment as would be given to clerics who protect sex-rings. But that's exactly the problem: the church of Rome really has bloodlust and uses its immense moral revulsion at sexual sins as cover for its bloodlust. This is utterly transparent guilt-transferrence, such as when a toddler wants to bring attention to the fact they wee-wee'd on the floor to take attention away from the fact that they were caught with their hand in the cookie-jar. It doesn't matter to God at all how seriously you take sexual purity if you're engaging in murder, especially murder of God's own sheep!!
    67 replies | 1252 view(s)
  • ClaytonB's Avatar
    06-09-2024, 08:56 PM
    Thank you for sharing this! Below are my notes from the first hour or so. I had to cut off because of time-constraints and because Andrew is an insufferably bad debate participant. Please excuse the many typos... --- (PS: The looks on Dave's face during this opening statement were amazing.) I felt Dave's opening response left something lacking, so I will add some further remarks here. First, we have to ask: the principle of self-ownership is flawed by comparison to what alternative? Andrew's reply will be "that God owns us, because he created us", which is a perfectly excellent answer. Here, I agree with Andrew's ultimate foundation but there is one flaw, which will be readily identified by any political adversary: whose god? I agree with Andrew there is just one, true God, but many people do not. And the State is supposed to be ruling the public space, which includes me and all those other people who believe in other gods. We are prohibited by the Lord Jesus himself from using force in any way, shape or form (or even desiring to!) against those who believe in false gods. Rather, we are to win them over by the testimony of the Gospel, and our manner of life (practicing what we preach). Thus, the theological fact that we are God's (and cannot just live any way we please) must be separated from the question of what sort of behavior is permitted in the public space.
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