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  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 01:07 PM
    Yes. That is why I was sure to write down that the Holy Scriputres are the ultimate written authority, and why I explained that it is the Holy Spirit which gives anything in creation authority, including the Scriptures and the Church. I agree. Thankfully, God established a Church in which the gates of hell would not overcome so that the wolves in sheep clothing and false prophets might be revealed when they teach things against what the saints before them taught and the holy matrys died confessing. If that is the way you understand religion, then I agree, it is similar.
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 11:33 AM
    The Holy Scriptures are the ultimate written authority. But the Holy Spirit, Who is God of God, gives it this authority, just as the Holy Spirit gave the first council in Jerusalem it's authority. The Scriptures can unfortunately be misinterpreted and mistranslated. In order to discern the correct interpretation and correct understanding, we must above all pray for the Holy Spirit to enlighten us, and then seek the Church, which St. Paul says, is the pillar and foundation for truth. This is what St. Paul did and what he and the Apostles taught. It is easy for us to individually misinterpret something (because our framework and knowledge and wisdom is limited to our own personal experience, and we are sinful and imperfect beings), that is why we must seek the community of the faithful and especially the pious and graced amongst them, and seek what their voices say, to learn what the consensus and voice of the Church is. This is what St. Paul did after his conversion. Although he was graced by the Holy Spirit and baptized and beheld the risen Lord, he still travelled to Jerusalem to consult with those who were the leaders of the faith, those who were before him, so that he would not preach in vain things he believed which were actually against the witness of the Church and the teaching of the saints. Though full of zeal and purpose, reborn a Christian true believer, and graced with the Holy Spirit from God on high, he still understood the importance of self-examination and humility and obedience to those before and above him. We may believe we are inspired by the Holy Spirit, but our own passions and desires can also cloud our thoughts and distance us from truth. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Truth and not division. So, when we believe or interpret something which is different from what the voice of the Church proclaims and has proclaimed, we must be ever cautious lest we are preaching a new gospel and distancing ourselves further from the truth and that holy communion. There is no religion in Christianity. There is a way of life, which is as a member of the body of Christ, the Church, which is the communion of united believers around Christ Himself. Christ said He came to establish His Church, which is to be His Bride in the culmination of this age. We should then take seriously, as St. Paul did, and as all the holy men and women since the day of Pentecost did, to deny ourselves, humble ourselves, and in faith and trust, enter into this communion, united in mind, spirit, and flesh, as one body partaking in one divine and sacramental love which is the Holy Trinity. For this is the Kingdom of Heaven, as taught by the Saints, to be united with God.
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Today, 09:26 AM
    Thank you! I guess the next questions is, what scriptures were they studying? As there was no official canon of Scripture for the Jews at that time, I would guess it included the Prophetical books, the Psalms, and the Wisdom books in addition to the Torah. St. Paul was a Pharisee (who were regarded as the most noble of the Jewish sects, notwithstanding that Christ reprimanded them about hypocrisy), and they held on to the dual authority of the Written Law (the Torah) and the Oral Law (the traditions and teachings and other revered texts from the fathers and holy men before them). Likewise, within the Christian Church, the Holy Bible is authoritative (the most, it can be argued) as are also the teachings of the Saints and Holy Traditions which followed the time period of the Scriptures and which the believers have held to be God-pleasing, God-inspired and beneficial to the faithful.
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 09:18 PM
    I think she comes back repentant and saves Winterfell.
    407 replies | 15135 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 08:07 PM
    I don't understand. Who are the Bereans and what did they check against what? The Church is full of sinners. Christ did not say that there would not be troubles or difficulties. In fact, He warned them it would be the case. That the forces of hell try to destroy the Church, that is a given. This group of men and women and children called the Church has had to endure through innumerable challenges and pressures and sinful people doing sinful things both within and without. What distinguishes Her, however, is that She is not overcome, as Christ promised. Look then and learn where such a Church exists, whose saints span every era, through the rise and fall of Empires and Kingdoms, through glory and subjugation, in basilicas and in chains, through every century going back, and then from them, learn the correct doctrines so that you too might be worthy to become a martyr for Christ.
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:51 PM
    The Holy Spirit is what intervened in the Council of Jerusalem (the first recorded synod). Likewise, He has continued to act within the life and experiences of the Church. Even after the last page of the Book of Acts.
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:46 PM
    The Scriptures are one long history of switches from not only institutional polity, but from Convenants! The acts of the Apostle's did not end on the last page of Acts. But even there, we find the forming of the ecclesiology of the Christian Church, that by the turn of the century, when Apostles still lived, the basic structure (which is still used in the Orhodox Church) is appearing. Namely, one Bishop per city. And because of this conciliar and synodical structure, the Church has remained united even from the first century, because the Head is Jesus Christ. Not hidden, or underground, but visibly and outwardly, whose real Saints shed real blood on the earth to witness to the faith of their fathers.
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:58 PM
    Exactly, which is why the Church developed into one Bishop over a geographical area. To prevent factionalism and to protect the deposit of the truth, as guardians of the truth, in the communion of the Saints, in the eschaton as the people of God, in the Kingdom of Heaven. The Church developed its synodical system by the grace of the Holy Spirit. This was the movement of the Holy Spirit, the work of God, working within the body. It was the people of God uniting in order and faith and confession, speaking against the current of this sinful age.
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
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  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 05:24 PM
    Interestingly, there were Bishops over cities by the end of the first century (especially in those missionary ones in far away lands and in the Roman Empire), though it is true that until that time there could be more than one bishop in a city. We do find, however, by the end of the second century, and going into the third and after, singular Christian Bishops over cities or one geographical area had become widely practiced. Why do you think that happened?
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 05:17 PM
    You can chose your sources, and I can chose mine! :) Let's go back to the second century saints as I think it will help shed light on what Christians mean by 'Apostolic succession' and the ecclesiastical structure of the growing Church in the first centuries.
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 05:12 PM
    Actually, St. Patrick was ordained by the Church in Rome which was part of the One Church at that time (there was a Pentarchy of Patriarchates, and Rome was one of them).
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 05:03 PM
    Please, name them. Would you like to discuss St. Ignatius? I think he says some things which contradicts what you have written above. Or St. Ireneaus? St. Cyril? Who is the model you look for to what the Church believed and practiced in the second and third centuries?
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 05:01 PM
    Erowe, can you name me a Christian of the second century? Also, we have discussed before the ancient writings, including the Holy Bible, which demonstrates that God's grace is active in ordination. Indeed, as Christians, we know it is the Holy Spirit which is transferred, which are explicitly said to happen in writings of the first centuries. Now, if you can name some the Christians who followed after the Apostle's, then we might be able to learn what Bishop and presbyters and deacon meant to mean to the Christian Church at that early time.
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:50 PM
    When Presbyterianism was created after the Reformation in the British Isles, there existed other ancient cities whose Bishops were from the One, Holy, Catholic Church as called by the First Ecumenical Council, and ordained in a direct line of succession from the Apostles, around a common faith and sacramental unity. These are the cities of Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople, Serbia, Georgia, Russia, Ukraine, Athens, Corinth, Thessalonica, Ephesus, etc etc etc (it was quite widely spread due to the missionary vigor and blood of the Saints.) Indeed, in the first millenium, it was this same Church which existed in the British Isles. These local churches claimed to be One Church, spanning nations and different empires, and shared one Holy Eucharist and could trace their sacramental unity back to the early Church via the mystery of holy ordination. I am simply saying that these Presbyterians you allude to were not in sacramental communion with this ancient Church NOT because of their form of presbyterial church governance, but because of their doctrines which the ancient Church professed to be heretical and impediments to sacramental and spiritual communion and unity.
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:36 PM
    The Apostle's established a Church. Can you name me some members of this Church in the second century?
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:34 PM
    So when did they stopped ordaining priests and bishops?
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  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:33 PM
    I am not saying that the Presbyterian Church does not practice a Presbyterial form, I am stating that it lacks apostolic succession going back through the centuries to the early Church.
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:14 PM
    The next sentence in Wiki says: "Presbyterian churches derive their name from the presbyterian form of church government, which is governed by representative assemblies of elders." This form of Church governance is indeed biblical and the Apostle's taught it. It was what we find in the early centuries centuries in the Bishops of the early great Christian cities and in the Holy Ecumenical Councils. This form has extended all the way down in apostolic succession in the Orthodox Church, and has not in the modern Presbyterian Church, which formed after the Reformation.
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:04 PM
    Wiki is not infallible, but it says on the first sentence that "Presbyterianism is a part of the Reformed tradition within Protestantism which traces its origins to the British Isles". There is a long history before they started.
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 03:50 PM
    Thank you for your response. Before I address the bold above, where did the Church of the first 7 centuries go?
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    Yesterday, 02:41 PM
    Hi erowe, You said above that the Eastern Orthodox Church has been around for 1400 years or so. What date, then, would you more specifically state it started?
    140 replies | 1536 view(s)
  • Muwahid's Avatar
    06-23-2016, 03:39 AM
    Her opinion should be discredited simply after the first video, unless you would like to explain to me where I was wrong? After looking her up it's clear she's a zionist neocon as well. Not the typical person I'd expect to see promoted on RPF.
    49 replies | 849 view(s)
  • Muwahid's Avatar
    06-23-2016, 02:36 AM
    Wow that lady is a serious nutjob. She actually claimed Muhammad broke the treaty of Hudaybiyyah. Completely ignoring that the Quraysh attacked Bani Khuza'a thus breaking the peace between the two.. then Muhammad peacefully took Mecca. Let's not also forget the Quraysh are the ones who tortured, killed, the pursued the much weaker Muslims all the way until the Muslims grew, then they wanted peace. So we're meant to sympathize with the pagans who tortured and killed innocent people?
    49 replies | 849 view(s)
  • Muwahid's Avatar
    06-23-2016, 02:25 AM
    2. Muhammad copied from the Jews but when this failed, he made them Dhimmis FALSE She here is taking a grain of truth, such as the Muslims facing Jerusalem rather than Mecca, and turning into "copying" from the Jews and then she suggests that this didn't work so Muhammad turned on them... this is completely ahistorical. Quote from Tafseer ibn Kathir regarding the Qiblah (prayer direction): قال علي بن أبي طلحة عن ابن عباس : كان أول ما نسخ من القرآن القبلة ، وذلك أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لما هاجر إلى المدينة ، وكان أكثر أهلها اليهود ، فأمره الله أن يستقبل بيت المقدس ، ففرحت اليهود ، فاستقبلها رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم بضعة عشر شهرا ، وكان يحب قبلة إبراهيم فكان يدعو إلى الله وينظر إلى السماء ، فأنزل الله : ( قد نرى تقلب وجهك في السماء ) إلى قوله : ( فولوا وجوهكم شطره ) Narrated by Ali bin Abi Talha from Ibn Abbass: The first abrogation in the Quran was about the Qiblah when the Messenger of Allah migrated to Medina and most of its inhabitants were Jews. So Allah commanded the Muslims to pray towards Bayt al-Maqdis (Jerusalem); the Jews were delighted by this, so the messenger of Allah faced it for ten and some months. However He liked to face the Qiblah of Abraham, so he used to supplicate to God looking towards the sky.
    49 replies | 849 view(s)
  • Muwahid's Avatar
    06-23-2016, 01:14 AM
    1. She claims Muhammad was unsuccessful for 12 years in Mecca, so decided to go to Medina FALSE The first migration wasn't to Yetrhib (Medina) at all. Muhammad was very successful among the poor and the slaves. However because of their status they would be tortured and killed by their masters or others. About 100 of them migrated to Abyssinia and were granted asylum there. The rest including Muhammad and others among the Qurayshi clans (Abu Bakr, Umar ibn al Khattab, etc.) stayed in Mecca. Muhammad taught a small group of people from Bani Khazraj (From Medina) about Islam, they converted and returned. Muhammad sent with them Musaab ibn Umair, to teach Islam. The next year they came with others, who also wished to convert. Following that year, over seventy men came to pledge allegiance to Muhammad and request that he come to Medina because there was a lot of bloodshed between the Arab tribes and the Jewish tribes. فرحل إليه منا سبعون رجلاً، حتى قدموا عليه في الموسم، فواعدناه شعب العقبة، فاجتمعنا عليه من رجل ورجلين حتى توافينا، فقلنا: يا رسول الله! علام نبايعك؟ Seventy men left until they reached him during Eid, we met with the people of Aqabah and gathered by one, and two, until we were all there then we asked O Messenger of Allah, shall we make allegiance to you? (Ahmad)
    49 replies | 849 view(s)
  • Muwahid's Avatar
    06-21-2016, 07:42 PM
    Consummation of marriage must be when the individual is post-pubescent and able to bear children. That's the minimal age requirement in Islam. Such practice was very common in this time period but Islam made it forbidden to consummate with anyone prior to puberty or anyone who physically cannot have sex. As opposed to today, children were reared during this time period to be married at a young age, such a practice wasn't controversial and Islam restricted the age to puberty.
    49 replies | 849 view(s)
  • Muwahid's Avatar
    06-21-2016, 06:18 PM
    There is only one book. Islamic critics have postulated that in the beginning Islam was very peaceful, but as Muhammad gained power, it became violent and that the peaceful verses were abrogated. This is actually untrue. The verse I posted was revealed during the time of the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah (only four years before Muhammad died) Muhammad also said at this point in time: إِنَّهُ سَيَكُونُ بَعْدِي اخْتِلَافٌ أَوْ أَمْرٌ فَإِنِ اسْتَطَعْتَ أَنْ يَكُونَ السِّلْمَ فَافْعَل (There will be conflicts that will occur after me, if you have a way to settle them with peace, do so) So there's actually a pretty consistent policy in Islam where you may only attack aggressors, and if they want peace try to negotiate peace.
    49 replies | 849 view(s)
  • TER's Avatar
    06-21-2016, 12:00 PM
    TER replied to a thread RIP Shem Kellogg in Shem Kellogg Forum
    O God of spirits and of all flesh, Who hast trampled down death and overthrown the Devil, and given life to Thy world, do Thou, the same Lord, give rest to the soul of Thy departed servant Shem in a place of brightness, a place of refreshment, a place of repose, where all sickness, sighing, and sorrow have fled away. Pardon every transgression which he has committed, whether by word or deed or thought. For Thou art a good God and lovest mankind; because there is no man who lives yet does not sin, for Thou only art without sin, Thy righteousness is to all eternity, and Thy word is truth. For Thou are the Resurrection, the Life, and the Repose of Thy servants who have fallen asleep, O Christ our God, and unto Thee we ascribe glory, together with Thy Father, who is from everlasting, and Thine all-holy, good, and life-creating Spirit, now and ever unto ages of ages. Amen.
    63 replies | 1326 view(s)
  • Muwahid's Avatar
    06-21-2016, 05:09 AM
    Why ask me something you can search for yourself? It's a legitimate cause for war: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casus_belli
    49 replies | 849 view(s)
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