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  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-26-2016, 10:02 AM
    I'm only a statist in that I support the existence of a State.
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-25-2016, 10:38 PM
    TER, just curious, do you think that tons of people get sick in Protestant congregations that serve wine in a common cup? Would be curious to hear HU's thoughts here as well since I know he's in a congregation that does. Furthermore, what's the Orthodox view on the legitimacy of Protestant Lord's Supper?
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-24-2016, 10:53 PM
    I have a (slightly) less horrifying guess as to the reason. Actually its a couple things. First of all they don't have a good understanding of good and necessary consequence. So they literally look for a specific passage that shows an infant being baptized (and weirdly, when looking for evidence that they should be celebrating Christmas or doing drama skits in church or the use of grape juice in the Lord's Supper they just say "the Bible doesn't say we can't".... an inconsistency I don't understand). I've been having this conversation with my mother and she literally still falls back on "Believe and be baptized." I don't think she hates her children (I understand I have reason to be biased, but I don't think I am :p ) I think she just doesn't get it. But I think there's a reason that most people at Patrick Henry College either start going higher church or going more liberal at some point. PHC is a smart, evangelical crowd, and its really hard to be smart and theologically inclined and still be an evangelical. A lot more of those people go Anglican than anything else, though after going through basically the same thing I came out as a theonomic presbyterian. Then you take their general stupidity/stupid literalism and add their desire not to be Catholic FOR THE SAKE OF NOT BEING CATHOLIC, and its easy to see how this could happen. Ugh. Its a mess.
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Southron's Avatar
    08-24-2016, 10:28 PM
    I can't fault anyone for voting for Trump. People voted for McCain and Romney and they knew exactly what they were getting from those candidates. At least with Trump there is some doubt.
    56 replies | 743 view(s)
  • Theocrat's Avatar
    08-24-2016, 06:15 AM
    This is definitely a "must-see" video for everyone:
    7 replies | 223 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-23-2016, 09:34 AM
    From what I understand if the bail paying person goes to court he gets the money back, so its only revenue collection if he doesn't show up. That said I see your point
    24 replies | 519 view(s)
  • Theocrat's Avatar
    08-23-2016, 08:47 AM
    It's the same reasoning used to justify voting for the lesser of two evils. We hear it over and over during every Presidential election cycle. Donald Trump is evil, just as Hillary Clinton is evil. Nothing is going to change with either of them in the Oval Office, and even Dr. Ron Paul recognizes that.
    123 replies | 2158 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-22-2016, 06:05 PM
    I actually doubt it, but not because I believe I would have done as well or better in his position. I believe Ignatius believed in the essence of the trinity, but its highly unlikely that he could have formulated it with the precision that we do today, for instance. There have been developments in the understanding of scripture at times. And there are definitely times (I don't remember the details now) where the church fathers used sloppy exegesis. The difference between me and an Orthodox Christian is that the Orthodox don't really believe we have the right to question the patristics, while I believe they need to be carefully questioned
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-22-2016, 06:03 PM
    Fair point, the word is sometimes used this way, and I'm OK with that. My hesitance here also comes back to my baptistic background. I've had plenty a person call me legalistic because I believe its not lawful to make images of Christ or because I believe its sinful to refuse to use wine in the Lord's Supper or because of my view of the sabbath (which probably isn't as strict as yours but is still far, far stricter than what is practiced in most dispensational leaning circles) and so on. I've seen it used to shut down conversation too many times to be willing to use it as an argument, even though of course on this matter I agree with you. I don't know what the SDA views of Christ's human nature is. I'd actually be significantly more worried about SDA Arminianism than the soft judaizing of being against the eating of certain foods, but then, I'm kinda weird like that :) Yeah, I don't agree with them, but I'd honestly rather someone keep Saturday than keep no day at all. I've encountered individuals who I don't see as heretical who hold that view.
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Theocrat's Avatar
    08-22-2016, 08:23 AM
    Like phill4paul, I'm anti-Trump, too, but if Trump loses and we end up with Hillary as our next gun-grabbing President, then it will be the fault of the Republican Party and Republican voters who continue to tolerate, endorse, support, and vote for unprincipled, big-government candidates just so we don't end up with a stinking Democrat in the Oval Office. The GOP should have promoted Sen. Rand Paul when it had the chance because he would do far better against Hillary Clinton than Donald Trump can. And, of course, Sen. Paul has a much better record on gun rights than Donald Trump has.
    66 replies | 1289 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-21-2016, 11:19 PM
    Perhaps, but its also like we have the original guy's writings. No, I'm not. I do, however, believe that hermaneutical skill as a whole has improved since Ignatius' day. A presupposition that I realize the Eastern Orthodox in particular would majorly object to. Different presuppositions leads to different conclusions.
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-21-2016, 10:54 PM
    There's only one truth, but I believe the church's knowledge of that truth has progressed over time as understanding of rules of hermaneutics have been standardized and improved etc. I'm not opposed to the idea that someone like Ignatius could have had some theological errors.
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-21-2016, 10:32 PM
    I believe Ignatius was part of the same church that I am, as was Paul. That's not to say that Ignatius necessarily affirmed 100% of what I affirm. Unlike the Orthodox, I believe both church fathers and councils can err. But I also believe we need to tread carefully when it comes to such things and recognize the weight of what we're dealing with. Reformed and other Magisterial Protestants are a bit different than baptists and pentecostals in this regard.
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-21-2016, 08:13 PM
    That's a very different issue. I wouldn't kiss my mom on the cheek as part of a worship liturgy, nor would I kiss a picture or statue of her, period. I wasn't throwing that at you, just in general No I'm not. I don't believe I'm justified based on my lineage.
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-21-2016, 03:19 PM
    No, legalism is when you say certain works have to be performed in order to be justified
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-21-2016, 03:12 PM
    So we're still heretics because we believe it is wrong to venerate images. I wouldn't say you're conscientiously worshipping them. I do think you're committing second degree idoaltry, and that you're giving honor to them that only belongs to God. I am not making a judgment on your spiritual standing. Because they're baptists :p
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Theocrat's Avatar
    08-21-2016, 06:28 AM
    Danke, I heard you got fired from a calendar factory for taking a day off.
    217 replies | 4574 view(s)
  • Theocrat's Avatar
    08-21-2016, 06:14 AM
    I was writing down a joke with my pencil, when, suddenly, the tip broke. Then I realized there was no point to it.
    217 replies | 4574 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-20-2016, 11:43 PM
    I don't blame you though its not all PCUSA. The OPC I attended while at school was far from ideal, but it was certainly much closer to where you're at than where the PCUSA is at. Even still, the OPC is not nearly as strong as it could be, and I don't doubt that things like this are related. I guess my point is that I see the Papal See as more of a joke now than the most pressing of threats. It still has a lot of deceived people yes, but those people are mostly spineless, fluffy liberals, and the main way the papacy does ill by these people is by leaving them utterly undisciplined. The papacy isn't burning Bible believing Christians at the stake anymore. That said, eschatology is a third tier issue in my mind, ESPECIALLY when it comes to other postmillennialists. While I'm big on not compromising on truth, I think there are some things its OK to disagree on, and I'd put most non-dispensational eschatological positions in that category (and ESPECIALLY other varieties of postmillennialism) Agreed, and I'm not even saying the magistrate should be neutral among Christian groups, but its a lot harder to deal with, and I'm not always as sure how to deal with it. Its easy (and just) to kill Servetus, its not as easy to decide how to deal with Calvinistic Baptists or Jansenists who are in severe error but yet are truly seeking to honor the same God we are.
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-19-2016, 04:34 PM
    I'm confused as to how this is comparable, given that the WCF, as much respect as I have for it, is not an ecunemical council. its a great document but still a sectarian one, while the entire true church has confessed Nicea for 1700 years. I mean, Lutherans and EOs don't accept the authority of Westminster either.... I'm not sure how changing one or two points is worse than differing on way more. That said I'm very uncomfortable with the 1788 revisions. I happen to agree with some of them (though I respect why you'd disagree with me here, I think the papacy as eschatological AntiChrist is very improbably now, though it would have been a very difficult thing for a Protestant to avoid believing at the time) but the reasoning behind the change to WCF 23.3 I can't abide. I admit I'm not 100% sure exactly how those who truly love Christ but are schismatic should be handled by the magistrate, but the 1788 opens the floodgates to plenty more than that, not to mention being politically motivated. I'm really not comfortable with that one. So yeah. I'm pretty much in agreement with you here. To be clear, I never doubted this, I was curious to see if he'd addressed it but I didn't doubt that you were correct.
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-19-2016, 08:37 AM
    Yep, Reformed Baptist, with some weird Federal Vision leanings (I think he was transitioning when I met him.)
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Theocrat's Avatar
    08-19-2016, 07:46 AM
    Well, if Trump loses, then blame the Republican Party for it. For years in these Presidential races, the leaders of the party (with the help of the mainstream media) have shunned, isolated, humiliated, lied, ignored, and ridiculed principled, moral candidates like Dr. Ron Paul and Sen. Rand Paul. Then when those candidates finally drop out of the race (to the GOP's delight), then conservatives are left with establishment-friendly, unprincipled, flip-flopping, egotistical, power-hungry candidates that are used to vote against the excrement that comes out of the donkey's ass on the Democratic side, always with the reasoning that if we don't vote for the Republican candidate, then a Democratic victory will spell the doom for us all. Thus, we always get enticed to vote for the lesser of two evils. So, you know what? If Trump loses, then we all deserve the consequences of it, especially the Republican Party. Don't expect me to vote for the Republican when the Republican Party does all it can to rid itself of statesmen who rightly deserve the title as "President of the United States," like Drs. Ron and Rand Paul, and then uses scare tactics to try to force the public that a Republican douchebag is now better than the Democratic douchebag. Enjoy your chains. You wear them well.
    35 replies | 705 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-18-2016, 09:06 PM
    Could you explain what the deal is with American Presbyterians letting patriotism getting in the way of confessional adherence? Are you referring to the 1788 revisions in the OPC and PCA? Does James Dodson happen to have any sermons or writings that discuss the eastern orthodox? Could you send me one if he has one? I'm curious.
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-18-2016, 06:49 PM
    Its happened, a good friend of mine became Roman Catholic and is still trying to convert me (that ain't happening). That said in most cases the outright cultists are way too stupid to actually be able to have a good exegetical conversation, most of the good conversations along these lines are with intelligent RCs.
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-18-2016, 06:42 PM
    I've noticed that closeness to the Orthodox seems like a Steelite distinctive (among Presbyterians) as most of the other Presbyterians I know, whether they be non-covenanters or just non-steelite covenanters, tend to have an extremely negative view of the EOC, most of which think they're comparable to Rome. And even with Lutherans most covenanters that I know through facebook prefer to identify with Reformed Baptists over Lutherans. I know you don't necessarily know all the people I know, but do you happen to know why this is? Why Steelites seem to have a positive view of the Orthodox while most other Presbyterians and even most other covenanters seem to have a very negative view? I'm not currently persuaded to be quite as strict with occasional hearing as you guys are, but I understand why you do it. If I werent in the position I'm currently in as I've mentioned previously I don't think I could bring myself to attend a church that uses grape juice instead of wine for the Lord's Supper, and even as it is I don't partake with my family or the rest of the congregation because I believe its disrespectful. Though there are a blessed few exceptions, for the most part I'm really frustrated with the anti-paedobaptism crowd along similar lines as you.
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Christian Liberty's Avatar
    08-17-2016, 09:03 PM
    JMDrake was talking about attending other people's church services, which is what I was addressing.
    376 replies | 5462 view(s)
  • Theocrat's Avatar
    0 replies | 225 view(s)
  • Theocrat's Avatar
    08-17-2016, 04:26 AM
    By the same logic, I would ask Alicia Dearn why she supports the "emotional harm" inflicted upon Christian bakers from homosexuals, demanding them to provide a good (a gay wedding cake) towards an event which those Christians cannot support in good conscience because of their Biblical convictions.
    16 replies | 408 view(s)
  • Theocrat's Avatar
    08-17-2016, 04:12 AM
    Yeah, that's all well and good, except for the fact that Trump also believes we should "bomb the shit" out of certain countries and take their oil.
    35 replies | 609 view(s)
More Activity

58 Visitor Messages

  1. View Conversation
    For curiosity, have you been reading my theonomy posts?
  2. View Conversation
    Regarding the whole "only the radical libertarians" will enter the gate, a similar thing was brought up at Eric Peters Autos:

    "David" is my username. Moleman is coming close to arguing the position that only libertarians are Christians.
  3. View Conversation
    Just an FYI:

    1. My answer to my own poll question is probably "yes", though its an exceedingly reluctant "yes."

    2. The more reluctant someone is, the less quick I'm going to be to judge them. You, frankly, are not the type of person I was considering when I made my OP, even if you techncially qualify. You're against legal torture and you agree that its almost always wrong. There are a lot of people who support legal torture and who think at least some of what was in the Senate Report was morally permissible (At least at my school there are, admittedly, my school is pretty "conservative"). I much more had in mind the neoconservative who says "torture is always justified against terrorists if there's a chance to save even one life" than I am a generally peaceful person that reluctantly says they could justify torturing someone if it meant saving their family, or something like that.
  4. View Conversation
    OK, so in that situation you're almost dealing with Hiroshima and Nagisaki again (not as it actually occured, but what most people think of it as.) Fair enough...

    Still distressing.... I'm not sure what that says of those people who actually think these were all ticking time bomb situations.
  5. View Conversation
    Do you think it would ever be moral to let someone die of hypothermia in a cold cell? Do you ever think it would ever be moral to break someone's legs and force them to stand for hours or days? Do you ever think it would be moral to consecutively waterboard someone 183 times?

    Is your only issue with this the potential for abuse, or do you understand that there is something deeply immoral about this?
  6. View Conversation
    There's something sickening and inhumane about about what was described in the CIA report. Killing someone in self-defense when they are trying to shoot you isn't comparable to that.
  7. View Conversation
    Sorta, but there are plenty of people here who think it should be legal. So, where's the line where the form of torture becomes inhumane no matter what?
  8. View Conversation
    TC, I apologize for the neg rep. I was in a really bad mood today, both from seeing the CIA report and seeing people here at school defend it. I took it out on you. I deserved the neg rep you threw back. Sorry...
  9. View Conversation
    Am I also a hardcore extremist?
  10. View Conversation
    The same one you said you'd never be extreme enough in. The one about police.
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