• ChristianAnarchist's Avatar
    Yesterday, 10:55 PM
    Do you mean "Abby Normal"??
    125 replies | 3173 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:36 PM
    Here's your problem - SOMEONE is going to be making those decisions. It's either you or me. It should be both of us. You don't get to outsource this decision without deferring quality. Honestly, we're better off when you and I make that decision. For reference I direct you to Tamir Rice, et al. Preemptive violence does not presume rules and enforcement. It means you've inaugurated a body which can LITERALLY upend those norms. You've inaugurated a body which can on a whim indiscriminately and with prejudice determine the outcome of disputes, etc. This is what we see today in our world with the all-powerful State. There is no objective standard.
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:18 PM
    They are, but we're not at a point here @ RPF where we need to be defining Anarchism and Capitalism. That's been done. Those terms are understood by pretty much everyone here discussing this topic... we don't need to be peddling in trivialities at this point, when we've done all that leg work, do we? And even if we've got some folks here who are new to the matter, we veterans don't need to continually explain ourselves on the most elementary matters, do we?
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    Yesterday, 03:29 PM
    I'm pretty sure he's a waste of time. He's trying to engage us in a semantics argument, not a philosophical argument.
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    Yesterday, 03:28 PM
    You guys are literally making the EXACT same arguments that progressives make for the unlimited State. Stop being a coward. Grow a set and learn when you keep it in the holster and when you pull the trigger. That is LITERALLY what all human interactions come down to. Do we trust the party we're engaging, or do we not trust them. It doesn't matter if there's a State to intervene or not - much as it may attempt, it the State is not everywhere at all times. You're right - force and violence are a part of humanity. But YOU want to institutionalize force and violence, and make it intrinsic to every interaction. It does not need to be. Everyone has their hand on the hilt, it's whether one needs to draw, which is decidedly rare, regardless of whether there is a State or not. As I get older, and I learn more about the world in which I live, I become more and more convinced that people who want a State - actively want a State like some of the people here in this thread - are nothing more than lazy cowards who genuinely want to go through life without having to think about anything, nor attend to their own safety.
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • ChristianAnarchist's Avatar
    Yesterday, 09:26 AM
    Ok, you're right. I'm a pompous jerk for pointing out the truth that your (and everyone else's) "country" is a legal fiction. But - your country is a legal fiction...
    491 replies | 10621 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-21-2017, 12:49 PM
    And that can only happen when an uninvolved third party sticks a gun in everyone's face. That makes perfect sense. In fact, that's how I go about my day to day, actually. If someone isn't sticking a gun in my face, I'm sticking a gun in someone else's face. That's just how I roll. Lol
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-21-2017, 12:44 PM
    What is particularly entertaining is the implicit insistence that their State will magically stay in it's paper box. Because, you know, everyone sees the gun on the table, but no one will grab it and point it at anyone. Lol
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-21-2017, 09:56 AM
    Know how you avoid all of that? Oppose the State. You've set yourself upon the path to totalitarianism, the Total State. I can't believe that you can't see that. You've set the State upon the world, AND you've stated your opposition to it's overthrow. You're Frankenstein, sir, and you want your monster to be immortal.
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-21-2017, 09:53 AM
    The thing is, anarchism (generally, statelessness) and capitalism (the free exchange of goods and services) are not "oxymorons", or incompatible, or in any way at odds with each other. The proof is right there in front of your eyes, lily. You exchange goods and services without the intervention of the State every single day, broadly speaking. Sure, the State intervenes in terms of the price you pay for goods and services (through "taxation" and regulation, both in the terms by which vendors provide certain goods and services and in artificial price controls), but at ground-level, you identify a particular good or service which meets your needs, you select a vendor to provide the aforementioned good or service, and you hand over money to secure said goods or services. There is no need nor use for the State in this freely agreed-upon exchange. That is, effectively, anarcho-capitalism. I'm not interested in childish semantics arguments where we haggle over the definition of "anarchism", or "capitalism", or anything else. I don't have time for that. I have a few days off so I'm hanging out in this forum for the fun of it - we're (presumably) all adults here, and I assume none of us have time for trivialities. I work a serious job, with real-world demands. I'm not going to waste my time, even when I have it to spare, debating the definition of words. When I use the word "anarchism", I expect that people - ESPECIALLY PEOPLE HERE - understand what I mean by that word. No one here is advocating chaos. No one here is advocating macro-statism, at least not intentionally. So I'm not going to spend my time explaining myself, that I advocate a thoughtful statelessness, which can be differentiated from minarchism in only the slightest terms. That is a waste of my time. I get where the minarchists here are coming from - I understand their point of view because I once held it myself. So when NC condescends to tell my I don't know what I'm talking about, or tells me that I need to read more... Whatever. I've done my reading. I'd gamble that I've read everything NC has read and probably more so. Or, maybe not. I don't care. I'm not here for a dick-measuring competition. I have a firm grasp of the logic and consequences behind what I understand to be true about human society. And here's the real secret of this debate - none of it matters. Nothing is going to change. We anarchists and minarchists and even the Trumpists... we're waves upon the rocks. We're pushing back the ocean with a broom. Because the fact is, people want to be ruled, AND they want to RULE. And they will. History has bent inexorably toward democracy, and people will have it to such a degree that they will inevitably kill themselves. So we can argue over the merits of statelessness and micro-statism, but what we're REALLY doing is arguing over the number of angels on the head of a pin. In other words, it doesn't matter, and it's not going to change. But it's good for a laugh, at the end of the day. Cheers.
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-20-2017, 04:43 PM
    Yeah, I see. These things exist. Would you have them in the hands of Barack Obama and Donald Trump? These are individuals who presume to speak for MILLIONS of human beings. I agree with your unspoken premise that I don't want these things in the hands of the insane. But here's the thing - they're not going to end up in the hands of the insane... because generally speaking, the insane don't have enough money to land these things. But even if they do end up in their hands... How are we worse off in a world without the State than we would be in a world without the State?
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-20-2017, 04:23 PM
    // :thumbs: Pretty easy, ain't it?
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-20-2017, 04:20 PM
    Are you reading the posts I'm making, or just the posts you're quoting? Because you only seem to quote me when I lash out - which I do admit I do from time to time. But I've been making very logically consistent arguments in most of my posts in this thread and this sub-forum.
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-20-2017, 04:17 PM
    Yeah, I do know what you mean. Do you?
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-20-2017, 02:42 PM
    Again, you're peddling nonsense. We're talking about Big Ideas here, and you're arguing semantics.
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-20-2017, 02:35 PM
    :thumbs: Tho' I would challenge this assertion: "An anarchist USA is indeed an oxymoron and ain't happening." I would suggest that there were people who said the same thing about abolitionism in the early 19th century, yet they've been proven wrong by the march of history. I've held for quite some time now that the State will die when a majority of people hold it in the same regard as they hold human chattel slavery. That time may or may not come some time soon, but it is of the same distinction.
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-20-2017, 02:29 PM
    This isn't a response to anything. It's cute, I'm sure, and it's nothing more than a tacit "might makes right" argument, which is wholly in line with your worldview. And your use of the phrase "Dear Leader" is MAGNIFICENTLY ironic, considering that YOU advocate such a political paradigm. But of course, you don't know that, or maybe you do and you're just playing games. Either way, intelligent people who understand logically ordered arguments aren't in the least compelled by your quips.
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-20-2017, 02:20 PM
    NNNnope... please see above.
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-20-2017, 02:19 PM
    These are excellent arguments against the state, of course. And in the case of the "minarchist" State, we have documented evidence that it does not work; in fact, we have evidence that what the minarchist State becomes is a ravaging beast which destroys everything including and in particular human liberty. So, could you please explain how you - as a minarchist - have as a goal the maximization of human liberty, please? I mean, what is the foundational principle upon which you advocate for your preferred order of society?
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-20-2017, 06:06 AM
    Which generations were that, exactly? The one that Founder John Adams imposed the Alien and Sedition Act upon? "Freedom" is a gray area for you, isn't it? There's no such thing as an "American". There are human beings living under the imposition of the State of the United States of America.
    111 replies | 1979 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-20-2017, 05:22 AM
    How are you going to keep "THE POPULACE" from subverting all the good you do when you inaugurate your "CONSTITUTION"?
    111 replies | 1979 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-20-2017, 05:21 AM
    :lol: Well what the F GOOD IS THAT!? :lol:
    111 replies | 1979 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-20-2017, 05:21 AM
    So, your answer is 'no', then. Then what good is the Constitution? If the governing document - the document which says what the State may and may not do - of the American State cannot contain the State, it isn't worth the paper it's written on. So what are we supposed to do? Pretend that every several decades (if even that long, when you actually look at the historical record) that we can inaugurate a State - an entity with ultimate authority over the human beings living within it's physical territory - and try, try, TRY to keep it within the paper box we build for it? WHAT A LEGACY TO PASS TO OUR CHILDREN! :LOL: Didn't you read Shelley's Frankenstein? That's what happens when you mess with Nature. AT LEAST statelessness aligns with the nature of humanity - that there is no objective standard by which one or some subset of man may rule over other men.
    111 replies | 1979 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-20-2017, 05:14 AM
    Is the American State currently governed by the Constitution?
    111 replies | 1979 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-20-2017, 05:12 AM
    EVERYTHING YOU SAID BEFORE THAT PARAGRAPH DESTROYS YOUR ARGUMENT FOR THE CONSTITUTION. Jeezus. How are you so blind to this?
    111 replies | 1979 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    10-20-2017, 05:06 AM
    lol, everything you wrote before that last paragraph was literally an eulogy to minarchism, yet you assert that statelessness is "la-la land where the nature of man needs to change!" :LOL:! Seriously, how do you miss that?
    111 replies | 1979 view(s)
  • A Son of Liberty's Avatar
    693 replies | 9021 view(s)
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    Thnx for the RP quote in that +rep message. Made it part of my sig.
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    Congratulations!
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    It's true that government is not the State, but the common man thinks the two are the same, so I use them that way in casual conversation. Rothbard's definition of the State is nearly identical to Bourne's and Oppenheimer's, and I think they are all good ways to think about it and distinguish it from the government. The wikipedia page on Voluntaryism is pretty good IMHO. gtg for now, but feel free to keep this conversation going if you like. It's pretty interesting.
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    Voluntaryism maintains that participation in government can and should be entirely voluntary. This does not necessitate abolition of government(which anarchy requires), but a "perestroika" (restructuring) of government so that individuals can choose how they want to interact with government, if at all. The wikipedia summary is pretty good http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntaryism and the Voluntaryist manifesto is a great read (though google can't seem to find it anymore). There are also back issues of the now-defunct "The Voluntaryist" newsletter published online on several sites. Is there an easy way to save pms to text files or something? I have to clean out my box, but I don't want to waste a lot of time if I don't have to.
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    Oh I definitely know where you're coming from. Heh.
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    Haha, yeah - it's quite obvious.
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    Where you can order a cookbook: http://www.ronpaulforcongress.com/html/orderonline.html (That is his official site.)
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    Please help! I'm counting on RPF! http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=251175
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Law Without Taxation

by Wesker1982 on 07-26-2012 at 02:25 PM
When most people are exposed to the idea of a society organized without taxation, they often jump to the conclusion that the services provided by government would no longer exist. After it is proposed that these services would still exist, but they would be provided by voluntary organizations, they assume only problems and chaos could ensue. Warlords, crooked arbitration, justice for only the rich… surely these are unavoidable consequences of a society without taxation!

These voluntarily

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Taxation is Theft (a response to a few criticisms). Happy Theft Day!

by Wesker1982 on 04-17-2012 at 05:21 PM
Taxation is theft, purely and simply even though it is theft on a grand and colossal scale which no acknowledged criminals could hope to match. It is a compulsory seizure of the property of the State’s inhabitants, or subjects. – Murray Rothbard
Here are a few dictionary definitions of tax:

  1. a sum of money demanded by a government for its support or for specific facilities or services, levied upon incomes,property, sales, etc. (dictionary.com)
  2. a charge usually

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Ron Paul and Private Courts

by Wesker1982 on 08-12-2011 at 02:51 PM
We have conclusive evidence that Ron Paul advocates the private production of all defense services. See:

Quote Originally Posted by Liberty Defined, page 288
The government is incapable of doing what it's supposed to do. A job like the provision of security is something best left to private institutions.
Quote Originally Posted by Liberty Defined, page 255
If we reflect on how security works in the real world, we discover a huge and important role for private enterprise, and we find that the vast government apparatus of "national security" does not keep us safe

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Updated 08-20-2011 at 01:09 PM by Wesker1982

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Anarcho-Capitalist Reference List

by Wesker1982 on 06-03-2011 at 04:39 PM
General/Introductions to Anarcho-Capitalism

Antimarket Ethics: A Praxeological Critique by Murray Rothbard (Rothbard destroys many common criticisms against the market, absolutely a must read, for minarchists too.)
The State is Not Great by Jacob Spinney (best video intro in existence. VERY GOOD.)
Anarcho-Capitalist FAQ by Hogeye Bill
The Obviousness of Anarchy by John Hasnas
Evil Monopolies Are Fairy Tales In Free Markets by Jacob Spinney (great video)

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