Deborah K
Member

"I watched the skit in question. I watched it."

It's hard to understand the true context of it, without watching the full episode.

"I stated that in the thread. It made me cry, Clay."

I would argue that you need to toughen up a bit, if this is true. You didn't even know Jesus, personally. We have a tough fight ahead of us, and I wish a little pee getting dripped on our living faces, was all we had to worry about.

Jesus got crucified, he's a saint... he can hack it. He doesn't need you to weep for him, if he's as powerful in death, as everyone says.

"You need to live and let live and stop scolding people of faith as to how they should conduct themselves in order to get your respect. "

I used to condemn religion to an extent, but I am learning from many of my past mistakes in my approach. I feel we are being honest and respectful with one another, as we always are. I don't have an agenda in this conversation, other than to try and tell you that your anger is misplaced and something so silly and irrelevant to anything real, should not negatively affect your life, like this. You're my friend, and you claimed you cried over this. I think those are misplaced, unproductive and un-necessary emotions, from the bottom of my heart.

I believe we are engaging in rational conversation, based on an intellectual disagreement we have. Both you and I are in a sort of an agreement in which we enjoy learning and voluntarily lending the resources we have to one another, to further our common cause, in liberty and stopping the government.

If you wish not to hear my views on this particular subject any longer, we can cease the conversation, and i will respect that you don't enjoy discussing religion with me. I can only promise you that I will always, and only speak from honesty. I have too much respect for you, to treat you otherwise.

"This is about sense and sensibility. Some people have neither."

Humor is a sensibility, and is a test of how honest you are willing to be with yourself.IMHO. For example, I used to get laughed at and teased in school for various things, and I realize now that i should've just laughed along, the whole time, and stuck with honesty and humility, not anger and sadness. I let it get to me and made some bad decisions out of misplaced emotions, but we are put here to learn from our mistakes. I believe we are here to constantly correct ourselves, balance our nature and guide our spirits towards happiness and peace.

Much Love,

p.s. I'm so excited about getting started with Michaels site. I think NayJevin is going to join the team

When south park first came out, it made headlines because it portrayed the death of children. Mothers with kids named Kenny would write front page articles, because of the following display of free speech.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbv8ECWEsu0

They created a ton of controversy in Canada when they sang this song in their movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYSYipouABI

Here they are mocking child porn controversy, in the way that they do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KagWCgLInN4

They mocked both Obama and Mccain supporters in their election episode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dr1sgcC6k4

Here's cartman totally ripping off Christians for money, by writing songs about Jesus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOAlgq1-Uv8

Here they are mocking the N word

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLInWGTq2ZI

I can't seem to find any good Jesus ones right now, but there are dozens, i know it.

Controversy drives large audiences. People's emotions are easy to manipulate.

"Clay, really....you're going to compare the N word to urine dripping off of Christ's face?"

The N word is very controversial, especially when White folks say it... The parallels are clear, to me.

Tell me why they are blatantly different examples?


" Show me a skit from southpark or Larry that involves urine on the face of a religious leader or something similar."

That's a pretty bold request, and thanks to viacom banning south park clips from youtube, it's a difficult one to accomplish. Jesus is like a starring character in South Park, and is constantly subject to crude humor on multiple levels.

The reason south park is successful is because of the controversy combined with humor. Have you ever noticed how common it is to see a south park topic discussed in the news? Remember when they pissed off scientologists and even had Issac hayes quit the show, and got a lawsuit from tom cruise?

Yea, it happened. People need to mellow out, and stop getting emotional about their superstitions and ancient dead hero's.

"This is over the top. He crossed the line. Nuff said."

He crossed your bias'd line, not mine or any principle of free speech.

You haven't even watched it, it's very obvious. Your opinion on this subject is very bias'd. I still love ya.

"This is a judgement based on a complete lack of understanding"

It is the truth as I see it, I claim nothing more.

"The whole point of the first amendment is protection of speech. Popular speech needs no protection, right?"

Right

" It is unpopular speech that needs protection. Since Larry is free to offend whomever he chooses, WE are free to reacwt to his tactless, tasteless humor in hatever way we see fit. "

Go ahead, just know that Capitalism supports Larry's show, and many people are willing to pay extra for the opportunity to watch it on HBO.

" It is doubtful Larry has ever done such an offensive skit with other religions"


The fact is he has, big time! You obviously are not aware of the show, and it's very obvious that you didn't even watch the episode you criticize. Will you admit to this?

I mean this with all due respect, but it appears you are arguing from emotions and ignorance, not principle or even your faith.

"And you, my dearest, are in denial if you reject the notion that Christians are free game."

Every thing is free game, in terms of speech, in my opinion. Christians are not an exception, nor is any other group or faith.

" If he had done this same skit using Moses, or Mohamed, or MLK, shit would have SERIOUSLY hit the fan and you know it."

South park has ripped Mohommad, ghandi, Moses and Jesus a new one, on multiple occasions, and it's done them alright as well. Controversy is good marketing, and you don't realize it but the Christian Anger is actually helping Larry and HBO promote his show, for free. Larry David has offended several cultures, races and religions. Jesus and the toilet splash was nothing, and it's actually very humerous to me that people are offended by something so silly and harmless. It's a comedy TV series for crying out loud.

For an example of larry's controversial and harmless humor...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Svfsiri50eM&NR=1

Should blacks all be pissed that larry dropped the N word? No, my black friends laugh their asses off at that episode. They also laughed at this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MFebZlUJ7E

One of my all time favorite shows. You really should watch the episode that has offended you so greatly. I think you would quickly realize how silly your emotions are over this.

Much Love and Respect.

I can be somewhat offended by certain types of comedy, but it usually doesn't effect me very much.

For example, one of my favorite comedians, Doug Stanhope, does a terrible bit about abortions. It's very gross, and pro-abortion and i hate it. It's not funny, it's pure evil and i have trouble finding any humor in it. He's still one of my favorite comedians though, and I'm able to enjoy most of his work.

"So, when someone does something disrespectful to someone you love, you aren't offended?"

I might be offended a bit if a friend Insults my mom or something but, Certainly not to the point where it justifies a news story, featured on bill o'reilly.

There are no concepts that I hold so dear that I would get upset if people mock or challenge them, in a fashion that I can just ignore by choice, like television, internet or any other form of the 1st amendment style rights.

"I disagree that the urine dripping off of the depiction of Christ was just a circumstance."

It was scripted, but it wasn't even the funny part of the joke. Nobody was laughing at Jesus, or the fact that he had toilet water accidental splashed on him. The joke is on Larry and his awkward situation.

Have you even watched the episode you criticize?


" I'm sure, if Larry has any brains in his head, he weighed the potential consequences of this disrespect toward a beloved figure and decided he didn't care who he offended."

The entire basis of Curb Your Enthusiasm, is that larry is an individual who means well but ends up making nearly everyone his enemy. He's a constant victim of ridiculous circumstances, that always end up offending someone, for all the wrong reasons. That is the core humor, and it is a very funny concept, imo.

"I have two problems with this skit, #1 making jokes about a beloved religious figure using urine is blasphemous, insensitive, and vulgar."

The joke was not insensitive or vulgar. Christians are just too sensitive about this stuff, imo. I'm guessing 99% of them are judging something they don't watch and will not watch in the future.


"Not all jokes are funny."

Not to all people. These ones clearly aren't funny to you, though i'm not sure you've even watched the show. Go ahead and Choose a different source of comedy. Change the channel.


"#2 If he's going to insult Christians, he should at least be consistent and spread it around to other religions but I'm betting he doesn't have the stones to do it."

What makes you think Larry David isn't consistent with his mockery of religions and other forms of culture? Have you honestly ever watched the show? He's offended muslims, Christians, Jews, prostitutes, blacks, handicapped, etc. The concept of the show is that he's always accidently offending people, Usually unintentionally.

Look, HBO is premium content, people pay extra for it. I would cancel my subscription if they cancelled curb due to some religious or other group protest, and I know I'm not alone in this. Curb one of HBO's top grossing shows. Free-market capitalism will keep that show alive, but it certainly doesn't force you to watch it, and that's the underlying beauty of all this, that you should lovingly embrace. Love > Frustration and anger

Christians need to stop taking everything related to their faith so personally, and lighten up a bit about such unimportant events, imho. By being upset about this, it becomes a news story which only makes things worse for them. By getting upset about this, you are basically eating into Bill O'Reilly styled propaganda, imo. If faith is to be commendable and respected, the faithful must not be so quick to react on emotion.

All just my humble opinion of course.

Love ya.

Oh, and if you watched the Episode of Curb that is in question, I don't think the material is very offensive.

Jesus isn't really even part of the actual joke. The real joke is in the fact that Larry wants the girl to quit, because he's bothered by the clothes she wears. Nobody was really laughing at the Jesus part, it wasn't a joke, just a circumstance. There is nothing for Christians to be offended by, in that episode, in my opinion.

99% of the people upset about this, didn't even watch the episode nor do they watch the show.

By "disrespect towards my views", I really meant to say towards me as an individual, not my views. Disrespect towards my views and "beliefs"are fine, so long as insults aren't slung at me in the process.

I wouldn't say i never have, or never will, but i certainly try very hard not to, and think I am constantly improving and correcting my behavior. There's pretty much nothing that you can directly insult with words or mockery, that will get an emotional response from me. My emotions tend to get triggered by force, threats, insults and disrespect towards my views.

Anger and frustration accomplishes nothing, and I'm trying to recognize this as best as I can, though flawed I may be

"But to me, that's like saying that my car is an extension of gov't because I need permission to drive it via, taxes, registration and DL."

I would argue that it is. You can only really drive on socialized roads, and the monopoly on those roads can take away your "privilege" to drive forever. They also like to make ridiculous laws and give their enforcement officials "quotas" to meet. No competition, whatsoever.

Do you agree with the govt. enforced road monopoly?

" that somehow we can't be invaded. I gave you a plausible example of how - YES we CAN be invaded."

Okay... Other individuals and groups of individuals can use force against us, I agree. Without a tax structure, there wouldn't' be much to "take over" though. They'd have to fight individual land owners, who probably won't take lightly to a violent invasion of property. I would argue it's far more logical than an enforced socialized national defense, would you disagree and why?

"As to whether gov't should exist BECAUSE we have nukes? Not sure how you concluded that from my response. As to our track record, I don't like it and hope to God we never end up in a nuclear war."

Okay, so would you agree that National Defense and Civil Right security is probably best left out of the hands of the government?