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  • heavenlyboy34's Avatar
    Today, 12:38 PM
    Some shocking un-libertarian shenannigans going on in this thread, Angie. :eek:
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Today, 12:21 PM
    Insisting that evil Amazon should be forced into paying over a market wage means you're siding against the free market. We can agree that this isn't a free market, but moar force isn't the Libertarian solution. Let the workers starve. When they reach a point where they can't pay their bills any longer, their children are hungry at night, they will seek employment elsewhere, or they will seek a way to make themselves more valuable . Or they'll vote for people who promise to force Amazon to pay them more even though they're not worth more. Congratulations - you win. I can't stand the appeal to emotion nonsense. My life is 10 times harder than that of some guy working at an Amazon warehouse. If I can do it, so can he.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Today, 12:16 PM
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be 'cured' against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.” -- C.S. Lewis, "God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)"
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • acptulsa's Avatar
    Today, 07:53 AM
    And is not giving SNAP and/or Section 8 to working people an intervention that distorts the labor market? There was a time--I remember it--when full time workers were not eligible for such benefits. There's yet another case of conservatives shooting conservatism in the foot. If people who don't work deserve it, how is it that people who do work don't deserve it? That's just a dog whistle argument for corporate welfare. If a person can work sixty hours a week and have to choose between being homeless and eating, or having shelter and starving, that person is not going to do that job. The only reason these people do these jobs is because the taxpayer is picking up the slack. Which means the taxpayer is enabling the CEO and the stockholders to pocket more. Yes, of course the CEO is going to do that, if the taxpayers are dumb enough to put up with it, and the stockholders won't complain either. There's nothing free market about it. People owing their souls to the company store, people working for a wage which doesn't allow them to meet their basic necessities for survival, does not happen in a free market. It does not happen. People do not work for the right to starve to death. Suggesting such a thing is 'free market' is laughable. The State is intervening in the labor transaction to Amazon's benefit. And Amazon is using political clout to ensure it continues. They are paying politicians with money that should be going to their employees. The labor market is distorted. If the State weren't making it possible for Amazon employees to survive, they would leave the company and find a way to survive. To say that libertarians should defend Amazon because it's an enterprise is laughable. When the corporations are in bed with the politicians, you have fascism, and fascism is no more free market than socialism. And the more libertarians babble about how enterprises are good no matter what--even to the point of winking at obvious distortions of markets and turning a blind eye to fascism--the less people looking for the answers the media obviously isn't giving them will look to libertarians for those answers.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Today, 07:41 AM
    What about the children? Some people don't have time to go look for better jobs. It's not easy for everybody. Why are you so mean???
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Today, 07:39 AM
    Oh, the condescension.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Today, 07:36 AM
    Exactly. If the labor market was tight, wages would rise dramatically. This whole "people can't be bothered to go look for a better job!" and "Life isn't easy!" stuff is ridiculous. Thats what charity is for - not government.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • heavenlyboy34's Avatar
    Today, 12:06 AM
    It's regulated AF, but not totally State controlled *yet*. They're working on it, tho. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_sector
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 09:10 PM
    No, we aren't. They aren't a monopoly by any definition of the word. They aren't unique, either.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • heavenlyboy34's Avatar
    Yesterday, 08:27 PM
    "Seem" being the key word. They may well offer the value to the company they get paid for all you know. What people earn in the private sector is none of your damn business.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • heavenlyboy34's Avatar
    Yesterday, 08:24 PM
    This^^ People buy from Amazon for the brand and convenience. Plenty of times I've bought from ebay, etc because the item in question was cheaper.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:21 PM
    That's absurd.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:20 PM
    Option C - Nothing. Labor is a commodity, the price rises and falls with demand.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • heavenlyboy34's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:00 PM
    There's this thing called the Division of Labor, bro. Amazon isn't going to magically suck people up into jobs they don't want just to destroy the community. *dramatic Michael Moore-esque scene here* Amazon jobs are low-skill and even in small communities would only draw people who are interested in such work anyway. And since value is subjective, we know plenty of people value working locally over working for national brands.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:44 PM
    So the answer then is no, Amazon doesn't have a monopoly on labor. Like I said above, Mexicans can walk from Baja to Birmingham and find work. But Americans can't travel 200 miles to improve their own lives? Like Tom Woods said, I'd be freaking embarrassed if I was so worthless I worked at a place for a decade and couldn't convince a single person anywhere that I was worth more than minimum wage.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:39 PM
    Nobody said poor people are lazy. What I am saying is that markets determine wages, and there's no such thing as a "reasonable" wage.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:35 PM
    No. Labor is a commodity.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:32 PM
    Not the problem of the employer, and not the responsibility of the federal government. Here's a hint: price floors create a surplus.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:31 PM
    Plus rep. Enough of the "these poor people can't take care of themselves!" nonsense. Freaking Mexicans walk 1200 miles and find jobs in a country where they don't even speak the language. They don't qualify for food stamps, yet I haven't seen their starved corpses on the side of the road.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:27 PM
    People who get food stamps do not pay taxes. They make contributions to their social security theft, but as a general rule they get refunds that exceed the amounts of income tax that were withheld over the course of the year. You guys are delusional if you think that Amazon, WalMart and any other employer is going to pay a single penny over market wages. This noise is just union propaganda - they failed at unionizing WalMart, so now they're going to try to weasel their way into Amazon. Bezos is a prog though, so he'll probably allow it. Snicker.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:22 PM
    Are you implying that Amazon owns the labor market?
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:21 PM
    Wages are a commodity. Prices rise and fall with demand. If you want higher wages, you have to specialize. There's no way around economic law.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:19 PM
    But I don't think those things should be regulated. Well, the war thing can be regulated away asap, but the free market should be the final arbiter in all these other things things.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 05:04 PM
    My husband was a regional director for Whole Foods. I can assure you they were 100% about profit. The things they did to their vendors were horrible, they didn't hesitate to accept food stamps, and he sold his company because organic was becoming less and less niche every year.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 05:02 PM
    Why should Amazon care about the taxpayers?
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:58 PM
    The big difference here is that I'm advocating for free market labor prices and against subsidies. I have no need to impose my morality on others.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:43 PM
    Why is it immoral to pay the market price for labor? Doesn't management have a moral obligation to protect the interests of the investors and the customers as well? Who gets to decide which moral obligation is superior?
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:31 PM
    The difference here is that I don't think that some people can and should be bullied and shamed for predictably acting in their own self-interests, while others should be coddled and forgiven for the same behavior.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 03:49 PM
    I chortled when I saw you use that quote right after waxing nostalgic about the morality of the '80's. Everybody is greedy. Go watch some Friedman.
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
  • angelatc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 03:45 PM
    But but but his FEELZ!
    149 replies | 1230 view(s)
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    I can pretty much assure you that there was nothing positive about the mental impact it had. It's not anywhere near as effective as a friendly chat with someone you get along with. No hard feelings, just consider this a friendly chat about neg repping.
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    Giving neg reps isn't cool. I don't ever give neg rep.
  4. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...R3s-Everywhere

    may need to be re-written and reposted -- didn't pick up any traction at all
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    What's my man Charles up to now? Haven't heard.

    Yeah, I'd love to spread his good works around the Tulsa meetup and here. Let's have that link!
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View scrosnoe's Blog

Recent Entries

Oklahoma Grassroots share Liberty Pep Rally – May 11th at Remington Park

by scrosnoe on 05-05-2012 at 06:21 PM
Come join us as we rally for liberty with Tom Woods, Jordan Page, and Jason Rink! Let’s celebrate our growth and success in 2012, and get pumped about taking this movement to the Oklahoma GOP State Convention!




.

The rally will kick off at 7pm at the Remington Park Casino. Enter at the casino, and go straight back to the left of the escalators to the banquet

Read More

Updated 05-05-2012 at 06:22 PM by scrosnoe

Categories
OKGrassroots , R3publicans , Grassroots , CLibertyC

Oklahoma: Ron Paul OK Announces Honorary State Co-Chairs – Key and Brogdon

by scrosnoe on 01-18-2012 at 11:47 PM
Oklahoma: Ron Paul OK Announces Honorary State Co-Chairs – Rep Charles Key and Former State Sen Randy Brogdon

http://r3publican.wordpress.com/2012...randy-brogdon/

[Editorial comment: Great news for the movement! As one of two Grassroots Coordinator in Oklahoma for Ron Paul in 2008, I am encouraging other counties to follow the lead of Ron Paul OK, a group based in the OKC Area. We are principled, limited government, constitutional Republicans -- Republicans Restoring the

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News on 6: Tulsa Ron Paul HQ Opening Kicks Off a Full Calendar of Events

by scrosnoe on 01-09-2012 at 04:52 AM


TULSA, Oklahoma -
As the Republican field sets its sights on New Hampshire, one of the candidates is looking forward to the Oklahoma primary.


It’s not until March 6th, but Ron Paul is already planting roots in Tulsa.

He is the first Republican candidate to open campaign offices in the Sooner State. One is

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Updated 01-09-2012 at 04:53 AM by scrosnoe

Categories
OKGrassroots , R3publicans , Grassroots , CLibertyC

A Pumpkin, a Speech and a Song -- Carve a Message and Convey a Story

by scrosnoe on 10-31-2011 at 11:13 PM
Current Conditions or Just a Bad Dream?
Could it all be a bad dream or a nightmare?
Is it my imagination or have we lost our minds?
It is surreal.
It is just not believable.
A grand absurdity.
A great deception.
A delusion of momentous proportions.
Based on preposterous notions and on ideas whose time should never have come.
Simplicity grossly distorted and complicated.
Insanity passed off as logic.
Grandiose schemes built on falsehoods

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Updated 11-01-2011 at 12:46 PM by scrosnoe (categories)

Categories
OKGrassroots , R3publicans , CLibertyC

R3s via Naomi Wolf: How I was arrested at Occupy Wall Street

by scrosnoe on 10-24-2011 at 04:32 AM
Naomi Wolf: How I was arrested at Occupy Wall Street


Arresting a middle-aged writer in an evening gown for peaceable conduct is a far cry from when America was a free republic. Read Naomi Wolf's report of her arrest at Occupy Wall Street about the 'closing civil society' where we live.

Report from Naomi Wolf (October 19, 2011):

Last night I was arrested in my home town, outside an event to which I had been invited, for standing

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Updated 10-24-2011 at 04:37 AM by scrosnoe

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OKGrassroots , R3publicans , CLibertyC
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