• lilymc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 08:06 PM
    I understand your position. But when you said this: "But the idea that one should be okay with killing and dressing their food is commonly thrown at carnivores by people who don't or won't processes their own flour or soy-kurd as a way to try and get the carnivore to second guess their dietary habits." ...you seemed to be implying that there was some sort of hypocrisy or inconsistency there. That is what made no sense. When a vegetarian or vegan does not process their flour or soy-curd, it is not for the same reason that they do not want to kill an animal. So to imply that they are being hypocritical is drawing a false comparison. I understand that in your eyes there's no difference between the two, but that wasn't the case in the example we were talking about. But anyway, we don't have to keep arguing about that. As for the evangelical aspect of veganism… I understand how you feel about it. Many meat eaters see it as pushy or rude. But can you understand that from the perspective of a vegan, it's not simply about one's diet? There is a bigger picture. It doesn't affect only them. It affects the animals, it affects the environment (and believe me, I am definitely not an environmentalist or modern day liberal… but facts are facts), it affects society overall, for a number of reasons. That is why many (not all) vegans wish to promote veganism. And I don't believe there is anything wrong with promoting a particular viewpoint, people do that all the time with numerous different things. That said, if they are mean, rude or try to force people, then that's a different story. Take promoting the Gospel, for example. Standing on a street corner yelling at people that they are going to Hell is probably not going to be as effective as treating people with respect and kindness and love. No one is ever swayed by force.
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:15 PM
    Amen. Reminds me of the quote, "Animals are my friends, and I don't eat my friends." :)
    34 replies | 445 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:49 PM
    Hi, sorry for the late reply. Well, when I first went plant-based (a little over a year ago) I stopped eating meat and dairy but I still ate a little seafood occasionally. But I kind of knew in the back of my mind that eventually I would stop eating seafood too. So yeah, I did stop eating seafood, for several reasons. I'm not sure if I should go into all that right now… But you kinda gave me an idea. Maybe at some point I'll do a video on this for my Live Mercifully YouTube channel. :) That makes no sense. Are you trying to compare killing an animal to processing flour? False comparison, especially in light of the example that I brought up to you. I specifically said "if someone cannot in good conscience slaughter an animal…" The words "in good conscience" imply that there is a moral conflict there. It has nothing to do with laziness, not wanting to get messy or even being grossed out. I was talking about a situation where someone couldn't kill an animal because they felt guilty or that it would go against their conscience. So to try to compare that to not wanting to prepare their own flour or soy-curd food is apples and oranges... and missing the point. That is because most (not all) vegans see it as an ethical matter. Not just a diet, not just a health thing, but a lifestyle and an ethical position. It's something they do because they believe it is wrong to harm animals and wrong to support something that is bad for the environment, bad for one's health, bad for numerous reasons.
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-25-2017, 08:23 PM
    No, you're still not getting it. It was just an example of something that is incongruent. It's not about judging anyone, I could've used a completely different example that had nothing to do with food. But if you refuse to even acknowledge that, never mind.
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-25-2017, 08:18 PM
    Sigh. You're bringing up all sorts of other things, things are important but this post deserves a reply that would take much more time than I have right now. I really need to eat dinner… I was traveling today (planes trains and automobiles) and all I had was a small snack.
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-25-2017, 08:13 PM
    What are you trying to do, stir the pot here? :p Yep, case in point. That's one of the things I was talking about in my previous post. Then again, some people think that she just wants attention and wants to create controversy to get subscribers and become famous.
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-25-2017, 07:51 PM
    lol. That is one of the reasons I usually don't call myself a vegan. Even though I don't eat meat and dairy, many vegans hold beliefs I disagree with… beliefs that are unbiblical… For that reason, as well as some other reasons, I usually just say 'plant-based.'
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-25-2017, 07:47 PM
    I think you misunderstood. I wasn't saying that you would have to tell anyone anything. I was saying that if someone could not in good conscience slaughter a pig or cow for food, they are not acting in line with their conscience by eating meat, wouldn't you agree? Well, people have different beliefs, but from a biblical perspective, God did not create us to eat each other. Genesis 1 makes it clear that in the very beginning, God created all living beings, humans and animals, to be vegetarian. We've talked about this before on other threads. Do you honestly believe that a good God would create animals who can suffer and feel pain, who have a strong desire to live and enjoy life.... for the purpose of being caged and tortured and eaten? No, that's not God's original design. At least not according to the Bible, and imo to common sense and intuition.
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-25-2017, 07:09 PM
    I've cared for animals all my life. I'm talking about pets, of course, but like I said, I don't think that one has to have experience working on a farm, to legitimately be a voice for the animals. As for what you said… I think that many animal rights activists do have experience with animals because typically they are people who love animals. BTW, there are a number of cattle ranchers who had a change of heart, turned their ranch into animal sanctuaries and went vegan. :) Here are a couple vids...
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-25-2017, 05:24 PM
    I eat oatmeal almost every morning too. The kind you cook on the stove. Usually with fresh fruit or whatever toppings I have on hand. My breakfast the other day. (before I added almond milk) Yes, Huzzah! :D
    6 replies | 352 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-25-2017, 05:01 PM
    What's the but? Why are you asking, unless you're implying that one needs to work on a farm to have a valid opinion on this matter?
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-25-2017, 10:25 AM
    That not what I was said or meant, you seemed to be doubting that Jesus said that, that's what I was asking you about.
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-24-2017, 11:29 PM
    I agree. Do you believe animals were created by God?
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-24-2017, 09:05 PM
    How very sad. Are you actually doubting the most important truth, that we should love God and love others? There are some things that we as Christians should know intuitively. We don't have to worry about Bible versions or the bible being changed or agendas of "church leaders" to discern certain basic, obvious truths.
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-24-2017, 08:55 PM
    True. I remember hearing similar stuff when I was in college (unfortunately) and that was a long time ago. So it's probably a lot worse now.
    88 replies | 1099 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-24-2017, 08:51 PM
    Yeah, I know that many believe the cultural Marxist propaganda zealously. That's why it's sad to me… So many are taking the bait.
    88 replies | 1099 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-24-2017, 04:46 PM
    The reason I use the word "true" is because we were talking about the government labeling something "property." That is either a true statement, or it is not. But I'm glad that you agree that the law is simply what is legal, not what is true, right, or acceptable.
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-24-2017, 04:39 PM
    I don't think it's silly at all, we're really just discussing whether a man-made law means something is actually true. This isn't that difficult. But if you don't want to discuss it then that's totally fine.
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-24-2017, 04:32 PM
    This sounds like more divide and conquer crap to me. Phrases like "cultural appropriation" or "cisgender".... Who comes up with these idiotic, divisive phrases? Probably those who want us all to be fighting each other so we take our attention off of the true enemy.
    88 replies | 1099 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-24-2017, 04:22 PM
    That was what the law said, but my question was, was that really true… apart from the law? I don't believe that you have to be party to something to have a belief one way or the other. Let me try asking this in a different way. If our government decided to round up and enslave all libertarians, and call them "property"....and you happened to be one of the people rounded up and enslaved... Would you agree that you are truly "property" apart from what the law said? In other words, that you were no different than an inanimate object and anything at all could be done to you, and it would be moral and acceptable, simply because they claimed that you are "property"?
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • georgiaboy's Avatar
    05-24-2017, 03:25 PM
    Occam's Banana
    13 replies | 374 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-24-2017, 03:22 PM
    Hi! That's not the article I had read before… But he does speak about Romans 13 a lot in several different places. I also saw a video yesterday of a talk he did on that. I could post it here, but it's very long… So instead I'll try to post an article later. I really shouldn't be posting here right now, I've got a ton of things I'm supposed be doing today. :)
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-24-2017, 03:16 PM
    Amen! That's pretty much exactly what I was going to say to him. I like to keep things simple.
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-24-2017, 03:14 PM
    You can continue to pretend that an elephant, or a pig or a dog is the same as an inanimate object… but regardless of what the law says, we all know that's not true. The law also said that black slaves were "property." You guys didn't answer this question earlier, so I'll ask again. Were those involuntary slaves truly property, apart from what the law said? IMO this sounds like "might makes right." And I think we all know what happens when humans have that mentality. I don't want to judge or making anyone feel bad, I do feel it's important to ask this question... If we don't want to be treated that way, why do we do the same to those we have power over?
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-23-2017, 06:34 PM
    I think that Romans 13 is misunderstood and misapplied by many. Chuck Baldwin did an article on this. I'll see if I can find it. But I'll probably do this later because I need to start cooking dinner soon.
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-23-2017, 06:24 PM
    Well, I agree with NC, but I don't usually phrase it the way he does… Because as you said, the word "lawful" can easily be misunderstood unless one is specific. I'm going to post a quote by MLK Jr, from his letters from a Birmingham jail. One may well ask, “How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?” The answer is found in the fact that there are two types of laws: there are just laws, and there are unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that “An unjust law is no law at all.” Now, what is the difference between the two? How does one determine when a law is just or unjust? A just law is a man-made code that squares with the moral law, or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. To put it in the terms of St. Thomas Aquinas, an unjust law is a human law that is not rooted in eternal and natural law.
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-23-2017, 06:15 PM
    I agree with you and AF that "might makes right" is happening. But just because something is happening doesn't mean that it is the true way. As NC put it, there's a difference between what is legal and what is lawful.
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-23-2017, 06:11 PM
    An animal is not a car. An animal is not a TV set. An animal is a living being, and the ones we've been talking about have sentience, emotions, and a strong will to live. I want for us to get somewhere here, but it's difficult when you refuse to answer certain questions about your personal view. I hope you don't get mad at me, but I'll try again. Do you personally believe it is immoral to abuse or torture an animal? Yes or no? You're right. But I assumed that everyone here understands there's a difference between what is legal and what is true, or 'lawful' as you put it. :)
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-23-2017, 06:01 PM
    No, I meant should it, or does it truly… apart from what is currently happening.
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
  • lilymc's Avatar
    05-23-2017, 05:53 PM
    Actually, they do. Maybe not according to man-made laws, but according to natural law, they do. Proving that is another matter, but I think most people intuitively know that animals should not be abused, tortured, or killed for unnecessary reasons.
    209 replies | 3530 view(s)
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