PierzStyx

[QUOTE=kcchiefs6465;5588672][QUOTE=Massachusetts;5588658]I have observed many debates on foreign policy on RPF, DP, and countless other liberty-oriented sites. A trend I have noticed is the anti-Israel sentiments and the downright hatred of Israel.

Many in the liberty movement are so off on this issue for a few reasons:

1) Israel is our strongest ally in the part of the world where folks are the most hostile toward the United States. The United States has spent a long time playing Russian Roulette with countries in the Middle East (i.e. arming ISIS in Syria, and fighting against them in Iraq)..but Israel has always been our ally.

2) The anger is directed towards Israel as if they are our enemy. You can disagree with actions that Israel takes in terms of military strategy without expressing hatred of Israel and their people.

3) The power of the AIPAC lobby - just like liberals broadly lump in all gun owners in with the NRA, it is unfair to broadly lump all the folks in Israel with AIPAC. The anger should be dedicated towards the politicians who allow AIPAC to have such a heavy influence on their decision making when it comes to foreign policy - not Israel.

4) The foreign aid the United States sends to Israel isn't Israel's fault. If you were offered billions in aid from the United States, would you say NO? Absolutely not. The anger here should be directed towards our politicians who try to buy influence with foreign leaders using foreign aid as a tool to do so.

In conclusion, the anger directed towards Israel for many controversial topics should be directed elsewhere. You can be critical of Israel for specific actions they take, just as you would be critical of the United States for specific actions they take. It is just this guy's opinion that it is absurd to oppose everything that Israel, an ally of the United States, does. It is a subject that I think is a sore spot in the liberty movement that should be addressed moving forward. Just my take.

I welcome any criticism and/or concurrence with what I have laid out in this thread. I look forward to receiving your feedback, RPF.[/QUOTE]
1) Israel isn't our best ally. The benefits that the American people might theoretically gain from the relationship is negated by the fact that we are more likely to be attacked, and have been attacked, for going down this road of entangling alliances. The United States supplies Israel with weaponry that often violates conventions, said weaponry is used on Palestinians, (whether you believe justifiably so or not is a moot point) various factions in the Middle East and elsewhere point to the mangled corpses of innocent men, women, and children and sell a tale about a so-called American war on Islam. Statements made by prominent neoconservative talking heads only serves to reinforce that perception. Many are recruited, radicalized, and convinced that a life of war against the United States, and anyone happening to be from there, is moral, righteous, and their duty. These aren't soldiers who are largely paid to fight. They will keep using guerrilla tactics and attacking Americans at every opportunity. We shouldn't be there.

Not simply that, Israel would have an incentive to work towards peaceful relationships with its neighbors if the United States was not artificially propping them up.

2) Israel has attacked us before. The people of Israel are not 'our' enemy, but the government of Israel certainly doesn't much have any qualms about committing acts of war against the United States. Israel bombs hospitals, schools, their forces shoot down innocent children, their munitions (often supplied by the United States) cause excruciating and slow deaths of many innocent people. It is not in the individuals of the United States interest to sponsor these things. Sure, a few Americans prosper greatly. A few receive oil drilling contracts, military welfare, and various other self-enriching, crony-capitalist plots and schemes are realized.

3) It's not simply the politicians who have become utterly subservient to the will of AIPAC, it is the American people who have been taught many of the things you say. "They are our best ally in the Middle East" etc. (they aren't, and regardless, we shouldn't be there). Many's interpretation of the Bible and fanatical aspirations to promote an apocalypse signifying the Second Coming of Christ is to blame as well. They equate Israel, the modern day state, to Israel that is mentioned in the Bible. It's quite amazing that the only bills and/or resolutions that can pass with unanimous consent are the bills to give Israel more money, or reconfirm the undying, eternal, entangling relationship (or other pointless theatrics for politicians to point to on how much they supported Israel when they travel home). It's sickening.

4) Many in Israel actively call for the aid. Many in America actively offer it. Regardless of all that, yes, they should deny it. And yes, America should not be offering it. What do they want? Sovereignty? Or to be an American puppet state? As the relationship stands, considering how much our policy is dictated by Israel, and not vise versa, I'd say "we" are the puppets.

In short, I just deny, in full, that there is any benefit to be had by our alliance with Israel. We should trade with all nations. Not be tied to the hip with them. We are broke and can't afford it, it leads to us being attacked and gets us into wars, and it promotes death and hostility.[/QUOTE]