• Positives Coming From Trump's Election

    California is talking CALExit. I assume Trump being elected is a big part of this. I like the idea that states are standing up for states' rights. Even though I don't expect them to secede, I do think this is healthy. It's also educational for people to realize that states have power. It also might spur people to wonder what other power they have. Curiosity in this direction is a good thing, even if currently they're probably mostly "anti-liberty".

    It's also good that protests are acceptable again.

    There is talk about the media being a watchdog of Trump. Even though we all know the MSM is completely phony, it's still good that people are reminded that government needs to be "watched".

    Hopefully the anti-war left will be resurrected. It was beyond shameful how they stopped being active while Obama was in office. Apparently he's the the only POTUS to be at war for every single day of his 8 year tenure (honestly that surprises me but that's what I recently read).

    Trump has talked about bring back torture/waterboarding (personally I'm not convinced it ever went away). He also had his first drone strike homicides (in Yemen). Maybe Trump will also sign the NDAA allowing murder or indefinite detention. I want people to talk about how terrible all this stuff is. I expect they'll think it all only happened during Trump's (and maybe Dubya's) tenure, not realizing Obama was every bit as bad. This opens up great teaching opportunities to show that the D's are every bit as bad as the R's.

    If Trump continues deficit spending and either continues Obamacare or replaces it with something similar then it will also be instructive to people who identify as R's that the R's are terrible too - just like the D's.

    Basically, every bad move Trump makes will likely cause the media (and protesters) to freakout. It is our job to then teach people that both parties are terrible and the system is corrupt.


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    Comments 15 Comments
    1. Roguebeeker's Avatar
      Roguebeeker -
      Very insightful. It is certainly worth taking a step back and looking for all the shades of grey. Here are a few more points where I think Trump has shined.

      #1. Gun rights.
      #2. His Supreme Court picks look pro-liberty.
      #3. Devos as education secretary. She wants to promote alternative schooling through vouchers.
      #4. His stance on affirmative action.
      #5. Trump's stance on making marijuana a states issue.
      #6. His attitude towards government waste and largess, think the F-35 program.
      #7. The suffering of SJW culture. These people are fundamentally anti-freedom.
      #8. Death of the TPP. It was never about free trade.
    1. euphemia's Avatar
      euphemia -
      You really think the media is acting as a watchdog for government? The media are still trying to shape opinion through phony polls, and are pubishing some of the stupidest stuff ever as a distraction from what is really getting done. The media's job is to hope you will believe every jot and tittle of what they write and stop thinking for yourself.
    1. cindy25's Avatar
      cindy25 -
      not just SCOTUS, but all federal courts. hundreds of vacancies.
      not just TPP, but NAFTA is on the way out, maybe even NATO and the UN

      but there are negatives such as Green card ban, and push (unlikely to happen) to control citizens entering and leaving with bio metrics.
    1. doublek321's Avatar
      doublek321 -
      Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
      You really think the media is acting as a watchdog for government? The media are still trying to shape opinion through phony polls, and are pubishing some of the stupidest stuff ever as a distraction from what is really getting done. The media's job is to hope you will believe every jot and tittle of what they write and stop thinking for yourself.

      Re-read my post. In particular the line that begins: "Even though we all know the MSM is completely phony..."
    1. seapilot's Avatar
      seapilot -
      Quote Originally Posted by cindy25 View Post
      not just SCOTUS, but all federal courts. hundreds of vacancies.
      not just TPP, but NAFTA is on the way out, maybe even NATO and the UN

      but there are negatives such as Green card ban, and push (unlikely to happen) to control citizens entering and leaving with bio metrics.
      The thing most concerning about him, is his willingness authoritarian use of the police. The past presidents (bush and obama) helped create it to military status and now trump is not likely to get rid of those tools. There is another high profile attack on US soil get ready for checkpoints entering cities etc.

      The focus for any protesters against government should be to expand freedom, not be angry or scared because their totalitarian of choice is not in power. That is why these recent protests seem like a joke in the grand scheme of things.
    1. Athan's Avatar
      Athan -
      Quote Originally Posted by doublek321 View Post
      California is talking CALExit. I assume Trump being elected is a big part of this. I like the idea that states are standing up for states' rights. Even though I don't expect them to secede, I do think this is healthy. It's also educational for people to realize that states have power. It also might spur people to wonder what other power they have. Curiosity in this direction is a good thing, even if currently they're probably mostly "anti-liberty".
      I agree strongly.

      Quote Originally Posted by doublek321 View Post
      It's also good that protests are acceptable again.
      They never stopped.

      Quote Originally Posted by doublek321 View Post
      There is talk about the media being a watchdog of Trump. Even though we all know the MSM is completely phony, it's still good that people are reminded that government needs to be "watched".
      They aren't being watchdogs. They are political hacks. Look at how they responded to Dr. Paul. The media must be routed because it isn't free press. It is a globalist owned corporations.

      Quote Originally Posted by doublek321 View Post
      Hopefully the anti-war left will be resurrected. It was beyond shameful how they stopped being active while Obama was in office. Apparently he's the the only POTUS to be at war for every single day of his 8 year tenure (honestly that surprises me but that's what I recently read).
      They want war. You are confused.

      Quote Originally Posted by doublek321 View Post
      Trump has talked about bring back torture/waterboarding (personally I'm not convinced it ever went away). He also had his first drone strike homicides (in Yemen). Maybe Trump will also sign the NDAA allowing murder or indefinite detention. I want people to talk about how terrible all this stuff is. I expect they'll think it all only happened during Trump's (and maybe Dubya's) tenure, not realizing Obama was every bit as bad. This opens up great teaching opportunities to show that the D's are every bit as bad as the R's.
      You may be a bit naive. You forget who these people are and what they have been doing for decades.

      Quote Originally Posted by doublek321 View Post
      If Trump continues deficit spending and either continues Obamacare or replaces it with something similar then it will also be instructive to people who identify as R's that the R's are terrible too - just like the D's.

      Basically, every bad move Trump makes will likely cause the media (and protesters) to freakout. It is our job to then teach people that both parties are terrible and the system is corrupt.
      Yes, but right now you give too much credit to the liberals and party loyalists.
    1. Jamesiv1's Avatar
      Jamesiv1 -
      One week in office = Greater America

      At this rate by Summer we will be greater than we have ever been.

      The greatness will be tremendous, and luxurious.
    1. Tywysog Cymru's Avatar
      Tywysog Cymru -
      Quote Originally Posted by doublek321 View Post
      California is talking CALExit. I assume Trump being elected is a big part of this. I like the idea that states are standing up for states' rights. Even though I don't expect them to secede, I do think this is healthy. It's also educational for people to realize that states have power. It also might spur people to wonder what other power they have. Curiosity in this direction is a good thing, even if currently they're probably mostly "anti-liberty".
      The GOP could really exploit this to become competitive in some parts of the country again. If secessionists start winning Democratic primaries in blue states the Republicans might have a shot at winning in states that are otherwise typically out of reach.
    1. euphemia's Avatar
      euphemia -
      Quote Originally Posted by doublek321 View Post
      Re-read my post. In particular the line that begins: "Even though we all know the MSM is completely phony..."
      Re-read this site. Of course the MSM is totally phony. They have always been reporting about government. The thing is, it has a totally liberal spin. Of course they are watching Trump, because they don't like him. Why haven't they been watchdogs wrt Hillary, Pelosi, and Obama?
    1. osan's Avatar
      osan -
      Quote Originally Posted by doublek321 View Post
      California is talking CALExit. I assume Trump being elected is a big part of this.
      You assume correctly, methinks.

      I like the idea that states are standing up for states' rights.
      That is not what this is. Among other things, it is a Sam's Club-sized child's tantrum. It is also a call to maintain the open tyranny of California government. There is so much wrong with this, I barely know where to begin.

      Even though I don't expect them to secede, I do think this is healthy.
      While I am loathe to make any firm conclusions on this particular issue, I seriously doubt that this is "healthy". Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons and with the wrong goals in mind cannot be credibly taken as a sign of the good health of a population. I strongly suspect it is the sign of being lost, ignorant, and corrupt.

      It's also educational for people to realize that states have power.
      I wholly agree.

      It also might spur people to wonder what other power they have. Curiosity in this direction is a good thing, even if currently they're probably mostly "anti-liberty".
      This is a valid point and hope your apparently guarded optimism is warranted. I do not share it, however. I've watched people closely and the mean humanity paints a bleak picture of woeful inadequacy in all considerations once considered essential of the good man, what I call the Strongman. We live in a nation of Weakmen where the meaner holds a negative interest in becoming a Strongman. That is to say, the Weakman is not even indifferent to Strongmanliness, but rather, violently and implacably hateful of it. The Strongman serves as a continual reminder to the Weakman of the inadequacies that he chooses out of his inferior attitude, making plain his gross inferiority and giving rise to his resentment in the light of his attitude of refusal to step up to the higher standard. That has been the greatest success of the Progressive: bringing the vast majority of men to the view that it is better to drag every man to his level rather than for him to strive to rise. The deification of inferiority and damning of the superior man is perhaps the single greatest political coup in all human history.

      It's also good that protests are acceptable again.
      Sure, but look at what is being protested. These people are functional idiots.

      There is talk about the media being a watchdog of Trump. Even though we all know the MSM is completely phony, it's still good that people are reminded that government needs to be "watched".
      Grave error alert: MSM is decidedly not suggesting that "government" be watched, much less doing so. They are saying Trump needs to be watched. Any implied watching of some portion of "government" stems solely from the connection to Trump's policies.

      Hopefully the anti-war left will be resurrected.
      Hopefully not. Those people were simplistically-minded fools being lead about by their hooked little noses by the progressives. The "anti-war" movement was actually an "anti-America" program.

      How about an anti-war "right"? Still not quite right, but endlessly better than "left". Better still, how about anti-tyranny Americans, dedicated to the notion that no man is born to be slave to another, nor to lord over others?



      Trump has talked about bring back torture/waterboarding (personally I'm not convinced it ever went away).
      I have absolutely no problem with torture. The problem for me lies in choosing whom to torture. Some people merit torture, to be certain. They are few and far between. I would suggest that a huge proportion of those to have been so treated were perhaps undeserving of it.

      Example: I apprehend a man who has kidnapped a child and confessed. He says the child is alive but will die soon. He refuses to divulge the child's location. I say flay the hide from his flesh until he talks.

      Counter example: infantryman is captured during war. There is no reason to believe he has any vital information regarding enemy plans. Leave him alone.

      There is a whole spectrum of possibilities between these two and IMO, most of the applications are unjustifiable. But not all. It is a sad truth that we are faced with such choices, but humanity as a whole remains as an ill-bred toddler, pitching fits and behaving atrociously and stupidly with an intensity and frequency that appalls decent men.

      He also had his first drone strike homicides (in Yemen). Maybe Trump will also sign the NDAA allowing murder or indefinite detention. I want people to talk about how terrible all this stuff is. I expect they'll think it all only happened during Trump's (and maybe Dubya's) tenure, not realizing Obama was every bit as bad. This opens up great teaching opportunities to show that the D's are every bit as bad as the R's.
      Who are these "people" to whom you refer? Certainly not the Obama sycophants, because such people never talk about such things. It is sacrilege worthy of death to such people. You seem to believe that such people are willing to discuss such issues truthfully. Nothing could be farther from the truth as evidenced by the right miserable years of Obama's reign as Tyrant In Chief. These are the same people so eager to give Hillary Clinton the blowjob of her life. In the wake of the mountains of damning evidence, they still wanted her 13" schwanz between their teeth, claiming that every shred of evidence has been faked.

      Are those the people whom you think are going to be "talking"?

      If Trump continues deficit spending and either continues Obamacare or replaces it with something similar then it will also be instructive to people who identify as R's that the R's are terrible too - just like the D's.
      Now you're too far off the rails. Those on the "right" are in some ways as bad as the left. They would not know honest discourse where their sacred cows are concerned, if it ran up and bit them in the nuts.

      We are talking about a nation infested with corrupt and dangerously ignorant nitwits.

      Basically, every bad move Trump makes will likely cause the media (and protesters) to freakout.
      And the brands of approach they will take are precisely the sort that will cause those against whom they complain to dig in, rather than sit and listen. This is yet another very bad habit Americans have developed: going instantly on the warpath, rather than raising points like semi-intelligent adults.

      It is our job to then teach people that both parties are terrible and the system is corrupt.
      I am all for it, but it behooves us to keep our expectations real in a world where people respond to polite manners with "$#@! you, I want your children to die of cancer!"
    1. Clement Vallandigham's Avatar
      Clement Vallandigham -
      What is Trumps end game? Endless attention? Or making anime real?
    1. LibForestPaul's Avatar
      LibForestPaul -
      Quote Originally Posted by Clement Vallandigham View Post
      What is Trumps end game? Endless attention? Or making anime real?
      If taken at face value, he state what his end goal is, "America First". This country is for American Farmers, and American Sheeple. He is anti-globalist, not pro-freedom. Not necessarily a bad first step at reversing the Progressive Whores from the past.
    1. kpitcher's Avatar
      kpitcher -
      Quote Originally Posted by Clement Vallandigham View Post
      What is Trumps end game? Endless attention? Or making anime real?
      To actually be worth "TEN BILLION" dollars

      Anyone who has to put their net worth in all caps on their website, then hides any proof of it, can't be worth that much.
    1. osan's Avatar
      osan -
      Quote Originally Posted by doublek321 View Post
      California is talking CALExit. I assume Trump being elected is a big part of this. I like the idea that states are standing up for states' rights.
      That is not what is happening. What we are seeing is a vast wad of people pitching a tantrum.


      Even though I don't expect them to secede, I do think this is healthy.
      It would be healthy if, one day, the ill-bred curs grew up into actual adults and learned the deep error of their lost ways. That is not likely to happen.

      It's also educational for people to realize that states have power.
      Yes, it most decidedly is. It is also good for people to know and understand the proper exercise of such power, which they do not. The saddest bit is that they have no interest in learning. They revel in their ignorance and wear it as a badge of honor - something about which to crow and carry on as if they had no sense.

      It also might spur people to wonder what other power they have. Curiosity in this direction is a good thing, even if currently they're probably mostly "anti-liberty".
      Firstly, the fact that any such curiosity would be channeled in anti-liberty directions can in no way be regarded as healthy - at least not by sane, rational, and decent folk. Secondly, you are giving the meaner WAY too much credit for attitude.

      It's also good that protests are acceptable again.
      What protests? There have been no protests of which I am aware. Certainly you cannot be referring to the rioting, for that has as much in common with protesting as a ham and cheese sandwich has with kosher.

      There is talk about the media being a watchdog of Trump. Even though we all know the MSM is completely phony, it's still good that people are reminded that government needs to be "watched".
      Are you even serious?


      You appear to labor under the sadly ill-conceived impression that the meaner gives a rat's patootie about any of this beyond how it effects his personal interests. That is a very FAIL-riddled assumption. I'd be more careful with that, were I you.
    1. Ender's Avatar
      Ender -
      Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
      To actually be worth "TEN BILLION" dollars

      Anyone who has to put their net worth in all caps on their website, then hides any proof of it, can't be worth that much.
      Ya think?


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    timosman

    Why are the dems always so nagging?

    Thread Starter: timosman

    Because ..... they are controlled by ..... Chinese. :confused:

    Last Post By: osan Today, 07:44 PM Go to last post
    r3volution 3.0

    The Jury System & Democracy

    Thread Starter: r3volution 3.0

    @Swordsmyth recently bumped an old thread of his in which he criticized the jury system. I responded with some comments about democracy, and how it suffers from similar problems. In the interest of not derailing that thread, as per SS's request, here's a new one. Below is our exchange thus far.

    Last Post By: osan Today, 07:07 PM Go to last post
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