• State of the Liberty movement

    The national campaigns aren't helping at the moment. They won't let us win, so education is the best we could get from national campaigns and Ron Paul really showed the power of that, surveys on this forum confirmed it. Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul, not even a McAfee, he won't get the word out, maybe a bastardized compromise that may help us in future coalitions but could hurt us too.

    Grassroots is where it is at for feeding the tree of Liberty, it will blossom on its own given enough food. Given the timeline this nation and other nations are on, we don't have much hope of straightening course from the helm, we need to be bracing for impact individually and as a result hopefully collectively. We need to feed the tree of Liberty in our own lives, with our own families, neighbors and yes, local politics.

    If we assume this bad boy is going to come crashing down from the top, those who best stand to benefit will be those ready for it at the bottom. As their national leaders fail them, which is ever so obvious, the people will be looking for answers locally, which is where we stand to benefit. Those of us who correctly witness the situation we are in to our families, neighbors and communities will be looked on prophetically as Ron Paul was, as it comes to pass. Be yourself, campaign individually as we know we all do, maybe take a look at a community board seat, county position or even state if one were ambitious like Ron, Rand, Amash and Masie. Local politics WILL matter when national politics fails.


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    Comments 23 Comments
    1. jllundqu's Avatar
      jllundqu -
      Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
      The national campaigns aren't helping at the moment. They won't let us win, so education is the best we could get from national campaigns and Ron Paul really showed the power of that, surveys on this forum confirmed it. Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul, not even a McAfee, he won't get the word out, maybe a bastardized compromise that may help us in future coalitions but could hurt us too.

      Grassroots is where it is at for feeding the tree of Liberty, it will blossom on its own given enough food. Given the timeline this nation and other nations are on, we don't have much hope of straightening course from the helm, we need to be bracing for impact individually and as a result hopefully collectively. We need to feed the tree of Liberty in our own lives, with our own families, neighbors and yes, local politics.

      If we assume this bad boy is going to come crashing down from the top, those who best stand to benefit will be those ready for it at the bottom. As their national leaders fail them, which is ever so obvious, the people will be looking for answers locally which is where we stand to benefit. Those of us who correctly witness the situation we are in to our families, neighbors and communities will be looked on prophetically as Ron Paul was as it comes to pass. Be yourself, campaign individually as we know we all do, maybe take a look at a community board seat, county position or even state if one where ambitious like Ron, Rand, Amash and Masie. Local politics WILL matter when national politics fails.
      Agreed. Local is where it's at. THings will continue to devolve until either a war, economic collapse, attack on the grid, or some combo leave people cutoff from national concerns... local communities, churches, and town/city officials will be who to go to... Get in at the local level. Get to know your neighbors. This country is due for some serious reckoning in the coming years.
    1. acptulsa's Avatar
      acptulsa -
      Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
      The national campaigns aren't helping at the moment. They won't let us win, so education is the best we could get from national campaigns and Ron Paul really showed the power of that, surveys on this forum confirmed it. Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul, not even a McAfee, he won't get the word out, maybe a bastardized compromise that may help us in future coalitions but could hurt us too.
      The most important bit of education we could do at this point, in my opinion, would be to educate people about the Twelfth Amendment. By doing just enough to win over disaffected Sanders voters, without doing enough to offend those mainstream Republicans who can't stomach the orange clown, Johnson is potentially doing just what it takes to make people take a serious interest in the Twelfth Amendment.

      That's not something you spark interest in by not running to win a significant portion of the vote. That's something you spark interest in by stealing enough votes from both major parties to get them below fifty percent apiece.
    1. phill4paul's Avatar
      phill4paul -
      <<<insert applause gif>>>

      +rep. The Fed/Gov is so $#@!ed it's not possible to right it. In the 10 yrs. I've been on this forum we've managed to help get perhaps a handful of liberty representatives. We don't have another 100 yrs. before it comes crashing down. Beans, bullion, bullets and local ballots.
    1. osan's Avatar
      osan -
      Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
      The national campaigns aren't helping at the moment. They won't let us win, so education is the best we could get from national campaigns and Ron Paul really showed the power of that, surveys on this forum confirmed it. Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul, not even a McAfee, he won't get the word out, maybe a bastardized compromise that may help us in future coalitions but could hurt us too.

      Grassroots is where it is at for feeding the tree of Liberty, it will blossom on its own given enough food. Given the timeline this nation and other nations are on, we don't have much hope of straightening course from the helm, we need to be bracing for impact individually and as a result hopefully collectively. We need to feed the tree of Liberty in our own lives, with our own families, neighbors and yes, local politics.

      If we assume this bad boy is going to come crashing down from the top, those who best stand to benefit will be those ready for it at the bottom. As their national leaders fail them, which is ever so obvious, the people will be looking for answers locally, which is where we stand to benefit. Those of us who correctly witness the situation we are in to our families, neighbors and communities will be looked on prophetically as Ron Paul was, as it comes to pass. Be yourself, campaign individually as we know we all do, maybe take a look at a community board seat, county position or even state if one were ambitious like Ron, Rand, Amash and Masie. Local politics WILL matter when national politics fails.

      Even if a great messiah rose to the Seat, so what? Without people who are liberty literate and wanton of that state, freedom has no chance. As of this minute, it has no chance. That may change, and I sincerely hope it does. So yeah, education is key.
    1. bunklocoempire's Avatar
      bunklocoempire -
      Agreed. + rep OP island neighbor, who I still have yet to meet.

      Know your neighbors, anticipate their strengths & weaknesses.

      The more that people's resources are squeezed, the more things become obvious locally, and the better to capitalize.

      Local politics matters greatly, right now.

      Witness Jen Ruggles, emerging to challenge Danny Paleka for Puna district county council seat. She is capitalizing on the local corruption brought to light (again). The tighter things get, the more people pay attention. Hawaii IS corruption, has been for a long time, so what changed? The peasant's conditions, as far as I can tell. Some, who are not connected to power, are not so willing to look the other way these days.

      Does Jen have it all together? No way. She is not yet consistent with the concept of "consent" (services we can't opt out of), but she has previously mentioned peace, and that tells me she may be open to learning the peace benefits of aloha, rather than always going to government force.

      This is painful to watch, but it's Puna's current county council political reality. I offer it simply as an incentive to explore your own local area, to see what you're up against, and to think about a tailored message for your neighbors. Some of the local powers that be, have become incredibly lazy with their messaging (Paleka), and have left themselves vulnerable. Tell me there isn't opportunity, after listening to this disjointed candidate "forum". lol



      Do you smell the fear wafting from Danny? I sure do. If he was truly "pono for Puna", he'd wouldn't know fear. His "pono" moniker (righteousness, righteous idea) isn't consistent with his use of government force to implement his agenda. I'll be attempting to remind locals about the inconsistencies of the local rulers, every time those rulers make the mistake of whipping out "aloha" to promote government force. They whip it out EVERY time.

      Interesting times, a spooked herd, some spooked rulers (leaders are rare), and more and more opportunity every passing day. SWOOP! SWOOP!
    1. Ronin Truth's Avatar
      Ronin Truth -
      What about the Liberty of the State movement?
    1. CPUd's Avatar
      CPUd -
    1. Athan's Avatar
      Athan -
      Usually when a movement's steam is running out, it is because it is no longer addressing the needs it should be. In short, the liberty movement has allowed itself to stagnate while "alt-right" have taken our ideas of banks, foreign policy, monetary policies, and etc and are running with them by picking up and talking about points we either refuse to address, to controversial for us to break down, or feel to unimportant to our ideals.

      They aren't afraid of being edgy, controversial, and aggressive. This is why I myself barely come to ronpaulforums for news anymore. This and Daily Paul used to be THEE place for news shills wanted to keep from going public.
    1. MattRay's Avatar
      MattRay -
      I've been concerned about this since Dr. Paul hasn't been in the spotlight as much the last few years. His message was so compelling, so well articulated and with so much credibility, particularly on monetrary policy/economics, the drug war and foreign policy, I don't know who else can take the liberty movement to the next level. I do view this year as a golden opportunity, but Weld has the potential to screw it up and it can be tough to overlook Johnson on religious liberty and discrimination. But he's at least started promoting the NAP a bit and he's a big step in the right direction compared to the GOP, Dems, Trump ect. on foreign policy/intervention, free markets, the drug war, taxes, term limits ect. But I hope some newcomers/converts recognize the difference between libertarianism and The Libertarian Party. Ron Paul's campaigns were so great because they coincided with some excellent books he authored, which thankfully included some suggested reading as well so I was able to discover great books like Rothbard's America's Great Depression for instance and learn about the Austrian Business Cycle theory. Sadly, I doubt we'll be seeing the ABCT from Johnson and this certainly isn't inspiring time in the liberty movement like 2007-2012 nor is this a campaign about education like Dr. Paul's 3 campaigns, but it remains a good opportunity so I'm excited about that nonetheless. I have to say that I disagree about McAfee too. I'm happy he didn't get the nomination because he would have done us no favors expanding the movement and just added to the misconception that libertarians are weird, crazy ect. Peteresen definitely had his strengths, particularly a better understanding of libertarianism than Johnson(except for his views on the NAP) and the right idea reaching out to conservatives, though I wasn't sure how many were going to take him seriously considering he looks like a kid and has never held any political office. On the bright side, at least Gary is doing one thing Austin wouldn't, which is promote the NAP. Really, the best hope for the future is Amash as far as I can see. He really is excellent, imo and a breath of fresh air, but he's not that well known yet.
    1. afwjam's Avatar
      afwjam -
      Johnson was and is the weakest Libertarian because he just does not "get it", he does not pull the whole picture together with Liberty being the answer. McAfee got it, Petersen got it, Ron for sure got it. Johnson and his socially liberal, fiscally conservative best of the democrats and republicans campaign won't do us any favors unless we think Bernie supporters are going to learn real Liberty principles from him(they won't) and remain a part of a future coalition. I can only dream, but McAfee would be making waves right now dropping truth bombs, some might call it crazy, I call it common sense. knowing that he is not educated in Libertarian scholars, I was even more impressed with McAfee because he got it on a gut level, making the right calls on principles and values. He was a breath of fresh air during the debates, fun yet right, Johnson is a philosophical mess and completely uninspiring.
    1. jkob's Avatar
      jkob -
      we'll have a better understanding of where we're at after these coming primaries

      still hoping to put John McCain into retirement
    1. afwjam's Avatar
      afwjam -
      Quote Originally Posted by jkob View Post
      we'll have a better understanding of where we're at after these coming primaries

      still hoping to put John McCain into retirement
      Looks like there are a couple glimmers of hope, a senate seat and a couple house seats would be nice.
    1. Natural Citizen's Avatar
      Natural Citizen -
      Quote Originally Posted by Athan View Post
      Usually when a movement's steam is running out, it is because it is no longer addressing the needs it should be. In short, the liberty movement has allowed itself to stagnate while "alt-right" have taken our ideas of banks, foreign policy, monetary policies, and etc and are running with them by picking up and talking about points we either refuse to address, to controversial for us to break down, or feel to unimportant to our ideals.

      They aren't afraid of being edgy, controversial, and aggressive. This is why I myself barely come to ronpaulforums for news anymore. This and Daily Paul used to be THEE place for news shills wanted to keep from going public.
      Well. I Don't know. What do you think we should do? I mean, screw it, I'm open to ideas. I don't even mind starting over again. Heck, that might even be the better plan.

      I'm of the view that we'd do better to get back to the more meaningful fundamental things. That's just me talking, though. Some may and likely will disagree.
    1. ChristianAnarchist's Avatar
      ChristianAnarchist -
      The "Liberty Movement" as I see it has pretty much gone underground.&nbsp; Almost everyone I talk to wants something along the lines of true liberty but they are ignorant as to what liberty is. When explained in simple terms most agree that it's what they desire but then the mind-fuk conditioning by the media comes in and they are hung up on things like roads, gun control, and their favorite welfare program (social or military).

      TPTB have full control of the brain washing apparatus and it's hard to break that conditioning...
    1. MattRay's Avatar
      MattRay -
      Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
      Johnson was and is the weakest Libertarian because he just does not "get it", he does not pull the whole picture together with Liberty being the answer. McAfee got it, Petersen got it, Ron for sure got it. Johnson and his socially liberal, fiscally conservative best of the democrats and republicans campaign won't do us any favors unless we think Bernie supporters are going to learn real Liberty principles from him(they won't) and remain a part of a future coalition. I can only dream, but McAfee would be making waves right now dropping truth bombs, some might call it crazy, I call it common sense. knowing that he is not educated in Libertarian scholars, I was even more impressed with McAfee because he got it on a gut level, making the right calls on principles and values. He was a breath of fresh air during the debates, fun yet right, Johnson is a philosophical mess and completely uninspiring.
      There's no doubt McAfee is better philosophically and I would have definitely supported him had he been the nominee, but given all of the stuff out there about him(unrelated to his ideology), I don't know how many would have even given him a fair chance. The media basically refuses to discuss ideology and loves the tabloid type stuff. I'm not even talking about people's reactions to his ideas, I worry about people even listening to the ideas and giving them a fair chance. It's hard enough to get people to listen to any principles in politics, but in particular, I worried McAfee had too much baggage for people who aren't already libertarians to get past. As it is, I wish Johnson wasn't as eccentric as he was and certainly wish we didn't have things like the guy stripping at the LP convention. I wish more followed Ron Paul's example, including presentation. Maybe I'm too cynical, but once Rand's campaign failed to gain traction, I've had very low expectations for the liberty movement in this election. Basically, I resigned myself to just hoping for a much better showing in the election to build on so the next Ron Paul or even Harry Browne isn't completely ignored like in '88 or '96 and 2000 and hopefully a crack in the armor of the one party monopoly. The one real positive I see with Trump's campaign is that I think he's actually helping with that, as is the cynicism caused by a candidate as terrible as Hillary being forced on the public.
    1. osan's Avatar
      osan -
      Quote Originally Posted by MattRay View Post
      I've been concerned about this since Dr. Paul hasn't been in the spotlight as much the last few years. His message was so compelling, so well articulated and with so much credibility, particularly on monetrary policy/economics, the drug war and foreign policy, I don't know who else can take the liberty movement to the next level. I do view this year as a golden opportunity, but Weld has the potential to screw it up and it can be tough to overlook Johnson on religious liberty and discrimination. But he's at least started promoting the NAP a bit and he's a big step in the right direction compared to the GOP, Dems, Trump ect. on foreign policy/intervention, free markets, the drug war, taxes, term limits ect. But I hope some newcomers/converts recognize the difference between libertarianism and The Libertarian Party. Ron Paul's campaigns were so great because they coincided with some excellent books he authored, which thankfully included some suggested reading as well so I was able to discover great books like Rothbard's America's Great Depression for instance and learn about the Austrian Business Cycle theory. Sadly, I doubt we'll be seeing the ABCT from Johnson and this certainly isn't inspiring time in the liberty movement like 2007-2012 nor is this a campaign about education like Dr. Paul's 3 campaigns, but it remains a good opportunity so I'm excited about that nonetheless. I have to say that I disagree about McAfee too. I'm happy he didn't get the nomination because he would have done us no favors expanding the movement and just added to the misconception that libertarians are weird, crazy ect. Peteresen definitely had his strengths, particularly a better understanding of libertarianism than Johnson(except for his views on the NAP) and the right idea reaching out to conservatives, though I wasn't sure how many were going to take him seriously considering he looks like a kid and has never held any political office. On the bright side, at least Gary is doing one thing Austin wouldn't, which is promote the NAP. Really, the best hope for the future is Amash as far as I can see. He really is excellent, imo and a breath of fresh air, but he's not that well known yet.
      The sooner the good doctor drops dead, the happier the elite shall be.

      That is why we all have to become something similar in terms of beacons of truth and examples to those around us. I do what I can daily, but one man can do only so much, even if he is Ron Paul.

      One of my methods is to open carry everywhere I go. I even go to the bank armed. Other than two incidents, the response of my fellow West Virginians has been overwhelmingly positive. People need to see "liberty behavior" and not just hear the words. I can barely overemphasize how important this is. If you live in a hell hole like NY/NJ/CA/IL/HI/OH/RI/MA/CT, wear an empty holster and do it defiantly. If the people around you freak out, tough $#@!. If the cops give you $#@!, fear not. This is a comparatively small price to pay, IMO.

      The land is in grave jeopardy. Do what you can before it is too late.
    1. Peace&Freedom's Avatar
      Peace&Freedom -
      I've suggested three basic approaches going forward to advance liberty, both nationally and locally:

      1) Run candidates with a Ron Paul like mind, and a William Wallace like alpha vibe. Much of the public has to be reached by means other than reason, as they are turned off by the 'brainiac' form of libertarianism we usually lead with. A charismatic, libertarian populist candidate who presents as a rousing "libertarian of the heart," while retaining the core liberty ideas, can do better at reaching the masses. McAfee was one possibility, though he had an iffy background with the law and lack of preparation that limited his appeal. Other examples may include Kurt Russell, Adam Kokesh, Alex Jones, etc.

      2) Run liberty candidates who will also engage the voting blocs needed to build winning coalitions, and will aggressively fight the establishment barriers to liberty. This is the fundamental lesson learned from the last three election cycles, and cannot be sidestepped. A candidate who only satisfies the 5% liberty core, or can even grow the base towards 10% as Ron Paul did, does not get us to the 51% needed to win primaries and elections. If running within the GOP universe the candidates need to appeal to socons, tea partiers, or disaffected anti-establishment dynamics of the party. That means speaking to their issues and concerns from a liberty perspective, not just barking our issues at them. The candidates also need to be able to figure out how to "disable the tractor beam" of the media and leadership that constantly tries to marginalize liberty, or PC shame it into conformity.

      3) Pursue a Bi-partisan Open Seat Strategy (BOSS) to get more liberty candidates elected locally. Most seats are in areas that are not competitive for the purposes of liberty candidates winning the election, that is, they are dominated by GOP or Dem hacks who win with above 55+% of the vote. Recognizing that 95% of seats are gerrymandered to support Republican or Democrat (statist) incumbents, we should focus instead on running in a primary or special election where the incumbent is retiring, passed away, or removed by scandal. Run on a liberty platform to win the nomination of the dominant party in the district or area (if it's a deeply Democratic district, run a Ron Paul Democrat, or if Republican, run a Ron Paul Republican).

      Field for suitable candidates using the local CFL/RP/liberty meetups and mailing lists, or from the local LP. Upon winning the primary for the vacated seat, the liberty candidate then has the inside track to win the election. An example of how this results in victory is the Bentivolio case in Michigan (a RP supporter who won a house seat by being the only GOP candidate in the primary when the incumbent Republican retired). The BOSS approach should thus create higher percentage opportunities for liberty people to win seats, regardless of which major party way the district rolls.
    1. Natural Citizen's Avatar
      Natural Citizen -
      Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
      The "Liberty Movement" as I see it has pretty much gone underground.&nbsp; Almost everyone I talk to wants something along the lines of true liberty but they are ignorant as to what liberty is. When explained in simple terms most agree that it's what they desire but then the mind-fuk conditioning by the media comes in and they are hung up on things like roads, gun control, and their favorite welfare program (social or military).

      TPTB have full control of the brain washing apparatus and it's hard to break that conditioning...
      I think something that is missing is a common intention within the Liberty movement. It's a critical gap. And likely a decisive gap in terms of outcome.
    1. MattRay's Avatar
      MattRay -
      Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
      The sooner the good doctor drops dead, the happier the elite shall be.

      That is why we all have to become something similar in terms of beacons of truth and examples to those around us. I do what I can daily, but one man can do only so much, even if he is Ron Paul.

      One of my methods is to open carry everywhere I go. I even go to the bank armed. Other than two incidents, the response of my fellow West Virginians has been overwhelmingly positive. People need to see "liberty behavior" and not just hear the words. I can barely overemphasize how important this is. If you live in a hell hole like NY/NJ/CA/IL/HI/OH/RI/MA/CT, wear an empty holster and do it defiantly. If the people around you freak out, tough $#@!. If the cops give you $#@!, fear not. This is a comparatively small price to pay, IMO.

      The land is in grave jeopardy. Do what you can before it is too late.
      Fortunately, Ron Paul is still active and seems to be in great health for an 80 year old.

      Unfortunately, I live in New York, where the second amendment has been consistently violated. My father who has had virtually no run ins with LE throughout his six and a half decades wasn't even able to get a permit in NYC. Only when we moved to Long Island was he able to, and only able to go to and from the range. While we all know what the purpose of the 2nd amendment is, on a side note, an incident that showed the insanity of NY's gun laws is when 2 men tried to carjack him, but fortunately he happened to be coming from the range so he had his .44 Colt Anaconda on him. If he had been coming from anywhere else, though, who knows what would have happened? And NY's oppressive, unconstitutional gun laws would have been to blame. The other side of the spectrum is what I saw living in East New York, Brooklyn, and to a lesser extent, Bed-Stuy. I can think of one guy in particular on my block who loved waving around his AK-47, and obviously, this guy didn't have this legally. On my old block in East NY, gun shots were pretty much the norm when the sun started to set a bit in the summer, around 8-9 PM and later or with it pitch black in the winter, sometimes during earlier evening, and walking around those streets unarmed with gun shots going off feels like you're "naked." New York's gun laws are downright horrible. Of course, we also had the unconstitutional stop and frisk too, and not just for minorities either. I use to get it in Brooklyn primarily because I was a white guy in a black neighborhood, even just walking 3 blocks to the subway during the middle of the day, or standing 10 feet from my building smoking a cigarette, "we're looking for someone matching your description" ect. My experience in NYC, especially seeing my father and uncle trying to get work in carpentry and construction showed me how awful, oppressive and corrupt our unions are even before I became a libertarian. Man, does New York badly need the liberty movement.

      I try to do my part, particularly talking to people about the Fed and how it's the biggest problem we have and the cause or related to virtually every other problem. How our money is worthless paper, counterfeit ect. I try to explain the ABCT when I can, or point out how the New Deal was an unprecedented failure compared to other depressions and how the welfare state and FDR's legacy are built on a myth. How we don't have anything close to a free market and haven't had a limited government president since Coolidge. I've tried to use analogies for the government's behavior and before telling them I'm referring to the Federal Government, I get people thinking I'm referring to the mafia or something. I try to remind people taxation is extortion and I encourage people to work off the books.

      I do like your idea about the empty holster. As you know, I could never get away with open carry here, but I'm going to consider that.
    1. osan's Avatar
      osan -
      Quote Originally Posted by MattRay View Post
      Fortunately, Ron Paul is still active and seems to be in great health for an 80 year old.

      Unfortunately, I live in New York, where the second amendment has been consistently violated. My father who has had virtually no run ins with LE throughout his six and a half decades wasn't even able to get a permit in NYC. Only when we moved to Long Island was he able to, and only able to go to and from the range. While we all know what the purpose of the 2nd amendment is, on a side note, an incident that showed the insanity of NY's gun laws is when 2 men tried to carjack him, but fortunately he happened to be coming from the range so he had his .44 Colt Anaconda on him. If he had been coming from anywhere else, though, who knows what would have happened? And NY's oppressive, unconstitutional gun laws would have been to blame. The other side of the spectrum is what I saw living in East New York, Brooklyn, and to a lesser extent, Bed-Stuy. I can think of one guy in particular on my block who loved waving around his AK-47, and obviously, this guy didn't have this legally. On my old block in East NY, gun shots were pretty much the norm when the sun started to set a bit in the summer, around 8-9 PM and later or with it pitch black in the winter, sometimes during earlier evening, and walking around those streets unarmed with gun shots going off feels like you're "naked." New York's gun laws are downright horrible. Of course, we also had the unconstitutional stop and frisk too, and not just for minorities either. I use to get it in Brooklyn primarily because I was a white guy in a black neighborhood, even just walking 3 blocks to the subway during the middle of the day, or standing 10 feet from my building smoking a cigarette, "we're looking for someone matching your description" ect. My experience in NYC, especially seeing my father and uncle trying to get work in carpentry and construction showed me how awful, oppressive and corrupt our unions are even before I became a libertarian. Man, does New York badly need the liberty movement.

      I try to do my part, particularly talking to people about the Fed and how it's the biggest problem we have and the cause or related to virtually every other problem. How our money is worthless paper, counterfeit ect. I try to explain the ABCT when I can, or point out how the New Deal was an unprecedented failure compared to other depressions and how the welfare state and FDR's legacy are built on a myth. How we don't have anything close to a free market and haven't had a limited government president since Coolidge. I've tried to use analogies for the government's behavior and before telling them I'm referring to the Federal Government, I get people thinking I'm referring to the mafia or something. I try to remind people taxation is extortion and I encourage people to work off the books.

      I do like your idea about the empty holster. As you know, I could never get away with open carry here, but I'm going to consider that.
      I escaped my home town (NYC) in 1985. It has gotten progressively worse every year since.

      Every time I'm in the city, I wear an empty holster. Last time was on 9/11/10. There were thousands of cops everywhere and I was pretty sure I was going to go to jail that day. To my utter amazement, not one cop said a word to me about it. The only response I got was from a Puerto Rican woman on the subway who looked like she was about to start screaming as she attempted to press her own body through the wall of the car in her frantic desire to escape the presence of the Eville Holster (tm).

      Oddly, I went to the Starbuck's on Spring St. with my friend Jake and to my wild amazement there was another guy there with an empty shoulder-rig. I actually got up from our table and walked over to make sure I was seeing what I thought I was seeing. I said nothing to him and he apparently took no notice of me. It was very strange... in a nice sort of way.

      All I can say is be a little careful. You know how city cops can be. Corrupt as the day is long at the poles and at times touchy. So use some discretion. Otherwise, I say have at it.

      Did you know that 30 years ago residents of Suffolk and/or Nassau counties could carry with no permits? Used to work at Princeton Skate & Ski on Northern Blvd (now gone) and people used to some in with pistols on their hips often.

      Not no mo'.


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    Thread Starter: Brian4Liberty

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    Last Post By: Aratus Today, 04:17 AM Go to last post
    Swordsmyth

    Rand Paul Warns New US War Powers Act Will Rubber Stamp GLOBAL CONFLICT

    Thread Starter: Swordsmyth

    Senator Rand Paul warned Tuesday that a new war powers act currently making its way through the Senate will expand the President’s authority to declare war without the backing of Congress, essentially allowing the ‘Commander In Chief’ to wage war any where at any time. While the legislation has been presented as a plan to “reassert” Congressional power to “authorize where, when and with...

    Last Post By: Aratus Today, 04:13 AM Go to last post
    Matt Collins

    [VIDEO] Rand destroys Mike Pompeo in the Senate

    Thread Starter: Matt Collins

    https://www.facebook.com/thomas.massie.31/posts/2128628640495472

    Last Post By: Aratus Today, 04:10 AM Go to last post
    Brian4Liberty

    Former UK Ambassador Reveals Truth About Syria - With Special Guest Peter Ford

    Thread Starter: Brian4Liberty

    Former UK Ambassador Reveals Truth About Syria - With Special Guest Peter Ford

    Last Post By: osan Today, 02:23 AM Go to last post
    EBounding

    Rand Opposes Pompeo and Haspel

    Thread Starter: EBounding

    973937563068223488 --- Rand Paul: Why I’ll Fight Gina Haspel and Mike Pompeo Nominations

    Last Post By: Krugminator2 Yesterday, 05:34 PM Go to last post
    Brian4Liberty

    Rand Paul: Assad Must Be The Dumbest Dictator on the Planet

    Thread Starter: Brian4Liberty

    Rand Paul: "Assad either must be the dumbest Dictator on the planet or maybe he didn't do it" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4V3jQCi8-o

    Last Post By: Krugminator2 Yesterday, 05:32 PM Go to last post
  • General News & Politics

    euphemia

    [17 Dead] Numerous Fatalities at Douglas High School, Parkland, FL

    Thread Starter: euphemia

    Sad, sad, sad. A gunman opened fire at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High school in Parkland, Fla., on Wednesday, officials there said. According to local news reports, at least 20 people were injured. The Broward County Sheriff’s Office said the shooting suspect, who fled the scene, has been taken into custody. Follow below for the latest updates. Link1 At least 20 students were feared hurt...

    Last Post By: Valli6 Today, 08:32 AM Go to last post
    undergroundrr

    Trump Campaign Promise Fulfilled - Killing lots of families

    Thread Starter: undergroundrr

    https://airwars.org/news/1000th-allegation/ Here's some of this month's haul so far -

    Last Post By: Superfluous Man Today, 08:18 AM Go to last post
    ZakCarter

    Ben Swann: The Facebook Scandal

    Thread Starter: ZakCarter

    "The Facebook scandal involving personal data mishandled by Cambridge Analytica has raised concerns over the privacy of the information we share on our social media accounts. Some countries have gone as far as to legislate Internet data privacy with laws granting the “right to be forgotten.” Yet Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg says we don’t need such regulations here in the states. Is he right?...

    Last Post By: goldenequity Today, 08:01 AM Go to last post
    enhanced_deficit

    Do you think Nikki Haley should discuss killing of 32 Palestinian protesters by Israel?

    Thread Starter: enhanced_deficit

    After she is done with discussing Iran protests at UN, do you believe US tax payers funded Nikki Haley should discuss killing of 32 Palestinian protesters by US tax payers funded Israeli forces? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK9LWhsd3QI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRdKk00Uj5Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adfArZ5wpd0

    Last Post By: shakey1 Today, 07:53 AM Go to last post
    Anti Federalist

    Starbucks in hot water for having cops remove two black men from Philly store

    Thread Starter: Anti Federalist

    I do love when the Bolsheviks eat their own. Starbucks has spent years cultivating their SJW street cred, only to have it all blown away in a matter of five minutes because someone called cops. Do not call cops. Nothing ever good comes from it.

    Last Post By: EBounding Today, 07:14 AM Go to last post
    enhanced_deficit

    Trump's wars 2018: Civilian casualties in Afghanistan at near-record level this year

    Thread Starter: enhanced_deficit

    Endless war and diminishing freedoms, the buck stops at President's desk or at neocons' desk (if as suggested in some recent controversial theories that he may be reversing his pre-election anti-wars stances under duress)? Pre-election Trump: It is time to get out of Afghanistan ; Pence: Longest US War will go on

    Last Post By: TheCount Today, 06:37 AM Go to last post
    Swordsmyth

    Hillary’s Deleted Emails Have Been Found, Court Orders Them RELEASED

    Thread Starter: Swordsmyth

    Hillary Clinton’s deleted emails will be released to the public in September 2018, in accordance with a court ruling pertaining to the contents of Clinton’s “backup” email device. It turns out that fired FBI director James Comey had Hillary Clinton’s definitive backup email device the entire election and never searched it. Thanks to the work citizen researcher Larry Kawa, the coverage of...

    Last Post By: shakey1 Today, 05:50 AM Go to last post
    Swordsmyth

    Trump Overrules Sessions: Promises To Protect States' Pot Legalization Rights

    Thread Starter: Swordsmyth

    Just over 3 months ago, AG Jeff Sessions dropped a bongshell on the marijuana market when he rescinded policies allowing states to legalize pot. But now, following Sen. Cory Gardner's, the Colorado Republican, threat to block all DOJ nominations, The Washington Post reports that President Trump has defused the standoff and promised the top Senate Republican that he will support congressional...

    Last Post By: shakey1 Today, 05:44 AM Go to last post
    Swordsmyth

    Comey Calls McCabe A Liar, McCabe's Attorney Fires Back

    Thread Starter: Swordsmyth

    Comey stopped by ABC's The View to peddle his new book, A Higher Royalty Loyalty, where he called his former Deputy Andrew McCabe a liar, and admitted that he "ordered the report" which found McCabe guilty of leaking to the press and then lying under oath about it, several times. Comey was asked by host Megan McCain how he thought the public was supposed to have "confidence" in the FBI...

    Last Post By: shakey1 Today, 05:29 AM Go to last post
    TheCount

    Giuliani to Join Trump’s Legal Team

    Thread Starter: TheCount

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/19/us/politics/giuliani-trump.html

    Last Post By: Aratus Today, 04:02 AM Go to last post
  • Gold Chart

    [Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]
  • Silver Chart

  • Economics News & Discussion

    enhanced_deficit

    FEDERAL DEBT PRIMED TO EXPLODE...

    Thread Starter: enhanced_deficit

    From Drudge: FEDERAL DEBT PRIMED TO EXPLODE... Trillion-dollar deficits come roaring back... The GOP tax plan means short-term gains for the economy, but federal debt is primed to explode, CBO analysis says

    Last Post By: econ4every1 Today, 07:51 AM Go to last post
    Danke

    BANKERS TELL IT LIKE IT IS

    Thread Starter: Danke

    BANKERS TELL IT LIKE IT IS TOP 10 QUOTES THAT REVEAL THEIR CRIMES Posted on March 4, 2014 by Liberty Staff BankerExecRunningThe alternate financial media has been abuzz of late with bizarre stories of the alleged suicides of prominent members of world banking and finance. Over recent weeks, between eight and twelve (some say as many as twenty) successful traders and managers involved with...

    Last Post By: econ4every1 Today, 07:39 AM Go to last post
    Firestarter

    BlackRock, Vanguard, State Street own the US

    Thread Starter: Firestarter

    When investigating the 1 October Las Vegas “mass shooting” I found out about Vanguard and Fidelity (FMR). I postponed starting a thread on this, because there were some other things I wanted to do first. First I looked at the major shareholders in Live Nation Entertainment Inc, which includes Vanguard (several times) and Fidelity:...

    Last Post By: Firestarter Today, 04:27 AM Go to last post
    anaconda

    Bitcoin Cracks $5000

    Thread Starter: anaconda

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/cbovaird/2017/09/01/bitcoin-price-tops-5000-as-cryptocurrencies-march-higher/#6d8dc42a5a8e

    Last Post By: kpitcher Yesterday, 11:10 PM Go to last post
    Suzanimal

    What If Everybody Didn't Have to Work to Get Paid?

    Thread Starter: Suzanimal

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/05/what-if-everybody-didnt-have-to-work-to-get-paid/393428/

    Last Post By: heavenlyboy34 Yesterday, 10:25 PM Go to last post
    ChooseLiberty

    Market Crash Looming

    Thread Starter: ChooseLiberty

    Wuh Woh It's October, time for a crash. It's not that easy is it? Is it? http://www.safehaven.com/article-14697.htm

    Last Post By: Madison320 Yesterday, 09:52 PM Go to last post
  • Bitcoin Chart

  • Living Free and Healthy

    donnay

    World Renowned Scientists Have Their Lab Shut Down After Troublesome vaccine Discovery

    Thread Starter: donnay

    http://www.collective-evolution.com/2018/04/17/world-renowned-scientists-have-their-lab-shut-down-after-troublesome-vaccine-discovery/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

    Last Post By: Firestarter Today, 08:34 AM Go to last post
    donnay

    Dirty Vaccines: Every Human Vaccine Tested Was Contaminated With Metals and Debris in New Stud

    Thread Starter: donnay

    Dirty Vaccines: Every Human Vaccine Tested Was Contaminated With Metals and Debris in New Study Thursday, February 2nd 2017 at 1:15 am Written By: Celeste McGovern Researchers examining 44 samples of 30 different vaccines found dangerous contaminants, including red blood cells in one vaccine and metal toxicants in every single sample tested – except in one animal vaccine. Using...

    Last Post By: donnay Today, 08:10 AM Go to last post
    Danke

    It is gonna be a cold winter.

    Thread Starter: Danke

    This fall the Indians on a remote reservation asked their new Chief Oyarde if the coming winter was going to be cold or mild. Since he was a chief in a modern society, he’d never learned the old tribal secrets. He couldn’t look at the sky to predict what the winter was going to be like. "It's going to be a very cold winter." So just to be on the safe side, Oyarde told his tribe that the...

    Last Post By: Anti Federalist Today, 01:36 AM Go to last post
    donnay

    15 Impressive Benefits Of Spinach

    Thread Starter: donnay

    https://www.organicfacts.net/health-benefits/vegetable/health-benefits-of-spinach.html?utm_source=onesignal&utm_medium=18Apr18WebPush

    Last Post By: donnay 04-18-2018, 08:29 AM Go to last post
  • Education & Thought Power

    Intoxiklown

    Anarch, State and Utopia by Robert Nozick

    Thread Starter: Intoxiklown

    Wanted to post this as I had never heard of this book before nor seen it mentioned here on the forums that I recall. A friend suggested I check it out following a discussion about politics and realizing my views were grounded in libertarian philosophy. I'm about half way through it but so far it's really good (good enough that I took a break to mention it here). But apparently this book had a lot...

    Last Post By: r3volution 3.0 04-18-2018, 04:43 PM Go to last post
    Firestarter

    Drugs profits for Oil wars

    Thread Starter: Firestarter

    I found an interesting book that describes the “War by drugs”- Peter Dale Scott “Drugs, Oil, and War: The United States in Afghanistan, Columbia, and Indochina” (2003): https://ourrebellion.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/book-the-us-in-afghanistan-colombia-and-indo-china.pdf It is 16 GB to download (I’ve saved it as a text document at 0.5 GB)… My very short summary of the Peter Dale Scott book is...

    Last Post By: Firestarter 04-18-2018, 10:22 AM Go to last post
    phill4paul

    The History of Policing in the United States

    Thread Starter: phill4paul

    I am placing this treatise in the U.S. Political News as opposed to Individual Rights Violations: Case Studies for a simple fact...the actions of the law enforcement community is inseparable from the dictum of the forum definition. This is indeed political news pertaining to the U.S. Government, with regards to domestic affairs, for some. As you will read, law enforcement is...

    Last Post By: phill4paul 04-17-2018, 02:52 PM Go to last post
    euphemia

    Let's Make America America Again

    Thread Starter: euphemia

    If you want to go back to watch Scott Baio's speech, you can. It was only about four and a half minutes. He concluded with the line, "Let's make America America again." This is a sentence that makes me want to ask, "What is America?" If our Founding Fathers were here today and scripting a return to America, what would that look like to you?

    Last Post By: oyarde 04-16-2018, 06:36 PM Go to last post
    John Prewett

    So here we are. How'd we get here ?

    Thread Starter: John Prewett

    http://time.com/5237922/mike-pompeo-russia-confirmation/ https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-military-killed-200-russia-troops-syria-airstrikes-claims-trump-ally-152538307.html So here we are. Allegedly for sake of Syrian people, the USA now has the blood of Russian soldiers on it's hands. “Sovereign” USA is now flagrantly breaking international law and defying the American constitution. This...

    Last Post By: oyarde 04-16-2018, 01:06 PM Go to last post
    Firestarter

    Dragon court

    Thread Starter: Firestarter

    After I found out, in December 2016, that the elite have been drinking the blood of the young (vampirism) for centuries, I continued my investigation. The trail of these bloodsuckers leads to a group that’s known by a variety of names: Dragon Court, Order of the Dragon and Dragon society. Queen Elizabeth and Prince Charles are descendents of the “real” Count Dracula, Vlad Tepes (which means...

    Last Post By: Firestarter 04-16-2018, 10:43 AM Go to last post
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