• State of the Liberty movement

    The national campaigns aren't helping at the moment. They won't let us win, so education is the best we could get from national campaigns and Ron Paul really showed the power of that, surveys on this forum confirmed it. Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul, not even a McAfee, he won't get the word out, maybe a bastardized compromise that may help us in future coalitions but could hurt us too.

    Grassroots is where it is at for feeding the tree of Liberty, it will blossom on its own given enough food. Given the timeline this nation and other nations are on, we don't have much hope of straightening course from the helm, we need to be bracing for impact individually and as a result hopefully collectively. We need to feed the tree of Liberty in our own lives, with our own families, neighbors and yes, local politics.

    If we assume this bad boy is going to come crashing down from the top, those who best stand to benefit will be those ready for it at the bottom. As their national leaders fail them, which is ever so obvious, the people will be looking for answers locally, which is where we stand to benefit. Those of us who correctly witness the situation we are in to our families, neighbors and communities will be looked on prophetically as Ron Paul was, as it comes to pass. Be yourself, campaign individually as we know we all do, maybe take a look at a community board seat, county position or even state if one were ambitious like Ron, Rand, Amash and Masie. Local politics WILL matter when national politics fails.


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    Comments 23 Comments
    1. jllundqu's Avatar
      jllundqu -
      Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
      The national campaigns aren't helping at the moment. They won't let us win, so education is the best we could get from national campaigns and Ron Paul really showed the power of that, surveys on this forum confirmed it. Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul, not even a McAfee, he won't get the word out, maybe a bastardized compromise that may help us in future coalitions but could hurt us too.

      Grassroots is where it is at for feeding the tree of Liberty, it will blossom on its own given enough food. Given the timeline this nation and other nations are on, we don't have much hope of straightening course from the helm, we need to be bracing for impact individually and as a result hopefully collectively. We need to feed the tree of Liberty in our own lives, with our own families, neighbors and yes, local politics.

      If we assume this bad boy is going to come crashing down from the top, those who best stand to benefit will be those ready for it at the bottom. As their national leaders fail them, which is ever so obvious, the people will be looking for answers locally which is where we stand to benefit. Those of us who correctly witness the situation we are in to our families, neighbors and communities will be looked on prophetically as Ron Paul was as it comes to pass. Be yourself, campaign individually as we know we all do, maybe take a look at a community board seat, county position or even state if one where ambitious like Ron, Rand, Amash and Masie. Local politics WILL matter when national politics fails.
      Agreed. Local is where it's at. THings will continue to devolve until either a war, economic collapse, attack on the grid, or some combo leave people cutoff from national concerns... local communities, churches, and town/city officials will be who to go to... Get in at the local level. Get to know your neighbors. This country is due for some serious reckoning in the coming years.
    1. acptulsa's Avatar
      acptulsa -
      Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
      The national campaigns aren't helping at the moment. They won't let us win, so education is the best we could get from national campaigns and Ron Paul really showed the power of that, surveys on this forum confirmed it. Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul, not even a McAfee, he won't get the word out, maybe a bastardized compromise that may help us in future coalitions but could hurt us too.
      The most important bit of education we could do at this point, in my opinion, would be to educate people about the Twelfth Amendment. By doing just enough to win over disaffected Sanders voters, without doing enough to offend those mainstream Republicans who can't stomach the orange clown, Johnson is potentially doing just what it takes to make people take a serious interest in the Twelfth Amendment.

      That's not something you spark interest in by not running to win a significant portion of the vote. That's something you spark interest in by stealing enough votes from both major parties to get them below fifty percent apiece.
    1. phill4paul's Avatar
      phill4paul -
      <<<insert applause gif>>>

      +rep. The Fed/Gov is so $#@!ed it's not possible to right it. In the 10 yrs. I've been on this forum we've managed to help get perhaps a handful of liberty representatives. We don't have another 100 yrs. before it comes crashing down. Beans, bullion, bullets and local ballots.
    1. osan's Avatar
      osan -
      Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
      The national campaigns aren't helping at the moment. They won't let us win, so education is the best we could get from national campaigns and Ron Paul really showed the power of that, surveys on this forum confirmed it. Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul, not even a McAfee, he won't get the word out, maybe a bastardized compromise that may help us in future coalitions but could hurt us too.

      Grassroots is where it is at for feeding the tree of Liberty, it will blossom on its own given enough food. Given the timeline this nation and other nations are on, we don't have much hope of straightening course from the helm, we need to be bracing for impact individually and as a result hopefully collectively. We need to feed the tree of Liberty in our own lives, with our own families, neighbors and yes, local politics.

      If we assume this bad boy is going to come crashing down from the top, those who best stand to benefit will be those ready for it at the bottom. As their national leaders fail them, which is ever so obvious, the people will be looking for answers locally, which is where we stand to benefit. Those of us who correctly witness the situation we are in to our families, neighbors and communities will be looked on prophetically as Ron Paul was, as it comes to pass. Be yourself, campaign individually as we know we all do, maybe take a look at a community board seat, county position or even state if one were ambitious like Ron, Rand, Amash and Masie. Local politics WILL matter when national politics fails.

      Even if a great messiah rose to the Seat, so what? Without people who are liberty literate and wanton of that state, freedom has no chance. As of this minute, it has no chance. That may change, and I sincerely hope it does. So yeah, education is key.
    1. bunklocoempire's Avatar
      bunklocoempire -
      Agreed. + rep OP island neighbor, who I still have yet to meet.

      Know your neighbors, anticipate their strengths & weaknesses.

      The more that people's resources are squeezed, the more things become obvious locally, and the better to capitalize.

      Local politics matters greatly, right now.

      Witness Jen Ruggles, emerging to challenge Danny Paleka for Puna district county council seat. She is capitalizing on the local corruption brought to light (again). The tighter things get, the more people pay attention. Hawaii IS corruption, has been for a long time, so what changed? The peasant's conditions, as far as I can tell. Some, who are not connected to power, are not so willing to look the other way these days.

      Does Jen have it all together? No way. She is not yet consistent with the concept of "consent" (services we can't opt out of), but she has previously mentioned peace, and that tells me she may be open to learning the peace benefits of aloha, rather than always going to government force.

      This is painful to watch, but it's Puna's current county council political reality. I offer it simply as an incentive to explore your own local area, to see what you're up against, and to think about a tailored message for your neighbors. Some of the local powers that be, have become incredibly lazy with their messaging (Paleka), and have left themselves vulnerable. Tell me there isn't opportunity, after listening to this disjointed candidate "forum". lol



      Do you smell the fear wafting from Danny? I sure do. If he was truly "pono for Puna", he'd wouldn't know fear. His "pono" moniker (righteousness, righteous idea) isn't consistent with his use of government force to implement his agenda. I'll be attempting to remind locals about the inconsistencies of the local rulers, every time those rulers make the mistake of whipping out "aloha" to promote government force. They whip it out EVERY time.

      Interesting times, a spooked herd, some spooked rulers (leaders are rare), and more and more opportunity every passing day. SWOOP! SWOOP!
    1. Ronin Truth's Avatar
      Ronin Truth -
      What about the Liberty of the State movement?
    1. CPUd's Avatar
      CPUd -
    1. Athan's Avatar
      Athan -
      Usually when a movement's steam is running out, it is because it is no longer addressing the needs it should be. In short, the liberty movement has allowed itself to stagnate while "alt-right" have taken our ideas of banks, foreign policy, monetary policies, and etc and are running with them by picking up and talking about points we either refuse to address, to controversial for us to break down, or feel to unimportant to our ideals.

      They aren't afraid of being edgy, controversial, and aggressive. This is why I myself barely come to ronpaulforums for news anymore. This and Daily Paul used to be THEE place for news shills wanted to keep from going public.
    1. MattRay's Avatar
      MattRay -
      I've been concerned about this since Dr. Paul hasn't been in the spotlight as much the last few years. His message was so compelling, so well articulated and with so much credibility, particularly on monetrary policy/economics, the drug war and foreign policy, I don't know who else can take the liberty movement to the next level. I do view this year as a golden opportunity, but Weld has the potential to screw it up and it can be tough to overlook Johnson on religious liberty and discrimination. But he's at least started promoting the NAP a bit and he's a big step in the right direction compared to the GOP, Dems, Trump ect. on foreign policy/intervention, free markets, the drug war, taxes, term limits ect. But I hope some newcomers/converts recognize the difference between libertarianism and The Libertarian Party. Ron Paul's campaigns were so great because they coincided with some excellent books he authored, which thankfully included some suggested reading as well so I was able to discover great books like Rothbard's America's Great Depression for instance and learn about the Austrian Business Cycle theory. Sadly, I doubt we'll be seeing the ABCT from Johnson and this certainly isn't inspiring time in the liberty movement like 2007-2012 nor is this a campaign about education like Dr. Paul's 3 campaigns, but it remains a good opportunity so I'm excited about that nonetheless. I have to say that I disagree about McAfee too. I'm happy he didn't get the nomination because he would have done us no favors expanding the movement and just added to the misconception that libertarians are weird, crazy ect. Peteresen definitely had his strengths, particularly a better understanding of libertarianism than Johnson(except for his views on the NAP) and the right idea reaching out to conservatives, though I wasn't sure how many were going to take him seriously considering he looks like a kid and has never held any political office. On the bright side, at least Gary is doing one thing Austin wouldn't, which is promote the NAP. Really, the best hope for the future is Amash as far as I can see. He really is excellent, imo and a breath of fresh air, but he's not that well known yet.
    1. afwjam's Avatar
      afwjam -
      Johnson was and is the weakest Libertarian because he just does not "get it", he does not pull the whole picture together with Liberty being the answer. McAfee got it, Petersen got it, Ron for sure got it. Johnson and his socially liberal, fiscally conservative best of the democrats and republicans campaign won't do us any favors unless we think Bernie supporters are going to learn real Liberty principles from him(they won't) and remain a part of a future coalition. I can only dream, but McAfee would be making waves right now dropping truth bombs, some might call it crazy, I call it common sense. knowing that he is not educated in Libertarian scholars, I was even more impressed with McAfee because he got it on a gut level, making the right calls on principles and values. He was a breath of fresh air during the debates, fun yet right, Johnson is a philosophical mess and completely uninspiring.
    1. jkob's Avatar
      jkob -
      we'll have a better understanding of where we're at after these coming primaries

      still hoping to put John McCain into retirement
    1. afwjam's Avatar
      afwjam -
      Quote Originally Posted by jkob View Post
      we'll have a better understanding of where we're at after these coming primaries

      still hoping to put John McCain into retirement
      Looks like there are a couple glimmers of hope, a senate seat and a couple house seats would be nice.
    1. Natural Citizen's Avatar
      Natural Citizen -
      Quote Originally Posted by Athan View Post
      Usually when a movement's steam is running out, it is because it is no longer addressing the needs it should be. In short, the liberty movement has allowed itself to stagnate while "alt-right" have taken our ideas of banks, foreign policy, monetary policies, and etc and are running with them by picking up and talking about points we either refuse to address, to controversial for us to break down, or feel to unimportant to our ideals.

      They aren't afraid of being edgy, controversial, and aggressive. This is why I myself barely come to ronpaulforums for news anymore. This and Daily Paul used to be THEE place for news shills wanted to keep from going public.
      Well. I Don't know. What do you think we should do? I mean, screw it, I'm open to ideas. I don't even mind starting over again. Heck, that might even be the better plan.

      I'm of the view that we'd do better to get back to the more meaningful fundamental things. That's just me talking, though. Some may and likely will disagree.
    1. ChristianAnarchist's Avatar
      ChristianAnarchist -
      The "Liberty Movement" as I see it has pretty much gone underground.&nbsp; Almost everyone I talk to wants something along the lines of true liberty but they are ignorant as to what liberty is. When explained in simple terms most agree that it's what they desire but then the mind-fuk conditioning by the media comes in and they are hung up on things like roads, gun control, and their favorite welfare program (social or military).

      TPTB have full control of the brain washing apparatus and it's hard to break that conditioning...
    1. MattRay's Avatar
      MattRay -
      Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
      Johnson was and is the weakest Libertarian because he just does not "get it", he does not pull the whole picture together with Liberty being the answer. McAfee got it, Petersen got it, Ron for sure got it. Johnson and his socially liberal, fiscally conservative best of the democrats and republicans campaign won't do us any favors unless we think Bernie supporters are going to learn real Liberty principles from him(they won't) and remain a part of a future coalition. I can only dream, but McAfee would be making waves right now dropping truth bombs, some might call it crazy, I call it common sense. knowing that he is not educated in Libertarian scholars, I was even more impressed with McAfee because he got it on a gut level, making the right calls on principles and values. He was a breath of fresh air during the debates, fun yet right, Johnson is a philosophical mess and completely uninspiring.
      There's no doubt McAfee is better philosophically and I would have definitely supported him had he been the nominee, but given all of the stuff out there about him(unrelated to his ideology), I don't know how many would have even given him a fair chance. The media basically refuses to discuss ideology and loves the tabloid type stuff. I'm not even talking about people's reactions to his ideas, I worry about people even listening to the ideas and giving them a fair chance. It's hard enough to get people to listen to any principles in politics, but in particular, I worried McAfee had too much baggage for people who aren't already libertarians to get past. As it is, I wish Johnson wasn't as eccentric as he was and certainly wish we didn't have things like the guy stripping at the LP convention. I wish more followed Ron Paul's example, including presentation. Maybe I'm too cynical, but once Rand's campaign failed to gain traction, I've had very low expectations for the liberty movement in this election. Basically, I resigned myself to just hoping for a much better showing in the election to build on so the next Ron Paul or even Harry Browne isn't completely ignored like in '88 or '96 and 2000 and hopefully a crack in the armor of the one party monopoly. The one real positive I see with Trump's campaign is that I think he's actually helping with that, as is the cynicism caused by a candidate as terrible as Hillary being forced on the public.
    1. osan's Avatar
      osan -
      Quote Originally Posted by MattRay View Post
      I've been concerned about this since Dr. Paul hasn't been in the spotlight as much the last few years. His message was so compelling, so well articulated and with so much credibility, particularly on monetrary policy/economics, the drug war and foreign policy, I don't know who else can take the liberty movement to the next level. I do view this year as a golden opportunity, but Weld has the potential to screw it up and it can be tough to overlook Johnson on religious liberty and discrimination. But he's at least started promoting the NAP a bit and he's a big step in the right direction compared to the GOP, Dems, Trump ect. on foreign policy/intervention, free markets, the drug war, taxes, term limits ect. But I hope some newcomers/converts recognize the difference between libertarianism and The Libertarian Party. Ron Paul's campaigns were so great because they coincided with some excellent books he authored, which thankfully included some suggested reading as well so I was able to discover great books like Rothbard's America's Great Depression for instance and learn about the Austrian Business Cycle theory. Sadly, I doubt we'll be seeing the ABCT from Johnson and this certainly isn't inspiring time in the liberty movement like 2007-2012 nor is this a campaign about education like Dr. Paul's 3 campaigns, but it remains a good opportunity so I'm excited about that nonetheless. I have to say that I disagree about McAfee too. I'm happy he didn't get the nomination because he would have done us no favors expanding the movement and just added to the misconception that libertarians are weird, crazy ect. Peteresen definitely had his strengths, particularly a better understanding of libertarianism than Johnson(except for his views on the NAP) and the right idea reaching out to conservatives, though I wasn't sure how many were going to take him seriously considering he looks like a kid and has never held any political office. On the bright side, at least Gary is doing one thing Austin wouldn't, which is promote the NAP. Really, the best hope for the future is Amash as far as I can see. He really is excellent, imo and a breath of fresh air, but he's not that well known yet.
      The sooner the good doctor drops dead, the happier the elite shall be.

      That is why we all have to become something similar in terms of beacons of truth and examples to those around us. I do what I can daily, but one man can do only so much, even if he is Ron Paul.

      One of my methods is to open carry everywhere I go. I even go to the bank armed. Other than two incidents, the response of my fellow West Virginians has been overwhelmingly positive. People need to see "liberty behavior" and not just hear the words. I can barely overemphasize how important this is. If you live in a hell hole like NY/NJ/CA/IL/HI/OH/RI/MA/CT, wear an empty holster and do it defiantly. If the people around you freak out, tough $#@!. If the cops give you $#@!, fear not. This is a comparatively small price to pay, IMO.

      The land is in grave jeopardy. Do what you can before it is too late.
    1. Peace&Freedom's Avatar
      Peace&Freedom -
      I've suggested three basic approaches going forward to advance liberty, both nationally and locally:

      1) Run candidates with a Ron Paul like mind, and a William Wallace like alpha vibe. Much of the public has to be reached by means other than reason, as they are turned off by the 'brainiac' form of libertarianism we usually lead with. A charismatic, libertarian populist candidate who presents as a rousing "libertarian of the heart," while retaining the core liberty ideas, can do better at reaching the masses. McAfee was one possibility, though he had an iffy background with the law and lack of preparation that limited his appeal. Other examples may include Kurt Russell, Adam Kokesh, Alex Jones, etc.

      2) Run liberty candidates who will also engage the voting blocs needed to build winning coalitions, and will aggressively fight the establishment barriers to liberty. This is the fundamental lesson learned from the last three election cycles, and cannot be sidestepped. A candidate who only satisfies the 5% liberty core, or can even grow the base towards 10% as Ron Paul did, does not get us to the 51% needed to win primaries and elections. If running within the GOP universe the candidates need to appeal to socons, tea partiers, or disaffected anti-establishment dynamics of the party. That means speaking to their issues and concerns from a liberty perspective, not just barking our issues at them. The candidates also need to be able to figure out how to "disable the tractor beam" of the media and leadership that constantly tries to marginalize liberty, or PC shame it into conformity.

      3) Pursue a Bi-partisan Open Seat Strategy (BOSS) to get more liberty candidates elected locally. Most seats are in areas that are not competitive for the purposes of liberty candidates winning the election, that is, they are dominated by GOP or Dem hacks who win with above 55+% of the vote. Recognizing that 95% of seats are gerrymandered to support Republican or Democrat (statist) incumbents, we should focus instead on running in a primary or special election where the incumbent is retiring, passed away, or removed by scandal. Run on a liberty platform to win the nomination of the dominant party in the district or area (if it's a deeply Democratic district, run a Ron Paul Democrat, or if Republican, run a Ron Paul Republican).

      Field for suitable candidates using the local CFL/RP/liberty meetups and mailing lists, or from the local LP. Upon winning the primary for the vacated seat, the liberty candidate then has the inside track to win the election. An example of how this results in victory is the Michael Bentivolio case in Michigan (a RP supporter who won a house seat by being the only GOP candidate in the primary when the incumbent Republican retired). The BOSS approach should thus create higher percentage opportunities for liberty people to win seats, regardless of which major party way the district rolls.
    1. Natural Citizen's Avatar
      Natural Citizen -
      Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
      The "Liberty Movement" as I see it has pretty much gone underground.&nbsp; Almost everyone I talk to wants something along the lines of true liberty but they are ignorant as to what liberty is. When explained in simple terms most agree that it's what they desire but then the mind-fuk conditioning by the media comes in and they are hung up on things like roads, gun control, and their favorite welfare program (social or military).

      TPTB have full control of the brain washing apparatus and it's hard to break that conditioning...
      I think something that is missing is a common intention within the Liberty movement. It's a critical gap. And likely a decisive gap in terms of outcome.
    1. MattRay's Avatar
      MattRay -
      Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
      The sooner the good doctor drops dead, the happier the elite shall be.

      That is why we all have to become something similar in terms of beacons of truth and examples to those around us. I do what I can daily, but one man can do only so much, even if he is Ron Paul.

      One of my methods is to open carry everywhere I go. I even go to the bank armed. Other than two incidents, the response of my fellow West Virginians has been overwhelmingly positive. People need to see "liberty behavior" and not just hear the words. I can barely overemphasize how important this is. If you live in a hell hole like NY/NJ/CA/IL/HI/OH/RI/MA/CT, wear an empty holster and do it defiantly. If the people around you freak out, tough $#@!. If the cops give you $#@!, fear not. This is a comparatively small price to pay, IMO.

      The land is in grave jeopardy. Do what you can before it is too late.
      Fortunately, Ron Paul is still active and seems to be in great health for an 80 year old.

      Unfortunately, I live in New York, where the second amendment has been consistently violated. My father who has had virtually no run ins with LE throughout his six and a half decades wasn't even able to get a permit in NYC. Only when we moved to Long Island was he able to, and only able to go to and from the range. While we all know what the purpose of the 2nd amendment is, on a side note, an incident that showed the insanity of NY's gun laws is when 2 men tried to carjack him, but fortunately he happened to be coming from the range so he had his .44 Colt Anaconda on him. If he had been coming from anywhere else, though, who knows what would have happened? And NY's oppressive, unconstitutional gun laws would have been to blame. The other side of the spectrum is what I saw living in East New York, Brooklyn, and to a lesser extent, Bed-Stuy. I can think of one guy in particular on my block who loved waving around his AK-47, and obviously, this guy didn't have this legally. On my old block in East NY, gun shots were pretty much the norm when the sun started to set a bit in the summer, around 8-9 PM and later or with it pitch black in the winter, sometimes during earlier evening, and walking around those streets unarmed with gun shots going off feels like you're "naked." New York's gun laws are downright horrible. Of course, we also had the unconstitutional stop and frisk too, and not just for minorities either. I use to get it in Brooklyn primarily because I was a white guy in a black neighborhood, even just walking 3 blocks to the subway during the middle of the day, or standing 10 feet from my building smoking a cigarette, "we're looking for someone matching your description" ect. My experience in NYC, especially seeing my father and uncle trying to get work in carpentry and construction showed me how awful, oppressive and corrupt our unions are even before I became a libertarian. Man, does New York badly need the liberty movement.

      I try to do my part, particularly talking to people about the Fed and how it's the biggest problem we have and the cause or related to virtually every other problem. How our money is worthless paper, counterfeit ect. I try to explain the ABCT when I can, or point out how the New Deal was an unprecedented failure compared to other depressions and how the welfare state and FDR's legacy are built on a myth. How we don't have anything close to a free market and haven't had a limited government president since Coolidge. I've tried to use analogies for the government's behavior and before telling them I'm referring to the Federal Government, I get people thinking I'm referring to the mafia or something. I try to remind people taxation is extortion and I encourage people to work off the books.

      I do like your idea about the empty holster. As you know, I could never get away with open carry here, but I'm going to consider that.
    1. osan's Avatar
      osan -
      Quote Originally Posted by MattRay View Post
      Fortunately, Ron Paul is still active and seems to be in great health for an 80 year old.

      Unfortunately, I live in New York, where the second amendment has been consistently violated. My father who has had virtually no run ins with LE throughout his six and a half decades wasn't even able to get a permit in NYC. Only when we moved to Long Island was he able to, and only able to go to and from the range. While we all know what the purpose of the 2nd amendment is, on a side note, an incident that showed the insanity of NY's gun laws is when 2 men tried to carjack him, but fortunately he happened to be coming from the range so he had his .44 Colt Anaconda on him. If he had been coming from anywhere else, though, who knows what would have happened? And NY's oppressive, unconstitutional gun laws would have been to blame. The other side of the spectrum is what I saw living in East New York, Brooklyn, and to a lesser extent, Bed-Stuy. I can think of one guy in particular on my block who loved waving around his AK-47, and obviously, this guy didn't have this legally. On my old block in East NY, gun shots were pretty much the norm when the sun started to set a bit in the summer, around 8-9 PM and later or with it pitch black in the winter, sometimes during earlier evening, and walking around those streets unarmed with gun shots going off feels like you're "naked." New York's gun laws are downright horrible. Of course, we also had the unconstitutional stop and frisk too, and not just for minorities either. I use to get it in Brooklyn primarily because I was a white guy in a black neighborhood, even just walking 3 blocks to the subway during the middle of the day, or standing 10 feet from my building smoking a cigarette, "we're looking for someone matching your description" ect. My experience in NYC, especially seeing my father and uncle trying to get work in carpentry and construction showed me how awful, oppressive and corrupt our unions are even before I became a libertarian. Man, does New York badly need the liberty movement.

      I try to do my part, particularly talking to people about the Fed and how it's the biggest problem we have and the cause or related to virtually every other problem. How our money is worthless paper, counterfeit ect. I try to explain the ABCT when I can, or point out how the New Deal was an unprecedented failure compared to other depressions and how the welfare state and FDR's legacy are built on a myth. How we don't have anything close to a free market and haven't had a limited government president since Coolidge. I've tried to use analogies for the government's behavior and before telling them I'm referring to the Federal Government, I get people thinking I'm referring to the mafia or something. I try to remind people taxation is extortion and I encourage people to work off the books.

      I do like your idea about the empty holster. As you know, I could never get away with open carry here, but I'm going to consider that.
      I escaped my home town (NYC) in 1985. It has gotten progressively worse every year since.

      Every time I'm in the city, I wear an empty holster. Last time was on 9/11/10. There were thousands of cops everywhere and I was pretty sure I was going to go to jail that day. To my utter amazement, not one cop said a word to me about it. The only response I got was from a Puerto Rican woman on the subway who looked like she was about to start screaming as she attempted to press her own body through the wall of the car in her frantic desire to escape the presence of the Eville Holster (tm).

      Oddly, I went to the Starbuck's on Spring St. with my friend Jake and to my wild amazement there was another guy there with an empty shoulder-rig. I actually got up from our table and walked over to make sure I was seeing what I thought I was seeing. I said nothing to him and he apparently took no notice of me. It was very strange... in a nice sort of way.

      All I can say is be a little careful. You know how city cops can be. Corrupt as the day is long at the poles and at times touchy. So use some discretion. Otherwise, I say have at it.

      Did you know that 30 years ago residents of Suffolk and/or Nassau counties could carry with no permits? Used to work at Princeton Skate & Ski on Northern Blvd (now gone) and people used to some in with pistols on their hips often.

      Not no mo'.


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    Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/09/18/sen-rand-paul-grahamcassidy-does-not-repeal-obamacare-and-oppose-it.html?utm_content=bufferf29be&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    Last Post By: tommyrp12 Today, 12:02 PM Go to last post
    Swordsmyth

    Rand Paul Pushes 'Provocative Idea' for NKorea's Nuke Program

    Thread Starter: Swordsmyth

    Paul proposed this to Tucker: "North Korea gives up all of their nuclear weapons. "Dismantle them all and goes basically dormant, if not to a point where they cannot make them. "In exchange, we say we're going to invite 10,000 Chinese troops to be part of an international force at the DMZ to ensure that South Korea doesn't invade or that the U.S. doesn't invade," Paul continued. ...

    Last Post By: r3volution 3.0 Yesterday, 04:28 PM Go to last post
    Brian4Liberty

    Bannon Reveals The Truth About Trump...It's All About The "American System"

    Thread Starter: Brian4Liberty

    Bannon Reveals The Truth About Trump...It's All About The "American System"

    Last Post By: phill4paul Yesterday, 03:52 PM Go to last post
    Origanalist

    Nikki Haley Meltdown: Assad Must Go...and War With North Korea!

    Thread Starter: Origanalist

    NEOCON WATCH Nikki Haley Meltdown: Assad Must Go...and War With North Korea! written by daniel mcadams friday september 15, 2017 There must be something about being named US Ambassador to the UN that brings out the inner mass murderer in people. Madeline Albright famously admitted that she thought 500,000 dead Iraqi children due to US sanctions was "worth it." John Bolton never met...

    Last Post By: shakey1 Yesterday, 01:15 PM Go to last post
  • General News & Politics

    Zippyjuan

    In U.N. speech, Trump threatens to ‘totally destroy North Korea’ and calls Kim Jong Un ‘Rocket

    Thread Starter: Zippyjuan

    Entire speech sounded like Bush's "Axis of Evil" speech. One reason North Korea wants nuclear weapons is to act as a deterrent to any possible US military attack. Such words will tell them they are right to be worried and will expand rather than halt their programs. He also was critical of Iran and the nuclear agreement with them (every agreement seems to be the "worse ever")-...

    Last Post By: NorthCarolinaLiberty Today, 01:06 PM Go to last post
    goldenequity

    Trump UN Speech Transcript

    Thread Starter: goldenequity

    ------------------ Mr. Secretary General, Mr. President, world leaders, and distinguished delegates, welcome to New York. It is a profound honor to stand here in my home city as a representative of the American people to address the people of the world. As millions of our citizens continue to suffer the effects of the devastating hurricanes that have struck our country, I want to begin by...

    Last Post By: goldenequity Today, 01:05 PM Go to last post
    Pepsi

    Electoral College in danger

    Thread Starter: Pepsi

    The National Popular Vote bill has now been signed into law in states possessing 61 electoral votes. This is almost one-quarter of the 270 electoral votes needed to bring the National Popular Vote interstate compact into effect. Maryland – 10 electoral votes New Jersey – 15 electoral votes Illinois – 21 electoral votes Hawaii – 4 electoral votes Washington – 11 electoral votes ...

    Last Post By: Voluntarist Today, 01:00 PM Go to last post
    dannno

    Pepe Creator Serving Frivolous Anti-Speech Lawsuits Against Meme Sharers

    Thread Starter: dannno

    It gets more interesting.. Mike Cernovich: Javanka's deep state law firm threatens me with frivolous censorship lawsuit Mike Cernovich denounced the Alt-right about a year ago, prepared to sue for attorney fees.

    Last Post By: tommyrp12 Today, 12:34 PM Go to last post
    Anti Federalist

    "Food Stamp" beneficiaries decline every month since Trump took office

    Thread Starter: Anti Federalist

    Again, credit where due, even if it was only based on bluster and bull$#@!. Food Stamp Usage Has Fallen Every Month of Trump Presidency http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/09/18/food-stamp-usage-has-fallen-every-month-of-trump-presidency/ by KATHERINE RODRIGUEZ18 Sep 20170

    Last Post By: Zippyjuan Today, 12:28 PM Go to last post
    Lucille

    Audit Reveals The Pentagon Doesn’t Know Where $6.5 Trillion Dollars Has Gone

    Thread Starter: Lucille

    A trillion here, a trillion there... http://www.activistpost.com/2016/08/audit-reveals-pentagon-doesnt-know-where-trillions-went.html They probably sent it to ISIS.

    Last Post By: goldenequity Today, 10:56 AM Go to last post
    Brian4Liberty

    Oakland: Black Metal Banned

    Thread Starter: Brian4Liberty

    'Nobody's a Nazi Here': Heavy Metal Fans Decry Cancellation of Band's Oakland Gig By Brendan Weber and Marianne Favro - Feb 18, 2017

    Last Post By: Raginfridus Today, 10:31 AM Go to last post
    donnay

    Look What’s Happened to Food Stamp Participation Under Trump

    Thread Starter: donnay

    http://truthfeed.com/look-whats-happened-to-food-stamp-participation-under-trump/93484/

    Last Post By: r3volution 3.0 Today, 10:10 AM Go to last post
    unknown

    Tucker Carlson: should the govt regulate Google?

    Thread Starter: unknown

    The bigger question, should government regulate any corporations in terms of their size, monopolies etc? If, for example, theyre engaged in "suppression" or coercion of competition, shouldn't that be addressed in the courts? He poses the question at 2:44

    Last Post By: timosman Today, 09:17 AM Go to last post
    Anti Federalist

    Trump folds again: Now US will NOT be pulling out of Paris Climate Accord

    Thread Starter: Anti Federalist

    One of the few things I could support him on. I give the $#@! up. Trump Administration Won’t Withdraw from Paris Climate Deal https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-administration-wont-withdraw-from-paris-climate-deal-1505593922 U.S. has stated it will ‘not renegotiate the Paris accord’ but will review its terms

    Last Post By: Anti Federalist Today, 07:02 AM Go to last post
  • Gold Chart

    [Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]
  • Silver Chart

  • Economics News & Discussion

    anaconda

    Bitcoin Cracks $5000

    Thread Starter: anaconda

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/cbovaird/2017/09/01/bitcoin-price-tops-5000-as-cryptocurrencies-march-higher/#6d8dc42a5a8e

    Last Post By: RonPaulIsGreat Today, 12:08 AM Go to last post
    presence

    The Litepresence Report on Cryptocurrency

    Thread Starter: presence

    CLICK HERE FOR HIGH RESOLUTION I've had multiple requests to create a unified location for my charts, predictions, forecasts, etc. so here it is. I'll update the thread whenever I'm trading. You can chat w/ me live at the btce trollbox. Best of luck my friends!

    Last Post By: FSP-Rebel Yesterday, 07:42 PM Go to last post
    kpitcher

    JP Morgan buys Bitcoin right after CEO says it's a bubble

    Thread Starter: kpitcher

    https://cointelegraph.com/news/chase-bank-buys-bitcoin-even-as-jamie-dimon-rejects-it Did he do it to deliberately lower the price for a bit?

    Last Post By: oyarde Yesterday, 05:11 PM Go to last post
    Krugminator2

    The Highest Income Earners Pay all State Income Taxes

    Thread Starter: Krugminator2

    The next time the stock market corrects 20-50%, the loss of capital gains revenue is going to really show how bad of shape blue states are in fiscally. It is interesting reading about Democratic lawmakers offer special tax breaks to the highest income earners so that they won't leave their states. ...

    Last Post By: Madison320 Yesterday, 04:08 PM Go to last post
    Anti Federalist

    97 Million Full-Time Workers Are Now Living Paycheck to Paycheck

    Thread Starter: Anti Federalist

    97 Million Full-Time Workers Are Now Living Paycheck to Paycheck http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/personalfinance/no-joke-97-million-full-time-workers-are-now-living-paycheck-to-paycheck/ar-AArffO6?li=BBnbfcN A staggering number of full-time workers are living paycheck to paycheck According to the latest survey, conducted on CareerBuilder's behalf by Harris Poll, 78% of U.S. full-time...

    Last Post By: angelatc 09-17-2017, 10:10 AM Go to last post
    Krugminator2

    Interesting Chart

    Thread Starter: Krugminator2

    Definitely has a feel that the market will correct 20-50% at some point during Trump's Presidency.

    Last Post By: katsung47 09-16-2017, 04:17 PM Go to last post
  • Bitcoin Chart

  • Living Free and Healthy

    timosman

    Hillary Clinton demonstrates 'alternate nostril breathing' during CNN interview

    Thread Starter: timosman

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/hillary-clinton-demonstrates-alternate-nostril-breathing-during-cnn-interview/article/2634354

    Last Post By: timosman Today, 01:08 PM Go to last post
    donnay

    Merck’s President Led A Biological Warfare Program Against Americans

    Thread Starter: donnay

    https://www.naturalblaze.com/2017/09/mercks-president-led-biological-warfare-program-americans.html

    Last Post By: Weston White Today, 01:50 AM Go to last post
    Created4

    Does the Claim that Only 1 in a Million are Harmed by Vaccines Have Any Merit?

    Thread Starter: Created4

    Marco Caceres of The Vaccine Reaction takes a look at the government and pharmaceutical claims that vaccines are safe, and that adverse reactions to vaccines are only about 1 in a million. Is this a claim based on any facts? Or is it mainly just a statement of belief? The point that is often missed in this debate is that there is one thing that is NOT disputed, and that everyone agrees...

    Last Post By: Weston White Today, 01:40 AM Go to last post
    Jim Casey

    The Truth About Meat and Dairy

    Thread Starter: Jim Casey

    These industries will go away very quickly once 3d printed meat becomes available. There's already major companies working on a 3d printed food startup. "If you kill innocent, defenseless animals everyday, just because you like the taste, then go around pretending you're antiwar, you're only fooling yourself." -Eric Dubay

    Last Post By: Warrior_of_Freedom Yesterday, 09:12 PM Go to last post
    Anti Federalist

    Vermont plan: Reward doctors and hospitals financially when patients are healthy

    Thread Starter: Anti Federalist

    After single payer failed, Vermont embarks on a big health care experiment https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/experimental-program-in-vermont-pays-doctors-to-keep-patients-healthy/2017/09/17/ddb47cfe-9320-11e7-aace-04b862b2b3f3_story.html?utm_term=.9663b506364a Doug Greenwood talks about his health with Anne-Marie Lajoie at Cold Hollow Family Practice in Enosburg Falls, Vt....

    Last Post By: specsaregood Yesterday, 02:28 PM Go to last post
    Carlybee

    statins

    Thread Starter: Carlybee

    My LDL was 106 and my doctor wants me to take statins. I've heard bad things about them and would rather try to reverse with diet. When I told him that he sent me a crappy email stating theres nothing that will reverse it but statin drugs. For all I know he's getting kickbacks from the drug companies because he tries to push so many on me.

    Last Post By: shakey1 Yesterday, 12:04 PM Go to last post
    specsaregood

    Salt water fishing setup

    Thread Starter: specsaregood

    I want to get DW a whole salt water rig and tackle setup for her bday and I'm a noob on the topic. If it was lake/pond fishing I'd be fine as I spent plenty of time fishing freshwater; but she likes to fish off piers or beaches in the ocean and catch fish "you can actually eat". If it matters, she likes fishing off piers best. Anyways, anybody with such experience want to recommend...

    Last Post By: Anti Federalist Yesterday, 03:38 AM Go to last post
  • Education & Thought Power

    Raginfridus

    Culture Wars?

    Thread Starter: Raginfridus

    My thoughts (done up quick): The Enlightenment was by no means a leap forward, only the closing of a philosophical Zero: where the end meets the beginning. The Enlightenment promised all the joys and terrors of civilization - life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness - if only our forefathers bowed to the State. Not since Enki-Satan visited the Mother of All in the salt marshes of E'din, had...

    Last Post By: PierzStyx Today, 12:48 PM Go to last post
    dude58677

    We all here want term limits and career politicians will never vote for them

    Thread Starter: dude58677

    What we can do is make career politicians unmarketable. We do that by electing nonpoliticians to office. This revolutionary moment happened on November 9. You might not agree with Donald Trump on a lot of issues and I don't when it comes to foreign policy(although he kept some domestic promises through executive order) but someone had to get the ball rolling to inspire others to follow his path....

    Last Post By: specsaregood Today, 11:46 AM Go to last post
    The Rebel Poet

    How To Spot a Ringer

    Thread Starter: The Rebel Poet

    Many political candidates sound unusually libertarianish on the campaign trail. Tax breaks for middle class families and not sending your kids to war do make good sound bites. But how do we sort the sheep from the goats? If you didn't fall for Clinton, Bush, Obama or Trump, tell us how you knew they weren't going to bring the troops home, shrink the bureaucracy etc. So we can replicate your...

    Last Post By: wizardwatson Today, 11:37 AM Go to last post
    uncharted

    Should Libertarians support anarcho-capitalism?

    Thread Starter: uncharted

    What is your stance?

    Last Post By: otherone Today, 08:33 AM Go to last post
    unknown

    Militia under Federal control via Article 1 Section 8?

    Thread Starter: unknown

    "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia...

    Last Post By: unknown Today, 12:23 AM Go to last post
    Raginfridus

    Project VENONA: Comintern Goes Beyond Alger Hiss

    Thread Starter: Raginfridus

    McCarthy was lampooned and berated for exposing ACTUAL Soviet operatives, which Comintern and the Venona papers can all verify. I've known Yale In China made then-to-be Chairman Mao, and that FDR's own sanctions against Japan forced her hand, but here's an abstract which has got me reading deeper into the Pacific War: War Responsibility of the CCP, USSR, and FDR Mishima's conjecture...

    Last Post By: goldenequity Yesterday, 10:39 PM Go to last post
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