• State of the Liberty movement

    The national campaigns aren't helping at the moment. They won't let us win, so education is the best we could get from national campaigns and Ron Paul really showed the power of that, surveys on this forum confirmed it. Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul, not even a McAfee, he won't get the word out, maybe a bastardized compromise that may help us in future coalitions but could hurt us too.

    Grassroots is where it is at for feeding the tree of Liberty, it will blossom on its own given enough food. Given the timeline this nation and other nations are on, we don't have much hope of straightening course from the helm, we need to be bracing for impact individually and as a result hopefully collectively. We need to feed the tree of Liberty in our own lives, with our own families, neighbors and yes, local politics.

    If we assume this bad boy is going to come crashing down from the top, those who best stand to benefit will be those ready for it at the bottom. As their national leaders fail them, which is ever so obvious, the people will be looking for answers locally, which is where we stand to benefit. Those of us who correctly witness the situation we are in to our families, neighbors and communities will be looked on prophetically as Ron Paul was, as it comes to pass. Be yourself, campaign individually as we know we all do, maybe take a look at a community board seat, county position or even state if one were ambitious like Ron, Rand, Amash and Masie. Local politics WILL matter when national politics fails.


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    Comments 23 Comments
    1. jllundqu's Avatar
      jllundqu -
      Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
      The national campaigns aren't helping at the moment. They won't let us win, so education is the best we could get from national campaigns and Ron Paul really showed the power of that, surveys on this forum confirmed it. Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul, not even a McAfee, he won't get the word out, maybe a bastardized compromise that may help us in future coalitions but could hurt us too.

      Grassroots is where it is at for feeding the tree of Liberty, it will blossom on its own given enough food. Given the timeline this nation and other nations are on, we don't have much hope of straightening course from the helm, we need to be bracing for impact individually and as a result hopefully collectively. We need to feed the tree of Liberty in our own lives, with our own families, neighbors and yes, local politics.

      If we assume this bad boy is going to come crashing down from the top, those who best stand to benefit will be those ready for it at the bottom. As their national leaders fail them, which is ever so obvious, the people will be looking for answers locally which is where we stand to benefit. Those of us who correctly witness the situation we are in to our families, neighbors and communities will be looked on prophetically as Ron Paul was as it comes to pass. Be yourself, campaign individually as we know we all do, maybe take a look at a community board seat, county position or even state if one where ambitious like Ron, Rand, Amash and Masie. Local politics WILL matter when national politics fails.
      Agreed. Local is where it's at. THings will continue to devolve until either a war, economic collapse, attack on the grid, or some combo leave people cutoff from national concerns... local communities, churches, and town/city officials will be who to go to... Get in at the local level. Get to know your neighbors. This country is due for some serious reckoning in the coming years.
    1. acptulsa's Avatar
      acptulsa -
      Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
      The national campaigns aren't helping at the moment. They won't let us win, so education is the best we could get from national campaigns and Ron Paul really showed the power of that, surveys on this forum confirmed it. Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul, not even a McAfee, he won't get the word out, maybe a bastardized compromise that may help us in future coalitions but could hurt us too.
      The most important bit of education we could do at this point, in my opinion, would be to educate people about the Twelfth Amendment. By doing just enough to win over disaffected Sanders voters, without doing enough to offend those mainstream Republicans who can't stomach the orange clown, Johnson is potentially doing just what it takes to make people take a serious interest in the Twelfth Amendment.

      That's not something you spark interest in by not running to win a significant portion of the vote. That's something you spark interest in by stealing enough votes from both major parties to get them below fifty percent apiece.
    1. phill4paul's Avatar
      phill4paul -
      <<<insert applause gif>>>

      +rep. The Fed/Gov is so $#@!ed it's not possible to right it. In the 10 yrs. I've been on this forum we've managed to help get perhaps a handful of liberty representatives. We don't have another 100 yrs. before it comes crashing down. Beans, bullion, bullets and local ballots.
    1. osan's Avatar
      osan -
      Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
      The national campaigns aren't helping at the moment. They won't let us win, so education is the best we could get from national campaigns and Ron Paul really showed the power of that, surveys on this forum confirmed it. Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul, not even a McAfee, he won't get the word out, maybe a bastardized compromise that may help us in future coalitions but could hurt us too.

      Grassroots is where it is at for feeding the tree of Liberty, it will blossom on its own given enough food. Given the timeline this nation and other nations are on, we don't have much hope of straightening course from the helm, we need to be bracing for impact individually and as a result hopefully collectively. We need to feed the tree of Liberty in our own lives, with our own families, neighbors and yes, local politics.

      If we assume this bad boy is going to come crashing down from the top, those who best stand to benefit will be those ready for it at the bottom. As their national leaders fail them, which is ever so obvious, the people will be looking for answers locally, which is where we stand to benefit. Those of us who correctly witness the situation we are in to our families, neighbors and communities will be looked on prophetically as Ron Paul was, as it comes to pass. Be yourself, campaign individually as we know we all do, maybe take a look at a community board seat, county position or even state if one were ambitious like Ron, Rand, Amash and Masie. Local politics WILL matter when national politics fails.

      Even if a great messiah rose to the Seat, so what? Without people who are liberty literate and wanton of that state, freedom has no chance. As of this minute, it has no chance. That may change, and I sincerely hope it does. So yeah, education is key.
    1. bunklocoempire's Avatar
      bunklocoempire -
      Agreed. + rep OP island neighbor, who I still have yet to meet.

      Know your neighbors, anticipate their strengths & weaknesses.

      The more that people's resources are squeezed, the more things become obvious locally, and the better to capitalize.

      Local politics matters greatly, right now.

      Witness Jen Ruggles, emerging to challenge Danny Paleka for Puna district county council seat. She is capitalizing on the local corruption brought to light (again). The tighter things get, the more people pay attention. Hawaii IS corruption, has been for a long time, so what changed? The peasant's conditions, as far as I can tell. Some, who are not connected to power, are not so willing to look the other way these days.

      Does Jen have it all together? No way. She is not yet consistent with the concept of "consent" (services we can't opt out of), but she has previously mentioned peace, and that tells me she may be open to learning the peace benefits of aloha, rather than always going to government force.

      This is painful to watch, but it's Puna's current county council political reality. I offer it simply as an incentive to explore your own local area, to see what you're up against, and to think about a tailored message for your neighbors. Some of the local powers that be, have become incredibly lazy with their messaging (Paleka), and have left themselves vulnerable. Tell me there isn't opportunity, after listening to this disjointed candidate "forum". lol



      Do you smell the fear wafting from Danny? I sure do. If he was truly "pono for Puna", he'd wouldn't know fear. His "pono" moniker (righteousness, righteous idea) isn't consistent with his use of government force to implement his agenda. I'll be attempting to remind locals about the inconsistencies of the local rulers, every time those rulers make the mistake of whipping out "aloha" to promote government force. They whip it out EVERY time.

      Interesting times, a spooked herd, some spooked rulers (leaders are rare), and more and more opportunity every passing day. SWOOP! SWOOP!
    1. Ronin Truth's Avatar
      Ronin Truth -
      What about the Liberty of the State movement?
    1. CPUd's Avatar
      CPUd -
    1. Athan's Avatar
      Athan -
      Usually when a movement's steam is running out, it is because it is no longer addressing the needs it should be. In short, the liberty movement has allowed itself to stagnate while "alt-right" have taken our ideas of banks, foreign policy, monetary policies, and etc and are running with them by picking up and talking about points we either refuse to address, to controversial for us to break down, or feel to unimportant to our ideals.

      They aren't afraid of being edgy, controversial, and aggressive. This is why I myself barely come to ronpaulforums for news anymore. This and Daily Paul used to be THEE place for news shills wanted to keep from going public.
    1. MattRay's Avatar
      MattRay -
      I've been concerned about this since Dr. Paul hasn't been in the spotlight as much the last few years. His message was so compelling, so well articulated and with so much credibility, particularly on monetrary policy/economics, the drug war and foreign policy, I don't know who else can take the liberty movement to the next level. I do view this year as a golden opportunity, but Weld has the potential to screw it up and it can be tough to overlook Johnson on religious liberty and discrimination. But he's at least started promoting the NAP a bit and he's a big step in the right direction compared to the GOP, Dems, Trump ect. on foreign policy/intervention, free markets, the drug war, taxes, term limits ect. But I hope some newcomers/converts recognize the difference between libertarianism and The Libertarian Party. Ron Paul's campaigns were so great because they coincided with some excellent books he authored, which thankfully included some suggested reading as well so I was able to discover great books like Rothbard's America's Great Depression for instance and learn about the Austrian Business Cycle theory. Sadly, I doubt we'll be seeing the ABCT from Johnson and this certainly isn't inspiring time in the liberty movement like 2007-2012 nor is this a campaign about education like Dr. Paul's 3 campaigns, but it remains a good opportunity so I'm excited about that nonetheless. I have to say that I disagree about McAfee too. I'm happy he didn't get the nomination because he would have done us no favors expanding the movement and just added to the misconception that libertarians are weird, crazy ect. Peteresen definitely had his strengths, particularly a better understanding of libertarianism than Johnson(except for his views on the NAP) and the right idea reaching out to conservatives, though I wasn't sure how many were going to take him seriously considering he looks like a kid and has never held any political office. On the bright side, at least Gary is doing one thing Austin wouldn't, which is promote the NAP. Really, the best hope for the future is Amash as far as I can see. He really is excellent, imo and a breath of fresh air, but he's not that well known yet.
    1. afwjam's Avatar
      afwjam -
      Johnson was and is the weakest Libertarian because he just does not "get it", he does not pull the whole picture together with Liberty being the answer. McAfee got it, Petersen got it, Ron for sure got it. Johnson and his socially liberal, fiscally conservative best of the democrats and republicans campaign won't do us any favors unless we think Bernie supporters are going to learn real Liberty principles from him(they won't) and remain a part of a future coalition. I can only dream, but McAfee would be making waves right now dropping truth bombs, some might call it crazy, I call it common sense. knowing that he is not educated in Libertarian scholars, I was even more impressed with McAfee because he got it on a gut level, making the right calls on principles and values. He was a breath of fresh air during the debates, fun yet right, Johnson is a philosophical mess and completely uninspiring.
    1. jkob's Avatar
      jkob -
      we'll have a better understanding of where we're at after these coming primaries

      still hoping to put John McCain into retirement
    1. afwjam's Avatar
      afwjam -
      Quote Originally Posted by jkob View Post
      we'll have a better understanding of where we're at after these coming primaries

      still hoping to put John McCain into retirement
      Looks like there are a couple glimmers of hope, a senate seat and a couple house seats would be nice.
    1. Natural Citizen's Avatar
      Natural Citizen -
      Quote Originally Posted by Athan View Post
      Usually when a movement's steam is running out, it is because it is no longer addressing the needs it should be. In short, the liberty movement has allowed itself to stagnate while "alt-right" have taken our ideas of banks, foreign policy, monetary policies, and etc and are running with them by picking up and talking about points we either refuse to address, to controversial for us to break down, or feel to unimportant to our ideals.

      They aren't afraid of being edgy, controversial, and aggressive. This is why I myself barely come to ronpaulforums for news anymore. This and Daily Paul used to be THEE place for news shills wanted to keep from going public.
      Well. I Don't know. What do you think we should do? I mean, screw it, I'm open to ideas. I don't even mind starting over again. Heck, that might even be the better plan.

      I'm of the view that we'd do better to get back to the more meaningful fundamental things. That's just me talking, though. Some may and likely will disagree.
    1. ChristianAnarchist's Avatar
      ChristianAnarchist -
      The "Liberty Movement" as I see it has pretty much gone underground.&nbsp; Almost everyone I talk to wants something along the lines of true liberty but they are ignorant as to what liberty is. When explained in simple terms most agree that it's what they desire but then the mind-fuk conditioning by the media comes in and they are hung up on things like roads, gun control, and their favorite welfare program (social or military).

      TPTB have full control of the brain washing apparatus and it's hard to break that conditioning...
    1. MattRay's Avatar
      MattRay -
      Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
      Johnson was and is the weakest Libertarian because he just does not "get it", he does not pull the whole picture together with Liberty being the answer. McAfee got it, Petersen got it, Ron for sure got it. Johnson and his socially liberal, fiscally conservative best of the democrats and republicans campaign won't do us any favors unless we think Bernie supporters are going to learn real Liberty principles from him(they won't) and remain a part of a future coalition. I can only dream, but McAfee would be making waves right now dropping truth bombs, some might call it crazy, I call it common sense. knowing that he is not educated in Libertarian scholars, I was even more impressed with McAfee because he got it on a gut level, making the right calls on principles and values. He was a breath of fresh air during the debates, fun yet right, Johnson is a philosophical mess and completely uninspiring.
      There's no doubt McAfee is better philosophically and I would have definitely supported him had he been the nominee, but given all of the stuff out there about him(unrelated to his ideology), I don't know how many would have even given him a fair chance. The media basically refuses to discuss ideology and loves the tabloid type stuff. I'm not even talking about people's reactions to his ideas, I worry about people even listening to the ideas and giving them a fair chance. It's hard enough to get people to listen to any principles in politics, but in particular, I worried McAfee had too much baggage for people who aren't already libertarians to get past. As it is, I wish Johnson wasn't as eccentric as he was and certainly wish we didn't have things like the guy stripping at the LP convention. I wish more followed Ron Paul's example, including presentation. Maybe I'm too cynical, but once Rand's campaign failed to gain traction, I've had very low expectations for the liberty movement in this election. Basically, I resigned myself to just hoping for a much better showing in the election to build on so the next Ron Paul or even Harry Browne isn't completely ignored like in '88 or '96 and 2000 and hopefully a crack in the armor of the one party monopoly. The one real positive I see with Trump's campaign is that I think he's actually helping with that, as is the cynicism caused by a candidate as terrible as Hillary being forced on the public.
    1. osan's Avatar
      osan -
      Quote Originally Posted by MattRay View Post
      I've been concerned about this since Dr. Paul hasn't been in the spotlight as much the last few years. His message was so compelling, so well articulated and with so much credibility, particularly on monetrary policy/economics, the drug war and foreign policy, I don't know who else can take the liberty movement to the next level. I do view this year as a golden opportunity, but Weld has the potential to screw it up and it can be tough to overlook Johnson on religious liberty and discrimination. But he's at least started promoting the NAP a bit and he's a big step in the right direction compared to the GOP, Dems, Trump ect. on foreign policy/intervention, free markets, the drug war, taxes, term limits ect. But I hope some newcomers/converts recognize the difference between libertarianism and The Libertarian Party. Ron Paul's campaigns were so great because they coincided with some excellent books he authored, which thankfully included some suggested reading as well so I was able to discover great books like Rothbard's America's Great Depression for instance and learn about the Austrian Business Cycle theory. Sadly, I doubt we'll be seeing the ABCT from Johnson and this certainly isn't inspiring time in the liberty movement like 2007-2012 nor is this a campaign about education like Dr. Paul's 3 campaigns, but it remains a good opportunity so I'm excited about that nonetheless. I have to say that I disagree about McAfee too. I'm happy he didn't get the nomination because he would have done us no favors expanding the movement and just added to the misconception that libertarians are weird, crazy ect. Peteresen definitely had his strengths, particularly a better understanding of libertarianism than Johnson(except for his views on the NAP) and the right idea reaching out to conservatives, though I wasn't sure how many were going to take him seriously considering he looks like a kid and has never held any political office. On the bright side, at least Gary is doing one thing Austin wouldn't, which is promote the NAP. Really, the best hope for the future is Amash as far as I can see. He really is excellent, imo and a breath of fresh air, but he's not that well known yet.
      The sooner the good doctor drops dead, the happier the elite shall be.

      That is why we all have to become something similar in terms of beacons of truth and examples to those around us. I do what I can daily, but one man can do only so much, even if he is Ron Paul.

      One of my methods is to open carry everywhere I go. I even go to the bank armed. Other than two incidents, the response of my fellow West Virginians has been overwhelmingly positive. People need to see "liberty behavior" and not just hear the words. I can barely overemphasize how important this is. If you live in a hell hole like NY/NJ/CA/IL/HI/OH/RI/MA/CT, wear an empty holster and do it defiantly. If the people around you freak out, tough $#@!. If the cops give you $#@!, fear not. This is a comparatively small price to pay, IMO.

      The land is in grave jeopardy. Do what you can before it is too late.
    1. Peace&Freedom's Avatar
      Peace&Freedom -
      I've suggested three basic approaches going forward to advance liberty, both nationally and locally:

      1) Run candidates with a Ron Paul like mind, and a William Wallace like alpha vibe. Much of the public has to be reached by means other than reason, as they are turned off by the 'brainiac' form of libertarianism we usually lead with. A charismatic, libertarian populist candidate who presents as a rousing "libertarian of the heart," while retaining the core liberty ideas, can do better at reaching the masses. McAfee was one possibility, though he had an iffy background with the law and lack of preparation that limited his appeal. Other examples may include Kurt Russell, Adam Kokesh, Alex Jones, etc.

      2) Run liberty candidates who will also engage the voting blocs needed to build winning coalitions, and will aggressively fight the establishment barriers to liberty. This is the fundamental lesson learned from the last three election cycles, and cannot be sidestepped. A candidate who only satisfies the 5% liberty core, or can even grow the base towards 10% as Ron Paul did, does not get us to the 51% needed to win primaries and elections. If running within the GOP universe the candidates need to appeal to socons, tea partiers, or disaffected anti-establishment dynamics of the party. That means speaking to their issues and concerns from a liberty perspective, not just barking our issues at them. The candidates also need to be able to figure out how to "disable the tractor beam" of the media and leadership that constantly tries to marginalize liberty, or PC shame it into conformity.

      3) Pursue a Bi-partisan Open Seat Strategy (BOSS) to get more liberty candidates elected locally. Most seats are in areas that are not competitive for the purposes of liberty candidates winning the election, that is, they are dominated by GOP or Dem hacks who win with above 55+% of the vote. Recognizing that 95% of seats are gerrymandered to support Republican or Democrat (statist) incumbents, we should focus instead on running in a primary or special election where the incumbent is retiring, passed away, or removed by scandal. Run on a liberty platform to win the nomination of the dominant party in the district or area (if it's a deeply Democratic district, run a Ron Paul Democrat, or if Republican, run a Ron Paul Republican).

      Field for suitable candidates using the local CFL/RP/liberty meetups and mailing lists, or from the local LP. Upon winning the primary for the vacated seat, the liberty candidate then has the inside track to win the election. An example of how this results in victory is the Bentivolio case in Michigan (a RP supporter who won a house seat by being the only GOP candidate in the primary when the incumbent Republican retired). The BOSS approach should thus create higher percentage opportunities for liberty people to win seats, regardless of which major party way the district rolls.
    1. Natural Citizen's Avatar
      Natural Citizen -
      Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
      The "Liberty Movement" as I see it has pretty much gone underground.&nbsp; Almost everyone I talk to wants something along the lines of true liberty but they are ignorant as to what liberty is. When explained in simple terms most agree that it's what they desire but then the mind-fuk conditioning by the media comes in and they are hung up on things like roads, gun control, and their favorite welfare program (social or military).

      TPTB have full control of the brain washing apparatus and it's hard to break that conditioning...
      I think something that is missing is a common intention within the Liberty movement. It's a critical gap. And likely a decisive gap in terms of outcome.
    1. MattRay's Avatar
      MattRay -
      Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
      The sooner the good doctor drops dead, the happier the elite shall be.

      That is why we all have to become something similar in terms of beacons of truth and examples to those around us. I do what I can daily, but one man can do only so much, even if he is Ron Paul.

      One of my methods is to open carry everywhere I go. I even go to the bank armed. Other than two incidents, the response of my fellow West Virginians has been overwhelmingly positive. People need to see "liberty behavior" and not just hear the words. I can barely overemphasize how important this is. If you live in a hell hole like NY/NJ/CA/IL/HI/OH/RI/MA/CT, wear an empty holster and do it defiantly. If the people around you freak out, tough $#@!. If the cops give you $#@!, fear not. This is a comparatively small price to pay, IMO.

      The land is in grave jeopardy. Do what you can before it is too late.
      Fortunately, Ron Paul is still active and seems to be in great health for an 80 year old.

      Unfortunately, I live in New York, where the second amendment has been consistently violated. My father who has had virtually no run ins with LE throughout his six and a half decades wasn't even able to get a permit in NYC. Only when we moved to Long Island was he able to, and only able to go to and from the range. While we all know what the purpose of the 2nd amendment is, on a side note, an incident that showed the insanity of NY's gun laws is when 2 men tried to carjack him, but fortunately he happened to be coming from the range so he had his .44 Colt Anaconda on him. If he had been coming from anywhere else, though, who knows what would have happened? And NY's oppressive, unconstitutional gun laws would have been to blame. The other side of the spectrum is what I saw living in East New York, Brooklyn, and to a lesser extent, Bed-Stuy. I can think of one guy in particular on my block who loved waving around his AK-47, and obviously, this guy didn't have this legally. On my old block in East NY, gun shots were pretty much the norm when the sun started to set a bit in the summer, around 8-9 PM and later or with it pitch black in the winter, sometimes during earlier evening, and walking around those streets unarmed with gun shots going off feels like you're "naked." New York's gun laws are downright horrible. Of course, we also had the unconstitutional stop and frisk too, and not just for minorities either. I use to get it in Brooklyn primarily because I was a white guy in a black neighborhood, even just walking 3 blocks to the subway during the middle of the day, or standing 10 feet from my building smoking a cigarette, "we're looking for someone matching your description" ect. My experience in NYC, especially seeing my father and uncle trying to get work in carpentry and construction showed me how awful, oppressive and corrupt our unions are even before I became a libertarian. Man, does New York badly need the liberty movement.

      I try to do my part, particularly talking to people about the Fed and how it's the biggest problem we have and the cause or related to virtually every other problem. How our money is worthless paper, counterfeit ect. I try to explain the ABCT when I can, or point out how the New Deal was an unprecedented failure compared to other depressions and how the welfare state and FDR's legacy are built on a myth. How we don't have anything close to a free market and haven't had a limited government president since Coolidge. I've tried to use analogies for the government's behavior and before telling them I'm referring to the Federal Government, I get people thinking I'm referring to the mafia or something. I try to remind people taxation is extortion and I encourage people to work off the books.

      I do like your idea about the empty holster. As you know, I could never get away with open carry here, but I'm going to consider that.
    1. osan's Avatar
      osan -
      Quote Originally Posted by MattRay View Post
      Fortunately, Ron Paul is still active and seems to be in great health for an 80 year old.

      Unfortunately, I live in New York, where the second amendment has been consistently violated. My father who has had virtually no run ins with LE throughout his six and a half decades wasn't even able to get a permit in NYC. Only when we moved to Long Island was he able to, and only able to go to and from the range. While we all know what the purpose of the 2nd amendment is, on a side note, an incident that showed the insanity of NY's gun laws is when 2 men tried to carjack him, but fortunately he happened to be coming from the range so he had his .44 Colt Anaconda on him. If he had been coming from anywhere else, though, who knows what would have happened? And NY's oppressive, unconstitutional gun laws would have been to blame. The other side of the spectrum is what I saw living in East New York, Brooklyn, and to a lesser extent, Bed-Stuy. I can think of one guy in particular on my block who loved waving around his AK-47, and obviously, this guy didn't have this legally. On my old block in East NY, gun shots were pretty much the norm when the sun started to set a bit in the summer, around 8-9 PM and later or with it pitch black in the winter, sometimes during earlier evening, and walking around those streets unarmed with gun shots going off feels like you're "naked." New York's gun laws are downright horrible. Of course, we also had the unconstitutional stop and frisk too, and not just for minorities either. I use to get it in Brooklyn primarily because I was a white guy in a black neighborhood, even just walking 3 blocks to the subway during the middle of the day, or standing 10 feet from my building smoking a cigarette, "we're looking for someone matching your description" ect. My experience in NYC, especially seeing my father and uncle trying to get work in carpentry and construction showed me how awful, oppressive and corrupt our unions are even before I became a libertarian. Man, does New York badly need the liberty movement.

      I try to do my part, particularly talking to people about the Fed and how it's the biggest problem we have and the cause or related to virtually every other problem. How our money is worthless paper, counterfeit ect. I try to explain the ABCT when I can, or point out how the New Deal was an unprecedented failure compared to other depressions and how the welfare state and FDR's legacy are built on a myth. How we don't have anything close to a free market and haven't had a limited government president since Coolidge. I've tried to use analogies for the government's behavior and before telling them I'm referring to the Federal Government, I get people thinking I'm referring to the mafia or something. I try to remind people taxation is extortion and I encourage people to work off the books.

      I do like your idea about the empty holster. As you know, I could never get away with open carry here, but I'm going to consider that.
      I escaped my home town (NYC) in 1985. It has gotten progressively worse every year since.

      Every time I'm in the city, I wear an empty holster. Last time was on 9/11/10. There were thousands of cops everywhere and I was pretty sure I was going to go to jail that day. To my utter amazement, not one cop said a word to me about it. The only response I got was from a Puerto Rican woman on the subway who looked like she was about to start screaming as she attempted to press her own body through the wall of the car in her frantic desire to escape the presence of the Eville Holster (tm).

      Oddly, I went to the Starbuck's on Spring St. with my friend Jake and to my wild amazement there was another guy there with an empty shoulder-rig. I actually got up from our table and walked over to make sure I was seeing what I thought I was seeing. I said nothing to him and he apparently took no notice of me. It was very strange... in a nice sort of way.

      All I can say is be a little careful. You know how city cops can be. Corrupt as the day is long at the poles and at times touchy. So use some discretion. Otherwise, I say have at it.

      Did you know that 30 years ago residents of Suffolk and/or Nassau counties could carry with no permits? Used to work at Princeton Skate & Ski on Northern Blvd (now gone) and people used to some in with pistols on their hips often.

      Not no mo'.


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    Pentagon Expands 'Terror War' To Africa: Where Is Congress?

    Thread Starter: Brian4Liberty

    Pentagon Expands 'Terror War' To Africa: Where Is Congress?

    Last Post By: AZJoe 12-15-2017, 07:34 AM Go to last post
  • General News & Politics

    enhanced_deficit

    USA Today Editorial Board Calls Trump Unfit To Clean Obama’s Toilets

    Thread Starter: enhanced_deficit

    This is probably unprecedented critique of a sitting POTUS who is also commander in chief of wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria: 12/13/2017 02:17 am ET USA Today Editorial Board Calls Trump Unfit To Clean Obama’s Toilets In Scathing Editorial By Rebecca Shapiro USA Today published a brutal editorial from its editorial board Tuesday after President Donald Trump...

    Last Post By: TheCount Today, 04:05 AM Go to last post
    Brian4Liberty

    Peter Strzok: Partisan FBI infiltrator

    Thread Starter: Brian4Liberty

    It seems that some government employees have taken their partisanship to extremes, such that it would be impossible for them to fulfill their job requirement of being unbiased. Might as well consider this guy to have been a member of the Hillary campaign. Mueller aide fired for anti-Trump texts now facing review for role in Clinton email probe

    Last Post By: Swordsmyth Today, 02:29 AM Go to last post
    Anti Federalist

    The driverless revolution may exact a political price

    Thread Starter: Anti Federalist

    Just take your UBI card and go away, OK? Keep in mind, UBI, in the cashless society, will not purchase government disapproved items. Everything from a Big Mac to a Beretta will be blocked. Enjoy your future, slaves.

    Last Post By: Intoxiklown Today, 02:03 AM Go to last post
    Swordsmyth

    New Sexual Assault Claims On Deck: "The House Is Going To Be Rocked In The Coming 72 Hours"

    Thread Starter: Swordsmyth

    The Daily Caller'sLuke Rosiak says that within 72 hours, "The House Is Going To Be Rocked" with a new bombshell which he says "will see the resignation of more than a dozen House members over harassment and secret settlements, and soon." Rosiak, who has earned a large following as one of the leading journalists cataloging the Awan brothers scandal, does not typically engage in hyperbole...

    Last Post By: Swordsmyth Today, 01:53 AM Go to last post
    Swordsmyth

    Trump Nominates LGBT Activist to Head EEOC — Which Shouldn’t Even Exist

    Thread Starter: Swordsmyth

    In yet another swamp victory, the Trump administration has decided to re-nominate a radical LGBT activist and Obama-era holdover for commissioner of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) — a bureaucracy that shouldn’t even exist. Lesbian Chai Feldblum has been serving in the post since 2010, having been made EEOC head without Senate approval, via an Obama recess appointment....

    Last Post By: Anti Federalist Today, 01:30 AM Go to last post
    Brian4Liberty

    Rubio is a "no" on tax plan without increased welfare

    Thread Starter: Brian4Liberty

    Rubio to vote against GOP tax bill unless tax credit for working poor is expanded Rubio and Lee have already demanded and received a doubling of the child tax credit from $1000 to $2000 per child. The issue now appears to be the refundabilty of the "credit". Bottom line: With a fully refundable tax credit, a parent or family who pay no income taxes will receive a $2000 payment per child...

    Last Post By: Brian4Liberty Today, 12:24 AM Go to last post
    dannno

    Chris Matthews Is Next on the Chopping Block

    Thread Starter: dannno

    NBC Made Payment To Staffer After Sexual Harassment Claim Against Chris Matthews http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/16/nbc-made-payment-to-staffer-after-sexual-harassment-claim-against-chris-matthews/

    Last Post By: Weston White Today, 12:07 AM Go to last post
    johnwk

    President Trump’s tax plan keeps the socialist communist progressive income tax alive

    Thread Starter: johnwk

    . Well, now that the Republican tax reform is finalized on paper, we see that it not only keeps the socialist, communist, progressive income tax alive, but President Trump has already given thumbs up to this Washington Sewer Rat’s method of taxation which does nothing to remove the iron fist of our federal government from the necks of America’s hard working productive citizens and business...

    Last Post By: Madison320 Yesterday, 08:51 PM Go to last post
    katsung47

    How can they win the Tax Reform bill?

    Thread Starter: katsung47

    That's the way how the Feds(FBI) rule this country. Many other politicians committed similar sex crimes. Moore unfortunately is pick up as the scapegoat to intimidate others, be obedient or otherwise be Moore likewise. The purpose is for the passing of coming new law, tax reform bill. Trump is the candidate of the Feds. So he exempted from such accusations.

    Last Post By: katsung47 Yesterday, 07:03 PM Go to last post
    Swordsmyth

    Nevada governor and wife separating, plan to divorce

    Thread Starter: Swordsmyth

    Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval says he and his wife, Kathleen, have decided to separate and plan to divorce after 27 years of marriage.The two-term Republican said in a statement released Friday that "demands of public life are hard on a marriage and ours has been affected in a way neither of us had envisioned or expected." More at:...

    Last Post By: phill4paul Yesterday, 04:46 PM Go to last post
  • Gold Chart

    [Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]
  • Silver Chart

  • Economics News & Discussion

    anaconda

    Bitcoin Cracks $5000

    Thread Starter: anaconda

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/cbovaird/2017/09/01/bitcoin-price-tops-5000-as-cryptocurrencies-march-higher/#6d8dc42a5a8e

    Last Post By: anaconda Today, 01:52 AM Go to last post
    DGambler

    What coins are you looking at in 2018?

    Thread Starter: DGambler

    Been a while since I played in the Crypto markets and am looking to get back in... What coins are folks looking at over the next 12 months? XRP or IOTA any good? Any others I should research?

    Last Post By: kpitcher Yesterday, 11:38 PM Go to last post
    Firestarter

    BlackRock, Vanguard, State Street own the US

    Thread Starter: Firestarter

    When investigating the 1 October Las Vegas “mass shooting” I found out about Vanguard and Fidelity (FMR). I postponed starting a thread on this, because there were some other things I wanted to do first. First I looked at the major shareholders in Live Nation Entertainment Inc, which includes Vanguard (several times) and Fidelity:...

    Last Post By: devil21 Yesterday, 09:26 PM Go to last post
    Zippyjuan

    North Korea Going After Bitcoins

    Thread Starter: Zippyjuan

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42378638

    Last Post By: Zippyjuan Yesterday, 05:03 PM Go to last post
    euphemia

    Ten Things Trump Can Do To Cut Waste

    Thread Starter: euphemia

    Very interesting, and practical article, I thought. Donald J. Trump won the presidency by giving real hope to millions of voters that their situation could improve. Now he and Congress have a chance to take action and deliver real results. One way to encourage economic growth is to stop wasting taxpayer dollars on activities that do nothing to create wealth. Linkification

    Last Post By: Occam's Banana Yesterday, 04:59 PM Go to last post
    timosman

    I-66 express lanes debut with $34.50 toll, among the highest in U.S.

    Thread Starter: timosman

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/i-66-express-lanes-debut-with-3450-toll-among-the-highest-in-us/2017/12/04/ad60ce38-d900-11e7-a841-2066faf731ef_story.html

    Last Post By: LibForestPaul 12-15-2017, 08:52 PM Go to last post
  • Bitcoin Chart

  • Living Free and Healthy

    Intoxiklown

    Widely used drug, Metformin, showing promising treatments and prevention of many ailments

    Thread Starter: Intoxiklown

    I'm posting this here as both a way to get people who may benefit from Metformin "in the know" about it, as well as the fact that I thought this crowd would appreciate this apparent miracle drug is derived from an herb long used in natural medicine. It's literally a symbiosis of science and nature in a good way. And Metformin is CHEAPPPP! Metformin is a pharmaceutical processed from the herb...

    Last Post By: Intoxiklown Yesterday, 08:21 PM Go to last post
    DamianTV

    Don't Keep Cellphones Next To Your Body, California Health Department Warns

    Thread Starter: DamianTV

    https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/12/15/2247201/dont-keep-cellphones-next-to-your-body-california-health-department-warns References on Slashdot Link. --- Welcome to Kalifornia, where talking bad about the "elected" officials are known to cause cancer in laboratory animals.

    Last Post By: Danke Yesterday, 07:08 PM Go to last post
    DamianTV

    2 Drops Of Spilled Mercury Destroyed This Scientist's Brain - Chemistry Video

    Thread Starter: DamianTV

    Last Post By: heavenlyboy34 Yesterday, 06:17 PM Go to last post
    donnay

    How Much Do You Really Know About Vaccine Safety?

    Thread Starter: donnay

    How Much Do You Really Know About Vaccine Safety? By Dr. Mercola The video above features a lecture by Del Bigtree,1 an Emmy award-winning producer of "The Doctors" talk show for six years, and one of the producers of the documentary "Vaxxed." I actually attended and saw the talk he gave during the 2017 "Truth About Cancer Live" event in Orlando, Florida, where I was also speaking. ...

    Last Post By: donnay Yesterday, 03:40 PM Go to last post
    donnay

    How Dangerous Is Fluoride To Your Health?

    Thread Starter: donnay

    How Dangerous Is Fluoride To Your Health? Fluorine is an element. It is a gas, never occurring in its free state. In microscopic amounts complexed with other minerals, it is often listed as a trace mineral, a nutrient for human nutrition. The fluoride added to 90% of drinking water is hydrofluoric acid which is a compound of fluorine that is a chemical byproduct of aluminum, steel,...

    Last Post By: Firestarter Yesterday, 12:06 PM Go to last post
    1stvermont

    Southern Agrarians- did America Lose its Liberty When it Lost its Agrarian Roots?

    Thread Starter: 1stvermont

    ​I did this thread in the history section but i think it better fits here. Southern Agrarians and Northern Industrialists “White folks you can have your automobiles, paved streets and lights. You can have your buses, and street cars, and hot pavement and tall buildings cause I aint got no use for em no way. I tell you what I do want--I want my old cotton bed and the moonlight shining...

    Last Post By: oyarde 12-15-2017, 10:39 PM Go to last post
    Swordsmyth

    Major Cause of Dementia Discovered

    Thread Starter: Swordsmyth

    An international team of scientists have confirmed the discovery of a major cause of dementia, with important implications for possible treatment and diagnosis. Professor Garth Cooper from The University of Manchester, who leads the Manchester team, says the build-up of urea in the brain to toxic levels can cause brain damage – and eventually dementia. The work follows on from Professor...

    Last Post By: Firestarter 12-15-2017, 07:08 AM Go to last post
  • Education & Thought Power

    PierzStyx

    The African Enlightenment and Liberal Ideals in 1500s

    Thread Starter: PierzStyx

    Interesting article. The writer takes a few shots at Locke, some justified and some incorrect. The whole tone of trying to pull down men like Locke to try and lift up others is unfortunate, I hate when authors try such a tactic because it is pointless. The real value of the article though is how it helps demonstrates that liberal ideals have developed independently of one another on every...

    Last Post By: Madison320 Yesterday, 08:44 PM Go to last post
    r3volution 3.0

    The Last Two Wars

    Thread Starter: r3volution 3.0

    ...killed 68 million people. This is a reminder. ...in light of martial noises coming out of DC now. Remember what "go get 'em" costs.

    Last Post By: RJB Yesterday, 11:16 AM Go to last post
    Brian4Liberty

    Meet The Southern Poverty Law Center

    Thread Starter: Brian4Liberty

    Meet The Southern Poverty Law Center

    Last Post By: AZJoe 12-15-2017, 07:01 PM Go to last post
    r3volution 3.0

    Contract Enforcement in Ancapistan

    Thread Starter: r3volution 3.0

    Some example contracts to consider: Contract #1: "Smith shall give Jones $100 today, and Jones shall give Smith $110 in one year. Either party may unilaterally void the contract." Contract #2: "Smith shall give Jones $100 today, and Jones shall give Smith $110 in one year. Smith may unilaterally void the contract." Contract #3: "Smith shall give Jones $100 today, and Jones shall give...

    Last Post By: r3volution 3.0 12-14-2017, 09:10 PM Go to last post
    kcchiefs6465

    FBI (all the way up to Hoover) Knowingly Frames Innocent Men, Covers Up Evidence for Decades

    Thread Starter: kcchiefs6465

    A case I just recently became aware of in which the FBI, all the way up to J. Edgar Hoover, conspired to imprison men for decades for a murder they knew the men didn't commit. Not only did they know the men did not commit the murder, they knew about the murder going to happen two days prior to it and did nothing to prevent it because of the "potential" good their informants could do if they were...

    Last Post By: CCTelander 12-14-2017, 12:18 PM Go to last post
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