• State of the Liberty movement

    The national campaigns aren't helping at the moment. They won't let us win, so education is the best we could get from national campaigns and Ron Paul really showed the power of that, surveys on this forum confirmed it. Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul, not even a McAfee, he won't get the word out, maybe a bastardized compromise that may help us in future coalitions but could hurt us too.

    Grassroots is where it is at for feeding the tree of Liberty, it will blossom on its own given enough food. Given the timeline this nation and other nations are on, we don't have much hope of straightening course from the helm, we need to be bracing for impact individually and as a result hopefully collectively. We need to feed the tree of Liberty in our own lives, with our own families, neighbors and yes, local politics.

    If we assume this bad boy is going to come crashing down from the top, those who best stand to benefit will be those ready for it at the bottom. As their national leaders fail them, which is ever so obvious, the people will be looking for answers locally, which is where we stand to benefit. Those of us who correctly witness the situation we are in to our families, neighbors and communities will be looked on prophetically as Ron Paul was, as it comes to pass. Be yourself, campaign individually as we know we all do, maybe take a look at a community board seat, county position or even state if one were ambitious like Ron, Rand, Amash and Masie. Local politics WILL matter when national politics fails.


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    Comments 23 Comments
    1. jllundqu's Avatar
      jllundqu -
      Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
      The national campaigns aren't helping at the moment. They won't let us win, so education is the best we could get from national campaigns and Ron Paul really showed the power of that, surveys on this forum confirmed it. Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul, not even a McAfee, he won't get the word out, maybe a bastardized compromise that may help us in future coalitions but could hurt us too.

      Grassroots is where it is at for feeding the tree of Liberty, it will blossom on its own given enough food. Given the timeline this nation and other nations are on, we don't have much hope of straightening course from the helm, we need to be bracing for impact individually and as a result hopefully collectively. We need to feed the tree of Liberty in our own lives, with our own families, neighbors and yes, local politics.

      If we assume this bad boy is going to come crashing down from the top, those who best stand to benefit will be those ready for it at the bottom. As their national leaders fail them, which is ever so obvious, the people will be looking for answers locally which is where we stand to benefit. Those of us who correctly witness the situation we are in to our families, neighbors and communities will be looked on prophetically as Ron Paul was as it comes to pass. Be yourself, campaign individually as we know we all do, maybe take a look at a community board seat, county position or even state if one where ambitious like Ron, Rand, Amash and Masie. Local politics WILL matter when national politics fails.
      Agreed. Local is where it's at. THings will continue to devolve until either a war, economic collapse, attack on the grid, or some combo leave people cutoff from national concerns... local communities, churches, and town/city officials will be who to go to... Get in at the local level. Get to know your neighbors. This country is due for some serious reckoning in the coming years.
    1. acptulsa's Avatar
      acptulsa -
      Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
      The national campaigns aren't helping at the moment. They won't let us win, so education is the best we could get from national campaigns and Ron Paul really showed the power of that, surveys on this forum confirmed it. Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul, not even a McAfee, he won't get the word out, maybe a bastardized compromise that may help us in future coalitions but could hurt us too.
      The most important bit of education we could do at this point, in my opinion, would be to educate people about the Twelfth Amendment. By doing just enough to win over disaffected Sanders voters, without doing enough to offend those mainstream Republicans who can't stomach the orange clown, Johnson is potentially doing just what it takes to make people take a serious interest in the Twelfth Amendment.

      That's not something you spark interest in by not running to win a significant portion of the vote. That's something you spark interest in by stealing enough votes from both major parties to get them below fifty percent apiece.
    1. phill4paul's Avatar
      phill4paul -
      <<<insert applause gif>>>

      +rep. The Fed/Gov is so $#@!ed it's not possible to right it. In the 10 yrs. I've been on this forum we've managed to help get perhaps a handful of liberty representatives. We don't have another 100 yrs. before it comes crashing down. Beans, bullion, bullets and local ballots.
    1. osan's Avatar
      osan -
      Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
      The national campaigns aren't helping at the moment. They won't let us win, so education is the best we could get from national campaigns and Ron Paul really showed the power of that, surveys on this forum confirmed it. Gary Johnson is not Ron Paul, not even a McAfee, he won't get the word out, maybe a bastardized compromise that may help us in future coalitions but could hurt us too.

      Grassroots is where it is at for feeding the tree of Liberty, it will blossom on its own given enough food. Given the timeline this nation and other nations are on, we don't have much hope of straightening course from the helm, we need to be bracing for impact individually and as a result hopefully collectively. We need to feed the tree of Liberty in our own lives, with our own families, neighbors and yes, local politics.

      If we assume this bad boy is going to come crashing down from the top, those who best stand to benefit will be those ready for it at the bottom. As their national leaders fail them, which is ever so obvious, the people will be looking for answers locally, which is where we stand to benefit. Those of us who correctly witness the situation we are in to our families, neighbors and communities will be looked on prophetically as Ron Paul was, as it comes to pass. Be yourself, campaign individually as we know we all do, maybe take a look at a community board seat, county position or even state if one were ambitious like Ron, Rand, Amash and Masie. Local politics WILL matter when national politics fails.

      Even if a great messiah rose to the Seat, so what? Without people who are liberty literate and wanton of that state, freedom has no chance. As of this minute, it has no chance. That may change, and I sincerely hope it does. So yeah, education is key.
    1. bunklocoempire's Avatar
      bunklocoempire -
      Agreed. + rep OP island neighbor, who I still have yet to meet.

      Know your neighbors, anticipate their strengths & weaknesses.

      The more that people's resources are squeezed, the more things become obvious locally, and the better to capitalize.

      Local politics matters greatly, right now.

      Witness Jen Ruggles, emerging to challenge Danny Paleka for Puna district county council seat. She is capitalizing on the local corruption brought to light (again). The tighter things get, the more people pay attention. Hawaii IS corruption, has been for a long time, so what changed? The peasant's conditions, as far as I can tell. Some, who are not connected to power, are not so willing to look the other way these days.

      Does Jen have it all together? No way. She is not yet consistent with the concept of "consent" (services we can't opt out of), but she has previously mentioned peace, and that tells me she may be open to learning the peace benefits of aloha, rather than always going to government force.

      This is painful to watch, but it's Puna's current county council political reality. I offer it simply as an incentive to explore your own local area, to see what you're up against, and to think about a tailored message for your neighbors. Some of the local powers that be, have become incredibly lazy with their messaging (Paleka), and have left themselves vulnerable. Tell me there isn't opportunity, after listening to this disjointed candidate "forum". lol



      Do you smell the fear wafting from Danny? I sure do. If he was truly "pono for Puna", he'd wouldn't know fear. His "pono" moniker (righteousness, righteous idea) isn't consistent with his use of government force to implement his agenda. I'll be attempting to remind locals about the inconsistencies of the local rulers, every time those rulers make the mistake of whipping out "aloha" to promote government force. They whip it out EVERY time.

      Interesting times, a spooked herd, some spooked rulers (leaders are rare), and more and more opportunity every passing day. SWOOP! SWOOP!
    1. Ronin Truth's Avatar
      Ronin Truth -
      What about the Liberty of the State movement?
    1. CPUd's Avatar
      CPUd -
    1. Athan's Avatar
      Athan -
      Usually when a movement's steam is running out, it is because it is no longer addressing the needs it should be. In short, the liberty movement has allowed itself to stagnate while "alt-right" have taken our ideas of banks, foreign policy, monetary policies, and etc and are running with them by picking up and talking about points we either refuse to address, to controversial for us to break down, or feel to unimportant to our ideals.

      They aren't afraid of being edgy, controversial, and aggressive. This is why I myself barely come to ronpaulforums for news anymore. This and Daily Paul used to be THEE place for news shills wanted to keep from going public.
    1. MattRay's Avatar
      MattRay -
      I've been concerned about this since Dr. Paul hasn't been in the spotlight as much the last few years. His message was so compelling, so well articulated and with so much credibility, particularly on monetrary policy/economics, the drug war and foreign policy, I don't know who else can take the liberty movement to the next level. I do view this year as a golden opportunity, but Weld has the potential to screw it up and it can be tough to overlook Johnson on religious liberty and discrimination. But he's at least started promoting the NAP a bit and he's a big step in the right direction compared to the GOP, Dems, Trump ect. on foreign policy/intervention, free markets, the drug war, taxes, term limits ect. But I hope some newcomers/converts recognize the difference between libertarianism and The Libertarian Party. Ron Paul's campaigns were so great because they coincided with some excellent books he authored, which thankfully included some suggested reading as well so I was able to discover great books like Rothbard's America's Great Depression for instance and learn about the Austrian Business Cycle theory. Sadly, I doubt we'll be seeing the ABCT from Johnson and this certainly isn't inspiring time in the liberty movement like 2007-2012 nor is this a campaign about education like Dr. Paul's 3 campaigns, but it remains a good opportunity so I'm excited about that nonetheless. I have to say that I disagree about McAfee too. I'm happy he didn't get the nomination because he would have done us no favors expanding the movement and just added to the misconception that libertarians are weird, crazy ect. Peteresen definitely had his strengths, particularly a better understanding of libertarianism than Johnson(except for his views on the NAP) and the right idea reaching out to conservatives, though I wasn't sure how many were going to take him seriously considering he looks like a kid and has never held any political office. On the bright side, at least Gary is doing one thing Austin wouldn't, which is promote the NAP. Really, the best hope for the future is Amash as far as I can see. He really is excellent, imo and a breath of fresh air, but he's not that well known yet.
    1. afwjam's Avatar
      afwjam -
      Johnson was and is the weakest Libertarian because he just does not "get it", he does not pull the whole picture together with Liberty being the answer. McAfee got it, Petersen got it, Ron for sure got it. Johnson and his socially liberal, fiscally conservative best of the democrats and republicans campaign won't do us any favors unless we think Bernie supporters are going to learn real Liberty principles from him(they won't) and remain a part of a future coalition. I can only dream, but McAfee would be making waves right now dropping truth bombs, some might call it crazy, I call it common sense. knowing that he is not educated in Libertarian scholars, I was even more impressed with McAfee because he got it on a gut level, making the right calls on principles and values. He was a breath of fresh air during the debates, fun yet right, Johnson is a philosophical mess and completely uninspiring.
    1. jkob's Avatar
      jkob -
      we'll have a better understanding of where we're at after these coming primaries

      still hoping to put John McCain into retirement
    1. afwjam's Avatar
      afwjam -
      Quote Originally Posted by jkob View Post
      we'll have a better understanding of where we're at after these coming primaries

      still hoping to put John McCain into retirement
      Looks like there are a couple glimmers of hope, a senate seat and a couple house seats would be nice.
    1. Natural Citizen's Avatar
      Natural Citizen -
      Quote Originally Posted by Athan View Post
      Usually when a movement's steam is running out, it is because it is no longer addressing the needs it should be. In short, the liberty movement has allowed itself to stagnate while "alt-right" have taken our ideas of banks, foreign policy, monetary policies, and etc and are running with them by picking up and talking about points we either refuse to address, to controversial for us to break down, or feel to unimportant to our ideals.

      They aren't afraid of being edgy, controversial, and aggressive. This is why I myself barely come to ronpaulforums for news anymore. This and Daily Paul used to be THEE place for news shills wanted to keep from going public.
      Well. I Don't know. What do you think we should do? I mean, screw it, I'm open to ideas. I don't even mind starting over again. Heck, that might even be the better plan.

      I'm of the view that we'd do better to get back to the more meaningful fundamental things. That's just me talking, though. Some may and likely will disagree.
    1. ChristianAnarchist's Avatar
      ChristianAnarchist -
      The "Liberty Movement" as I see it has pretty much gone underground.&nbsp; Almost everyone I talk to wants something along the lines of true liberty but they are ignorant as to what liberty is. When explained in simple terms most agree that it's what they desire but then the mind-fuk conditioning by the media comes in and they are hung up on things like roads, gun control, and their favorite welfare program (social or military).

      TPTB have full control of the brain washing apparatus and it's hard to break that conditioning...
    1. MattRay's Avatar
      MattRay -
      Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
      Johnson was and is the weakest Libertarian because he just does not "get it", he does not pull the whole picture together with Liberty being the answer. McAfee got it, Petersen got it, Ron for sure got it. Johnson and his socially liberal, fiscally conservative best of the democrats and republicans campaign won't do us any favors unless we think Bernie supporters are going to learn real Liberty principles from him(they won't) and remain a part of a future coalition. I can only dream, but McAfee would be making waves right now dropping truth bombs, some might call it crazy, I call it common sense. knowing that he is not educated in Libertarian scholars, I was even more impressed with McAfee because he got it on a gut level, making the right calls on principles and values. He was a breath of fresh air during the debates, fun yet right, Johnson is a philosophical mess and completely uninspiring.
      There's no doubt McAfee is better philosophically and I would have definitely supported him had he been the nominee, but given all of the stuff out there about him(unrelated to his ideology), I don't know how many would have even given him a fair chance. The media basically refuses to discuss ideology and loves the tabloid type stuff. I'm not even talking about people's reactions to his ideas, I worry about people even listening to the ideas and giving them a fair chance. It's hard enough to get people to listen to any principles in politics, but in particular, I worried McAfee had too much baggage for people who aren't already libertarians to get past. As it is, I wish Johnson wasn't as eccentric as he was and certainly wish we didn't have things like the guy stripping at the LP convention. I wish more followed Ron Paul's example, including presentation. Maybe I'm too cynical, but once Rand's campaign failed to gain traction, I've had very low expectations for the liberty movement in this election. Basically, I resigned myself to just hoping for a much better showing in the election to build on so the next Ron Paul or even Harry Browne isn't completely ignored like in '88 or '96 and 2000 and hopefully a crack in the armor of the one party monopoly. The one real positive I see with Trump's campaign is that I think he's actually helping with that, as is the cynicism caused by a candidate as terrible as Hillary being forced on the public.
    1. osan's Avatar
      osan -
      Quote Originally Posted by MattRay View Post
      I've been concerned about this since Dr. Paul hasn't been in the spotlight as much the last few years. His message was so compelling, so well articulated and with so much credibility, particularly on monetrary policy/economics, the drug war and foreign policy, I don't know who else can take the liberty movement to the next level. I do view this year as a golden opportunity, but Weld has the potential to screw it up and it can be tough to overlook Johnson on religious liberty and discrimination. But he's at least started promoting the NAP a bit and he's a big step in the right direction compared to the GOP, Dems, Trump ect. on foreign policy/intervention, free markets, the drug war, taxes, term limits ect. But I hope some newcomers/converts recognize the difference between libertarianism and The Libertarian Party. Ron Paul's campaigns were so great because they coincided with some excellent books he authored, which thankfully included some suggested reading as well so I was able to discover great books like Rothbard's America's Great Depression for instance and learn about the Austrian Business Cycle theory. Sadly, I doubt we'll be seeing the ABCT from Johnson and this certainly isn't inspiring time in the liberty movement like 2007-2012 nor is this a campaign about education like Dr. Paul's 3 campaigns, but it remains a good opportunity so I'm excited about that nonetheless. I have to say that I disagree about McAfee too. I'm happy he didn't get the nomination because he would have done us no favors expanding the movement and just added to the misconception that libertarians are weird, crazy ect. Peteresen definitely had his strengths, particularly a better understanding of libertarianism than Johnson(except for his views on the NAP) and the right idea reaching out to conservatives, though I wasn't sure how many were going to take him seriously considering he looks like a kid and has never held any political office. On the bright side, at least Gary is doing one thing Austin wouldn't, which is promote the NAP. Really, the best hope for the future is Amash as far as I can see. He really is excellent, imo and a breath of fresh air, but he's not that well known yet.
      The sooner the good doctor drops dead, the happier the elite shall be.

      That is why we all have to become something similar in terms of beacons of truth and examples to those around us. I do what I can daily, but one man can do only so much, even if he is Ron Paul.

      One of my methods is to open carry everywhere I go. I even go to the bank armed. Other than two incidents, the response of my fellow West Virginians has been overwhelmingly positive. People need to see "liberty behavior" and not just hear the words. I can barely overemphasize how important this is. If you live in a hell hole like NY/NJ/CA/IL/HI/OH/RI/MA/CT, wear an empty holster and do it defiantly. If the people around you freak out, tough $#@!. If the cops give you $#@!, fear not. This is a comparatively small price to pay, IMO.

      The land is in grave jeopardy. Do what you can before it is too late.
    1. Peace&Freedom's Avatar
      Peace&Freedom -
      I've suggested three basic approaches going forward to advance liberty, both nationally and locally:

      1) Run candidates with a Ron Paul like mind, and a William Wallace like alpha vibe. Much of the public has to be reached by means other than reason, as they are turned off by the 'brainiac' form of libertarianism we usually lead with. A charismatic, libertarian populist candidate who presents as a rousing "libertarian of the heart," while retaining the core liberty ideas, can do better at reaching the masses. McAfee was one possibility, though he had an iffy background with the law and lack of preparation that limited his appeal. Other examples may include Kurt Russell, Adam Kokesh, Alex Jones, etc.

      2) Run liberty candidates who will also engage the voting blocs needed to build winning coalitions, and will aggressively fight the establishment barriers to liberty. This is the fundamental lesson learned from the last three election cycles, and cannot be sidestepped. A candidate who only satisfies the 5% liberty core, or can even grow the base towards 10% as Ron Paul did, does not get us to the 51% needed to win primaries and elections. If running within the GOP universe the candidates need to appeal to socons, tea partiers, or disaffected anti-establishment dynamics of the party. That means speaking to their issues and concerns from a liberty perspective, not just barking our issues at them. The candidates also need to be able to figure out how to "disable the tractor beam" of the media and leadership that constantly tries to marginalize liberty, or PC shame it into conformity.

      3) Pursue a Bi-partisan Open Seat Strategy (BOSS) to get more liberty candidates elected locally. Most seats are in areas that are not competitive for the purposes of liberty candidates winning the election, that is, they are dominated by GOP or Dem hacks who win with above 55+% of the vote. Recognizing that 95% of seats are gerrymandered to support Republican or Democrat (statist) incumbents, we should focus instead on running in a primary or special election where the incumbent is retiring, passed away, or removed by scandal. Run on a liberty platform to win the nomination of the dominant party in the district or area (if it's a deeply Democratic district, run a Ron Paul Democrat, or if Republican, run a Ron Paul Republican).

      Field for suitable candidates using the local CFL/RP/liberty meetups and mailing lists, or from the local LP. Upon winning the primary for the vacated seat, the liberty candidate then has the inside track to win the election. An example of how this results in victory is the Bentivolio case in Michigan (a RP supporter who won a house seat by being the only GOP candidate in the primary when the incumbent Republican retired). The BOSS approach should thus create higher percentage opportunities for liberty people to win seats, regardless of which major party way the district rolls.
    1. Natural Citizen's Avatar
      Natural Citizen -
      Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
      The "Liberty Movement" as I see it has pretty much gone underground.&nbsp; Almost everyone I talk to wants something along the lines of true liberty but they are ignorant as to what liberty is. When explained in simple terms most agree that it's what they desire but then the mind-fuk conditioning by the media comes in and they are hung up on things like roads, gun control, and their favorite welfare program (social or military).

      TPTB have full control of the brain washing apparatus and it's hard to break that conditioning...
      I think something that is missing is a common intention within the Liberty movement. It's a critical gap. And likely a decisive gap in terms of outcome.
    1. MattRay's Avatar
      MattRay -
      Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
      The sooner the good doctor drops dead, the happier the elite shall be.

      That is why we all have to become something similar in terms of beacons of truth and examples to those around us. I do what I can daily, but one man can do only so much, even if he is Ron Paul.

      One of my methods is to open carry everywhere I go. I even go to the bank armed. Other than two incidents, the response of my fellow West Virginians has been overwhelmingly positive. People need to see "liberty behavior" and not just hear the words. I can barely overemphasize how important this is. If you live in a hell hole like NY/NJ/CA/IL/HI/OH/RI/MA/CT, wear an empty holster and do it defiantly. If the people around you freak out, tough $#@!. If the cops give you $#@!, fear not. This is a comparatively small price to pay, IMO.

      The land is in grave jeopardy. Do what you can before it is too late.
      Fortunately, Ron Paul is still active and seems to be in great health for an 80 year old.

      Unfortunately, I live in New York, where the second amendment has been consistently violated. My father who has had virtually no run ins with LE throughout his six and a half decades wasn't even able to get a permit in NYC. Only when we moved to Long Island was he able to, and only able to go to and from the range. While we all know what the purpose of the 2nd amendment is, on a side note, an incident that showed the insanity of NY's gun laws is when 2 men tried to carjack him, but fortunately he happened to be coming from the range so he had his .44 Colt Anaconda on him. If he had been coming from anywhere else, though, who knows what would have happened? And NY's oppressive, unconstitutional gun laws would have been to blame. The other side of the spectrum is what I saw living in East New York, Brooklyn, and to a lesser extent, Bed-Stuy. I can think of one guy in particular on my block who loved waving around his AK-47, and obviously, this guy didn't have this legally. On my old block in East NY, gun shots were pretty much the norm when the sun started to set a bit in the summer, around 8-9 PM and later or with it pitch black in the winter, sometimes during earlier evening, and walking around those streets unarmed with gun shots going off feels like you're "naked." New York's gun laws are downright horrible. Of course, we also had the unconstitutional stop and frisk too, and not just for minorities either. I use to get it in Brooklyn primarily because I was a white guy in a black neighborhood, even just walking 3 blocks to the subway during the middle of the day, or standing 10 feet from my building smoking a cigarette, "we're looking for someone matching your description" ect. My experience in NYC, especially seeing my father and uncle trying to get work in carpentry and construction showed me how awful, oppressive and corrupt our unions are even before I became a libertarian. Man, does New York badly need the liberty movement.

      I try to do my part, particularly talking to people about the Fed and how it's the biggest problem we have and the cause or related to virtually every other problem. How our money is worthless paper, counterfeit ect. I try to explain the ABCT when I can, or point out how the New Deal was an unprecedented failure compared to other depressions and how the welfare state and FDR's legacy are built on a myth. How we don't have anything close to a free market and haven't had a limited government president since Coolidge. I've tried to use analogies for the government's behavior and before telling them I'm referring to the Federal Government, I get people thinking I'm referring to the mafia or something. I try to remind people taxation is extortion and I encourage people to work off the books.

      I do like your idea about the empty holster. As you know, I could never get away with open carry here, but I'm going to consider that.
    1. osan's Avatar
      osan -
      Quote Originally Posted by MattRay View Post
      Fortunately, Ron Paul is still active and seems to be in great health for an 80 year old.

      Unfortunately, I live in New York, where the second amendment has been consistently violated. My father who has had virtually no run ins with LE throughout his six and a half decades wasn't even able to get a permit in NYC. Only when we moved to Long Island was he able to, and only able to go to and from the range. While we all know what the purpose of the 2nd amendment is, on a side note, an incident that showed the insanity of NY's gun laws is when 2 men tried to carjack him, but fortunately he happened to be coming from the range so he had his .44 Colt Anaconda on him. If he had been coming from anywhere else, though, who knows what would have happened? And NY's oppressive, unconstitutional gun laws would have been to blame. The other side of the spectrum is what I saw living in East New York, Brooklyn, and to a lesser extent, Bed-Stuy. I can think of one guy in particular on my block who loved waving around his AK-47, and obviously, this guy didn't have this legally. On my old block in East NY, gun shots were pretty much the norm when the sun started to set a bit in the summer, around 8-9 PM and later or with it pitch black in the winter, sometimes during earlier evening, and walking around those streets unarmed with gun shots going off feels like you're "naked." New York's gun laws are downright horrible. Of course, we also had the unconstitutional stop and frisk too, and not just for minorities either. I use to get it in Brooklyn primarily because I was a white guy in a black neighborhood, even just walking 3 blocks to the subway during the middle of the day, or standing 10 feet from my building smoking a cigarette, "we're looking for someone matching your description" ect. My experience in NYC, especially seeing my father and uncle trying to get work in carpentry and construction showed me how awful, oppressive and corrupt our unions are even before I became a libertarian. Man, does New York badly need the liberty movement.

      I try to do my part, particularly talking to people about the Fed and how it's the biggest problem we have and the cause or related to virtually every other problem. How our money is worthless paper, counterfeit ect. I try to explain the ABCT when I can, or point out how the New Deal was an unprecedented failure compared to other depressions and how the welfare state and FDR's legacy are built on a myth. How we don't have anything close to a free market and haven't had a limited government president since Coolidge. I've tried to use analogies for the government's behavior and before telling them I'm referring to the Federal Government, I get people thinking I'm referring to the mafia or something. I try to remind people taxation is extortion and I encourage people to work off the books.

      I do like your idea about the empty holster. As you know, I could never get away with open carry here, but I'm going to consider that.
      I escaped my home town (NYC) in 1985. It has gotten progressively worse every year since.

      Every time I'm in the city, I wear an empty holster. Last time was on 9/11/10. There were thousands of cops everywhere and I was pretty sure I was going to go to jail that day. To my utter amazement, not one cop said a word to me about it. The only response I got was from a Puerto Rican woman on the subway who looked like she was about to start screaming as she attempted to press her own body through the wall of the car in her frantic desire to escape the presence of the Eville Holster (tm).

      Oddly, I went to the Starbuck's on Spring St. with my friend Jake and to my wild amazement there was another guy there with an empty shoulder-rig. I actually got up from our table and walked over to make sure I was seeing what I thought I was seeing. I said nothing to him and he apparently took no notice of me. It was very strange... in a nice sort of way.

      All I can say is be a little careful. You know how city cops can be. Corrupt as the day is long at the poles and at times touchy. So use some discretion. Otherwise, I say have at it.

      Did you know that 30 years ago residents of Suffolk and/or Nassau counties could carry with no permits? Used to work at Princeton Skate & Ski on Northern Blvd (now gone) and people used to some in with pistols on their hips often.

      Not no mo'.


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    Say what you want, Rand gets ish done.

    Thread Starter: eleganz

    I'm a simple libertarian, its not a zero sum game for me, I'm good with incremental progress and feel thankful that we have Rand, Amash and Massie in there. Its going to be great finally being able to get some health insurance after boycotting Ocare all these years. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/trump-and-sen-rand-paul-lead-the-way-on-healthcare-reform

    Last Post By: Swordsmyth 06-23-2018, 08:23 PM Go to last post
  • General News & Politics

    Schifference

    An 8-year-old tried selling water for a trip to Disneyland. A white woman threatened to call p

    Thread Starter: Schifference

    Things got tight after Erin Austin lost her job, so she struck a deal with her 8-year-old daughter, who had been eagerly anticipating a trip to Disneyland: The family could still make the voyage to the Magic Kingdom if Jordan could help raise money, Austin told USA Today. So the young entrepreneur grabbed a white cooler, some ice and a few bottles of water, taking advantage of Friday’s foot...

    Last Post By: angelatc Today, 06:25 AM Go to last post
    Swordsmyth

    Americans Now Own 40% Of The World's One Billion Guns

    Thread Starter: Swordsmyth

    At the end of 2017, there were approximately 1 billion firearms in over 230 countries around the globe, 84.6 percent of which were held by civilians, 13.1 percent by state militaries, and 2.2 percent by law enforcement agencies - with Americans the dominant owners, according to a study released Monday. Of the 857 million guns owned by civilians, the Small Arms Survey says 393.3 million...

    Last Post By: Suzanimal Today, 06:21 AM Go to last post
    tod evans

    Boogity-boogity Evil Weed propaganda

    Thread Starter: tod evans

    From Drudge; Marijuana playing larger role in fatal crashes http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/06/09/marijuana-accidents/10219119/ As more states are poised to legalize medicinal marijuana, it's looking like dope is playing a larger role as a cause of fatal traffic accidents. Columbia University researchers performing a toxicology examination of nearly 24,000 driving...

    Last Post By: shakey1 Today, 05:39 AM Go to last post
    aGameOfThrones

    Trump Calls For “Immediate” Deportations Of Illegals With “No Judges Or Court Cases”

    Thread Starter: aGameOfThrones

    https://hedgeaccordingly.com/2018/06/trump-calls-for-immediate-deportations-of-illegals-with-no-judges-or-court-cases/

    Last Post By: TheCount Today, 03:00 AM Go to last post
    Swordsmyth

    Maxine Waters Calls For Attacks On White House Employees

    Thread Starter: Swordsmyth

    Congresswoman Maxine Waters (D-CA) openly called for people to form a mob and physically confront members of Donald Trump's administration if they see them out in public after controversy over separated migrant families erupted two weeks ago. Waters, who doesn't live in the district she represents and paid her daughter $750,000 for Democratic fundraising activities, said to a crowd at a...

    Last Post By: Swordsmyth Today, 01:45 AM Go to last post
    Swordsmyth

    Trump: "We're Coming Out Of Syria Very Soon; Others Can Take Care Of It Now"

    Thread Starter: Swordsmyth

    President Donald Trump made a surprise announcement on Thursday afternoon, stating during a speech in Richfield, Ohio dedicated to Trump's infrastructure week, that US forces will be withdrawing from Syria, citing the defeat of ISIS and the need to defend US borders and rebuild crumbling infrastructure: "We're coming out of Syria very soon. Let the other people take care of it now." Others...

    Last Post By: Swordsmyth Yesterday, 10:09 PM Go to last post
    aGameOfThrones

    Immigration To The United States Is A "Human Right"

    Thread Starter: aGameOfThrones

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-23/mexicos-next-president-boldly-declares-immigration-united-states-human-right

    Last Post By: Swordsmyth Yesterday, 09:51 PM Go to last post
    Zippyjuan

    White House defends "moral" border policy that leads to separation of families

    Thread Starter: Zippyjuan

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/live-white-house-press-briefing-today-2018-06-14-live-stream-updates/ More at link. Link to Romans 13: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+13&version=NIV

    Last Post By: devil21 Yesterday, 09:27 PM Go to last post
    Zippyjuan

    Trump Facts

    Thread Starter: Zippyjuan

    Never let facts get in the way. Just from the past week: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/22/president-trumps-week-detached-from-reality.html

    Last Post By: acptulsa Yesterday, 08:53 PM Go to last post
    Zippyjuan

    Chinese leaders ‘absolutely confused’ by Trump’s demands on trade

    Thread Starter: Zippyjuan

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/23/trump-china-trade-confusion-635865 More at link.

    Last Post By: Gumba of Liberty Yesterday, 08:52 PM Go to last post
  • Gold Chart

    [Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]
  • Silver Chart

  • Economics News & Discussion

    DamianTV

    Ron Paul On 'The Dollar Dilemma': Where To From Here?

    Thread Starter: DamianTV

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-23/ron-paul-dollar-dilemma-where-here https://mises.org/wire/dollar-dilemma-where-here Full article at link at top. Original at mises.org link.

    Last Post By: Swordsmyth Today, 01:13 AM Go to last post
    DamianTV

    To Avoid Collapse, Subway Hires Bain & Co. To "Prepare For Sale"

    Thread Starter: DamianTV

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-23/avoid-collapse-subway-hires-bain-co-prepare-sale Full article at link.

    Last Post By: devil21 Yesterday, 09:08 PM Go to last post
    anaconda

    Bitcoin Cracks $5000

    Thread Starter: anaconda

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/cbovaird/2017/09/01/bitcoin-price-tops-5000-as-cryptocurrencies-march-higher/#6d8dc42a5a8e

    Last Post By: devil21 Yesterday, 08:36 PM Go to last post
    timosman

    Trump Tariff Threat on European Cars Escalates Global Trade War

    Thread Starter: timosman

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-22/trump-threatens-to-impose-20-percent-tariff-on-european-cars

    Last Post By: Zippyjuan 06-23-2018, 09:51 PM Go to last post
    DamianTV

    The US Startup Is Disappearing

    Thread Starter: DamianTV

    https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/06/21/1558207/the-us-startup-is-disappearing From 13% to 5%, but Everything is Awesome?

    Last Post By: osan 06-22-2018, 10:42 PM Go to last post
  • Bitcoin Chart

  • Living Free and Healthy

    donnay

    10 Impressive Benefits Of Ginkgo Biloba

    Thread Starter: donnay

    https://www.organicfacts.net/ginkgo.html?utm_source=onesignal&utm_medium=21Apr18WebPush

    Last Post By: shashank16997 Today, 01:48 AM Go to last post
    alivecream

    Ketogenic diet

    Thread Starter: alivecream

    What can you say about the Keto diet? is it really effective? Is it safe?

    Last Post By: Krugminator2 Yesterday, 09:54 PM Go to last post
    donnay

    Could your TOOTHPASTE give you type 2 diabetes? White colouring used in food, suncream and toi

    Thread Starter: donnay

    Could your TOOTHPASTE give you type 2 diabetes? White colouring used in food, suncream and toiletries could lead to the condition, study finds By SAM BLANCHARD FOR MAILONLINE PUBLISHED: 09:12 EDT, 21 June 2018 | UPDATED: 09:58 EDT, 21 June 2018 A common chemical which turns things like food, medicines, toothpastes and paper white could cause type 2 diabetes, a study has found. ...

    Last Post By: Zippyjuan 06-23-2018, 09:48 PM Go to last post
    Danke

    It is gonna be a cold winter.

    Thread Starter: Danke

    This fall the Indians on a remote reservation asked their new Chief Oyarde if the coming winter was going to be cold or mild. Since he was a chief in a modern society, he’d never learned the old tribal secrets. He couldn’t look at the sky to predict what the winter was going to be like. "It's going to be a very cold winter." So just to be on the safe side, Oyarde told his tribe that the...

    Last Post By: oyarde 06-23-2018, 09:04 PM Go to last post
    Marenco

    Why a 'Loneliness Epidemic' is Upon Us

    Thread Starter: Marenco

    http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/why-loneliness-epidemic-upon-us

    Last Post By: enhanced_deficit 06-23-2018, 02:41 PM Go to last post
    enhanced_deficit

    Coffee to come with cancer warning in California

    Thread Starter: enhanced_deficit

    So confusing, up till few months ago coffee was good for health: Coffee requires cancer warning, California judge rules by Associated Press / Mar.30.2018 LOS ANGELES — Scientists haven't rendered a verdict on whether coffee is good or bad for you but a California judge has. He says coffee sellers in the state should have to post cancer warnings. The culprit is a chemical produced...

    Last Post By: enhanced_deficit 06-23-2018, 02:23 PM Go to last post
    Suzu

    Enhancing your body's stem cell production!

    Thread Starter: Suzu

    I've come across a new product that stimulates stem cell production. The potential is to heal just about any condition! I am seeing it work for friends and have started using it myself. I have a $100 discount coupon to give away for a 3-month supply. PM me if interested. a brief introduction -- three and a half minutes:

    Last Post By: Suzu 06-22-2018, 05:45 PM Go to last post
  • Education & Thought Power

    timosman

    Dying for a Paycheck

    Thread Starter: timosman

    https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/books/dying-paycheck https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062800922/

    Last Post By: angelatc Yesterday, 09:39 AM Go to last post
    Firestarter

    Dictator of the British Empire

    Thread Starter: Firestarter

    When I tell the people in Britain that they´re ruled by dictator Queen Elizabeth, they think I’m insane. Arguably England is the only real colonial power left in the world. LETTERS PRINCE CHARLES It is well-known that Queen Elizabeth has a weekly talk with the puppet she selected for Prime Minister. That the Royals talk with politicians to give them “advice” becomes clear when you read the...

    Last Post By: Firestarter Yesterday, 08:52 AM Go to last post
    Mach

    How much are social justice warriors costing their colleges?

    Thread Starter: Mach

    https://usa.spectator.co.uk/2018/06/the-true-cost-of-the-stepford-student/ Douglas Murray 18 June 2018 It has become abundantly clear in recent years that becoming a Social Justice Warrior (SJW) is bad for your health. But recent developments in north America suggest that it is also very bad for your bottom line.

    Last Post By: Mach 06-23-2018, 02:35 AM Go to last post
    gaazn

    If I am non-white, hanging around border with no ID, can I be detained?

    Thread Starter: gaazn

    You're not required to provide Social Security number to anyone that doesn't need it. Are you required to provide any ID on demand? Are you required to answer personal info like name, etc if you are not doing anything illegal. Can they send you to immigration holding facility under presumption that you MIGHT be illegal?

    Last Post By: Zippyjuan 06-21-2018, 01:37 PM Go to last post
    timosman

    Trump's plan to immigration solution.

    Thread Starter: timosman

    Make everybody legal.* No more immigration. Tramp's new season "Manana", will be showing senoras and senorinas who will be telling us how they did it. Trump will be showing off. In one of the episodes he says: "I want to have the name of the motherfucker who pulled the trigger. Why nobody ever looked at who actually did it?" The sound of jaws dropping was heard across the country.:cool:

    Last Post By: Aratus 06-21-2018, 09:26 AM Go to last post
    Anti Federalist

    Non-thinking is an act of annihilation

    Thread Starter: Anti Federalist

    The suicide of the west in three paragraphs. Man’s mind is his basic tool of survival. Life is given to him, survival is not. His body is given to him, its content is not. To remain alive, he must act, and before he can act he must know the nature and purpose of his action. He cannot obtain his food without a knowledge of food, and the way to obtain it. He cannot dig a ditch – or build a...

    Last Post By: Danke 06-21-2018, 07:33 AM Go to last post
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