• Feds announce final e-cigarette rule that nearly bans them

    Electronic cigarettes and premium cigars will now be regulated the same way as tobacco cigarettes and regular cigars, according to a new federal rule issued on Thursday.

    Under the rule, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration would have to approve all tobacco products not currently regulated that hit stores after February 2007. The e-cigarette industry was virtually non-existent before then.

    Premium, hand-rolled cigars would also be included in the new regulation.This final rule also prohibits the sale of "covered tobacco products" to individuals under the age of 18 and requires the display of health warnings on cigarette tobacco, roll-your own tobacco, and covered tobacco product packages and in advertisements.

    The Tobacco Control Act of 2009 sets February 15, 2007, as the latest date by which all tobacco products would have to have to be grandfathered in. Mitch Zeller, head of the FDA's Center for Tobacco Products, has said publicly that he couldn't choose a later date, although industry officials disagree.

    That means nearly all every e-cigarette on the market — and every different flavor and nicotine level — would require a separate application for federal approval. Each application could cost $1 million or more, says Jeff Stier, an e-cigarette advocate with the National Center for Public Policy Research and industry officials.
    An amendment to appropriations legislation working its way through the House would change the date so more e-cigarettes would be grandfathered in.

    The proposed rule was released more than two years ago in April 2014 and the final rule gives the industry two additional years to comply. The industry will have had "plenty of time to submit their applications," says Robin Koval, CEO of the Truth Initiative, an anti-tobacco health group.

    Koval says "it's perfectly reasonable" that people should know what's in something that "you inhale into your lungs."
    Industry experts say treating e-cigarettes, which don't contain tobacco, the same as cigarettes could lead to such onerous and costly approval that all but the largest tobacco companies would be forced out of the market — and possibly those companies too.(Cui bono-Who helped write the legislation? p4p)
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...them/83951786/


    Sign up for a free account to add your comment!


    Comments 64 Comments
    1. puppetmaster's Avatar
      puppetmaster -
      Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
      I'm thinking about getting a gallon of the 100mg/ml VG to put in the freezer just in case.......

      https://www.nudenicotine.com/product...ed-shelf-life/
      Great idea. Lasts a long time.
    1. puppetmaster's Avatar
      puppetmaster -
      Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
      PG gives me sores on my lips, even 10%.......
      propylene sucks imho.
    1. dannno's Avatar
      dannno -
      Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
      Where would you get the nicotine, Danno?
      From a person willing to pay $1 million, I suppose..

      The idea is it doesn't make sense to pay $1 million for every flavor, so you sell the flavors without nicotine so they aren't under the regulation - but then certain brands may be willing to pay the fee to sell the nicotine that people will need.

      It's stupid because the nicotine is extremely toxic when it is concentrated, although you could get the VG/PG blended in with it already and that could be a $1 million product, not sure if they would have to pay $1 million for each level of concentration..
    1. r3volution 3.0's Avatar
      r3volution 3.0 -
      ...they just do not stop having yankees in Washington.
    1. jbauer's Avatar
      jbauer -
      Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
      Call your Congressman. I just did. Look guys, it can't hurt and just might help.
      Did you give a large re-election donation with your call?
    1. jbauer's Avatar
      jbauer -
      Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
      I'm thinking about getting a gallon of the 100mg/ml VG to put in the freezer just in case.......

      https://www.nudenicotine.com/product...ed-shelf-life/
      So I don't smoke or "vap". How long does a gallon of the stuff last? Are we talking days, weeks, months? I could see if 25 gallons might get you through to go ahead and get it done. However, if we're talking 100s of gallons of the stuff it might be easier to figure a post-ban way around it all.
    1. tod evans's Avatar
      tod evans -
      Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
      So I don't smoke or "vap". How long does a gallon of the stuff last? Are we talking days, weeks, months? I could see if 25 gallons might get you through to go ahead and get it done. However, if we're talking 100s of gallons of the stuff it might be easier to figure a post-ban way around it all.
      The way I'm using juice now a gallon of 100mg would last me 2-3 years if I could keep the hardware going...

      Different devices use juice differently but I'm a noobie and have only purchased and maintained one style of device..

      I did manage to kick a 40+ year tobacco habit using this system.........And if the feds $#@! with vaping as they plan I'll be right back to burning tobacco...
    1. specsaregood's Avatar
      specsaregood -
      //
    1. LibertyEagle's Avatar
      LibertyEagle -
      Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
      Got information on the bill #? Or bill name? Or even a silly email/fax form page I can pass around?

      This is monumentally stupid. I consider the e-cigs to be one of the greatest inventions for positive improvements for health in a long time. I know so many people that gave up smoking and are much healthier as a result.
      I saw it yesterday when I was looking at blogs. Whomever runs into it again should post it.

      And yeah, I agree. This has improved so many people's health, it's hard not to be seriously bummed. I know I am.
    1. Anti Federalist's Avatar
      Anti Federalist -
      I quit cigarettes by vaping years ago...but now, I'm half convinced to grow some of my own tobacco and start smoking again.

      If for nothing else but to stuff pepper up the ass of Uncle, and the pantywaist pussies who faint dead away at the very hint of a whiff of tobacco smoke, as if you just blew a cloud of plutonium vapor in their faces.

      Couldn't think of two groups of people I would more like to give a collective and hearty "$#@! $#@!ing you" to.
    1. specsaregood's Avatar
      specsaregood -
      //
    1. Anti Federalist's Avatar
      Anti Federalist -
      Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
      DW and myself have personally bought e-cig setups and juice for 5 different friends who otherwise wouldn't have put out the cash to try it. All 5 of them gave up cigs completely and 2 don't even vape anymore either.
      Yah, that was me.

      Vaped for about 6 months and gave that up too.
    1. presence's Avatar
      presence -
      Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
      DW and myself have personally bought e-cig setups and juice for 5 different friends who otherwise wouldn't have put out the cash to try it. All 5 of them gave up cigs completely and 2 don't even vape anymore either.
      I think we see the necessity of regulating this anti legal addiction drug then.
    1. specsaregood's Avatar
      specsaregood -
      Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
      I think we see the necessity of regulating this anti legal addiction drug then.
      Exactly, who else is gonna fund slush funds for the schools? Think of the children.
    1. Tinnuhana's Avatar
      Tinnuhana -
      Speaking as someone who's extremely allergic to tobacco smoke, it has been nice sharing meals and conversation with people vaping when otherwise, I'd have to be in a different room or building.
      Maybe when they deschedule MJ at the end of the year, the tobacco growers will switch to that and...nah, we lose no matter what. Does anyone think this is a test run for how they'll regulate cannabis when the time comes?
    1. puppetmaster's Avatar
      puppetmaster -
      looks like they will eventually ban tobacco plants and its derivatives.....and legalize smoking weed....??

      Looks also like they are banning pipe tobacco brands that were not in production before 07.... This is a home run for the cigarette brands and a big tax increase for the gov.
    1. opal's Avatar
      opal -
      Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
      So how many more days do those of us who vape have to order juice?
      Is it just the juice or the gear too? The place I get my batteries from (proprietary threading but I like them) has a mothers day sale starting tomorrow..was gonna stock up anyway.

      Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
      I've always heard that it was better to get PG to freeze and then if you want, use VG to cut it later.
      VG girl here too.. can't handle the PG juice.

      I have tried mixing my own.. the results are never the same. This really blows.
      There are several places that sell max VG juice - up to I think .36 mg nic in larger bottles 250 ml I think is the size.
      It does loose flavor after a while - even in the freezer.

      If we get a president that gets rid of the FDA.. all their regs go too I hope
    1. Anti Federalist's Avatar
      Anti Federalist -
      Quote Originally Posted by opal View Post
      If we get a president that gets rid of the FDA.. all their regs go too I hope
      You have a better chance of seeing god.
    1. opal's Avatar
      opal -
      ok.. I found the document.. have it downloaded as a pdf. It's 1.7 MB so I think it's probably too big to attach and I'm going to try and paste it in.. wish me luck

      ok. .it's 495 pages long.. some how I think even if it did work.. the reading is too dry

      if anyone has thoughts where to upload so anyone that wants to read it can.. feel free - I'll try
    1. LibertyEagle's Avatar
      LibertyEagle -
      CASAA is asking us to contact our Congressmen and ask them to support HR 2058.


    Sign up for a free account to add your comment!





    Continue / discuss in the forums Read More

  • Activism News & Discussion

    r3volution 3.0

    A Monarchist Party?

    Thread Starter: r3volution 3.0

    Plank One: "Democracy is socialism; we favor monarchy because we favor liberty." Plank Two: "Elections are a joke and we decline to participate; you may self-destruct all by yourself."

    Last Post By: r3volution 3.0 Yesterday, 11:35 PM Go to last post
    FrankRep

    Controlled Opposition - A must read for everyone in the liberty movement

    Thread Starter: FrankRep

    Controlled Opposition by Arthur R. Thompson, CEO, The John Birch Society One of the oldest ruses regularly employed by conspirators is to assume control of your opposition, and where none exists, create it. Over history there have been groundswells of opposition against conspiracies that, had the conspirators not gained control of them, would have led to the defeat of those...

    Last Post By: TER Yesterday, 09:50 AM Go to last post
  • Ron Paul & Rand Paul: News & Discussion

    Anti Federalist

    >>>>hold!!!<<<<

    Thread Starter: Anti Federalist

    HOLD!!!

    Last Post By: TER Yesterday, 09:53 PM Go to last post
  • General News & Politics

    TER

    Is this what is REALLY going on?

    Thread Starter: TER

    I hope and pray so. Time will tell. Below is what is the most concise summary of what is possibly going on that I have read: (not my words) Long time lurker, first time poster. Read the map as a game of chess. Q: Want to play a game of chess? Trump Queen: OIG/Horowitz:

    Last Post By: NorthCarolinaLiberty Today, 12:32 PM Go to last post
    Swordsmyth

    Controversial bill would force business owners to take down bulletproof glass

    Thread Starter: Swordsmyth

    PHILADELPHIA (WTXF) - A controversial bill is currently working its way through city hall designed to regulate 'stop and go' liquor stores. One part of the bill would force business owners to take down bulletproof glass inside their stores. A bill moving through city council reads: "No establishment shall erect or maintain a physical barrier." It's called the 'Stop and Go' bill and is...

    Last Post By: PursuePeace Today, 12:24 PM Go to last post
    Anti Federalist

    Damn, missed it yesterday. 10th anniversary of Tea Party

    Thread Starter: Anti Federalist

    Was down with a headache most of the day and missed it. 16 Dec 2007. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?244-Tea-Party-Weekend-12-15-16-Planning http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?191-Tea-Party

    Last Post By: Anti Federalist Today, 11:39 AM Go to last post
    Swordsmyth

    New Sexual Assault Claims On Deck: "The House Is Going To Be Rocked In The Coming 72 Hours"

    Thread Starter: Swordsmyth

    The Daily Caller'sLuke Rosiak says that within 72 hours, "The House Is Going To Be Rocked" with a new bombshell which he says "will see the resignation of more than a dozen House members over harassment and secret settlements, and soon." Rosiak, who has earned a large following as one of the leading journalists cataloging the Awan brothers scandal, does not typically engage in hyperbole...

    Last Post By: asurfaholic Today, 10:48 AM Go to last post
    johnwk

    President Trump’s tax plan keeps the socialist communist progressive income tax alive

    Thread Starter: johnwk

    . Well, now that the Republican tax reform is finalized on paper, we see that it not only keeps the socialist, communist, progressive income tax alive, but President Trump has already given thumbs up to this Washington Sewer Rat’s method of taxation which does nothing to remove the iron fist of our federal government from the necks of America’s hard working productive citizens and business...

    Last Post By: Madison320 Today, 09:55 AM Go to last post
    Anti Federalist

    The driverless revolution may exact a political price

    Thread Starter: Anti Federalist

    Just take your UBI card and go away, OK? Keep in mind, UBI, in the cashless society, will not purchase government disapproved items. Everything from a Big Mac to a Beretta will be blocked. Enjoy your future, slaves.

    Last Post By: Occam's Banana Today, 04:51 AM Go to last post
    Swordsmyth

    California and Washington State Join Carbon Pledge in Defiance of Constitution

    Thread Starter: Swordsmyth

    California and Washington state joined five nations on the Pacific coast of the Americas on Tuesday to agree to step up the use of a price on carbon dioxide emissions as a central economic policy to slow climate change. The U.S. states were acting in defiance of President Donald Trump who says he doubts that man-made greenhouse gas emissions from burning...

    Last Post By: Weston White Today, 02:23 AM Go to last post
    enhanced_deficit

    Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner questioned over $1.15bn mortgage

    Thread Starter: enhanced_deficit

    One of the most respected and qualified White House advisors doubling as mideast peace maker, Jared Kushner, is now being criticized in parts of media. Until now he seemed to have been treated with kids gloves mostly. Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner questioned over $1.15bn mortgage Democrats are expressing concern that Mr Trump's son-in-law is leveraging...

    Last Post By: enhanced_deficit Today, 01:12 AM Go to last post
    enhanced_deficit

    Tremendous pressure on Hillary, Obama to return all money sexual predator Weinstein raised

    Thread Starter: enhanced_deficit

    for them. Pressure keeps on growing every day they keep that money. Related Predatory creep Harvey Weinstein

    Last Post By: enhanced_deficit Today, 12:43 AM Go to last post
    Anti Federalist

    Republicans Save EV Subsidy . . . And in Other News, it Will Get Dark Tonight

    Thread Starter: Anti Federalist

    Republicans Save EV Subsidy . . . And in Other News, it Will Get Dark Tonight https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2017/12/17/republicans-save-ev-subsidy-news-will-get-dark-tonight/ By eric - December 17, 2017 The same Republicans who worked overtime to make sure Obamacare wasn’t repealed – or even “replaced” – have done as expected and made sure the $7,500 subsidy for the purchase of...

    Last Post By: Anti Federalist Today, 12:10 AM Go to last post
  • Gold Chart

    [Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]
  • Silver Chart

  • Economics News & Discussion

    Firestarter

    BlackRock, Vanguard, State Street own the US

    Thread Starter: Firestarter

    When investigating the 1 October Las Vegas “mass shooting” I found out about Vanguard and Fidelity (FMR). I postponed starting a thread on this, because there were some other things I wanted to do first. First I looked at the major shareholders in Live Nation Entertainment Inc, which includes Vanguard (several times) and Fidelity:...

    Last Post By: devil21 Today, 12:06 PM Go to last post
    euphemia

    Ten Things Trump Can Do To Cut Waste

    Thread Starter: euphemia

    Very interesting, and practical article, I thought. Donald J. Trump won the presidency by giving real hope to millions of voters that their situation could improve. Now he and Congress have a chance to take action and deliver real results. One way to encourage economic growth is to stop wasting taxpayer dollars on activities that do nothing to create wealth. Linkification

    Last Post By: The Gold Standard Today, 11:03 AM Go to last post
    DGambler

    What coins are you looking at in 2018?

    Thread Starter: DGambler

    Been a while since I played in the Crypto markets and am looking to get back in... What coins are folks looking at over the next 12 months? XRP or IOTA any good? Any others I should research?

    Last Post By: gaazn Today, 08:23 AM Go to last post
    anaconda

    Bitcoin Cracks $5000

    Thread Starter: anaconda

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/cbovaird/2017/09/01/bitcoin-price-tops-5000-as-cryptocurrencies-march-higher/#6d8dc42a5a8e

    Last Post By: dannno Yesterday, 09:01 PM Go to last post
    Zippyjuan

    North Korea Going After Bitcoins

    Thread Starter: Zippyjuan

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42378638

    Last Post By: Mordan Yesterday, 05:53 PM Go to last post
    timosman

    I-66 express lanes debut with $34.50 toll, among the highest in U.S.

    Thread Starter: timosman

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/i-66-express-lanes-debut-with-3450-toll-among-the-highest-in-us/2017/12/04/ad60ce38-d900-11e7-a841-2066faf731ef_story.html

    Last Post By: LibForestPaul 12-15-2017, 08:52 PM Go to last post
  • Bitcoin Chart

  • Living Free and Healthy

    DamianTV

    2 Drops Of Spilled Mercury Destroyed This Scientist's Brain - Chemistry Video

    Thread Starter: DamianTV

    Last Post By: angelatc Yesterday, 02:51 PM Go to last post
    Intoxiklown

    Widely used drug, Metformin, showing promising treatments and prevention of many ailments

    Thread Starter: Intoxiklown

    I'm posting this here as both a way to get people who may benefit from Metformin "in the know" about it, as well as the fact that I thought this crowd would appreciate this apparent miracle drug is derived from an herb long used in natural medicine. It's literally a symbiosis of science and nature in a good way. And Metformin is CHEAPPPP! Metformin is a pharmaceutical processed from the herb...

    Last Post By: Intoxiklown Yesterday, 02:05 PM Go to last post
    DamianTV

    Don't Keep Cellphones Next To Your Body, California Health Department Warns

    Thread Starter: DamianTV

    https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/12/15/2247201/dont-keep-cellphones-next-to-your-body-california-health-department-warns References on Slashdot Link. --- Welcome to Kalifornia, where talking bad about the "elected" officials are known to cause cancer in laboratory animals.

    Last Post By: Firestarter Yesterday, 07:18 AM Go to last post
    donnay

    How Much Do You Really Know About Vaccine Safety?

    Thread Starter: donnay

    How Much Do You Really Know About Vaccine Safety? By Dr. Mercola The video above features a lecture by Del Bigtree,1 an Emmy award-winning producer of "The Doctors" talk show for six years, and one of the producers of the documentary "Vaxxed." I actually attended and saw the talk he gave during the 2017 "Truth About Cancer Live" event in Orlando, Florida, where I was also speaking. ...

    Last Post By: donnay 12-16-2017, 03:40 PM Go to last post
    donnay

    How Dangerous Is Fluoride To Your Health?

    Thread Starter: donnay

    How Dangerous Is Fluoride To Your Health? Fluorine is an element. It is a gas, never occurring in its free state. In microscopic amounts complexed with other minerals, it is often listed as a trace mineral, a nutrient for human nutrition. The fluoride added to 90% of drinking water is hydrofluoric acid which is a compound of fluorine that is a chemical byproduct of aluminum, steel,...

    Last Post By: Firestarter 12-16-2017, 12:06 PM Go to last post
    1stvermont

    Southern Agrarians- did America Lose its Liberty When it Lost its Agrarian Roots?

    Thread Starter: 1stvermont

    ​I did this thread in the history section but i think it better fits here. Southern Agrarians and Northern Industrialists “White folks you can have your automobiles, paved streets and lights. You can have your buses, and street cars, and hot pavement and tall buildings cause I aint got no use for em no way. I tell you what I do want--I want my old cotton bed and the moonlight shining...

    Last Post By: oyarde 12-15-2017, 10:39 PM Go to last post
  • Education & Thought Power

    Created4

    Is This the Most Libertarian Legal Opinion Ever Written?

    Thread Starter: Created4

    From Reason.com: In a resounding victory last month for economic liberty, the Texas Supreme Court struck down a state licensing law that required eyebrow threaders to complete 750 hours of costly and unnecessary cosmetology training in order to receive the state's permission to charge customers for the harmless act of removing unwanted eyebrow hairs with a loop of cotton thread. Here's an...

    Last Post By: r3volution 3.0 Yesterday, 09:29 PM Go to last post
    PierzStyx

    The African Enlightenment and Liberal Ideals in 1500s

    Thread Starter: PierzStyx

    Interesting article. The writer takes a few shots at Locke, some justified and some incorrect. The whole tone of trying to pull down men like Locke to try and lift up others is unfortunate, I hate when authors try such a tactic because it is pointless. The real value of the article though is how it helps demonstrates that liberal ideals have developed independently of one another on every...

    Last Post By: Madison320 12-16-2017, 08:44 PM Go to last post
    r3volution 3.0

    The Last Two Wars

    Thread Starter: r3volution 3.0

    ...killed 68 million people. This is a reminder. ...in light of martial noises coming out of DC now. Remember what "go get 'em" costs.

    Last Post By: RJB 12-16-2017, 11:16 AM Go to last post
    Brian4Liberty

    Meet The Southern Poverty Law Center

    Thread Starter: Brian4Liberty

    Meet The Southern Poverty Law Center

    Last Post By: AZJoe 12-15-2017, 07:01 PM Go to last post
    r3volution 3.0

    Contract Enforcement in Ancapistan

    Thread Starter: r3volution 3.0

    Some example contracts to consider: Contract #1: "Smith shall give Jones $100 today, and Jones shall give Smith $110 in one year. Either party may unilaterally void the contract." Contract #2: "Smith shall give Jones $100 today, and Jones shall give Smith $110 in one year. Smith may unilaterally void the contract." Contract #3: "Smith shall give Jones $100 today, and Jones shall give...

    Last Post By: r3volution 3.0 12-14-2017, 09:10 PM Go to last post
  • Follow us on Twitter! Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our top news RSS Feed! New! Subscribe to us on YouTube!