• Feds announce final e-cigarette rule that nearly bans them

    Electronic cigarettes and premium cigars will now be regulated the same way as tobacco cigarettes and regular cigars, according to a new federal rule issued on Thursday.

    Under the rule, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration would have to approve all tobacco products not currently regulated that hit stores after February 2007. The e-cigarette industry was virtually non-existent before then.

    Premium, hand-rolled cigars would also be included in the new regulation.This final rule also prohibits the sale of "covered tobacco products" to individuals under the age of 18 and requires the display of health warnings on cigarette tobacco, roll-your own tobacco, and covered tobacco product packages and in advertisements.

    The Tobacco Control Act of 2009 sets February 15, 2007, as the latest date by which all tobacco products would have to have to be grandfathered in. Mitch Zeller, head of the FDA's Center for Tobacco Products, has said publicly that he couldn't choose a later date, although industry officials disagree.

    That means nearly all every e-cigarette on the market — and every different flavor and nicotine level — would require a separate application for federal approval. Each application could cost $1 million or more, says Jeff Stier, an e-cigarette advocate with the National Center for Public Policy Research and industry officials.
    An amendment to appropriations legislation working its way through the House would change the date so more e-cigarettes would be grandfathered in.

    The proposed rule was released more than two years ago in April 2014 and the final rule gives the industry two additional years to comply. The industry will have had "plenty of time to submit their applications," says Robin Koval, CEO of the Truth Initiative, an anti-tobacco health group.

    Koval says "it's perfectly reasonable" that people should know what's in something that "you inhale into your lungs."
    Industry experts say treating e-cigarettes, which don't contain tobacco, the same as cigarettes could lead to such onerous and costly approval that all but the largest tobacco companies would be forced out of the market — and possibly those companies too.(Cui bono-Who helped write the legislation? p4p)
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...them/83951786/


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    Comments 64 Comments
    1. presence's Avatar
      presence -
      Each application could cost $1 million
      []
      all but the largest tobacco companies would be forced out of the market
      just like EVERY other industry
    1. tod evans's Avatar
      tod evans -
      So how many more days do those of us who vape have to order juice?
    1. younglibertarian's Avatar
      younglibertarian -
      Sickening. Will this government intrusion ever end?

      Funny how members of the US military can buy cigs for 10-20% lower prices and no taxes in the oversea bases.

      Then again hypocrisy has always been rampant.
    1. younglibertarian's Avatar
      younglibertarian -
      Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
      So how many more days do those of us who vape have to order juice?
      Better fill up some 50 gallon barrels.
    1. tod evans's Avatar
      tod evans -
      Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
      Better fill up some 50 gallon barrels.
      I'll go back to smoking a pipe.........
    1. tod evans's Avatar
      tod evans -
      Live blog about this;

      https://vaping.com/deeming-live-blog/
    1. ZENemy's Avatar
      ZENemy -
      Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
      Sickening. Will this government intrusion ever end?

      .
      NO! It wont. As long as it exist it will only intrude, that is its only function.
    1. wizardwatson's Avatar
      wizardwatson -
      It was only a matter of time.

      Big tobacco is losing customers and Uncle Sam is losing tax revenue. You'll still be able to get them. It will just be the same price as tobacco.

      The cheapness is the biggest incentive to switch, really, so when they do this more people will die as a result.

      All to save the children of course.
    1. wizardwatson's Avatar
      wizardwatson -
      I'm confused about enforcement on manufacturers. Can anyone point me to a confirmation?

      It says the "new rules" take effect in 90 days (not selling to minors, etc.). But that manufacturers have two years to sell their products and then an additional year while FDA approves license. But elsewhere it says this "rule" was instituted in April of 2014.

      So are manufacturers at the end of the two year deadline for submitting an application or is that just starting and thus potentially 2 more years of relatively cheap juice? Confused.
    1. LibertyEagle's Avatar
      LibertyEagle -
      An amendment to appropriations legislation working its way through the House would change the date so more e-cigarettes would be grandfathered in.
      This was in the article too. So, it wouldn't hurt to send a letter to your congressman.
    1. Anti Federalist's Avatar
      Anti Federalist -
      according to a new federal rule issued on Thursday.
      No vote.

      No representation.

      No debate.

      No "checks and balances".

      Just a rule, a fatwa, a dictate, that you will comply with or woe betide you Mundane.

      Do you know what a government that rules by un-representative dictates is called?

      A dictatorship.

      Had enough yet slaves?

      HAHHAHAHAHAHAH, what the $#@! am I talking about???

      The slaves want and enjoy this.

      They want more.

      $#@! this place...burn it all.
    1. tod evans's Avatar
      tod evans -
      Now, now AF........

      Don't you care about the children?
    1. wizardwatson's Avatar
      wizardwatson -
      Ok, it does look like manufacturers are being given two years to comply. And then another year of being allowed to sell while the FDA approves/reviews.

      So not quite the doomsday I thought. The 90 day implementation is for the "have to be 18" rule, essentially.

      Still an industry killer, but our masters are giving a little lube concession while the screw us.

      This is official FDA press release. With many references to the poor children of course.

      Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration finalized a rule extending its authority to all tobacco products, including e-cigarettes, cigars, hookah tobacco and pipe tobacco, among others. This historic rule helps implement the bipartisan Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act of 2009 and allows the FDA to improve public health and protect future generations from the dangers of tobacco use through a variety of steps, including restricting the sale of these tobacco products to minors nationwide.

      “We have more to do to help protect Americans from the dangers of tobacco and nicotine, especially our youth. As cigarette smoking among those under 18 has fallen, the use of other nicotine products, including e-cigarettes, has taken a drastic leap. All of this is creating a new generation of Americans who are at risk of addiction,” said HHS Secretary Sylvia Burwell. “Today’s announcement is an important step in the fight for a tobacco-free generation – it will help us catch up with changes in the marketplace, put into place rules that protect our kids and give adults information they need to make informed decisions.”

      Tobacco use is a significant public health threat. In fact, smoking is the leading cause of preventable disease and death in the United States and responsible for 480,000 deaths per year. While there has been a significant decline in the use of traditional cigarettes among youth over the past decade, their use of other tobacco products continues to climb. A recent survey supported by the FDA and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows current e-cigarette use among high school students has skyrocketed from 1.5 percent in 2011 to 16 percent in 2015 (an over 900 percent increase) and hookah use has risen significantly. In 2015, 3 million middle and high school students were current e-cigarette users, and data showed high school boys smoked cigars at about the same rate as cigarettes. Additionally, a joint study by the FDA and the National Institutes of Health shows that in 2013-2014, nearly 80 percent of current youth tobacco users reported using a flavored tobacco product in the past 30 days – with the availability of appealing flavors consistently cited as a reason for use.

      Before today, there was no federal law prohibiting retailers from selling e-cigarettes, hookah tobacco or cigars to people under age 18. Today’s rule changes that with provisions aimed at restricting youth access, which go into effect in 90 days, including:

      Not allowing products to be sold to persons under the age of 18 years (both in person and online);
      Requiring age verification by photo ID;
      Not allowing the selling of covered tobacco products in vending machines (unless in an adult-only facility); and
      Not allowing the distribution of free samples.
      The actions being taken today will help the FDA prevent misleading claims by tobacco product manufacturers, evaluate the ingredients of tobacco products and how they are made, as well as communicate their potential risks.
      Today’s rule also requires manufacturers of all newly-regulated products, to show that the products meet the applicable public health standard set forth in the law and receive marketing authorization from the FDA, unless the product was on the market as of Feb. 15, 2007. The tobacco product review process gives the agency the ability to evaluate important factors such as ingredients, product design and health risks, as well as their appeal to youth and non-users.

      Under staggered timelines, the FDA expects that manufacturers will continue selling their products for up to two years while they submit – and an additional year while the FDA reviews – a new tobacco product application. The FDA will issue an order granting marketing authorization where appropriate; otherwise, the product will face FDA enforcement.

      For decades, the federal government and the public health community have fought to protect people from the dangers of tobacco use. Since the first Surgeon General’s report on Smoking and Health in 1964, which warned Americans about the risks associated with smoking, significant progress has been made to reduce smoking rates among Americans. In fact, tobacco prevention and control efforts have saved at least 8 million lives in the last 50 years, according to the 2014 Surgeon General’s Report on the Health Consequences of Smoking. In 2009, Congress took a historic step in the fight for public health by passing the bipartisan Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (TCA) giving the FDA authority to regulate the manufacturing, distribution and marketing of tobacco products to protect the public health.

      Today’s action marks a new chapter in the FDA’s efforts to end preventable tobacco-related disease and death and is a milestone in consumer protection.

      “As a physician, I’ve seen first-hand the devastating health effects of tobacco use,” said FDA Commissioner Robert M. Califf, M.D. “At the FDA, we must do our job under the Tobacco Control Act to reduce the harms caused by tobacco. That includes ensuring consumers have the information they need to make informed decisions about tobacco use and making sure that new tobacco products for purchase come under comprehensive FDA review.”

      Today’s actions will subject all manufacturers, importers and/or retailers of newly- regulated tobacco products to any applicable provisions, bringing them in line with other tobacco products the FDA has regulated under the TCA since 2009.

      These requirements include:

      Registering manufacturing establishments and providing product listings to the FDA;
      Reporting ingredients, and harmful and potentially harmful constituents;
      Requiring premarket review and authorization of new tobacco products by the FDA;
      Placing health warnings on product packages and advertisements; and
      Not selling modified risk tobacco products (including those described as “light,” “low,” or “mild”) unless authorized by the FDA.
      “This final rule is a foundational step that enables the FDA to regulate products young people were using at alarming rates, like e-cigarettes, cigars and hookah tobacco, that had gone largely unregulated,” said Mitch Zeller, J.D., director of the FDA’s Center for Tobacco Products. “The agency considered a number of factors in developing the rule and believes our approach is reasonable and balanced. Ultimately our job is to assess what’s happening at the population level before figuring out how to use all of the regulatory tools Congress gave the FDA.”
      To assist the newly-regulated tobacco industry in complying with the requirements being announced today, the FDA is also publishing several other regulatory documents that provide additional clarity, instructions and/or the FDA’s current thinking on issues specific to the newly-regulated products.

      The FDA, an agency within the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, protects the public health by assuring the safety, effectiveness, and security of human and veterinary drugs, vaccines and other biological products for human use, and medical devices. The agency also is responsible for the safety and security of our nation’s food supply, cosmetics, dietary supplements, products that give off electronic radiation, and for regulating tobacco products.
      For the children!
    1. Anti Federalist's Avatar
      Anti Federalist -
      Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
      Now, now AF........

      Don't you care about the children?
      I am to the point where I don't really give a frog's fat ass about any of it.

      There's no $#@!ing point in trying to talk to these people anymore, it's as pointless as trying to teach a pig to whistle: you never succeed and it only annoys the pig.
    1. GunnyFreedom's Avatar
      GunnyFreedom -
      Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
      It was only a matter of time.

      Big tobacco is losing customers and Uncle Sam is losing tax revenue. You'll still be able to get them. It will just be the same price as tobacco.

      The cheapness is the biggest incentive to switch, really, so when they do this more people will die as a result.

      All to save the children of course.
      No, it's worse than that. A lot of the smaller craft ejuice makers are hyper-aware of the chemicals they use and make an effort to avoid anything that has Diacetyl or it's precursors. The big tobacco companies who will NOT be harmed by this rule, maintain a lot less care and their juices have been found to contain high levels of Diacetyl, which leads to popcorn lung and permanent disability.

      This rule will eliminate all the safe e-juice makers leaving only the dangerous ones still on the market.
    1. dannno's Avatar
      dannno -
      The e-juice part should be easy to get around - just sell the e-juice without nicotine, and then add the nicotine yourself. Of course that means that every vaper will need to have concentrated nicotine on hand, which is potentially dangerous.
    1. phill4paul's Avatar
      phill4paul -
      Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
      No, it's worse than that. A lot of the smaller craft ejuice makers are hyper-aware of the chemicals they use and make an effort to avoid anything that has Diacetyl or it's precursors. The big tobacco companies who will NOT be harmed by this rule, maintain a lot less care and their juices have been found to contain high levels of Diacetyl, which leads to popcorn lung and permanent disability.

      This rule will eliminate all the safe e-juice makers leaving only the dangerous ones still on the market.
      The government is here to protect us!
    1. GunnyFreedom's Avatar
      GunnyFreedom -
      Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
      The government is here to protect us!
      Hooorraaaayyy for biggov! If not for biggov forcing me to choose between lung cancer and popcorn lung I wouldn't know what to do with myself!!!
    1. wizardwatson's Avatar
      wizardwatson -
      Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
      No, it's worse than that. A lot of the smaller craft ejuice makers are hyper-aware of the chemicals they use and make an effort to avoid anything that has Diacetyl or it's precursors. The big tobacco companies who will NOT be harmed by this rule, maintain a lot less care and their juices have been found to contain high levels of Diacetyl, which leads to popcorn lung and permanent disability.

      This rule will eliminate all the safe e-juice makers leaving only the dangerous ones still on the market.
      It is bad. And it's about nothing other than money.

      I'm probably just going to quit. Just glad have a couple years. I thought at first the ban was immediate.

      I've been vaping almost 3 years I think after being an on-again off-again smoker, and really the cheapness is an incentive to stay vaping. It is a crappy thing for ex-smokers as a whole, but for me, I've been on the fence anyway. Kansas is already planning to tax it anyway, and now that it's regulated like tobacco likely all 50 states will tax them like they tax cigarettes at around $6 per 30ml bottle or more.

      Anyway, just another crappy thing that makes me wish the apocalypse would hurry up and come and end this insanity.


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    Bryan

    Do you have natural rights? If so, what are the root elements of them?

    Thread Starter: Bryan

    Per the title, do you have natural rights? If so, what are they and what are the root elements of them? Most specifically, I'm interested to break down the ideas and concepts into their most fundamental pieces. For example, saying we have the right to liberty can be viewed as a right, but how can this be further quantified? How can you break this down? Does this mean you have the freedom of...

    Last Post By: r3volution 3.0 08-13-2018, 06:25 PM Go to last post
    johnwk

    QUESTION: What is a Supreme Court Justice’s fundamental job?

    Thread Starter: johnwk

    ANSWER: The primary function of a Supreme Court Justice is to be obedient to the text of our Constitution, and give effect to its documented legislative intent which gives context to its text. JWK Those who reject abiding by the intentions and beliefs under which our Constitution was agree to, as those intentions and beliefs may be documented from historical records, wish to remove the...

    Last Post By: Swordsmyth 08-12-2018, 04:43 PM Go to last post
    TommyJeff

    Tariffs by the executive? Not in the US Constitution

    Thread Starter: TommyJeff

    I’m not hearing much discussion about the trump tariffs being unconstitutional,even by the left. But this is the power of congress and not found in article 2. Are there examples of past presidents doing such a thing as it specifically relates to tariffs or is trump the first? Article I Section 8.The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to...

    Last Post By: Jamesiv1 08-12-2018, 04:41 PM Go to last post
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