Questioning People on Illegal Abortions

[jumpyg1258]

This video is priceless, shows how dumb a lot of pro-life people can be by trying to make abortions illegal.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Uk6t_tdOkwo

[Truth Warrior]

What is your position on infanticide? Why?

[Eponym_mi]

Yes, I think this video represents the views of many "pro-life" people. They have no idea what they want.:confused:

[smhbbag]

I WANT abortion to be dangerous and destructive to those performing it.

I don't care if a murderer has a great risk of dying while killing his victim. I don't care if committing the act makes them suffer tremendous pain, physically or emotionally.

To say abortion will be "back-alley" and traumatic, and have no proper medical equipment for the mother is meaningless to me.

IF abortion is murder, and I believe it is, why should I care about the plight of the murderer?

[Eponym_mi]

IF abortion is murder, and I believe it is, why should I care about the plight of the murderer?

What is the point in making something a crime without any punishment? From that perspective, the argument may as well be about jaywalking or spitting on a sidewalk.:rolleyes:

[Tdcci]

I WANT abortion to be dangerous and destructive to those performing it.

I don't care if a murderer has a great risk of dying while killing his victim. I don't care if committing the act makes them suffer tremendous pain, physically or emotionally.

To say abortion will be "back-alley" and traumatic, and have no proper medical equipment for the mother is meaningless to me.

IF abortion is murder, and I believe it is, why should I care about the plight of the murderer?

Serves as a nice deterrent, too.

[RWBlue-Travis]

That video really shows the conundrum in making abortion illegal. This is vaguely similar to the war on drugs.

Pro-Life vs Pro-Choice shouldn’t be considered opposing positions.
Discouraging abortion but respecting ones decision to abort is the only conclusion that doesn’t contradict itself.

[smhbbag]

Discouraging abortion but respecting ones decision to abort is the only conclusion that doesn’t contradict itself.

How do I contradict myself, as a staunch pro-lifer?

I believe that life begins at conception, and thus that abortion is murder. It should then be prosecuted in the same manner, with the same penalties, as any other type of murder.

What's contradictory?

[zadrock]

How do I contradict myself, as a staunch pro-lifer?

I believe that life begins at conception, and thus that abortion is murder. It should then be prosecuted in the same manner, with the same penalties, as any other type of murder.

What's contradictory?

To be honest with you, I have more respect for pro-lifers who have this opinion because it is logically consistent. But the video does give anecdotal evidence that at least some pro-lifers are hesitant to say women who do have abortions should get the death penalty (or life in prison).

Z

[zadrock]

Here's another interesting link on the choices pro-life women make when confronted with an unwanted pregnancy:

http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

Z

[Pepsi]

Why is it murder to kill the baby after its been born, but it's not murder befor it's born? And yet if somebody kill's a woman who with child they can be charg with murder of the woman and the unborn baby..

[Zarxrax]

For those that watch the video, the point of it is that a lot of the people who think abortion should be illegal said that a woman should not be punished for having an abortion. With no punishment, it's rather pointless for something to be illegal.

As for Dr. Paul's stance on this, he has stated that he thinks there should be punishment involved, though the entire issue should be left to the states to decide.

[smhbbag]

To be honest with you, I have more respect for pro-lifers who have this opinion because it is logically consistent. But the video does give anecdotal evidence that at least some pro-lifers are hesitant to say women who do have abortions should get the death penalty (or life in prison).

Many are very hesitant to say it, because it is very hard to say. Abortions are different, in some senses, than other murders. It is usually not malicious or hateful toward the victim; it simply ignores them as a person. For some, this makes it easier to sympathize with the decision to murder, and makes them hesitate to call it what it is, while still being pro-life.

I believe very strongly in Crisis Pregnancy Centers, and organizations like that run by non-profits or churches. These women do need serious help before the decision to abort is made, and pro-lifers need to back up their words by being eager to adopt those whose life is in danger.

But we, as pro-lifers, deny the unborn child's rights when we refuse to prosecute the one we know killed them. Many pro-life people are convinced by the argumentation, but they are not as personally moved, and horrified, at abortion as one normally is by other murders.

[Eponym_mi]

This is vaguely similar to the war on drugs.

Yes, I believe you're correct in the sense that many pro-lifers would only penalize the supply source (abortion provider) vs the demand source (women who ask for abortions). Yet, our national experience concerning the war on drugs has shown this only creates a lucrative blackmarket. Criminalizing the role of women in demanding abortions also makes them less likely to confess and inform on their accomplice.

My sense is that criminalizing abortion would then lead to a "War on Abortion", much like the "War on Drugs", with many people rotting in prisons and no real change in respect to society or the demand.

[zadrock]

Abortions are different, in some senses, than other murders. It is usually not malicious or hateful toward the victim; it simply ignores them as a person.

The same could be said of civilian casualties in a war. Incidentally, this is why I can't stand neocon pro-lifers. We must outlaw abortion, but endless war is fine, and the death penalty is a must. Why can't we consider the termination of an unwanted pregnancy to be "collateral damage"?

I have much more respect for Dr. Paul's all-encompassing pro-life positions, not just regarding abortion, but also regarding war and the death penalty. I find this version of the pro-life position to be much more appealing.

Z

[TurtleBurger]

If you asked people in the 19th century what the punishment should be for killing a black person or Native American, even a lot of abolitionists would have hesitated to say the punishment should be equal to that for killing a white man. Just something to think about.