President BUSH PARDON's HIMSELF against POTENTIAL WARCRIMES

[PatriotG]

This infuriates me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHQ7Prwh7Gc

[Psych0t]

Wow, just wow. Bush deserves to face the consequences of his Terror scandal

[Anthony T]

This must be really old....

[paulpwns]

dude its a power granted in the constitution

why are you against this?

[Psych0t]

It's a power meant to be used if the elected leader found someone else innocent while the courts didn't. If he truly knew he was innocent, then he wouldn't have used his pardon power on himself.

[JMann]

Why don't we not try and act like wackos and nuts and try and replace the President through the election process instead of trying to charge our President with war crimes. Seems counter productive, extreme and a waste of time.

More power to you if you think calling Bush a war criminal is going to help Paul win the Republican primary but in my view it is stuff like this that hurts Paul and prevents him from moving above 10 or 15%.

[PatriotG]

I thought the General Forum was for Open to news stories, all political discussion and whatever suits you.

The story gets a bit better,
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22794451/?GT1=10755

Save your wacko BS for some immature joker in this forum not me pal.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Wow, just wow. Bush deserves to face the consequences of his Terror scandal

Not just BUSH... ANYONE RELATED, i.e.:

NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL STAFF INVOLVED, ANYONE WHO DRAFTED LEGISLATION to PARDON BUSH/CHENNEY, ETC ANYONE WHO KNOWING PARTICIPATED IN ANY VIOLATIONS AGAINST HUMAN RIGHTS... RESPECTIVE AGENCIES and BUSH ADMINISTRATION/DEPT STAFFERS INVOLVEMENT...

PUBLIC SCUMBAG #1 Congressman DENNIS HASTERT ...BUSH/CHENNEY's BITCH #1
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/mzcmdr/3AMIGOS.jpg


PUBLIC SCUMBAG #2 Senator William Harrison "Bill" Frist, Sr. ...BUSH's BITCH#2
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/mzcmdr/BUSHFRISTOVAL.jpg

[Wendi]

Didn't "we" (the USA) just pretty much force Iraq to hang their president for "war crimes" and "crimes against humanity?"

Hey, I'm just saying...

[HOLLYWOOD]

YES the US did force the Iraqi's to TERMINATE SADDAM.

SADDAM knew too much... he was a major embarrassment to US Government.

SADDAM given BILLIONS, yes BILLIONS in US MILITARY AID

SADDAM and his GOOD TIMES & PICTURES with RUMMEY

SADDAM and his KEY to the CITY of CHICAGO

* National Security Decision Directive (NSDD) 114 of November 26, 1983, "U.S. Policy toward the Iran-Iraq War," delineating U.S. priorities: the ability to project military force in the Persian Gulf and to protect oil supplies, without reference to chemical weapons or human rights concerns.

* National Security Decision Directive (NSDD) 139 of April 5, 1984, "Measures to Improve U.S. Posture and Readiness to Respond to Developments in the Iran-Iraq War," focusing again on increased access for U.S. military forces in the Persian Gulf and enhanced intelligence-gathering capabilities. The directive calls for "unambiguous" condemnation of chemical weapons use, without naming Iraq, but places "equal stress" on protecting Iraq from Iran's "ruthless and inhumane tactics." The directive orders preparation of "a plan of action designed to avert an Iraqi collapse."

Chemical Warfare ingredients provided to Iraq...Saddam Hussein's brutal reign was made by the USA. He worked for the CIA before be became politically prominent in Iraq. He was one of America's closet Mideast allies during the 1980s, and received substantial US military and financial aid.

there's more... but the NEOCONS want this BURIED

[constituent]

like those were his only war crimes... gimme a fuggin' break.

he's goin' down, try as he might to prevent it.

we'll see him in orange yet, fear not.

... btw, isn't this old, like... real old news?

[HOLLYWOOD]

like those were his only war crimes... gimme a fuggin' break.

he's goin' down, try as he might to prevent it.

we'll see him in orange yet, fear not.

... btw, isn't this old, like... real old news?

Bumping this because the FISA and spying debates are going on in CONGRESS right now

[Kade]

The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.

-Thomas Jefferson

I hope you don't think Thomas Jefferson, third President of the United States, author of the Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom, author of the Declaration of Independence, and founder of the University of Virginia said that. Or do you?

[2young2vote]

I don't know for a fact but i think i have read somewhere that the president cannot pardon himself.

[Kade]

I don't know for a fact but i think i have read somewhere that the president cannot pardon himself.

Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution:

"The President ... shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment."



Originally, (because that is what we care about) the reason for section 2 revolved around possible insurrection in the country.

Hamilton himself stated: "... in seasons of insurrection or rebellion, there are often critical moments, when a well-timed offer of pardon to the insurgents or rebels may restore the tranquility of the commonwealth."

Although this was the intent, it was also decided that this power lay solely with "a single man of prudence and good sense is better fitted, in delicate conjunctures, to balance the motives which may plead for and against the remission of the punishment, than any numerous body..." (From the Federalist Papers)



Short answer: The President can pardon himself. There are no limits to the Presidential power of pardon, except impeachment.

[Ira Aten]

The President can pardon himself. There are no limits to the Presidential power of pardon, except impeachment.


Well, there may be a problem with that theory, since the acts are described as felonies and one punishment is death. Impeachment only allows for removal from office.

How do you square a sentence of death for a non-President, and only removal from office, for a President? In other words, if the President pulls out a pistol and shoots the speaker of the House, do you seriously believe the President could then issue a pardon for himself for shooting the House Speaker?

If so, then a President could simply walk down the street shooting just about eveyone in America, as long as he had a pen and a piece of paper, until such time as the Congress of the United States held hearings, and the Senate voted for his removal.

Do you seriously contend that to be the case?

[Kade]

Well, there may be a problem with that theory, since the acts are described as felonies and one punishment is death. Impeachment only allows for removal from office.

How do you square a sentence of death for a non-President, and only removal from office, for a President? In other words, if the President pulls out a pistol and shoots the speaker of the House, do you seriously believe the President could then issue a pardon for himself for shooting the House Speaker?

If so, then a President could simply walk down the street shooting just about eveyone in America, as long as he had a pen and a piece of paper, until such time as the Congress of the United States held hearings, and the Senate voted for his removal.

Do you seriously contend that to be the case?


Actually, yes. He would be impeached, and if impeached he cannot Pardon himself... any sort of criminal activity of that level will insure that Congress will impeach him... I don't think that thought experiment holds butter.

Also, the pardon process takes time as well... he cannot just issue a wave of the hand to let himself out of jail. He is not above the law. He will be arrested, or shot, for shooting people in the street.

[Theocrat]

This infuriates me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHQ7Prwh7Gc

If you think that's bad, check this (http://www.theamericanview.com/index.php?id=991&PHPSESSID=433cd733fdd4aa2e5f378ed1f7df0c53) out.

[Computer]

Watch "Why We Fight". Cheney, because of his ties the the industrial component of the miltary-industrial complex, has seen his net worth skyrocket from apprx. $1 million prior to the Iraq debacle, to over $70 million now.

[Computer]

Our government has been subverted and the people are being fleeced.

[HOLLYWOOD]

I think it's time to "Round up the Village People, Pitch-Forks, & Torches" and run Frankenstein, Dracula, and the rest of the WAR CRIMES KLAN out of Washington DC and behind BARS... FOREVER!
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/mzcmdr/grampherman.gif

[VoteForRonPaul]

This is unbelievable! :mad:

[IPSecure]

Would you expect any less?

[Dieseler]

Well, there may be a problem with that theory, since the acts are described as felonies and one punishment is death. Impeachment only allows for removal from office.

How do you square a sentence of death for a non-President, and only removal from office, for a President? In other words, if the President pulls out a pistol and shoots the speaker of the House, do you seriously believe the President could then issue a pardon for himself for shooting the House Speaker?

If so, then a President could simply walk down the street shooting just about eveyone in America, as long as he had a pen and a piece of paper, until such time as the Congress of the United States held hearings, and the Senate voted for his removal.

Do you seriously contend that to be the case?

I think thats about what Dick Cheney and his big constitutional lawyer thinks and they have done pretty darn good with the idea this time around.
Watch Frontline - Cheneys War on Google.

[Chabsfromcanada]

Bush and Cheney will soon have libraries and statues in their name. As they should, good ol American boys. Who would ever want to charge these guys with a war crime? They did a great job. Just ask them.

[VoteForRonPaul]

Did this piece of legislation already passed or not yet?