Why do illegals screech "racism" if they're not a race?

[ChooseLiberty]

Other than that's what their "worker's party" organizers tell them to do.

First - there are illegals of every "race" as noted in anthropology texts.

Second - most Mexicans are a mish mash of races and not a single "race".

Someone should fill them in.

"la raza" my azza.

[PennCustom4RP]

Claiming 'Racism' is the 'last resort' argument that the illegals have, albeit a weak one, as to why they should be allowed to stay here. If we try to prevent them from coming, it must be a 'We don't want (insert race here) issue'
The same is true for most things that Sharpton and Jackson and those of their ilk like to latch onto, nothing really newsworthy, but becomes blasted all over the media if the issue involves 'someone other than white' and someone who is.

[lucius]

Other than that's what their "worker's party" organizers tell them to do.

First - there are illegals of every "race" as noted in anthropology texts.

Second - most Mexicans are a mish mash of races and not a single "race".

Someone should fill them in.

"la raza" my azza.

Just like Orwell, rewriting history. For example, I bet this part is left out of ‘Students remember Cesar Chavez through performance, march’. Cesar Chavez, who is remembered for his work in support of American farm laborers, vigorously opposed illegal immigration into the U.S. from Mexico. Chavez did this because he knew that Mexican laborers, poor as they were, would seriously threaten the economic gains he and his United Farm Workers' Union had won for American farm laborers. In 1979, Chavez testified to Congress:

“… when the farm workers strike and their strike is successful, the employers go to Mexico and have unlimited, unrestricted use of illegal alien strikebreakers to break the strike. And, for over 30 years, the Immigration and Naturalization Service has looked the other way and assisted in the strikebreaking. I do not remember one single instance in 30 years where the Immigration service has removed strikebreakers. … The employers use professional smugglers to recruit and transport human contraband across the Mexican border for the specific act of strikebreaking…”

Why do we have to be the safety valve for economically oppressed third world countries? Because it’s a tool of CFR directed transnational corporate globalization, provides relief in third world countries while fomenting class warfare here. I live in South Texas; Americans need to wake-up about the detriments of illegal immigration. My Hispanic friends, some who are first generation from Mexico and are now citizens, hate illegal immigration and illegal aliens, but they went through the proper procedures, learned English as well and are now very successful professionals.

Here is the article I speak of, look, training as well:

"Students remember Cesar Chavez through performance, march
By: Olga Munoz

March 28, 2007

About 50 students saw a performance in the Bidwell Bowl Amphitheatre Wednesday night and then marched to City Plaza to remember Cesar Chávez.

Amanda Cumbow of Living Voices, a theater company in Seattle, Wash., performed a monologue about a woman who participated in the Farm Workers' movement, a movement Chávez helped start.

Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan organized the event and the march to educate people about Chávez and the conditions farm workers had to endure in the 1960s, said Doris Cruz, director of political affairs for MEChA.

"A lot of people don't know how they lived and that they were discriminated against for being migrants," she said.

Farm workers were paid about $1.50 an hour and were exposed to dangerous pesticides that are now banned in fields, Cumbow said during the monologue.

Chavez worked to improve working conditions and founded the United Farms Workers. He also got "el cortito," a short hoe, banned from farms. The tool's length forced workers to bend over while they cut unwanted weeds, said Susan Green, MEChA's adviser.

Junior John Walker, a Re-entry student, was a teenager during the Farm Workers' Movement. He did not understand the United Farm Workers' strikes and boycotts at the time, but he understands now, he said.

Walker was at tonight's event.

"I just think it's a tragedy that people have to work in those conditions," he said.

Walker knew about Chávez before the monologue, but he said he wants to learn more because Chávez put his life on the line for his work, Walker said.

To educate others about Chávez and his work, MEChA will visit seven schools in Chico on Friday. Non-MEChA members are encouraged to participate. Those who want to participate must attend a training session in the Multicultural Center Thursday at 7 p.m."

[Carbine556]

Here's my take.

"Racist" is quite a powerful word to use on some people. These people will go to great lengths to prove to themselves and others that they are not "racist". Even by doing something that they would normally find morally reprehensible. The word "racist" is meant to stop all debate from your opponents. It's only used when someone doesn't have a different, more intelligent contribution to the debate at hand.

Basically, when all intelligence and credibility for your position has been squandered, call your opponents "racist". It's the "Hail Mary" of debate.:D

[Buzz]

"Why do illegals screech "racism" if they're not a race?"

Because it's the most effective red herring they can think of to avoid having to defend their criminal acts.

[james1906]

racist is the most overused word in america

[Capitalism]

It's still not as silly as whining about immigrants hurting one's "culture" as if that's a solid basis for creating legislation.

[Tsoman]

immigration is an issue of laws and numbers.

[Wendi]

It's still not as silly as whining about immigrants hurting one's "culture" as if that's a solid basis for creating legislation.

But it's ten times sillier than failing to comprehend that we are discussing ILLEGAL immigrants, not immigrants in general. :rolleyes:

[Capitalism]

But it's ten times sillier than failing to comprehend that we are discussing ILLEGAL immigrants, not immigrants in general. :rolleyes:

One of the reasons immigration has been made ILLEGAL throughout history is because people are afraid of their precious culture being affected.

[tati4freedom]

"Capitalism" is the same troll that was trying to start sh*t on another thread about this issue. Just write him off for what he is...nothing.

[angelatc]

I personally think it's bizarre to hear a group called La Raza accuse the melting pot that is America of racism.

Actually, I think it's bizarre that some people actually take them seriously when they say it.

[ChooseLiberty]

It's interesting commentary on the bizarre state the American's mind has reached when one group can call it's advocacy organization "THE RACE", while if people from the majority white population started something similar they would immediately be attacked by the Federal gov't, ADL, ACLU, etc.

Ever look around a college campus - there are "student unions" for every ethnic special interest group you can think of except Caucasian.

The American frog is in the pot and the water is almost boiling.



I personally think it's bizarre to hear a group called La Raza accuse the melting pot that is America of racism.

Actually, I think it's bizarre that some people actually take them seriously when they say it.

[ChooseLiberty]

There seem to be a few = trolls = like that on the board now. Too bad there's no rating function.


"Capitalism" is the same troll that was trying to start sh*t on another thread about this issue. Just write him off for what he is...nothing.

[hard@work]

Isn't a better question for discussion: how can we get past race when it comes to illegal immigration? Isn't the real problem for our nation how to have this discussion without allowing racism, bigotry, or prejudice to show itself? If the problem with illegal immigration is our inability to support, assimilate, and sustain such an influx of low income residents then how do we control the conversation in a way that does not allow debate based on ethnicity?

[hard@work]

It's still not as silly as whining about immigrants hurting one's "culture" as if that's a solid basis for creating legislation.

I know you're a troll but I did want to comment on this. Worrying about culture is a very legitimate cause for concern for any people. It does not mean that the effects of cultural change are wrong, there are many good cultural changes in history (sufferance was a great idea). However disrespecting concern over cultural change is ignorance really. As far as not being able to address the cultural effects in a manner that proves that it is "silly" that is. And to categorize concerns that at best for your position are xenophobic hardly makes them "whining". And ultimately cultural changes are not necessarily healthy either.

[PennCustom4RP]

Isn't a better question for discussion: how can we get past race when it comes to illegal immigration? Isn't the real problem for our nation how to have this discussion without allowing racism, bigotry, or prejudice to show itself? If the problem with illegal immigration is our inability to support, assimilate, and sustain such an influx of low income residents then how do we control the conversation in a way that does not allow debate based on ethnicity?

Isn't this statement answered by this one from same poster?


Worrying about culture is a very legitimate cause for concern for any people. It does not mean that the effects of cultural change are wrong, there are many good cultural changes in history (sufferance was a great idea). However disrespecting concern over cultural change is ignorance really. As far as not being able to address the cultural effects in a manner that proves that it is "silly" that is. And to categorize concerns that at best for your position are xenophobic hardly makes them "whining". And ultimately cultural changes are not necessarily healthy either.


Just a thought

[hard@work]

Isn't this statement answered by this one from same poster?


Sorry can you clarify a bit?

:)

[PennCustom4RP]

Sorry can you clarify a bit?

:)

Ok, hows this, I'll use the 1st sentence from each of your posts.:


How can we get past race when it comes to illegal immigration?

Worrying about culture is a very legitimate cause for concern for any people.

3rd sentence from each.


If the problem with illegal immigration is our inability to support, assimilate, and sustain such an influx of low income residents then how do we control the conversation in a way that does not allow debate based on ethnicity.

However disrespecting concern over cultural change is ignorance really.

Why I said your 1st post was answered by the 2nd was because the majority of illegal immigrants are from Mexico, and are of a different culture and race than the majority of Americans are.

[hard@work]

Hmmm I'm not sure if I agree with myself.

;-)

Thanks for the clarification.

[tati4freedom]

It's not racism, it's geography. We are literally sitting on top of Mexico, so, yes, the majority of illegal immigrants are from Mexico, it just makes sense. Racism is saying we hate Mexicans. We have a policy of welcoming in 180,000 Mexican immigrants a year. Happy to have them here. Not happy to have 40 million others come over whenever they take a fancy, not happy to pay taxes to support them...You know who is thrilled? The Mexican government, because they get to get rid of their lowest class, including their criminals. It's like when San Francisco "cleaned up" their homeless population by kicking them over the Bay into Oakland. You better believe that happened when Willie Brown was mayor. Same idea.

[ChooseLiberty]

The Mexicans learned it from Castro - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariel_boatlift



It's not racism, it's geography. We are literally sitting on top of Mexico, so, yes, the majority of illegal immigrants are from Mexico, it just makes sense. Racism is saying we hate Mexicans. We have a policy of welcoming in 180,000 Mexican immigrants a year. Happy to have them here. Not happy to have 40 million others come over whenever they take a fancy, not happy to pay taxes to support them...You know who is thrilled? The Mexican government, because they get to get rid of their lowest class, including their criminals. It's like when San Francisco "cleaned up" their homeless population by kicking them over the Bay into Oakland. You better believe that happened when Willie Brown was mayor. Same idea.

[Capitalism]

I know you're a troll but I did want to comment on this. Worrying about culture is a very legitimate cause for concern for any people. It does not mean that the effects of cultural change are wrong, there are many good cultural changes in history (sufferance was a great idea). However disrespecting concern over cultural change is ignorance really. As far as not being able to address the cultural effects in a manner that proves that it is "silly" that is. And to categorize concerns that at best for your position are xenophobic hardly makes them "whining". And ultimately cultural changes are not necessarily healthy either.

Perhaps the government should appoint a culture czar.

[freelance]

Because they've been instructed to do so and because they can! Rather than hold a genuine, civilized discussion of race, it remains untouchable.

[cjhowe]

Not a race? How do you distinguish between races? Race is a social construct, not a scientific one. The 2000 census data shows that racial inclusion is based on a sense of belonging. Half of Hispanics reported being white, half of Hispanics reported "Other". Those that were second generation and farther U.S. citizen where much more likely to claim white as their race.

At one time Irish was considered a separate race from other whites, by other whites. Race has been based on several distinctions in the past. Color of skin, language origin, or hair color even have all been used and are just a means to dehumanize a group of people. The fact that the term "illegals" is meant to only encompass people who immigrate to our country against our laws and not to everyone who violate our laws, shows our propensity to debase people and to be prejudice against people, instead of being prejudiced against actions.

[literatim]

Not a race? How do you distinguish between races? Race is a social construct, not a scientific one. The 2000 census data shows that racial inclusion is based on a sense of belonging. Half of Hispanics reported being white, half of Hispanics reported "Other". Those that were second generation and farther U.S. citizen where much more likely to claim white as their race.

Not true. There are clear distinctions between those of the Mongoloid, Causcoid, and Negroid genotypes. Skull shape being the most prevalent, but also in hormonal levels and diseases. If a doctor does not know the race of the patient, he could seriously screw up by giving the wrong diagnosis to a disease and the wrong medicine to cure it.

The reason 'Hispanic' is split is because 'Hispanic' means an origin of Spanish speaking people.

[PennCustom4RP]

Not a race? How do you distinguish between races? Race is a social construct, not a scientific one.

Race is most certainly a scientific construct.

Take this example, a black kid is raised entirely by whites, has no knowledge of black culture, no black friends, no black society, is he now white? Of course not, he is still black. The society he was reared in did not change his race.

Language on the other hand is a Social Construct.

Hispanic/Latino is based on Language, so technically, any who speaks any Latin based language, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, etc... could be considered Hispanic/Latino, be this a White European Spaniard, a Mexican, or a Black man from Costa Rica.
Mexican is a Nationality, not a Race. Mexicans( as are many South American peoples) are the result of mixing White European Spaniards and indigenous peoples found there.

Is a black man in Aruba (former Dutch colony) the same race as the Dutchman from Amsterdam, just because they both Speak Dutch? No, he is a descendant of an African immigrant(be it forced migration) and the man in the Netherlands is a European white man.

Their Language may be the same, but their races are certainly different.
Even if the Language does change, their races will not.

[cjhowe]

Not true. There are clear distinctions between those of the Mongoloid, Causcoid, and Negroid genotypes. Skull shape being the most prevalent, but also in hormonal levels and diseases. If a doctor does not know the race of the patient, he could seriously screw up by giving the wrong diagnosis to a disease and the wrong medicine to cure it.

The reason 'Hispanic' is split is because 'Hispanic' means an origin of Spanish speaking people.

Wow, I didn't realize biological anthropology developed a time machine so that they could construct a word and its popular use before their sciences even existed. Anthropology has taken the existing racial social construct and attempted to fit human variation within it. Some biological anthropologists attempt to give support to the notion that race may have a biological component through comparative analysis of populations. This viewpoint has been largely discredited because the distinctions are largely arbitrary, crude and inconsistent. There are much better and meaningful ways of looking at human variation than through race.

[cjhowe]

Race is most certainly a scientific construct.

Take this example, a black kid is raised entirely by whites, has no knowledge of black culture, no black friends, no black society, is he now white? Of course not, he is still black. The society he was reared in did not change his race. <snip>


Was that ever ignorant. The social construct of race is about your ancestry's language origins, not the individual's.

[PennCustom4RP]

Was that ever ignorant. The social construct of race is about your ancestry's language origins, not the individual's.

Chris...You have no idea as to what you're talking about.
Just more of your dreamworld.

[cjhowe]

Chris...You have no idea as to what you're talking about.
Just more of your dreamworld.

Is that going to be your argument for everything? Race is not a scientific construct, in any sense of the imagination. The attempt to make it one is an oversimplification and erroneous sampling of clines.

Hispanics have a point in calling much of the rhetoric around this topic racism. You don't view them as whites and therefore they are a different race to you. This is abundantly clear when you talk about having to wait in hospitals. Because there are browns ahead of you in line, you complain about illegals. There is absolutely no way you could know their alien status waiting in line in a hospital or clinic.

I personally wouldn't call it racism, as it is an oversimplification. It is however hate, prejudice and ignorance. The discrimination against illegal immigrants is a product of the same soup as racism. Since you can't feel any sense of self worth from the lives you affect or any sense of personal responsibility for your lot in life, you claim some sort of superiority because of where you were born and use that as a basis to discriminate against others. I would feel bad for you if it wasn't for the fact that you are transgressing so horribly against others and denying them the unalienable freedoms that you demand be protected for you.

[McDermit]

when hispanics are bitching about illegal hispanic immigrants, you know there's a problem. but hey, keep your blinders on if they make you feel better. :)

[BuddyRey]

"la raza" my azza.

LOL!!!!!! We gotta get some signs printed up with that one. :D

[cjhowe]

when hispanics are bitching about illegal hispanic immigrants, you know there's a problem. but hey, keep your blinders on if they make you feel better. :)

Imagine that more parallels between the civil rights movement of the 60s and this debate. Tio Taco is the new Uncle Tom.

[Lord Xar]

One of the reasons immigration has been made ILLEGAL throughout history is because people are afraid of their precious culture being affected.

.. are you saying culture isn't precious? Also, your argument is faulty because i absolutely ABHORE illegal immigration for a number of reasons, and yes - one of them is my culture being destroyed and over-run by another. So, the snarky remark you made is rather inappropriate.

[Lord Xar]

Is that going to be your argument for everything? Race is not a scientific construct, in any sense of the imagination. The attempt to make it one is an oversimplification and erroneous sampling of clines.

Hispanics have a point in calling much of the rhetoric around this topic racism. You don't view them as whites and therefore they are a different race to you. This is abundantly clear when you talk about having to wait in hospitals. Because there are browns ahead of you in line, you complain about illegals. There is absolutely no way you could know their alien status waiting in line in a hospital or clinic.

I personally wouldn't call it racism, as it is an oversimplification. It is however hate, prejudice and ignorance. The discrimination against illegal immigrants is a product of the same soup as racism. Since you can't feel any sense of self worth from the lives you affect or any sense of personal responsibility for your lot in life, you claim some sort of superiority because of where you were born and use that as a basis to discriminate against others. I would feel bad for you if it wasn't for the fact that you are transgressing so horribly against others and denying them the unalienable freedoms that you demand be protected for you.


As usual, you are wrong. Completely wrong and it is obvious you are probably one of the "liberal bloggers' we have been hearing about. Nice try infiltrating the board, but I had you number about a month ago.

Let me set you straight. Just because "YOU" think its hate, prejudice or ignorance is of no consequence. First off, is that a statistic, a fact? Or that is that you just beating the drum of righteousness. You are WAY off the mark. I have no doubt that there are those who do infact do not want illegals here because of racial overtones, just like there are illegal immigrants who want Aztlan -- and thus racist.

I am sick and tired hearing your tired reasonings that are NOT based on anything other than you being able to twist words and sentences.

I am TOTALLY against illegal immigration, and many many many others are too and frankly, I am rather insulted that you feel this need to label. I take offense to your accusations because you are completely wrong. From a social, law, cultural, monetary, and so - I have my reasons to not want illegal immigration.

I would suggest you stop trying to manipulate the conversation like you always seem to do.

Let me explain something to you -- people can have opinions that are different from your own, and their opinions can still be valid and right.

Based on your writings, I could even suggest - though not factual, you are in the biased one. You either have white mans guilt, or you are some unattractive female blogger with nothing better to do ---

Be gone with your demogoguery... until you can actually formulate facts, and not 'evening news' opinions.

[Lord Xar]

Imagine that more parallels between the civil rights movement of the 60s and this debate. Tio Taco is the new Uncle Tom.

I am not entirely sure of your point, but if you are saying that these two groups share a common bond in civil rights is completely false and disingenuine. If that is your intention, I now know you are here to forment chaos. EVERY SINGLE BLACK PERSON I have spoke to is completely insulted to insinuate that the struggle that they endured is somehow compared to that of hispanics. This again, is a common ploy to divide and conquer.. a us vs. you mentality... I absolutely hope that is not your intention. Cause if it was, wow - you are quite disinformed and obvious in your intentions here.

Just curious. How many other forums do you visit each day and post your agenda?

[Lord Xar]

Other than that's what their "worker's party" organizers tell them to do.

First - there are illegals of every "race" as noted in anthropology texts.

Second - most Mexicans are a mish mash of races and not a single "race".

Someone should fill them in.

"la raza" my azza.


To answer our question directly. They scream racism because liberals usually do not have any sort of argument other than emotion. They know that your ONLY action to their ploys to deceive, is to vote or get active in counter protest. SO, what is the best way to divide you from that which you believe. Actually, they don't care to divest you from your opinion, they just want to make sure your opinion is not heard. They do this by labeling you with negative connotation.

So, you can have your belief, as long as you do not oppose the liberals OR raise a stance against them - they are cool. This labeling, what it does, it prevents you from being vocal or open about your opinion for fear of being labeled by your peers as a racist.

The newspapers and media are so liberally based that we hear it constantly. Folks hate illegal immigration but then they think "yeah, but I am not about hate. I am not racist, gosh maybe I shouldn't protest illegal immigration. I don't want to be labeled racist.... blah blah blah".... but liberals keep saying it over and over and over and over... that is part of the tactic. So - remove your effectiveness with a thorn, that thorn is labeling.


This idea has become SOOO engrained in our culture now, that ANY reference to a racial overtone usually shuts down debate immediately.

La Raza does this, every liberal does this.. and our resident " i can't be wrong" cjhowe does it.. Oh yeah, another liberal undertone is "they are always right!"...

So there you have it. If "peanut butter sandwich" was associated with something horrible, Liberals would be tossing that out too.

[cjhowe]

One of the reasons immigration has been made ILLEGAL throughout history is because people are afraid of their precious culture being affected.


.. are you saying culture isn't precious? Also, your argument is faulty because i absolutely ABHORE illegal immigration for a number of reasons, and yes - one of them is my culture being destroyed and over-run by another. So, the snarky remark you made is rather inappropriate.

This about sums up the tirade you go on against my posts. You state that Capitalism's argument that
*one of the reasons immigration has been made illegal is to protect our culture

is faulty because
*one of the reasons that you abhor illegal immigration is to protect our culture.

Good job.:rolleyes:

[cjhowe]

As usual, you are wrong. Completely wrong and it is obvious you are probably one of the "liberal bloggers' we have been hearing about. Nice try infiltrating the board, but I had you number about a month ago.

Let me set you straight. Just because "YOU" think its hate, prejudice or ignorance is of no consequence. First off, is that a statistic, a fact? Or that is that you just beating the drum of righteousness. You are WAY off the mark. I have no doubt that there are those who do infact do not want illegals here because of racial overtones, just like there are illegal immigrants who want Aztlan -- and thus racist.

Let me get this straight, I agree with many Hispanics that there are prejudices at the core of many people's view on illegal immigration and you agree that many people do not want illegals here because of racial overtones ...and that makes me wrong in my assertions?


I am sick and tired hearing your tired reasonings that are NOT based on anything other than you being able to twist words and sentences.

I am TOTALLY against illegal immigration, and many many many others are too and frankly, I am rather insulted that you feel this need to label. I take offense to your accusations because you are completely wrong. From a social, law, cultural, monetary, and so - I have my reasons to not want illegal immigration.

You are welcome to your reasons to not want immigration. I don't wish to take those away from you. However, I believe that I can enlighten you on how your reasoning regarding the social and monetary support for your argument is incorrect. I have never argued with what the law is on the issue of immigration, but with the social and monetary support actually lying on my side of the issue, I don't believe there is enough cultural support in your argument to support the current laws remaining where they are.


I would suggest you stop trying to manipulate the conversation like you always seem to do.

Let me explain something to you -- people can have opinions that are different from your own, and their opinions can still be valid and right.

People can have differing opinions and both of their opinions can be valid, however they cannot both be right. It is often the case, in fact, when neither is right.


Based on your writings, I could even suggest - though not factual, you are in the biased one. You either have white mans guilt, or you are some unattractive female blogger with nothing better to do ---

Be gone with your demogoguery... until you can actually formulate facts, and not 'evening news' opinions.

You are a sharp one Xar. It is white guilt, I've stated as much. I feel guilt on behalf of you and others like you, and rightfully so. There are those that I have a common ancestry with that wish to make alienable those rights of others which they feel is unalienable to themselves. I feel guilty because of this hypocrisy that is spewed from the loudest voices in the white community and it has yet to be within my power to quiet their ignorance.

[PennCustom4RP]

Is that going to be your argument for everything? Race is not a scientific construct, in any sense of the imagination. The attempt to make it one is an oversimplification and erroneous sampling of clines.

This will be my statement concerning you until you make any sort of sense.
Race most certainly is a scientific construct, to believe otherwise is ignorant and misguided.


Hispanics have a point in calling much of the rhetoric around this topic racism.
I don't know Chris, but the 2 Hispanics that I am aware, that have commented on this topic have thus far disagreed with you.


You don't view them as whites and therefore they are a different race to you.
Oh my, finally you've said something I can agree with.
They are not white, they are a mix when regarding Hispanic Mexicans, but as I've stated previously, Hispanic is a language based association.
Blacks, Asians, Native Americans are not white either, so yes they are different than my race.


This is abundantly clear when you talk about having to wait in hospitals. Because there are browns ahead of you in line, you complain about illegals. There is absolutely no way you could know their alien status waiting in line in a hospital or clinic.
How any of this is material to Race being a social or scientific construct is beyond me.

I will add this though, its not a question of 'ahead of me in line', its a matter of the overburdening of the system.
When we were evacuated for Hurricane Rita, we came back to a mass influx of Mexicans.They were here when we returned 2 weeks later. Where did they come from? Surely there wasn't some legal immigration happening all of a sudden. Legal people do not just pick up and move en mass, in a 2 week time period. Illegals do, and filled a void caused by a weather event, and they are still here clogging the system to the point where nothing can get done.



I personally wouldn't call it racism, as it is an oversimplification. It is however hate, prejudice and ignorance. The discrimination against illegal immigrants is a product of the same soup as racism. Since you can't feel any sense of self worth from the lives you affect or any sense of personal responsibility for your lot in life, you claim some sort of superiority because of where you were born and use that as a basis to discriminate against others. I would feel bad for you if it wasn't for the fact that you are transgressing so horribly against others and denying them the unalienable freedoms that you demand be protected for you.

More of your misguided assertions Chris..I challenge you to find anywhere on this forum where I have stated that I hate or that I am superior to any race, there is not a word. There are no racial slurs Chris, unlike you, who has made them.
07-29-2007, 12:17 AM...Originally Posted by cjhowe...kikes, *******, dagos, mics, gooks and now it's the spics and the sand *******<snip>
I also challenge you to find on this forum where I have said I was against legal immigration. I am against Illegal immigration, a distinction I make, but you do not.
It also appears to me that you cry hate, racism, prejudice and bigotry when anyones opinion differs from yours.

Take your 'White Guilt' ridden, hypocritical, over righteous, Troll self back under the bridge.

[cjhowe]

This will be my statement concerning you until you make any sort of sense.
Race most certainly is a scientific construct, to believe otherwise is ignorant and misguided.

Just because I'm speaking above your head, does not mean that I'm not making sense. Find out exactly what a cline is before you make any more statements on race being a scientific construct. If you sample populations in Oslo, Beijing and Nairobi, you can certainly find arguments for race having a scientific construct. However, if you walk from Oslo to Beijing, sampling populations along the way, there would be no visible boundary between one people and another.



I don't know Chris, but the 2 Hispanics that I am aware, that have commented on this topic have thus far disagreed with you.

Again, your means of sampling is disturbing.



Oh my, finally you've said something I can agree with.
They are not white, they are a mix when regarding Hispanic Mexicans, but as I've stated previously, Hispanic is a language based association.
Blacks, Asians, Native Americans are not white either, so yes they are different than my race.

Thank you for admitting that racism is possible regarding this issue. So now there are four on this thread that admit to as much. Two pro-immigration people and two anti-immigration people. We're making progress.



How any of this is material to Race being a social or scientific construct is beyond me.

My discussion regarding race and social/scientific construct was finished with the point on clines.


I will add this though, its not a question of 'ahead of me in line', its a matter of the overburdening of the system.

When we were evacuated for Hurricane Rita, we came back to a mass influx of Mexicans.They were here when we returned 2 weeks later. Where did they come from? Surely there wasn't some legal immigration happening all of a sudden. Legal people do not just pick up and move en mass, in a 2 week time period. Illegals do, and filled a void caused by a weather event, and they are still here clogging the system to the point where nothing can get done.

A person is not illegal. Their actions may be but the person, never. Being brown and in Louisiana does not mean someone is an immigrant who has broken a law. That you would suspect that, is a display of your prejudices.



More of your misguided assertions Chris..I challenge you to find anywhere on this forum where I have stated that I hate or that I am superior to any race, there is not a word. There are no racial slurs Chris, unlike you, who has made them.
I also challenge you to find on this forum where I have said I was against legal immigration. I am against Illegal immigration, a distinction I make, but you do not.

Thanks for cutting that quote to fit your agenda.

No one wants to deal with the real problems here. We just want to find a scapegoat


It also appears to me that you cry hate, racism, prejudice and bigotry when anyones opinion differs from yours.

That is certainly not true. I believe I have written about 4 distinct topics on this board. Immigration, 9/11 conspiracies theories, fallacies of Aaron Russo's film, and abortion. This is the only one that I've mentioned even to have a component of bigotry and prejudice. Even then, I've only mentioned it as a component of the issue. The rest of the immigration issue is ethics of freedom, federal government's responsibility to protect the unalienable rights of all peoples within its borders, understanding economics, role of government in protecting culture (or rather a lack of a role), and the misguided use of welfare as a safety net.


Take your 'White Guilt' ridden, hypocritical, over righteous, Troll self back under the bridge.

Thank you for those pearls.

[PennCustom4RP]

Thank you for those pearls.

You are welcome.

[Lord Xar]

Penn, you still arguing with this dude? What a complete time waste.

Btw, cjhow, your transparency is so obvious that I did not see your supposed declaration of "white guilt", yet I could identify you unerringly.

There is no doubt that you understand I have your number because in my experiences you are as common as a wall fly.

My buddy is pulled from the same cloth as you, a white guilt liberal who loves everything i hate, yet cheats on his taxes... its hilarious, he doesn't mind when everyone else pays for his beliefs. I would venture to say you are right up his alley.

Just so we are clear. You are obvious. Your declaration of your obviousness does nothing to bolster your stance. You were run off another forum I frequent and you will run off here too, eventually. I am not about censorship - but it is obvious you are not here to help. You are only here to throw up roadblocks and try to get others to validate your guilt.

See, you throw out insults and create figments of knowledge out of thin air because your best arguments are not based in fact or even real knowledge but in stiring emotion by labeling.

How about this.. do us all a favor and get over yourself. If you have this overwhelming need to get diarehhea of the mouth, just give yourself pennance - a couple lashes with a horsetail should do the trick. And save us all from your righteous wrong turn.

I just wasted 3 minutes of my life I will never get back. Thanks cjhow -- There is gonna be a minuteman rally soon. Make sure you are on the other side calling them racists and giving them the finger.

[PennCustom4RP]

Penn, you still arguing with this dude? What a complete time waste.

Btw, cjhow, your transparency is so obvious that I did not see your supposed declaration of "white guilt", yet I could identify you unerringly.

There is no doubt that you understand I have your number because in my experiences you are as common as a wall fly.

My buddy is pulled from the same cloth as you, a white guilt liberal who loves everything i hate, yet cheats on his taxes... its hilarious, he doesn't mind when everyone else pays for his beliefs. I would venture to say you are right up his alley.

Just so we are clear. You are obvious. Your declaration of your obviousness does nothing to bolster your stance. You were run off another forum I frequent and you will run off here too, eventually. I am not about censorship - but it is obvious you are not here to help. You are only here to throw up roadblocks and try to get others to validate your guilt.

See, you throw out insults and create figments of knowledge out of thin air because your best arguments are not based in fact or even real knowledge but in stiring emotion by labeling.

How about this.. do us all a favor and get over yourself. If you have this overwhelming need to get diarehhea of the mouth, just give yourself pennance - a couple lashes with a horsetail should do the trick. And save us all from your righteous wrong turn.

I just wasted 3 minutes of my life I will never get back. Thanks cjhow -- There is gonna be a minuteman rally soon. Make sure you are on the other side calling them racists and giving them the finger.

Xar, You just made my day:D

[cjhowe]

Xar,
I'm confused. Why is it that you rant about how wrong I am, but agree with everything I've said? You admit that for some, there is a racial component. This thread is about racism and how the OP doesn't think it's possible for Hispanics to be victims of racism from whites. You agree they are a separate race and that there are racial undertones to many people's position on the anti-immigration front. If you'd like to discuss the other components, I would be happy to. The other components of immigration reform are:

Drug Reform
Freedom
Responsibility of the Federal Government
Economics
Role of Government
Welfare Reform

If you actually care about this issue like you say you do, you would be willing to better understand these other components rather than harass people at your Kla...I mean Minuteman rallies. If you understood the other components of this issue, absent bigotry, I can't see a reason why one would still be anti-immigration.

However, you admit to being a protectionist, so I don't expect that you'd be willing to engage in such a discussion. You're America this and America that, but when it comes down to it, you look at the world like the French. You have every right to your opinion on that, just realize that the short term gains of protectionism comes a the cost of falling behind the rest of the world. Even IF you could somehow have your way with immigration, the problems listed above would still remain and will exacerbate.