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dblee
01-22-2008, 03:43 PM
Mcnasty (1:04:25 PM): yo
dblee (1:04:38 PM): sup
dblee (1:04:56 PM): register...to..vote...for...ron...paul!
Mcnasty (1:16:03 PM): ron jeremy?
dblee (1:16:41 PM): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaxdUPNYj2s
Mcnasty (1:17:10 PM): i got no sound here
dblee (1:17:16 PM): oh =\
dblee (1:17:22 PM): ronpaul2008.com
Mcnasty (1:25:14 PM): why ron paul
dblee (1:25:25 PM): because he's the only candidate with any respect for the constitution
Mcnasty (1:25:32 PM): lol
dblee (1:25:35 PM): and because he's written 6 books on economics
Mcnasty (1:25:36 PM): i don't vote for losers
dblee (1:25:45 PM): and actually has some clue as to what's going on
dblee (1:25:52 PM): heh. so it's a horse race then?
dblee (1:26:00 PM): you vote for the guy you think is going to win
dblee (1:26:13 PM): what will it be today, a bush or a clinton?
dblee (1:26:28 PM): he's doing fine, him and romney are the only candidates with money left
dblee (1:26:40 PM): and he came in second in NV and is about to win in louisiana today
dblee (1:27:11 PM): you should pick your candidates based on who best represents your stance on issues
Mcnasty (1:27:32 PM): lol i don't really care?
Mcnasty (1:27:36 PM): i already know who i'm voting for
dblee (1:27:42 PM): who's that?
Mcnasty (1:27:43 PM): i don't usually change
Mcnasty (1:27:44 PM): mccain
dblee (1:27:54 PM): dude, he wants to stay in iraq for another 100 years
dblee (1:28:16 PM): http://www.truveo.com/McCain-100-years-in-Iraq-would-be-fine-with-me/id/3110627689
Mcnasty (1:28:30 PM): and your point?
dblee (1:28:36 PM): my point is we can't afford it
dblee (1:28:37 PM): we're broke
dblee (1:28:41 PM): we're 9 trillion dollars in debt
dblee (1:28:46 PM): our economy is in the shitter
dblee (1:28:51 PM): the dow has dropped 1100 points in the last week
Mcnasty (1:29:00 PM): that has zero to do with the war
dblee (1:29:07 PM): that has EVERYTHING to do with the war
Mcnasty (1:29:09 PM): it has to do with american greed
dblee (1:29:14 PM): no, think about it
dblee (1:29:22 PM): we spend 1 trillion dollars in military spending overseas every year
Mcnasty (1:29:25 PM): no i see your point
Mcnasty (1:29:32 PM): but doesn't really make the diff
dblee (1:29:39 PM): in order to pay for that the federal reserve has to print more money
Mcnasty (1:29:43 PM): this drop is due to investments.
dblee (1:29:57 PM): no, it's a symptom of bad monetary policy
Mcnasty (1:30:01 PM): thats why its called the "sub prime" issue
Mcnasty (1:30:09 PM): not the "iraq war" issue
dblee (1:30:10 PM): when you keep interest rates at 1% for an extended period like greenspan did
dblee (1:30:15 PM): you flood the market with easy cash
dblee (1:30:21 PM): which leads to things like the housing bubble
dblee (1:30:31 PM): plus deregulated lending laws led to the "sub-prime" crisis
dblee (1:30:40 PM): but it's all part of the same big problem
dblee (1:30:44 PM): which is this country is freaking broke
dblee (1:30:57 PM): we have 43 TRILLION dollars in unfunded commitments for social security and medicare
dblee (1:31:05 PM): yet we're over there fighting a war we can't win
dblee (1:31:11 PM): occupying 130 countries with 700 military bases
dblee (1:31:36 PM): how are we paying for it? by printing money, which debases the currency, which increases inflation, which destabilizes the economy
Mcnasty (1:32:01 PM): sounds right
dblee (1:32:03 PM): you should care imo. especially since every penny of social security and medicare taxes that you pay now
Mcnasty (1:32:03 PM): and your point?
The screen name is not currently accepting Instant Messages.
dblee (1:32:06 PM): you should care imo. especially since every penny of social security and medicare taxes that you pay now
dblee (1:32:08 PM): you're never going to see
dblee (1:32:21 PM): my point is we're experiencing double digit real inflation this year
dblee (1:32:32 PM): and everything that your parents and you earn is going down the shitter
Mcnasty (1:32:48 PM): regardless i don't really mind
dblee (1:32:51 PM): when you're paying 6 bucks/gallon of gas and 10 dollars for a loaf of bread, you'll care.
Mcnasty (1:32:52 PM): as long as its a republican
Mcnasty (1:32:54 PM): i'm fine
dblee (1:33:08 PM): i can't stand any of the republicans
dblee (1:33:36 PM): they all have a record of spending more and more and more, the republican party is supposed to be the party of fiscal conservatism
dblee (1:33:56 PM): instead they pride themselves on stupid social issues like abortion, evolution in the classroom, and gay marriage
dblee (1:34:29 PM): and pass laws like the patriot act and homegrown terrorism act that undermine civil liberties
dblee (1:35:40 PM): do you know, that under the homegrown terrorism act, any person with a 'radical political or religious ideology' can have their right of habeus corpus revoked, be tried in secret by military tribunal, and undergo 'interrogation techniques' and ultimately executed?
dblee (1:35:58 PM): thanks to bush, we're headed towards full blown fascism all in the name of 'the war on terror'
dblee (1:37:26 PM): besides, mccain is PRO amnesty.
dblee (1:37:31 PM): deal-breaker for me.


Yeah, I lost my cool a bit. But that was just rude. This is what we're dealing with folks =\

rp4prez
01-22-2008, 03:46 PM
why are you friends with a moron? ;)

BIRDMAN4PAUL
01-22-2008, 03:47 PM
add a tl;dr line to explain what the gell you are talking about

Lord Xar
01-22-2008, 03:48 PM
well.. listen, if you can't reason with them ON things they support - ie.. war, hit them in other areas.. think of tactics..

Talk about McCains' corruption, his backroom dealings with La Raza on the Amnesty bill etc.....

skyfi
01-22-2008, 03:50 PM
Its unfortunate that you don't find out which friends are morons until you try to talk common sense to them :)

ValidusCustodiae
01-22-2008, 03:51 PM
Did I miss something? He said he doesn't care as long as it's a Republican. RON PAUL is a Republican!

armand61685
01-22-2008, 03:51 PM
Your friend sounds a little slow..

jonahtrainer
01-22-2008, 03:53 PM
dblee (1:32:32 PM): and everything that your parents and you earn is going down the shitter
Mcnasty (1:32:48 PM): regardless i don't really mind
dblee (1:32:51 PM): when you're paying 6 bucks/gallon of gas and 10 dollars for a loaf of bread, you'll care.
Mcnasty (1:32:52 PM): as long as its a republican
Mcnasty (1:32:54 PM): i'm fine
dblee (1:33:08 PM): i can't stand any of the republicans

Looks like the hit to wallet needs to get even harder. Perhaps he needs to go hungry for a couple meals .... that has a way of getting people to care.

That is one reason I'm hoping for a huge implosion in the economy. Given the economic law of the Accelerator Factor that Greenspan recently explained we just may see it before Super Tuesday, but probably not. It will be present this year.

yongrel
01-22-2008, 03:53 PM
Does your friend chew on paint chips?

yongrel
01-22-2008, 03:54 PM
Pls quote removed

No. Not funny. Not even as a joke.

Tedhunter
01-22-2008, 03:56 PM
How unfortunate. I would suggest saving your energies for someone capable of thinking.

Taco John
01-22-2008, 03:56 PM
Your friend isn't going to vote in the primaries anyway, and based on his attitude, I doubt he'll vote in the general.

Genghis Ron
01-22-2008, 03:58 PM
yea sounds like some of the kids i've tried to convince. They're all pretty complacent. At least he had heard of some of the issues. Thats a start i guess...

Elwar
01-22-2008, 04:00 PM
I had an all out e-mail debate for about 3 days in a row, long ass e-mails with point/counter-point with a friend (who also included all of her friends in the replies so we had an audience).

She was for Fred Thompson, she wouldn't budge on the war...looks like you did better at convincing your friend. She however had a day to do research so she came back on the economy with a long ass explanation using words that were far from anything she would ever bring up herself.

Eventually she gave up, said she didn't have time to keep repeating herself. I would've kept going for weeks and weeks.

Apparently Fred Thompson must've been included in the e-mail because I'm pretty sure it was the key factor in his giving up.

I don't know what to e-mail her, I'd rather keep the high road and not kick her while she's down.

Janet0116
01-22-2008, 04:00 PM
I believe you are talking with a non-voter. Don't waste your time. He's hoping other people will make his decision for him. :)

LordBucket
01-22-2008, 04:03 PM
What if instead of:



Mcnasty (1:32:52 PM): as long as its a republican
Mcnasty (1:32:54 PM): i'm fine
dblee (1:33:08 PM): i can't stand any of the republicans


...it had gone...

Mcnasty: as long as its a republican
Mcnasty: i'm fine
Dblee: Cool. Then you've LOVE Ron Paul. He is absolutely the most loyal and dedicated Republican out there.
Mcnasty: what do you mean?
Dblee: He's been a Republican for over thirty years and he's the only conservative running
Mcnasty: I heard he ran as a libertarian a few years back.
Dblee: Hehhee...yeah, but he stayed registered as a REPUBLICAN when he did!
Dblee: Is that cool or what? Ron Paul is the mega Republican. You gotta love the guy.




Mcnasty (1:32:52 PM): as long as its a republican
Mcnasty (1:32:54 PM): i'm fine
dblee (1:33:08 PM): i can't stand any of the republicans


When somebody tells you what's important to them, telling them you believe exactly the opposite is not going to win them over. Instead...when you find out what they care about, appeal to it. tell them why Ron Paul is exactly the thing that they care about.

dblee
01-22-2008, 04:10 PM
haha yes, i know. however, in knowing he was probably an apathetic non-voter i didn't care as much. also, i have known this guy for YEARS and it's just the way we talk to each other.

he ended up admitting he didn't really know a whole lot about the candidates, and i moved in for the kill.

"you don't have to support ron paul, in the end it doesn't matter to me. but at least know why you're NOT voting for him. imo he's the only REAL republican in the race."

EvilEngineer
01-22-2008, 04:11 PM
just make sure he is either tied to his bed during the day of primaries or election... or super glue his doors and windows shut.

LordBucket
01-22-2008, 04:13 PM
I had an all out e-mail debate for about 3 days in a row
long ass e-mails with point/counter-point


Facts will never convince anybody. People resent being wrong about things. Don't try to tell them that they are. Even if they know you're right, they'll still resist. There are lots of issues. Find the ones that they agree with you on, and tell them that they're RIGHT. Agree with them. And tell them that Ron Paul agrees with them too.



she wouldn't budge on the war


Then why on earth were you talking about it?



Eventually she gave up, said she didn't have time to keep repeating herself.
I would've kept going for weeks and weeks.


And you would have been wasting all those weeks. Let's say she kept at it with you all that time. Would she have convinced you to change your views? No? Then why should you expect her to change hers?

Don't try to convince people to change their belief systems. You're wasting your time and energy. Instead, find out what they care about, and appeal to it. Find out the things they ALREADY love about Ron Paul...but just don't know that he represents. And share it with them.

AzNsOuLjAh27
01-22-2008, 04:16 PM
show him about the New World Order, the North American Union, V-chips, freedom of choice (legalization of marijuana), tell him the good stuff. Don't tell him the actual facts no one cares about that anymore. I mean look AT FOX! Do you see how good they are doing? They can get the people do anything.

Catatonic
01-22-2008, 04:21 PM
Arguing with neocons about the war is counter productive. Know your audiance, and try not to be in 'attack' mode, especially when talking with a friend.

As soon as he said the war has nothing to do with the economy, I knew this guy was clueless. The nice thing about neocon candidates is they have tons of dirt, you can easily shift the subject to Ron Paul's flawless conservative voting record and all of McCain's failures.

dblee
01-22-2008, 04:22 PM
yeah, aznsouljah.... those types of things while fascinating and interesting to us ron paul supporters are exactly the types of things that turn off casual supporters and would-be supporters because they are considered "fringe" or not mainstream


my friend is a dental student in new york and very conservative

Fields
01-22-2008, 04:23 PM
I have a friend, EXACTLY like that. It's frustrating.

LibertyEagle
01-22-2008, 04:25 PM
Don't try to convince people to change their belief systems. You're wasting your time and energy. Instead, find out what they care about, and appeal to it. Find out the things they ALREADY love about Ron Paul...but just don't know that he represents. And share it with them.

+1000

The One
01-22-2008, 04:27 PM
My Friend The Douchebag.......I nominate for best thread title ever. It's hilarious and it perfectly summarizes the post.

freelance
01-22-2008, 04:29 PM
Here's the "diff" for your friend. The diff is there's going to be one BIG ASS draft if McCain (or anyone else) wins. So, yeah, there is a "diff."

pacelli
01-22-2008, 04:39 PM
In my view you started the conversation the wrong way to win a conversion-- you started out telling him to vote for ron paul. I've noticed when canvassing that it is much more effective to have the person bring up an issue first. My "punchline" (i.e. possible END of conversation) is to encourage the person to consider voting for Ron Paul. That's after I give them information and answer questions if they have, if any. Telling someone right off the bat how to register and how to vote automatically puts them on the defensive.

nc4rp
01-22-2008, 04:45 PM
explain to him the frog in the pot analogy with his personal liberties. maybe he values that.