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Highstreet
01-22-2008, 12:03 PM
Here's the story as far as I have found:

HR 3603, Truth Accountability Bill, passed the House with a vote of 401 to 0. Then when it went to the Senate, McCain used his position to kill it in committee.

They had a Senate Select Committee on it in 1992, and he didn't want his records of his POW days to get out, so he made sure that no one would be held accountable in the bill.

The bill was supported by Sen Bob Dornan (R-Ca) and Sen Bob Smith (R-Nh). The purpose was to get any and all records of POW's in Vietnam, Korea, and others, so as to find any POW's that might still be alive. McCain didn't want that to happen because it would bring to light his records as a POW. I guess he also made quite a scene when he demanded that the records not get out as part of Vietnam's Diplomatic recognition.

Here's the video clips from this documentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBiti-ZbeO0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBiti-ZbeO0)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFM1xqqTX_g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFM1xqqTX_g)

http://www.eworldwire.com/pressreleases/18074 (http://www.eworldwire.com/pressreleases/18074)


Award Winning Documentary Shows Allegations Of McCain's Efforts To Block POW Investigations, Reports KST Communications

For Immediate Release
OROVILLE, Calif./EWORLDWIRE/Jan. 18, 2008 --- The award-winning documentary film, "Missing, Presumed Dead: The Search For America's POWs" narrated by Ed Asner backs up allegations that John McCain repeatedly thwarted attempts by U.S. Senate investigators to examine the abandonment of American POWs in Southeast Asia and North Korea.

"Missing Presumed Dead," which won two film festival "Best Documentary" awards, explores McCain's successful attempt to pass a stealth bill in the Senate which effectively keeps his POW records sealed in perpituity and provides insight into why he does not want these records ever to be made public - including the revelation of the many propaganda radio broadcasts he delivered for the North Vietnamese. The film also explains why McCain's refusal of early release from a North Vietnamese POW camp had a less than honorable motive.

The charges against McCain are revealed in the documentary by such political luminaries as former New Hampshire Senator Bob Smith; Jesse Helms' chief of staff, Dr. James Lusier; former Congressman Bob Dornan; U.S. Senate lead investigator, Tracy Usery; and author, Dr. Joseph Douglass, Jr. ("Betrayed").

This documentary goes in depth to answer some of these persistant questions:

Why were these POWs abandoned?

Are some of these POWs still alive in North Korea and Vietnam?

Is John McCain really the president we want guiding our future generations?

According to Jerry Kiley, a group leader of Vietnam Vets against McCain, Kiley says, "John McCain has created this myth that he is a hero, and he is not."

Kiley's group cites as evidence a May, 1973, U.S. News & World Report article by McCain in which McCain said he realized, on his third or fourth day of captivity after his plane was shot down in 1967, that his knee was so swollen the blood might pool in it and kill him, so he offered to give military information to his captors in exchange for medical treatment.

Consequently several military missions were compromised.

"Missing, Presumed Dead" was supported by several POW/MIA organizations who cite John McCain as one of the biggest obstacles in resolving the abandonment of America's POW/MIAs. Go to http://www.missingpresumeddead.com to learn more.

Digg the Video clip here:
http://www.digg.com/politics/John_McCain_the_Manchurian_Candidate (http://www.digg.com/politics/John_McCain_the_Manchurian_Candidate)

Here's a link to the documentary for order on dvd and vhs:
http://www.eaglecried.com/ (http://www.eaglecried.com/)

Just scroll down to the 3rd one on the list "Missing, Presumed Dead"

Rhys
01-22-2008, 12:11 PM
sweet

WilliamC
01-22-2008, 12:12 PM
But will the MSM run with it?

mjp1025
01-22-2008, 12:13 PM
I don't think it will work this time. It would be nice if it did, though

Santana28
01-22-2008, 12:15 PM
wow, this is insanity. there is a chiseled old military guy at work who thinks McCain is some sort of hero who stands up for veterans... ha! I'll have to pass this along to him. thanks!

Rhys
01-22-2008, 12:17 PM
But will the MSM run with it?

they wont have a choice if McCain really gets swiftboated. This is GREAT ammo... it worked on me. I supported McCain in 2000... NEVER would have if I'd known this.

quantized
01-22-2008, 12:17 PM
awesome. we need this to get out to the sheeps

Rhys
01-22-2008, 12:25 PM
I'm still watching! This is so great! This could sink him quicker than Huckabee replacing the Constitution with the Ten Commandments.

Rhys
01-22-2008, 12:27 PM
lol sorry to keep posting.

does someone have time to add it to this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain

dawnbt
01-22-2008, 12:28 PM
Awesome! I have forwarded this to everyone I know! Any idea when it will be aired?

Akus
01-22-2008, 12:28 PM
good.
too bad there is not a devil smile emoticon here.

Patrick Henry
01-22-2008, 12:28 PM
Here's the story as far as I have found:

HR 3603, Truth Accountability Bill, passed the House with a vote of 401 to 0. Then when it went to the Senate, McCain used his position to kill it in committee.

They had a Senate Select Committee on it in 1992, and he didn't want his records of his POW days to get out, so he made sure that no one would be held accountable in the bill.

The bill was supported by Sen Bob Dornan (R-Ca) and Sen Bob Smith (R-Nh). The purpose was to get any and all records of POW's in Vietnam, Korea, and others, so as to find any POW's that might still be alive. McCain didn't want that to happen because it would bring to light his records as a POW. I guess he also made quite a scene when he demanded that the records not get out as part of Vietnam's Diplomatic recognition.

Here's the video clips from this documentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBiti-ZbeO0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBiti-ZbeO0)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFM1xqqTX_g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFM1xqqTX_g)

http://www.eworldwire.com/pressreleases/18074 (http://www.eworldwire.com/pressreleases/18074)

Placemark

mtmedlin
01-22-2008, 12:29 PM
So now we want McCain to win. If Bloomberg gets in adn Hurts Hillaries chance of winning, then McCain takes a dump because he gets swiftboated on this stuff, it leaves teh middle and conservatives wide open.

BeFranklin
01-22-2008, 12:30 PM
Get all the information, join McCain groups, and say, just as if it was still 2000 if you supporte McCain then, well, I was thinking about supporting McCain, but I found all this information about him, and would never now..

WilliamC
01-22-2008, 12:31 PM
Am I to understand that someone is planning on running attack ads with this information?

Some....unnamed benifactor perhaps?

Highstreet
01-22-2008, 12:46 PM
Get all the information, join McCain groups, and say, just as if it was still 2000 if you supporte McCain then, well, I was thinking about supporting McCain, but I found all this information about him, and would never now..

Here's a link to the documentary for order on dvd and vhs:
http://www.eaglecried.com/ (http://www.eaglecried.com/)

Just scroll down to the 3rd one on the list "Missing, Presumed Dead"

dawnbt
01-22-2008, 12:57 PM
It appears to have come out in 2004! Why hasn't anyone seen it?

http://www.nationalfilmnetwork.com/Store/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=355&Title=Missing,%20Presumed%20Dead:%20The%20Search%2 0for%20America

Marc3579
01-22-2008, 01:00 PM
I'd say if vets have a grievance with John McCain let them handle it their way. When you stoop to that level, it leaves you a marred person. I may or may not agree with John McCain's handling of the P.O.W. M.I.A. situation, but as a civilian I have no right to try and give this story any legs. Nor, will i infiltrate a pro John McCain group and propagate this information out. It's out there, let people find it if they want.

We railed against the charge of Ron Paul being a racist, wouldn't this be doing the same to John McCain? Wouldn't we be on the same level of those whom we call "evil"? I didn't dig the youtube of this documentary, nor anything to do with this information. Because, I don't agree with the swiftboating of a candidate. It's playing dirty-pool and I'd like to believe that we as a group are above that. Are we?

pcosmar
01-22-2008, 01:05 PM
I'd say if vets have a grievance with John McCain let them handle it their way. When you stoop to that level, it leaves you a marred person. I may or may not agree with John McCain's handling of the P.O.W. M.I.A. situation, but as a civilian I have no right to try and give this story any legs. Nor, will i infiltrate a pro John McCain group and propagate this information out. It's out there, let people find it if they want.

We railed against the charge of Ron Paul being a racist, wouldn't this be doing the same to John McCain? Wouldn't we be on the same level of those whom we call "evil"? I didn't dig the youtube of this documentary, nor anything to do with this information. Because, I don't agree with the swiftboating of a candidate. It's playing dirty-pool and I'd like to believe that we as a group are above that. Are we?

I am Not.
Truth is Truth and lies are Lies.

Marc3579
01-22-2008, 01:14 PM
I am Not.
Truth is Truth and lies are Lies.

You are not what? Nice little quip. But, if you want to pick apart my reply be my guest. Just one piece of advice. Add more substance than one little line of text, you say "Truth is Truth and lies are Lies"? Okay, well with line of logic...I could just as easily do what CNN did or Jamie Kirchick did. Why don't you go ask him how this went for him?

I'm just saying this could backfire upon us. But, you go on and do this. Tell me how good you feel, and when it comes back upon us. I won't be the one to blame. Because, I played no part in this getting legs.

VonBek2000
01-22-2008, 01:30 PM
To compare the two is a bit disingenuous. While Ron Paul didn't write those newsletters even if he had it did not cause people to lose their lives and freedom.

I don't necessarily agree with swiftboating a candidate, but their past is open for scrutiny as they should all be vetted before taking office.

Menthol Patch
01-22-2008, 01:33 PM
bump

pcosmar
01-22-2008, 01:34 PM
You are not what? Nice little quip. But, if you want to pick apart my reply be my guest. Just one piece of advice. Add more substance than one little line of text, you say "Truth is Truth and lies are Lies"? Okay, well with line of logic...I could just as easily do what CNN did or Jamie Kirchick did. Why don't you go ask him how this went for him?

I'm just saying this could backfire upon us. But, you go on and do this. Tell me how good you feel, and when it comes back upon us. I won't be the one to blame. Because, I played no part in this getting legs.

The man has only gotten along this long by lies and cover ups. He has gone against the people on several issues.
GOOD RIDDANCE. Glad to help him on his way out.
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFM1xqqTX_g

jacmicwag
01-22-2008, 01:34 PM
Well, I've said it before and will say it again. I don't think swiftboating John McCain is the way to go. We can beat him fair and square without getting in the mud.

fedup100
01-22-2008, 01:35 PM
McCain doesn't want the true story of why was called "song bird" as a POW.

Marc3579
01-22-2008, 01:37 PM
The man has only gotten along this long by lies and cover ups. He has gone against the people on several issues.
GOOD RIDDANCE. Glad to help him on his way out.
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFM1xqqTX_g

This is going to help Ron Paul's campaign how? Especially by infiltrating their groups, we complain when Hillary has a plant at her rally. What exactly do you call those who infiltrate another campaigns groups and starts spreading things? Oh, that's right a "plant", or a "mole". I would strong urge others to take the higher moral road. IF this deserves "press" it will get it. I honestly see no good of us pushing this toward the media will come our way.

FireofLiberty
01-22-2008, 01:37 PM
I met the guy that did the documentary twice while down in SC last week volunteering for the campaign. On Saturday night we partied in his hotel room. Real nice guy.

pcosmar
01-22-2008, 01:37 PM
Well, I've said it before and will say it again. I don't think swiftboating John McCain is the way to go. We can beat him fair and square without getting in the mud.

It is only challenging him on the issues, And on his record.
Amnesty--Open season
First amendment--Open season
Veterans issues/War Hero?--Open season

Marc3579
01-22-2008, 01:39 PM
Or so you say it is challenging him. Let those who made the documentary air their issues with him. It's not our fight to give this any air time. We are above this, or are we? I know I am, but others on here I question...

BeFranklin
01-22-2008, 01:40 PM
We have no choice to do so if the media blacks us out. Likewise, infiltrating other camps,and suggesting Ron Paul, and so on.

This is actual war. Blacking a candidate out of the media is Un-American. Lets be Americans and use Indian tactics to get it back.

lemnad
01-22-2008, 01:42 PM
wow, this is insanity. there is a chiseled old military guy at work who thinks McCain is some sort of hero who stands up for veterans... ha! I'll have to pass this along to him. thanks!

Thats whats so sweet about the internet. It makes it a lot harder to keep secrets and a lot easier to find out the truth about people.

Thanehand
01-22-2008, 01:49 PM
CAREFUL! Some of this may or may not be true... or at the very least, people may look at it as a conspiracy theory (particularly if they are a McCain supporter) and label anyone touting it as a nut.

I highly recommend letting the MEDIA spread the word about McCain and focus on telling people about the positives for Ron Paul. I've already seen/heard this story a number of times on CNN and as McCain grows in popularity, it will show up more. There are a lot of people who like McCain less than Paul :)

BeFranklin
01-22-2008, 01:51 PM
CAREFUL! Some of this may or may not be true... or at the very least, people may look at it as a conspiracy theory (particularly if they are a McCain supporter) and label anyone touting it as a nut.

I highly recommend letting the MEDIA spread the word about McCain and focus on telling people about the positives for Ron Paul. I've already seen/heard this story a number of times on CNN and as McCain grows in popularity, it will show up more. There are a lot of people who like McCain less than Paul :)

It has to be true, however, I'm all for letting everyone know all the facts about the candidates, including the ones the media isn't telling you about.

pcosmar
01-22-2008, 01:53 PM
Show them this from the Philly Rally first.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TulcT9Sf2yk
Then let them see the POW record of McCain.
He has fought against getting our guys back.

fuzzybekool
01-22-2008, 01:55 PM
I don't think it will work this time. It would be nice if it did, though


We need to find a way to make it work including forming a pac and running 30 second and 1 minute segments from this documentary.

We need our own MoveON.org

jumpyg1258
01-22-2008, 01:59 PM
As a USAF Vet, I can't stand the guy and think he has done a lot of harm to fellow Americans while imprisioned.

ConstitutionGal
01-22-2008, 02:04 PM
We Ron Paul supporters can safely stay above the fray on this one. I just got an email message from Tennessee's chapter of Rolling Thunder and they are now spreading this McCain story far and wide. It won't be long now before the local VFWs and American Legions start picking it up, too. We can use it when talking one-on-one with people but I think it's probalby getting ready to get PLENTY of attention without RPs or us having to get heavily involved.

Marc3579
01-22-2008, 02:07 PM
We Ron Paul supporters can safely stay above the fray on this one. I just got an email message from Tennessee's chapter of Rolling Thunder and they are now spreading this McCain story far and wide. It won't be long now before the local VFWs and American Legions start picking it up, too. We can use it when talking one-on-one with people but I think it's probalby getting ready to get PLENTY of attention without RPs or us having to get heavily involved.

+1 If Rolling Thunder is getting the message spread, then we don't need to do anything except keep spreading our own message. Let the Veterans handle this, they are the ones with the grievances to air. Plus, I think it would carry more substance if Rolling Thunder and the other Veteran groups handle this.

dawnbt
01-22-2008, 02:09 PM
Why is everyone afraid of fighting fire with fire? We did not make this up! There is a full documentary on it with former and present public officials on it. I have already spread this to everyone I know and suggest everyone else do the same. It's on!

Marc3579
01-22-2008, 02:11 PM
Because, my dog isn't in this fight dawn? I feel that this issue is better handled by Rolling Thunder and other organizations. Does everyone struggle with this issue? I'm Rolling Thunder has more weight behind their name.

dvictr
01-22-2008, 02:18 PM
McCain wants to be the only POW... so he can rule the world

Kotin
01-22-2008, 02:33 PM
the msm loves mc100

tommyzDad
01-22-2008, 02:36 PM
McCain wants to be the only POW... so he can rule the world

A weird play of sorts for the sympathy vote?

dblee
01-22-2008, 02:47 PM
bump

pcosmar
01-22-2008, 02:55 PM
Swiftboating: - Exposing the lies, deceit and fraud of self-glorifying public officials or candidates for public office who exaggerate their military service by lying about their feats of heroism and combat wounds.

I thought a definition was in order.

BeFranklin
01-22-2008, 02:55 PM
Think this is more important now that Fred has dropped out.

GunnyFreedom
01-23-2008, 02:18 AM
IF this deserves "press" it will get it.

I agree that we should take the high road. But I have just got to call BS on the above sentence. Sorry. And with the media bias pro-McCain and anti-Paul, while I would strongly discourage "plants" of any kind in McCain forums, I would also greatly ENcourage any swiftboaters to go after John McCain with all guns blazing. I am a former Marine, and I can't speak his name without suppressing the urge to spit. The MSM will not carry this, so we need a 512 to do it (ala 'swiftboaters')

GunnyFreedom
01-23-2008, 02:19 AM
I just put the exact part what the origianal poster put in this thread on this John McCain forum.
http://www.topix.com/forum/who/john-mccain
It was swiftly deleted

I'm going to spam the b****rds.

Please don't. That will not help, and can only hurt. Instead, find a 512 who wants to swiftboat him, and contribute to that effort.

GunnyFreedom
01-23-2008, 02:23 AM
We have no choice to do so if the media blacks us out. Likewise, infiltrating other camps,and suggesting Ron Paul, and so on.

This is actual war. Blacking a candidate out of the media is Un-American. Lets be Americans and use Indian tactics to get it back.

But actually infiltrating a McCain forum to sow this, will only backlash against us. There are better ways to spread this, a message that I fully agree needs to be put before every American.

Paulbot_9876
01-23-2008, 02:28 AM
We railed against the charge of Ron Paul being a racist, wouldn't this be doing the same to John McCain?


not hardly......rp is not a racist or was there anyone who came out that knows rp said that he was...... you got people here documented these things about mccain....big difference......vet or not....this is about our country.....all is fair in love and war.....bring him down....

Mark
01-23-2008, 06:25 AM
I agree that we should take the high road. But I have just got to call BS on the above sentence. Sorry. And with the media bias pro-McCain and anti-Paul, while I would strongly discourage "plants" of any kind in McCain forums, I would also greatly ENcourage any swiftboaters to go after John McCain with all guns blazing. I am a former Marine, and I can't speak his name without suppressing the urge to spit. The MSM will not carry this, so we need a 512 to do it (ala 'swiftboaters')

There's no higher road than telling the truth - even if it's ugly.

GunnyFreedom
01-23-2008, 10:58 AM
There's no higher road than telling the truth - even if it's ugly.

Well, I've certainly never advocated *not* telling people, just not specifically invading a McCain forum to spread the word. Once someone has a bumper sticker on their car, you could show them irrefutable proof that their candidateis the antichrist, and all it will do is cause them to badmouth our candidate more. That's just reality.

Highstreet
01-23-2008, 08:21 PM
Well, I've certainly never advocated *not* telling people, just not specifically invading a McCain forum to spread the word. Once someone has a bumper sticker on their car, you could show them irrefutable proof that their candidateis the antichrist, and all it will do is cause them to badmouth our candidate more. That's just reality.

Yet posting this on Political forums, not specifically McCain supporting ones, would be a good idea.

Everyone is helped with more information.

I am more concerned and disturbed by his blocking of the legislation to find POWs than I am with anything that might surface from his actions in Vietnam.

GunnyFreedom
01-23-2008, 11:48 PM
Yet posting this on Political forums, not specifically McCain supporting ones, would be a good idea.

Everyone is helped with more information.

I am more concerned and disturbed by his blocking of the legislation to find POWs than I am with anything that might surface from his actions in Vietnam.

agree, agree, and agree. :)

einjun
01-23-2008, 11:52 PM
<snip>I'd say if vets have a grievance with John McCain let them handle it their way. When you stoop to that level, it leaves you a marred person. I may or may not agree with John McCain's handling of the P.O.W. M.I.A. situation, but as a civilian I have no right to try and give this story any legs. <snip>

but what about the POWs dammit? are you interested only in politics? you won't stoop so low that you won't do anything to see if some are still alive. leave it to the vets to handle it? those POWs are human beings that have been unfairly treated for some one's political ambitions ......
i can't believe you can say something like this .......

InLoveWithRon
01-24-2008, 12:07 AM
Get all the information, join McCain groups, and say, just as if it was still 2000 if you supporte McCain then, well, I was thinking about supporting McCain, but I found all this information about him, and would never now..

good one

GunnyFreedom
01-24-2008, 12:18 AM
but what about the POWs dammit? are you interested only in politics? you won't stoop so low that you won't do anything to see if some are still alive. leave it to the vets to handle it? those POWs are human beings that have been unfairly treated for some one's political ambitions ......
i can't believe you can say something like this .......

as a vet myself, I agree with you on this one. While the person you are replying to has an admirable sentiment, it is still well within you prerogative as a civilian to demand justice for our POW's. McCain has forsaken them.

CurtisLow
01-24-2008, 11:27 AM
as a vet myself, I agree with you on this one. While the person you are replying to has an admirable sentiment, it is still well within you prerogative as a civilian to demand justice for our POW's. McCain has forsaken them.

True! I'm a vet too, And the truth needs to be brought out about McCain and his disservice to America and the lies he is spreading. It makes me sick!

Wendi
01-24-2008, 11:50 AM
I don't like mudslinging political campaigns, but there are over 400 soldiers classified as POW or MIA that were never accounted for at the end of the Vietnam war. If McCain is voting against legislation that would help find the people we shamefully chose to leave behind, he is as bad as the people who sent those soldiers over there to die in the first place. :mad:

cjhowe
01-24-2008, 12:10 PM
If RP wasn't such a statesman, this could be one hell of a powder keg at tonight's debate.

RP: "I advocate a non-intervention foreign policy, this war on terror will not end until we admit what causes it"
Mitt: "Oh Ron, you're reading into their propaganda"
RP: "If you want to know about propaganda, ask Johnny over there"

jacmicwag
01-24-2008, 01:27 PM
Well I guess if you thought the swiftboating of John Kerry was fair and honorable last time out, the McCain smear will be fair politics. Last time it gave us Bush, this time we'll get Hillary.

InLoveWithRon
01-24-2008, 03:05 PM
If RP wasn't such a statesman, this could be one hell of a powder keg at tonight's debate.

RP: "I advocate a non-intervention foreign policy, this war on terror will not end until we admit what causes it"
Mitt: "Oh Ron, you're reading into their propaganda"
RP: "If you want to know about propaganda, ask Johnny over there"

+11