The current financial situation and Ron Paul.

[Menthol Patch]

I see something sad happening. I think it's possible the stock market and economy could crash. That could lead to a boost of support for Ron Paul.

What do you think?

Currently, the down in the futures market is down 631 points!

I was told in another forum that some future markets are now frozen.

DJIA INDEX 11,475.00 -631.00 12,130.00 12,140.00 11,464.00 02:31
S&P 500 1,255.30 -70.00 1,327.50 1,331.60 1,255.30 02:31
NASDAQ 100 1,744.50 -105.00 1,850.75 1,857.75 1,744.50 02:25
S&P/TSE 60 713.40 -33.50 719.40 721.60 710.20 01/21
MEX BOLSA 25,523.00 -1,440.00 25,800.00 26,160.00 25,480.00 01/21
BOVESPA 53,873.00 -3,507.00 54,200.00 54,800.00 53,500.00 01/21

[dkim68]

A boost of support for Ron Paul is not sad. ;)

But seriously, maybe everyone will start saying "Ron Paul told ya so!"

[Menthol Patch]

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/stocks/futures.html

[liberty_Forever]

Yeah, this week is going to be a Ron Paul "I told you so" moment.

Too bad the media are liars and criminals.

[TER]

Sometimes the hard times are what is needed for people to wake up and shake off complacency and apathy. Years of listening to death tolls and warfare have deadened the hearts of many of us. Maybe when their own material assets are threatened, they will wake up. Sad, but I'm afraid this is true...

[Menthol Patch]

A boost of support for Ron Paul is not sad. ;)

But seriously, maybe everyone will start saying "Ron Paul told ya so!"

A boost of support for Ron Paul is not sad, but a depression is really sad.

[morlhzd]

A moral hazard has just caught up with the world! (unfortunatly - as it is looking reallly bad out there - but it will be a "ron paul told-ya so moment")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard

"A moral hazard arises if lending institutions believe that they can make risky loans that will pay handsomely if the investment turns out well but they will not have to fully pay for losses if the investment turns out badly. Taxpayers, depositors, other creditors have often had to shoulder at least part of the burden of risky financial decisions made by lending institutions"

[Drknows]

I predict they will bounce back tomorrow. a band aid if you will.

[Menthol Patch]

Yeah, this week is going to be a Ron Paul "I told you so" moment.

Too bad the media are liars and criminals.

That is true. But have you read the "Grapes of Wrath"? A depression in modern times would be MUCH worse!

[Menthol Patch]

I predict they will bounce back tomorrow. a band aid if you will.

I hope you are right.

[Menthol Patch]

Djia Index 11,465.00 -641.00 12,130.00 12,140.00 11,458.00 02:45

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

So hopefully when Ron comes out swinging in the worst case economic scenario, how can we ensure he gets his voice raised through the MSM?

[ProfNo]

"Ron Paul told ya so!"

This is what I am telling everyone...

[billyjoeallen]

This is an opportunity if Doc plays it right, but also dangerous. The MSM are so stupid, they blame the weatherman for the weather!

RP can't be seen as exploiting a terrible loss. He needs to get pissed. I like him when he's pissed. Don't you?

[LandonCook]

You guys dont understand how things work... if something bad happens... Paul wont be glorafied. Because Hillary will stand up and declare that more Gov. control will fix it, and people will listen to her. Just like they did with FDR

[wildflower]

Sometimes the hard times are what is needed for people to wake up and shake off complacency and apathy. Years of listening to death tolls and warfare have deadened the hearts of many of us. Maybe when their own material assets are threatened, they will wake up. Sad, but I'm afraid this is true...

SO true!

[Menthol Patch]

If the FED cuts interest rates tomorrow what will happen?

Will it make things worse?

[morlhzd]

If the FED cuts interest rates tomorrow what will happen?

Will it make things worse?

If the Fed Cuts and the market tanks - things get much worse (means Fed has no more control/power)

If the Fed Cuts, props up the bond insurers - throws enough money into the markets - maybe, just maybe they'll be a bounce (but unlikly).

My bet is the Fed does nothing, and lets the markets act like free ones for a while.

[Menthol Patch]

Djia Index 11,456.00 -650.00 12,130.00 12,140.00 11,456.00 02:55

[Menthol Patch]

I'm not an expert at the stock market. However, I'm curious how low the stock market can trade tomorrow before it is automatically stopped?

[Dave Pedersen]

As dividends dwindle social security will become the principle focus on every voter's mind.

Ron Paul must make social security his main theme and we should be prepared to make it our first issue of conversation.

"My name is Ron Paul and I'm the protector of Social Security".

[SVS2K]

I'm not an expert at the stock market. However, I'm curious how low the stock market can trade tomorrow before it is automatically stopped?

1350 down = first lockdown, see the link for full info

http://www.nyse.com/press/circuit_breakers.html

[morlhzd]

I'm not an expert at the stock market. However, I'm curious how low the stock market can trade tomorrow before it is automatically stopped?

10% or so.

http://www.nyse.com/press/circuit_breakers.html

[morlhzd]

Jinx

[SVS2K]

Jinx

Urrrrrghh!!! :p

[Menthol Patch]

Can other things freeze trading?

I one time saw the market go down only a few hundred points and trading was frozen.

[morlhzd]

Can other things freeze trading?

I one time saw the market go down only a few hundred points and trading was frozen.

The Stock Exchange of India was halted earlier today.

Futures/Commodities have there own set of rules - that I'm not 100% familiar with.

Individual stocks can be halted but rare.

[morlhzd]

Can other things freeze trading?

I one time saw the market go down only a few hundred points and trading was frozen.

Currently US Futures are Lock-Limit - Needless to say - Not Good.


Lock-Limit:
A system in which prices may move only up to a certain amount in either direction in a given session. When the lock-limit is reached, the price is not permitted to move any further in that direction that day. Lock-limits are most commonly used in the futures market.

[Menthol Patch]

Currently US Futures are Lock-Limit - Needless to say - Not Good.


Lock-Limit:
A system in which prices may move only up to a certain amount in either direction in a given session. When the lock-limit is reached, the price is not permitted to move any further in that direction that day. Lock-limits are most commonly used in the futures market.

Is the DOW still locked?

[Menthol Patch]

I just saw the DOW move.

[morlhzd]

I just saw the DOW move.

I saw it move to -649.00, but not since - seemed more like a limit calculation change? But really not sure.

[Menthol Patch]

Anyone care to give their opinion on what will happen when the US stock market opens?

[lastnymleft]

I'm not an expert at the stock market. However, I'm curious how low the stock market can trade tomorrow before it is automatically stopped?


They removed some safety nets recently. The crash is going to be BIG. Quite deliberate, I believe:


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ahZh1lKYXD8w&refer=home

NYSE Eliminates Trading Curbs Dating Back to 1987 (Update1)

By Edgar Ortega
Enlarge Image/Details

Oct. 26 (Bloomberg) -- The New York Stock Exchange said it will no longer impose curbs on computer-program trading that were put in place after the crash of 1987, claiming they're no longer as effective in damping swings in prices.

The exchange will stop prohibiting brokerages from entering some program trades when the NYSE Composite Index rises or falls more than 2 percent, according to a notice sent to member firms today. The so-called collars had been in effect since 1988 and were triggered 17 times this year, according to a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

``Volatility is neither restrained nor enhanced by the imposition of the collars,'' the NYSE said in the SEC filing making the changes effective. ``The exchange is making this change since it does not appear that the approach of market volatility envisioned by the use of these collars is as meaningful today as when the rule was formalized in the late 1980s.''

The curbs applied only to some index arbitrage trades on stocks in the Standard & Poor's 500 Index executed at the Big Board. Brokerages weren't barred from turning to rival exchanges to complete those trades.

Increased electronic trading has also made arbitrage strategies a smaller piece of daily equity trading, the NYSE said in the filing. Index arbitrage strategies accounted for about 4.6 percent of the total shares bought or sold at the NYSE, according to data on its Web site.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 22.6 percent on Oct. 19, 1987, its steepest one-day decline ever, according to the Stock Trader's Almanac. At the time, some analysts and regulators said index arbitrage trades handled electronically contributed to the drop.

During the final half-hour of trading, index arbitrage strategies accounted for about 3.2 percent of trading at the NYSE, according to the presidential report on the 1987 crash. Program trading represented a total of about 12.2 percent.

Brokerages will still be required to report program trades, defined by the NYSE as the purchase or sale of a basket of at least 15 stocks valued at a minimum of $1 million.

To contact the reporter on this story: Edgar Ortega in New York at ebarrales@bloomberg.net .
Last Updated: October 26, 2007 17:27 EDT

[lastnymleft]

Anyone care to give their opinion on what will happen when the US stock market opens?

Chaos. Followed some time thereafter by periods of raining stockbrokers.



"When markets are lower, "safe haven" investments like gold usually rise in price, though that seems to be the opposite of what's happening this time, said Bob Tebbutt, vice-president of risk management at Peregrine Financial."
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hMI5j24OOrhxWM7ugVMDeJfCwDfg


My take on that: The Plunge Protection Team (ie market riggers) are dumping OUR US GOVERNMENT gold onto the market, depressing the price, and putting the money into stocks, to try to prop up the market. They've been doing this for over 20 years, but this is an unsustainable scenario. Gold WILL breake free, eventually.

[ROXNeutrino5]

"When markets are lower, "safe haven" investments like gold usually rise in price, though that seems to be the opposite of what's happening this time, said Bob Tebbutt, vice-president of risk management at Peregrine Financial."
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hMI5j24OOrhxWM7ugVMDeJfCwDfg


My take on that: The Plunge Protection Team (ie market riggers) are dumping OUR US GOVERNMENT gold onto the market, depressing the price, and putting the money into stocks, to try to prop up the market. They've been doing this for over 20 years, but this is an unsustainable scenario. Gold WILL breake free, eventually.


No, its probably due to market participants thinking that the leveraged hedge funds playing the gold and silver markets will need to sell some gold and silver to meet margin calls in the equity/debt/currency markets. For the time being this is overwhelming safe-haven demand from other investors. Gold and silver prices are holding up extraordinarily well considering the circumstances. Both metals will probably go much higher after the margin-call contagion selling subsides.

A stockmarket crash now will deepen the banking crisis and could easily lead to a currency crisis. Especially if the central banks get people to believe that they are going to debase the hell out of their currencies to try and fight crashing asset markets and recession/depression.

Anyway, whether the hyperinflation is sparked from the supply side (central banks) or the demand side (fiat money holders scared of the central banks ability to print), that's what we're going to get.