PDA

View Full Version : These forums from a Casual Viewer, $23M is not needed by Feb 5th nor is it the end!!




Dylbro
01-21-2008, 08:25 PM
I am a casual viewer of this forum but rarely post as most forums are filled with those that "know it all" and act in a manner that benefits secrecy not truth. As an outside viewer that reads these forums I have to say there is far too much negativity that really has come from nowhere to believe this place isn't infested with trolls and false supporters. The entire spirit of this campaign resides on belief in change, real change. It takes a long while for a message to go from 1 man to a country of 300 million people who have been apathetic to what ails America.

First the campaign has never said they needed 23 million by Feb 5th. Any real advertising for Feb 5th would have needed to be bought weeks before hand. That 23 million will be needed for the states after Feb 5th. It is definately needed but the world is not ending as many like to potray.

Second the race for presidency and the republican nomination will not be over on Feb 5th. Not even close. February 5th will be a HUGE day but this election is not like any other, those delegates are going to be spread between 5-6 candidates. Ron Paul has a great opportunity to get many of those candidates but I believe the best is yet to come. We still have a HUGE number of delegates to be had after Super Tuesday... including places like texas and my hometown of WA. This race will be wide open until the very end.

The best advice you can do for this campaign is to keep spirits up not tear them down by lambasting into why didn't we do this or why didn't we do that or failure this failure that. It is complete nonsense, the world is not going to get better from that. Do you see any professionals acting like that to people? Is this how a good workplace becomes profitable? Is this how our man Ron Paul is inspiring people? No he is doing it with honest, truth and the hope of a better future. Spread that instead.

Just an opinion from a casual viewer....

Thank all of you who continue to spread the real message! I know this board is filled with many of you aswell.

justinc.1089
01-21-2008, 08:31 PM
Yeah the campaign even put that goal of $23 million on the website. Where do you think people came up with that?

And yes, when they said it, there was time for it to be used for supertuesday also.

But don't be afraid to post on here lol.

Dylbro
01-21-2008, 08:41 PM
Yes the campaign did put that up there but it said they needed it to compete on Feb 5th and beyond. Something so many people like to leave out to discourage others... Most the advertising for Feb 5th had to of been bought already so not raising another 23 million by Feb 5th is not a failure in anyway. So many here on these boards want to suggest that and I personally find it misleading at the least.

I like alot of what people have to say here and I see a great many people with great ideas but most those who really troll these boards and can be found posting in every post are classic trolls found in any forum around the web. I hope people realize this and it has nothing really to do with a lack of progress with the campaign but those individuals inability to deal with what they deam as correct as they are classic "know it alls". The campaign is doing AMAZING from an average person's view and anything else is just silly to suggest. This is the first time in history a candidate can compete almost solely from the support of the people.

Tactics to squash campaigns do not only hold themselves to media misinformation but to causing trouble at the source. Hold true to why you believe in Ron Paul's message for that is what we are spreading. I just see so much negativity coming from a few individuals posted in almost every thread that I don't wan't others to be discouraged. This is normal for a forum.

trey4sports
01-21-2008, 08:44 PM
:D
Yes the campaign did put that up there but it said they needed it to compete on Feb 5th and beyond. Something so many people like to leave out to discourage others... Most the advertising for Feb 5th had to of been bought already so not raising another 23 million by Feb 5th is not a failure in anyway. So many here on these boards want to suggest that and I personally find it misleading at the least.

I like alot of what people have to say here and I see a great many people with great ideas but most those who really troll these boards and can be found posting in every post are classic trolls found in any forum around the web. I hope people realize this and it has nothing really to do with a lack of progress with the campaign but those individuals inability to deal with what they deam as correct as they are classic "know it alls". The campaign is doing AMAZING from an average person's view and anything else is just silly to suggest. This is the first time in history a candidate can compete almost solely from the support of the people.

Tactics to squash campaigns do not only hold themselves to media misinformation but to causing trouble at the source. Hold true to why you believe in Ron Paul's message for that is what we are spreading. I just see so much negativity coming from a few individuals posted in almost every thread that I don't wan't others to be discouraged. This is normal for a forum. :D


good insight and welcome to the forum. stay and donate as long as you like

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 08:46 PM
:D :D
good insight and welcome to the forum. stay and donate as long as you like

I'd call it bad insight to suggest that any candidate can win 24 states with no media exposure and no national advertising.

In fact, I'd call it plain foolish.

Sey.Naci
01-21-2008, 08:47 PM
Thanks Dylbro, but the current amount the campaign has on hand isn't enough. We need to dig deeper.

And please stick around. :)

govtpigII
01-21-2008, 08:48 PM
Honest post. Welcome to the board.

trey4sports
01-21-2008, 08:49 PM
I'd call it bad insight to suggest that any candidate can win 24 states with no media exposure and no national advertising.

In fact, I'd call it plain foolish.

i think the whole idea of his post is that we cant be on some kind of huge emotional rollercoaster, this is a long drawn out battle.

kaleidoscope eyes
01-21-2008, 08:49 PM
Hi Dylbro! Welcome.

BTW I think your post is correct!

Dylbro
01-21-2008, 08:56 PM
I'd call it bad insight to suggest that any candidate can win 24 states with no media exposure and no national advertising.

In fact, I'd call it plain foolish.


Ben you are one of the classic's that run around in every thread spreading half truth and discouragement. I understand you probably want the best for everyone but your tactics don't work. They take hope instead of creating it. Invention and idea's rarely come from fear and that is all I have seen you spread.

Half Truth - No Media Exposure and no national advertising.

Half Truth - "Suggest any candidate can win 24 states"

Can you put a price on 100,000 volunteers? Is this not national advertising?
Millions of views spreading across thousands of videos is No Media Exposure?
Do you expect 1 candidate will win all 24 states?

Half Truths are intented to spread a lack of hope through disinformation. Everything you say in these forums could be spun exactly the same but with a different tone and meaning. Try changing it up a little bit from looking at things as half empty to half full. Might change a few more minds and help promote the cause of freedom.

JimInNY
01-21-2008, 08:57 PM
The best advice you can do for this campaign is to keep spirits up not tear them down by lambasting into why didn't we do this or why didn't we do that or failure this failure that.

Sound advice. Negativity is called negativity for a reason. It is negative. Negativity cannot accomplish anything.

It's going to be a long hard fight. If Dr. Paul can do this, day in and day out, so can we. Shit, we better! It's our best hope for America!

JimInNY
01-21-2008, 08:58 PM
Yeah the campaign even put that goal of $23 million on the website.

The goal for the quarter, not the month.

Devil_rules_in_extremes
01-21-2008, 09:07 PM
I am a casual viewer of this forum but rarely post as most forums are filled with those that "know it all" and act in a manner that benefits secrecy not truth. As an outside viewer that reads these forums I have to say there is far too much negativity that really has come from nowhere to believe this place isn't infested with trolls and false supporters. The entire spirit of this campaign resides on belief in change, real change. It takes a long while for a message to go from 1 man to a country of 300 million people who have been apathetic to what ails America.

First the campaign has never said they needed 23 million by Feb 5th. Any real advertising for Feb 5th would have needed to be bought weeks before hand. That 23 million will be needed for the states after Feb 5th. It is definately needed but the world is not ending as many like to potray.

Second the race for presidency and the republican nomination will not be over on Feb 5th. Not even close. February 5th will be a HUGE day but this election is not like any other, those delegates are going to be spread between 5-6 candidates. Ron Paul has a great opportunity to get many of those candidates but I believe the best is yet to come. We still have a HUGE number of delegates to be had after Super Tuesday... including places like texas and my hometown of WA. This race will be wide open until the very end.

The best advice you can do for this campaign is to keep spirits up not tear them down by lambasting into why didn't we do this or why didn't we do that or failure this failure that. It is complete nonsense, the world is not going to get better from that. Do you see any professionals acting like that to people? Is this how a good workplace becomes profitable? Is this how our man Ron Paul is inspiring people? No he is doing it with honest, truth and the hope of a better future. Spread that instead.

Just an opinion from a casual viewer....

Thank all of you who continue to spread the real message! I know this board is filled with many of you aswell.


Good post. Thanks for the input. Post more often.

TNFreedom
01-21-2008, 09:10 PM
I'd call it bad insight to suggest that any candidate can win 24 states with no media exposure and no national advertising.

In fact, I'd call it plain foolish.

Thank you for taking the time to spread negativity. I also really like your tone, very pleasant. Please keep spending your time posting like this, it will definitely help us.

wgadget
01-21-2008, 09:12 PM
Old Be Franklin has been at it ALL DAY. Seriously. He's getting very practiced in being negative. In fact, I think he's got it down...

tomveil
01-21-2008, 09:13 PM
Welcome to the boards! Where in WA are you? We can always use more dedicated people down here in Clark County!

Dylbro
01-21-2008, 09:16 PM
I live in Snohomish county although I work in redmond and saw that someone had been out canvasing all over the weekend. Was a great site to see... bunch of the smaller blue signs which I think work alot better as they are more pleasing to the eye. Think i'll go order myself some of those.

Ex Post Facto
01-21-2008, 09:17 PM
Hi Dylbro! Welcome.

BTW I think your post is correct!

I second that.

Dylbro
01-21-2008, 09:20 PM
Hmm well I only see the site selling the larger yard signs... wonder where they got the smaller ones from. If anyone knows let me know!

luvfreedom
01-21-2008, 09:21 PM
I think Dylbro is right, and no that does not mean I am being "unrealistic or setting myself up for disappointment" as I have heard others say on this forum. This will be a long hard battle but its not over!

freelance
01-21-2008, 09:38 PM
I am a casual viewer of this forum but rarely post as most forums are filled with those that "know it all" and act in a manner that benefits secrecy not truth. As an outside viewer that reads these forums I have to say there is far too much negativity that really has come from nowhere to believe this place isn't infested with trolls and false supporters. The entire spirit of this campaign resides on belief in change, real change. It takes a long while for a message to go from 1 man to a country of 300 million people who have been apathetic to what ails America.

First the campaign has never said they needed 23 million by Feb 5th. Any real advertising for Feb 5th would have needed to be bought weeks before hand. That 23 million will be needed for the states after Feb 5th. It is definately needed but the world is not ending as many like to potray.

Second the race for presidency and the republican nomination will not be over on Feb 5th. Not even close. February 5th will be a HUGE day but this election is not like any other, those delegates are going to be spread between 5-6 candidates. Ron Paul has a great opportunity to get many of those candidates but I believe the best is yet to come. We still have a HUGE number of delegates to be had after Super Tuesday... including places like texas and my hometown of WA. This race will be wide open until the very end.

The best advice you can do for this campaign is to keep spirits up not tear them down by lambasting into why didn't we do this or why didn't we do that or failure this failure that. It is complete nonsense, the world is not going to get better from that. Do you see any professionals acting like that to people? Is this how a good workplace becomes profitable? Is this how our man Ron Paul is inspiring people? No he is doing it with honest, truth and the hope of a better future. Spread that instead.

Just an opinion from a casual viewer....

Thank all of you who continue to spread the real message! I know this board is filled with many of you aswell.

A voice of reason. What a breath of fresh air. Thank you for a thoughtful post.

freelance
01-21-2008, 09:39 PM
Old Be Franklin has been at it ALL DAY. Seriously. He's getting very practiced in being negative. In fact, I think he's got it down...
10¢ a post.

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 09:52 PM
i think the whole idea of his post is that we cant be on some kind of huge emotional rollercoaster, this is a long drawn out battle.

If you call 15 days drawn out. This isn't a regular election season.

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 09:55 PM
Sound advice. Negativity is called negativity for a reason. It is negative. Negativity cannot accomplish anything.

It's going to be a long hard fight. If Dr. Paul can do this, day in and day out, so can we. Shit, we better! It's our best hope for America!

Its a fight that ends in 15 days. It is not long, it is not drawn out. Saying so doesn't make it so.

The election season has been changed. Stop closing your eyes and everyon elses to the facts, or shut the f* up.

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 09:57 PM
Thank you for taking the time to spread negativity. I also really like your tone, very pleasant. Please keep spending your time posting like this, it will definitely help us.

I'm sure it will. I saw chatter, gossipy, and girly feel good posts today. I saw almost nothing that would help win the election, or address what is really going on.

We've been blacked out of the media, and we don't have enough money to advertise nationally because we haven't raised it - because "it will all just be good".

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 09:58 PM
Ben you are one of the classic's that run around in every thread spreading half truth and discouragement. I understand you probably want the best for everyone but your tactics don't work. They take hope instead of creating it. Invention and idea's rarely come from fear and that is all I have seen you spread.


Take hope, huh?

We can win this election if we raise 23 million, and we CAN raise 23 million.

What I see is a bunch of self jerk idiots that think we can't raise 23 million.

I'm actually the only one here who is being hopefully, and realistic.

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 10:00 PM
10¢ a post.

I'm not the one using a name freelance. I also know who I am, which kind of exposes you to me.

We can raise 23 million, and Ron Paul can win.

If you have ALREADY LOST HOPE, by being negative about the fact that we can't raise 23 million, then I suggest that YOU

Stop being negative.

Dylbro
01-21-2008, 10:01 PM
Its a fight that ends in 15 days. It is not long, it is not drawn out. Saying so doesn't make it so.

The election season has been changed. Stop closing your eyes and everyon elses to the facts, or shut the f* up.

You are very much trapped in your own thoughts. What are the "facts" according to you? What do you see as the fight ending in 15 days? What fight exactly is that? The fight for freedom? I certianly hope not... unless your expecting some sort of world disaster? If your speaking of the election your most definately wrong. Feb 5th will be like round 5 or 6... do you have the stamina to last to 10? I do as there will be no clear winner on Feb 5. I think Huck will take delegates from the south, McCain and Rudy will take some from the NE, Mitt will take several from the midwest and Ron Paul will take a little bit from everywhere.

Also telling people to shut the f*up? Honestly, Ben Franklin would be ashamed as you have no idea what liberty is about. Trying to force your "facts" and thoughts onto others without even stating what they are and telling people to shut the f* up. I think your participating in the wrong campaign.

Devil_rules_in_extremes
01-21-2008, 10:05 PM
You are very much trapped in your own thoughts. What are the "facts" according to you? What do you see as the fight ending in 15 days? What fight exactly is that? The fight for freedom? I certianly hope not... unless your expecting some sort of world disaster? If your speaking of the election your most definately wrong. Feb 5th will be like round 5 or 6... do you have the stamina to last to 10? I do as there will be no clear winner on Feb 5. I think Huck will take delegates from the south, McCain and Rudy will take some from the NE, Mitt will take several from the midwest and Ron Paul will take a little bit from everywhere.

Also telling people to shut the f*up? Honestly, Ben Franklin would be ashamed as you have no idea what liberty is about. Trying to force your "facts" and thoughts onto others without even stating what they are and telling people to shut the f* up. I think your participating in the wrong campaign.

I like this guy....

Trigonx
01-21-2008, 10:12 PM
I like this guy....

i second that, i love seeing new people here who can use reason and logic :)



My state decides on Feb 19th and I see Wisconsin as a possible key state after Super Tuesday, so the battle is not over and won't be over for a long time.

ForrestLayne
01-21-2008, 10:17 PM
To the end - RP has said he is going the distance to the actual convention IN AUGUST. He said he was hoping for a brokered convention. The grassroots and constant banging away at each and every opportunity is going to work.

RP was said to have had 8-9 million as of last week still left - most others but Romney (he's borrowing from himself) are out of funds... How are they going to keep it going?????

Our grassroots numbers are going to keep money coming in all along - payday by payday. I could not muster but $100 today, but I am giving as much as I can as often as I can. If we keep that up, we can stay even or ahead of everyone else.

Just think what he can do in July-August leading into the convention with real money vs everyone else tapped out.

Keep the faith for 6 months - it's not all that long

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 10:21 PM
Also telling people to shut the f*up? Honestly, Ben Franklin would be ashamed as you have no idea what liberty is about. Trying to force your "facts" and thoughts onto others without even stating what they are and telling people to shut the f* up. I think your participating in the wrong campaign.

Crap. I have the right to defend myself in the manner I choose, and that includes stooping to the same language everyone else has been using.

Dylbro
01-21-2008, 10:32 PM
Crap. I have the right to defend myself in the manner I choose, and that includes stooping to the same language everyone else has been using.

You certainly do but the language and manner in which you choose will reflect how everyone else views you and your message more so than the message you are trying to say. I understand your intent about needing to get more money but the way you talk about that has a big black cloud over it and turns most people off. We do need alot of money to compete and this media black out is a real pain in the ass. Everytime one of the pundits diss's Paul with their snide comments erks me just as much as the next but if we are to win we need to act like teammates not angry spooks jumping at everything that isn't "perfect".

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 10:34 PM
You certainly do but the language and manner in which you choose will reflect how everyone else views you and your message more so than the message you are trying to say. I understand your intent about needing to get more money but the way you talk about that has a big black cloud over it and turns most people off. We need alot of money to compete and this media black out is a real pain in the ass. Everytime one of those pundits diss's Paul with there snide comments erks me just as much as the next but if we are to win we need to act like teammates not angry spooks jumping at everything that isn't "perfect".

That black cloud descended on everyone like a bad spell 3 weeks ago, and they haven't even realized it quite yet. I'm sorry for the slap in the face, but its a slap to wake up.

dawnbt
01-21-2008, 10:45 PM
You are very much trapped in your own thoughts. What are the "facts" according to you? What do you see as the fight ending in 15 days? What fight exactly is that? The fight for freedom? I certianly hope not... unless your expecting some sort of world disaster? If your speaking of the election your most definately wrong. Feb 5th will be like round 5 or 6... do you have the stamina to last to 10? I do as there will be no clear winner on Feb 5. I think Huck will take delegates from the south, McCain and Rudy will take some from the NE, Mitt will take several from the midwest and Ron Paul will take a little bit from everywhere.

Also telling people to shut the f*up? Honestly, Ben Franklin would be ashamed as you have no idea what liberty is about. Trying to force your "facts" and thoughts onto others without even stating what they are and telling people to shut the f* up. I think your participating in the wrong campaign.

Dude! Where have you been? You go boy!

cyrax
01-21-2008, 10:45 PM
Your attitude is very welcome Dylbro.

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 10:47 PM
Oh how your cheating thought loves to flock to the negative threads, and yet I see not a name among you popping up on any of the positive threads the last week to raise money, including today.

Dylbro
01-21-2008, 10:47 PM
That black cloud descended on everyone like a bad spell 3 weeks ago, and they haven't even realized it quite yet. I'm sorry for the slap in the face, but its a slap to wake up.

No offense man but I am safe to say I'm in the majority on this one. I'm not sure what it is I need a slap in the face for? Have you put all your hopes and dreams into winning one of the first 6 primaries? I would call that a very bad idea... a ripe potion for an emotional rollercoaster and irrational thinking.

Ron Paul's accomplishments:

100,000+ Volunteer's
30+ Million Raised
Defeating the "Front Runner" 5 of 6 times
Garnishing 100,000+ Votes in 6 states
Spreading the message of truth and freedom to Millions
Record breaking fund raising
Over taking of the Online Community


We are not small, old media is not growing, we are a political virus and you should step on board cause the Freedom Train is just gettin started.

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 10:49 PM
No offense man but I am safe to say I'm in the majority on this one. I'm not sure what it is I need a slap in the face for? Have you put all your hopes and dreams into winning one of the first 6 primaries? I would call that a very bad idea... a ripe potion for an emotional rollercoaster and irrational thinking.


That is my point. You love negative threads where you are in a majority, and feel safe. It makes you feel good.

This is why we've only raised 2 million the whole quarter. Objectively, that isn't good, it stinks.

fedup100
01-21-2008, 10:53 PM
That black cloud descended on everyone like a bad spell 3 weeks ago, and they haven't even realized it quite yet. I'm sorry for the slap in the face, but its a slap to wake up.

F U BEN

Dylbro
01-21-2008, 11:01 PM
That is my point. You love negative threads where you are in a majority, and feel safe. It makes you feel good.

This is why we've only raised 2 million the whole quarter. Objectively, that isn't good, it stinks.


I love negative threads? This is my first thread, i've posted only a few times like i said earlier. When you run out of ammo its best to drop the gun. You just look silly shootin blanks. :(

We've raised 3 million actually and thats freakin awesome... I bet its as much as half the other guys raised all quarter.

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 11:01 PM
F U BEN

Yes and F U too.

What I see here is clearly not what I would call an issue of right and wrong. That would mean it is wrong for you to do something and for me to do something as well. That is clearly not the case. At least ten people have been mocking or insulting me, and when I start using the same language, I am told I am wrong for using the same language.

That is not an issue of right or wrong. This is a determination that there is briefly more of you on this negative thread then there is of me, and that you are a "majority" and are safe.

The majority appear to want what objectively they can't have, because it doesn't match the facts.

If you don't raise a large sum of money, 23 million is what the campaign said, you can't advertise nationally, and you are not likely to win - since 24 states are being decided on the same day.

You can get as emotional, worked up, and insulting as you want, and try to get as many people on your side to thug the insults around, but its not going to change the facts or the objective one bit.

Dylbro
01-21-2008, 11:05 PM
How is this a negative thread anyway? Your the only one that has been negative... I think I give a positive message anyway. Sorry your feelin so glum Ben but you should reevaluate why you feel that way and see if it's really justified.

What are those facts again?

Devil_rules_in_extremes
01-21-2008, 11:08 PM
Yes and F U too.

What I see here is clearly not what I would call an issue of right and wrong. That would mean it is wrong for you to do something and for me to do something as well. That is clearly not the case. At least ten people have been mocking or insulting me, and when I start using the same language, I am told I am wrong for using the same language.

That is not an issue of right or wrong. This is a determination that there is briefly more of you on this negative thread then there is of me, and that you are a "majority" and are safe.

The majority appear to want what objectively they can't have, because it doesn't match the facts.

If you don't raise a large sum of money, 23 million is what the campaign said, you can't advertise nationally, and you are not likely to win - since 24 states are being decided on the same day.

You can get as emotional, worked up, and insulting as you want, and try to get as many people on your side to thug the insults around, but its not going to change the facts or the objective one bit.


They must of upped it to $0.25 a post............

dircha
01-21-2008, 11:08 PM
We will be out of the running for the GOP nomination the morning of February 6th if we default to 5-10% in the 22 Super Tuesday states, and as it stands now, we are on pace to do just this.

That is a fact.

What you're saying is just as bad as the people posting that nonsense about billionaires lining up to fund the campaign. This creates complacency. So does telling everyone that everything is alright, when in fact everything is far from alright.

We have failed to address our shortcomings over the past 6 months because we have again and again failed to own up to reality. We can not win in reality when we do not deal in the world of reality. There is one world that works. There is one world that matters.

How many times do we have to go over this? How is it that so many people in this world reach adulthood without grasping this simple fact?

Wishing for something can not make it so.

Ron Paul is not a fairy, and clapping your hands if you believe in him can not make him our President.

We fail because we believe that denying reality can change it.

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 11:13 PM
We will be out of the running for the GOP nomination the morning of February 6th if we default to 5-10% in the 22 Super Tuesday states, and as it stands now, we are on pace to do just this.

That is a fact.

What you're saying is just as bad as the people posting that nonsense about billionaires lining up to fund the campaign. This creates complacency. So does telling everyone that everything is alright, when in fact everything is far from alright.

We have failed to address our shortcomings over the past 6 months because we have again and again failed to own up to reality. We can not win in reality when we do not deal in the world of reality. There is one world that works. There is one world that matters.

How many times do we have to go over this? How is it that so many people in this world reach adulthood without grasping this simple fact?

Wishing for something can not make it so.

Ron Paul is not a fairy, and clapping your hands if you believe in him can not make him our President.

We fail because we believe that denying reality can change it.

Thank you, I agree with this.

Being hopeful and real about something is not being negative.

I hope we can win. What you are suggesting is no way to win. Also, let me offer a suggestion to everyone too - some of those ideas that can't work - they might spring from human frailty to want something without cost, but SOME OF IT CAME FROM THE OUTSIDE TOO - WAKE UP.

Devil_rules_in_extremes
01-21-2008, 11:14 PM
We will be out of the running for the GOP nomination the morning of February 6th if we default to 5-10% in the 22 Super Tuesday states, and as it stands now, we are on pace to do just this.

That is a fact.

What you're saying is just as bad as the people posting that nonsense about billionaires lining up to fund the campaign. This creates complacency. So does telling everyone that everything is alright, when in fact everything is far from alright.

We have failed to address our shortcomings over the past 6 months because we have again and again failed to own up to reality. We can not win in reality when we do not deal in the world of reality. There is one world that works. There is one world that matters.

How many times do we have to go over this? How is it that so many people in this world reach adulthood without grasping this simple fact?

Wishing for something can not make it so.

Ron Paul is not a fairy, and clapping your hands if you believe in him can not make him our President.

We fail because we believe that denying reality can change it.


You do your part in helping the campaign and I'll do mine. Focus on your precinct and CONVERT voters into the Ron Paul campaign.

Chibioz
01-21-2008, 11:18 PM
Welcome Dylbro. In the early forum days things were more positive around here. The trolls have overrun this place as you have said. Your positivity is very welcome and appreciated. and.. Be Franklin - WTF?? You are contributing nothing with your negativity.

LukeNM
01-21-2008, 11:20 PM
BeFranklin is difinately a trouble making nay-sayer!

Bryan
01-21-2008, 11:20 PM
Just wanted to remind everyone of this forum guidelines- please flag posts that violate it, use this icon: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/gfx_RedWhiteBlue/buttons/report.gif

+ No excessive / pointless negativity on the campaign, its future or elements of it. All messages with a negative tone about the campaign from new users must provide supportive facts as to why there is a perceived negative and provide some suggested solutions to the issue.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=22

Thanks!

Great OP- welcome!

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 11:21 PM
You do your part in helping the campaign and I'll do mine. Focus on your precinct and CONVERT voters into the Ron Paul campaign.

a) There is no reason to want Ron Paul to be president and not work with Ron Paul in raising money because "you don't trust his campaign". That is insane. If he can be a good president, he can run a good campaign.

b) Work smarter, not harder. Its far more effective to advertise. Many voters will not feel the candidate is "electicable" if they don't see media exposure, just you.

Devil_rules_in_extremes
01-21-2008, 11:22 PM
Just wanted to remind everyone of this forum guidelines- please flag posts that violate it, use this icon: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/gfx_RedWhiteBlue/buttons/report.gif

+ No excessive / pointless negativity on the campaign, its future or elements of it. All messages with a negative tone about the campaign from new users must provide supportive facts as to why there is a perceived negative and provide some suggested solutions to the issue.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=22

Thanks!

Great OP- welcome!


Double BLIMP-BUMP for this post right here!!!!

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 11:23 PM
BeFranklin is difinately a trouble making nay-sayer!

Almost every post I've posted something positive to do. If you don't want to take suggestions when we are doing poorly, I guess we will continue to do so.

Traditionally, a multiplicity of advisor's was considered a good thing. A wise man listens, but a fool won't take head.

mdevour
01-21-2008, 11:25 PM
I've disagreed with BeFranklin on a few things, but in this case... :D

On December 29th, a good six weeks before February 5th, Kent Snyder told us explicitely in a campaign e-mail that ...


To run radio and television ads in 20 states simultaneously will cost a fortune. Not to mention the cost of voter contact mailings to those 20 states. And then there is the cost of contacting hundreds of thousands of people by phone. All of this, plus other projects, will cost $23 million more than we presently have in the bank.

I take that at face value.

Since the grassroots has chosen not to meet the challenge, for whatever reasons, the entire Super Tuesday push has had to be scaled back to what could be done with the existing bankroll and still leave enough to carry on afterward.

My best guess is that less than half of what the campaign hoped to do has gotten done and I expect it to show on Super Tuesday. I suspect they've focused on fewer states and will do no national ad buys. I see grassroots that are well organised in some states, and others where they're not and little money will be spent.

Ron Paul's better off than lesser candidates, but he's nowhere near the heights we could have boosted him to.

So, while I agree with much of your sentiments, Dylbro, and certainly welcome you to the forum, I've got to say that you're wrong about the $23 million. The campaign really DID need that money, and for very good reasons.

All that said, it's great to finally see Dr. Paul's fundraising numbers back in 7 digits where they belong! We'll see what happens on the 5th.

For Liberty!

Mike D.

an.old.analyst
01-21-2008, 11:27 PM
I am a casual viewer of this forum but rarely post as most forums are filled with those that "know it all" and act in a manner that benefits secrecy not truth. As an outside viewer that reads these forums I have to say there is far too much negativity that really has come from nowhere to believe this place isn't infested with trolls and false supporters. The entire spirit of this campaign resides on belief in change, real change. It takes a long while for a message to go from 1 man to a country of 300 million people who have been apathetic to what ails America.

First the campaign has never said they needed 23 million by Feb 5th. Any real advertising for Feb 5th would have needed to be bought weeks before hand. That 23 million will be needed for the states after Feb 5th. It is definately needed but the world is not ending as many like to potray.

Second the race for presidency and the republican nomination will not be over on Feb 5th. Not even close. February 5th will be a HUGE day but this election is not like any other, those delegates are going to be spread between 5-6 candidates. Ron Paul has a great opportunity to get many of those candidates but I believe the best is yet to come. We still have a HUGE number of delegates to be had after Super Tuesday... including places like texas and my hometown of WA. This race will be wide open until the very end.

The best advice you can do for this campaign is to keep spirits up not tear them down by lambasting into why didn't we do this or why didn't we do that or failure this failure that. It is complete nonsense, the world is not going to get better from that. Do you see any professionals acting like that to people? Is this how a good workplace becomes profitable? Is this how our man Ron Paul is inspiring people? No he is doing it with honest, truth and the hope of a better future. Spread that instead.

Just an opinion from a casual viewer....

Thank all of you who continue to spread the real message! I know this board is filled with many of you aswell.
This fight is much larger than a single presidency, or a single election. While getting Ron election can help delay the path that we are currently on, we will not win this fight until a significant percentage of Americans (say >20%) begin to understand the system that we are transitioning to and how the people behind this transition sell us their plan. Ron is helping us down the road of understanding, and we as supporters would be wise to understand Ron's message and technique for successfully delivering this message. Dylbro is correct in their analysis that this election does not end on Feb 5th and that some of the negativity is misplaced and unsupportable in the larger picture.

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 11:28 PM
Welcome Dylbro. In the early forum days things were more positive around here. The trolls have overrun this place as you have said. Your positivity is very welcome and appreciated. and.. Be Franklin - WTF?? You are contributing nothing with your negativity.

I have contributed a positive suggestion in almost every post.

Reread the title of the thread. I am not being negative about raising 23 million. I think we can do it. I am not being foolish to think we can lose 24 states and win the election.

In 15 days on Super Duper Tuesday, 24 states will have their elections.

I am hopeful we can win. I am not being foolish that we can lose them all and still win.

That is being hopeful and real, not negative (we can't raise 23 million) or foolish (we don't need to win Feb 5th).

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 11:32 PM
I've disagreed with BeFranklin on a few things, but in this case... :D

I hope not, I'd like to think I'm practicle perfect. :D



On December 29th, a good six weeks before February 5th, Kent Snyder told us explicitely in a campaign e-mail that ...



I take that at face value.

Since the grassroots has chosen not to meet the challenge, for whatever reasons, the entire Super Tuesday push has had to be scaled back to what could be done with the existing bankroll and still leave enough to carry on afterward.

My best guess is that less than half of what the campaign hoped to do has gotten done and I expect it to show on Super Tuesday. I suspect they've focused on fewer states and will do no national ad buys. I see grassroots that are well organised in some states, and others where they're not and little money will be spent.

Ron Paul's better off than lesser candidates, but he's nowhere near the heights we could have boosted him to.

So, while I agree with much of your sentiments, Dylbro, and certainly welcome you to the forum, I've got to say that you're wrong about the $23 million. The campaign really DID need that money, and for very good reasons.

We'll see what happens on the 5th.

For Liberty!

Mike D.
[/QUOTE]

Well said. Me too, I took it at face value, and I'm surprised it may not have been by others.

Mckarnin
01-21-2008, 11:34 PM
I am a casual viewer of this forum but rarely post as most forums are filled with those that "know it all" and act in a manner that benefits secrecy not truth. As an outside viewer that reads these forums I have to say there is far too much negativity that really has come from nowhere to believe this place isn't infested with trolls and false supporters. The entire spirit of this campaign resides on belief in change, real change. It takes a long while for a message to go from 1 man to a country of 300 million people who have been apathetic to what ails America.

First the campaign has never said they needed 23 million by Feb 5th. Any real advertising for Feb 5th would have needed to be bought weeks before hand. That 23 million will be needed for the states after Feb 5th. It is definately needed but the world is not ending as many like to potray.

Second the race for presidency and the republican nomination will not be over on Feb 5th. Not even close. February 5th will be a HUGE day but this election is not like any other, those delegates are going to be spread between 5-6 candidates. Ron Paul has a great opportunity to get many of those candidates but I believe the best is yet to come. We still have a HUGE number of delegates to be had after Super Tuesday... including places like texas and my hometown of WA. This race will be wide open until the very end.

The best advice you can do for this campaign is to keep spirits up not tear them down by lambasting into why didn't we do this or why didn't we do that or failure this failure that. It is complete nonsense, the world is not going to get better from that. Do you see any professionals acting like that to people? Is this how a good workplace becomes profitable? Is this how our man Ron Paul is inspiring people? No he is doing it with honest, truth and the hope of a better future. Spread that instead.

Just an opinion from a casual viewer....

Thank all of you who continue to spread the real message! I know this board is filled with many of you aswell.



Welcome

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 11:34 PM
This fight is much larger than a single presidency, or a single election. While getting Ron election can help delay the path that we are currently on, we will not win this fight until a significant percentage of Americans (say >20%) begin to understand the system that we are transitioning to and how the people behind this transition sell us their plan. Ron is helping us down the road of understanding, and we as supporters would be wise to understand Ron's message and technique for successfully delivering this message. Dylbro is correct in their analysis that this election does not end on Feb 5th and that some of the negativity is misplaced and unsupportable in the larger picture.

Although true, we can win this still. Everything on one day doesn't give any candidate a specific advantage (barring only the media reporting on some). A candidate could still advertise nationally, and win the day.

I think Ron Paul *does* have the message the American people want to hear, so it really is just a matter of getting it to them.

driller80545
01-21-2008, 11:36 PM
I'm sorry that we haven't raised 23 million. I have given more than I can afford. I will continue to give more than I can afford until the end. I feel very positive about RP's chances Feb 5th. I choose to feel very positive about it. I have heard all the reasons why we can't do well on the 5th and some of them are probably right. I will still be positive about our chances because I choose to. If this is what Ben F calls girly, then fine, I don't care.
I have never in my nearly sixty years seen such a grassroots effort as this one and pissing on everyone because we didn't reach a huge goal (23 million) or because the sheep aren't voting the way we wanted is a piss poor motivator in my opinion. I say "keep up the good fight people, the fat lady ain't sang yet"/

BeFranklin
01-21-2008, 11:43 PM
I'm sorry that we haven't raised 23 million. I have given more than I can afford. I will continue to give more than I can afford until the end. I feel very positive about RP's chances Feb 5th. I choose to feel very positive about it. I have heard all the reasons why we can't do well on the 5th and some of them are probably right. I will still be positive about our chances because I choose to. If this is what Ben F calls girly, then fine, I don't care.
I have never in my nearly sixty years seen such a grassroots effort as this one and pissing on everyone because we didn't reach a huge goal (23 million) or because the sheep aren't voting the way we wanted is a piss poor motivator in my opinion. I say "keep up the good fight people, the fat lady ain't sang yet"/

It wasn't meant as a motivator. It was meant as a thinker. Until the end of this thread (part of what you are referring to is on another thread) people weren't even talking about WHAT prevented us from getting 23 million.

Well, thinking is a lot more important then feeling at this point. At least now we are talking. Yes, we needed the 23 million. And yes, some of the ideas that have been floating around that have been preventing us from getting it have been talked about - like they don't really need it, the campaign isn't really doing a good job, they can get the FEC to do it, they can get a billionaire to do it, etc.

Those issues have also been addressed on another thread in more depth, and *no* negativity! (gasp, how did I do it it :)).

We need to move beyond the ideas that have been holding us back for the last 3-6 weeks. We've raised more money before, and we can do it again. For one thing, we've been so un-motivated, we haven't even advertised this right, and we were't even pumping it up on the main forum - instead we had a bunch of posts on topics not even related to Ron Paul getting elected - no sign a money bomb was going on at all!

driller80545
01-21-2008, 11:58 PM
It wasn't meant as a motivator. It was meant as a thinker. Until the end of this thread (part of what you are referring to is on another thread) people weren't even talking about WHAT prevented us from getting 23 million.

Well, thinking is a lot more important then feeling at this point. At least now we are talking. Yes, we needed the 23 million. And yes, some of the ideas that have been floating around that have been preventing us from getting it have been talked about - like they don't really need it, the campaign isn't really doing a good job, they can get the FEC to do it, they can get a billionaire to do it, etc.

Those issues have also been addressed on another thread in more depth, and *no* negativity! (gasp, how did I do it it :)).

We need to move beyond the ideas that have been holding us back for the last 3-6 weeks. We've raised more money before, and we can do it again. For one thing, we've been so un-motivated, we haven't even advertised this right, and we were't even pumping it up on the main forum - instead we had a bunch of posts on topics not even related to Ron Paul getting elected - no sign a money bomb was going on at all!

Regardless of the reason why, we aren't going to get 23 million. I was notified repeatedly of the moneybomb today and donated more than I could on the tea party one. I have seen numerous threads for several weeks about the moneybomb and have recieved emails from my meetup group as well as HQ. I don't know what you mean when you say this has not been advertised right.
23 million does not guarantee success anymore than not having guarantees failure. I believe that many of the grassroots have decided to go door to door, support chip ins, etc. instead of giving all of it to HQ. Right or wrong.
And maybe some people left the campaign due to disappointment over Iowa, NH, and SC. I don't know if this is true or not, I don't care because it doesn't change me or what I have to do to win in the end. You can scream at me, call me stupid and tell me to get f**ked. That won't get me to think or feel anything.

Rhys
01-22-2008, 12:34 AM
Everyone who says the campaign sucks...

they had no idea until Q4 that they'd even have money. Then, once they did have money, they got to work organizing.

They put together an awesome canvasing program which very few people are taking part... big disappointment there.

We will not come out of Feb. 5 as a powerhouse is my guess, but we will have delegates. There will be few people left running.

At this point, I think the truth is a win is going to be very hard. They do need that money and they do need people canvasing. Even the blog says to canvas every time it says donate.

I think the grassroots needs to focus a little on the campaign, myself. 100,000 meetup members playing 'sign wave day' more is just a waste of time. 100,000 meetup members and 9,000 precinct's filled. Somehow I'm not encouraged by that.

You always hear the media talk about Romney's organization and why it will win for him. They always talk about Ron Paul has little. You think they know something that they're not lying about? I do.

This is my honest assessment. I want to win, but I don't see us doing what it takes. Again, the precinct leader numbers speak for themselves. Feb. 5 is in two weeks and it is important.

So is staying positive... as long as you're positively working on canvasing.

pacelli
01-22-2008, 02:06 AM
This started as a positive mood-boosting thread and quickly turned into a mood-busting one. I don't care about positive or negative. I care about Ron Paul taking the presidency. That is the reason I'm here. I could care less about my "e-peen" or whatever it is called.

Will we raise $23 million by February 5th? Unlikely. Why? What difference does it make? What good would it do to bring up the fact that the "Benjamins for Paul" moneybomb on 1/17 was a complete failure in which 100-some people didn't meet their pledge? What good would it do to bring up the fact that Ron Paul's payday regularly brings in 10k, even though the weekly goal is 500k? I just brought them up-- and it doesn't help us out at all.

The issue in my view is a communications problem. How do we get more people to donate? Across all of the primaries & caucuses we've had so far, approximately 100,000 people in 6 states have voted for Dr. Paul. That is probably a conservative underestimate given the blackbox voting investigation.

Are those 100,000 people on these forums? Are they even signed up at ronpaul2008.com to receive emails?

I think there is a danger in believing that ALL ron paul supporters are on these forums. This myopic short-sightedness is one of the side effects of being a member of an online community. Soon, it becomes easy to believe that we are the #1 official grassroots HQ and thus we represent the entire Ron Paul grassroots campaign. "E-peen" flexing rears it's ugly head yet again. We don't represent the majority of Ron Paul supporters.

If each of those 100,000 voters could be tracked down and provided with simply the campaign website and this forum web address, our problems would already be solved. I'm willing to bet that each one of those voters would be willing to donate only $10 to the campaign.

How do we go about contacting them? Do you honestly believe that a few obscure (but VERY well-done) youtube videos will be the antidote to this myopic forum disorder?

No. The antidote is to force the grassroots to branch out. I've had incredible success with the precinct captain program. The best part about it is that even though you are giving them campaign information, you can also give them any other information you want. I say again, the grassroots needs to branch out. I'm doing my part - are you?