Gangs in the military

[richard1984]

Do you all think that Ron Paul would take actions to help prevent gang members from joining the military? I just saw a report on CBS (here’s a link: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/28/eveningnews/main3107316.shtml -- also, do a good search for more information).

This seems like it could become a big problem very soon. I assume that active gang members in the military are probably pretty high ranking members. I can imagine some of those Illuminati/NWO thugs using this to their advantage. I often wonder how America could truly become a police state. I don’t understand how humans (namely, those people in the military and police officers who would act as the government’s strong-arms) could inflict such pain and suffering on his/her brothers and sisters. And while I can't fathom the depths of the evil inside some people, I do know that one’s environment can have an incredible impact on his/her direction in life, that poverty and “downpression” (the more expressive Rasta word for ‘oppression’) can bring out the very worst in people, and that cultures/peoples already steeped in gang activity can be easily controlled and directed from the outside.

Does anyone else see this in our military’s future if Ron Paul does not win? I hope that this story helps wake people up to the escalating corruption and degradation in our government and the horrors of the military-industrial complex.

[ChooseLiberty]

Sure they'd want to get people as psychotic as possible while still controllable to be in the police state enforcement.

Gang members would fit the mold perfectly. They'd get to use force to oppress normal citizens. Steal and rape and get off with a slap on the wrist. Sort of like in Iraq now.

[foofighter20x]

Whoa! Hold up.

Whether they were gang members in the past or when they joined is irrelevant. What matters is how they behave once they get in. If they break the law, their commanders and the JAG office will come down on them appropriately.

Would you rather they stay poor and on the streets of the US? Or would you rather they join the military and make something better of themselves, so long as they follow the rules and obey the laws?

I'd also appreciate that you guys take a reasoned approach to this. I'm active duty military and a lot of what you said could easily be taken as a personal attack.

[trispear]

I also imagine that Ron Paul would steadily downsize the armed forces over time and that means they will have a better selection to choose from.

Right now they are lowering standards and still don't meet quotas.

However, even if the armed forces are downsized, I imagine people coming out of highschools will be able to net a job easier when the illegal immigration situation is also reduced.

[bygone]

Right now they are lowering standards and still don't meet quotas.

Couldn't imagine why.

Let's just ship our enitre violent prison population to Iraq, and pull the military out.

Before you know it the entire middle east would be speaking spanglish.

[richard1984]

Whoa! Hold up.

Whether they were gang members in the past or when they joined is irrelevant. What matters is how they behave once they get in. If they break the law, their commanders and the JAG office will come down on them appropriately.

Would you rather they stay poor and on the streets of the US? Or would you rather they join the military and make something better of themselves, so long as they follow the rules and obey the laws?

I'd also appreciate that you guys take a reasoned approach to this. I'm active duty military and a lot of what you said could easily be taken as a personal attack.

Right. I should have been more clear on this point. When I said "active gang members" I intended to clarify that point. Also, I'm talking about the bad factions--not the good. I'm just trying to say that we should watch out who we let into the military--not that everyone in the military is a bad person or anything like that. Check out the link and do the google search. Obviously, I am only referring to people who are causing problems.

Also, I don't think that we should allow gang members (which infers active participation) in the military. Not only are they usually affiliated with criminal activity, but they also owe their allegance (and often their lives) to their gangs, thus causing a conflict of interests.
I'm just saying that we should do thorough background checks of the people we allow in the military. Afterall, they often have more responsibility (like being trusted to carry fire arms) and stress (especially those on the battle field) than the average American has to deal with day-to-day. So we need to make sure that they are stable and trustworthy before we allow them to enlist.

I was only trying to draw attention to the news reports and what it made me think of. If I came across as speaking generally, you must forgive me. In my mind, I was speaking in the context of the topic--gang members in the military.

[richard1984]

Couldn't imagine why.

Let's just ship our enitre violent prison population to Iraq, and pull the military out.

Before you know it the entire middle east would be speaking spanglish.

I just hope it doesn't ever come to that. I sure can see some of those presidential candidates thinking it's a pretty good idea, though.
Of course, they wouldn't tell us what they were doing. They'd make it sound like a good idea (*gag*): "We've made the area formally known as Iraq into a prison for terrorists world-wide" (which would include in today's world anyone the president decides to label as such--definitely the violent prison population).
Talk about the ghetto....

[foofighter20x]

Right. I should have been more clear on this point. When I said "active gang members" I intended to clarify that point. Also, I'm talking about the bad factions--not the good. I'm just trying to say that we should watch out who we let into the military--not that everyone in the military is a bad person or anything like that. Check out the link and do the google search. Obviously, I am only referring to people who are causing problems.

Also, I don't think that we should allow gang members (which infers active participation) in the military. Not only are they usually affiliated with criminal activity, but they also owe their allegance (and often their lives) to their gangs, thus causing a conflict of interests.
I'm just saying that we should do thorough background checks of the people we allow in the military. Afterall, they often have more responsibility (like being trusted to carry fire arms) and stress (especially those on the battle field) than the average American has to deal with day-to-day. So we need to make sure that they are stable and trustworthy before we allow them to enlist.

I was only trying to draw attention to the news reports and what it made me think of. If I came across as speaking generally, you must forgive me. In my mind, I was speaking in the context of the topic--gang members in the military.

I didn't take it personally. I was just trying to snap you guys awake to the fact that you really need to pay attention exactly to what you say in context of this issue.

I'm not against gang members joining the military so long as they are up front about their past involvement to the recruiter and have stated they no longer wish to be involved in such activities.

Also, the recruiter should know to instruct them that if they join and continue their involvement in the gang, they will be in violation of standing military orders and subject to prosecution and penalties under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Edit: Once they've joined, any involvement will and should be handled by their unit commander as per the Manual for Courts Martial and the UCMJ. If they are doing this stuff and getting away with it, then that means their commander isn't paying any attention to what's going on in his unit and isn't being an effective commander.

[conner_condor]

What gang member is going to join the armed forces to begin with? Are you a recruiter by chance and looking for a sales pitch to get them to enlist? May I ask how did you even come up with this? This question you ask should raise suspicsion.

[foofighter20x]

I think he's addressing more the fact--fact--that the Army and USMC have lowered their standards for those seeking entry.

All applicants already undergo a background check as most jobs require at least a Secret level security clearance. Criminal convictions will be flagged. However, if the applicant can get a waiver from the service, they will overlook that past conviction.

Waivers used to not be handed out so readily. After the Iraq War started to turn toward the unpopularity it now faces, recruit numbers dropped off. In order to maintain recruit levels without resorting to a draft, the bars on entry had to be loosened.

[conner_condor]

I think he's addressing more the fact--fact--that the Army and USMC have lowered their standards for those seeking entry.

All applicants already undergo a background check as most jobs require at least a Secret level security clearance. Criminal convictions will be flagged. However, if the applicant can get a waiver from the service, they will overlook that past conviction.

Waivers used to not be handed out so readily. After the Iraq War started to turn toward the unpopularity it now faces, recruit numbers dropped off. In order to maintain recruit levels without resorting to a draft, the bars on entry had to be loosened.


Do you all think that Ron Paul would take actions to help prevent gang members from joining the military?


Again, What gang member is going to join the armed forces?

[foofighter20x]

Again, What gang member is going to join the armed forces?

One that wants the pay, prestige, and benefits of a service member.

I think a better question is going to be this: after Ron Paul brings our troops home, are we going to be so desperate for soldiers that we need to hire gang members?

Also, everyone here should note that it's Congress' job to raise a military, not the President's. His only job is to command them.

[conner_condor]

One that wants the pay, prestige, and benefits of a service member.

I think a better question is going to be this: after Ron Paul brings our troops home, are we going to be so desperate for soldiers that we need to hire gang members?

Also, everyone here should note that it's Congress' job to raise a military, not the President's. His only job is to command them.


HUH???

Short and sweet. Our national guards was not ment to be taken from their state.
The national guards was intended to protect the state. What GWBush did was abuse of power and let our country and states unguarded. That is not a responsible thing to do. As the only protection we have now are the citizens against a ground attack on our soil. Mybe this should be an advertisement for people to join local militais sense Bush took our security of the national guards away form the states. What I find really fucking funny after thinking about this is this thing called homeland security, without a national guard here to protect us. LMFAO

[foofighter20x]

HUH???

What did you not understand? :confused:

[Electric Church]

If they break the law, their commanders and the JAG office will come down on them appropriately.


What world are you living in? They need gang members so they can snuff out true patriots like Pat Tillman.

[foofighter20x]

What world are you living in? They need gang members so they can snuff out true patriots like Pat Tillman.

Are you in the military?
Don't you know that the special operations commands are much different organically than the military at large?
Don't you see in the news that those who covered up that crap with Tillman have been caught and are being dealt with?
Don't you see that nothing in this thread had anything to do with Tillman?
Do you get that this thread is about gang members and their activites once in the military at large, not particularly in the special forces (a branch they'd never get into due to the top secret nature of their opertations)?

Or are you just being an overreactionary asshat and not paying any attention? :rolleyes:

[ShaneC]

Again, What gang member is going to join the armed forces?

Usually, Those who joined to get out of the gangs.

There are still a few gang members that serve. Most don't make it past the first couple years. The ones that do, well, there's usually other corruption around them as well from non-gang-members.

Look through some History at the drug deals and prostitution rings within the military.

[james1844]

Guys, these stories are hype. There really isn't that much of a gang problem in the military.