Transition to RP - Got Busted!

[Rocky Mtn Liberty Lover]

I had a local mother convinced that RP was the way to go until I got this question (paraphrased):

"My daughter is 18 and only going to college with federal funding. I understand your story about RP getting education borrowing from a college endowment; however, that is not an option to us. What will happen to her under RP?"

I couldn't exactly tell her that her daughter has to "take one for the team". Obviously, it would take a long time to phase out federal funding, but ultimately there would be a transition period where some students get "screwed". How can this be rationalized now that we are already in a large-government society?

[ThePieSwindler]

Uh when did Ron say he was going to pull the rug out from under their feet and screw anyone over? Phasing out the program means giving people incentives to find an alternative, but still giving the service to those who are dependant. Honestly thats a stupid reason to not support a candidate, considering everything else that is at stake, especially when you KNOW ron isn't going to pull the rug out from under anyone.

Actually, one interesting solution to the problem that i have thought of would be through government bonds. That way, the taxpayer actually makes money off of lending to the college borrower. Essentially, the government would set up a "college tuition" bond mutual fund, where the borrowers would borrow from the pool, and the lenders would buy bonds in the pool and would receive the payoff after a certain timeframe. That way, the student gets their loan, but rather than the government making money by using taxpayer money, the investors in the bond mutual fund would make the money. Thus someone in the private sector gains wealth, and the student gets to go to school. The government would be allowed to set the interest rate as a neutral party between the lender and the borrower, and would most likely be fair enough to give both parties incentives to participate (lower rates than a private loan, higher rates than a savings account, garunteed payoff and scaling rates depending on investment, to incentivize.)

[michaelwise]

I had a local mother convinced that RP was the way to go until I got this question (paraphrased):

"My daughter is 18 and only going to college with federal funding. I understand your story about RP getting education borrowing from a college endowment; however, that is not an option to us. What will happen to her under RP?"

I couldn't exactly tell her that her daughter has to "take one for the team". Obviously, it would take a long time to phase out federal funding, but ultimately there would be a transition period where some students get "screwed". How can this be rationalized now that we are already in a large-government society?

The economic collapse currently underway will convince her. The national debt is 9 trillion dollars. That works out to about 100k per family. In a couple of years, there won't be any money left to fund that little girls education.

[Hook]

Prices for tuition will almost certainly go down when there isn't free money being thrown at colleges. Before student aid, most people could afford college with modest wages. Like Ron Paul did with his milk truck job. The average family in the US pays $10,000 in income taxes per year. Ask her if she would be willing to give up her favorite federal program if she could get $10,000 a year more in spendable income. Maybe that $10,000 would cover her tuition expenses?

[Hook]

An even more nefarious tax is social security/medicare/medicaid. This tax is 16% of your income up to the first $90,000 of income, irrespective of dependants, etc. It is basically a tax on the poor, much as the "inflation tax" is a tax on the poor. Ask her if a 16% increase in her pay, plus the $10,000 would cover whatever she feels she would be loosing.

[ThePieSwindler]

The economic collapse currently underway will convince her. The national debt is 9 trillion dollars. That works out to about 100k per family. In a couple of years, there won't be any money left to fund that little girls education.

I agree. This is a case of a person proverbially missing the forest for the trees.

[Akus]

I had a local mother convinced that RP was the way to go until I got this question (paraphrased):

"My daughter is 18 and only going to college with federal funding. I understand your story about RP getting education borrowing from a college endowment; however, that is not an option to us. What will happen to her under RP?"

I couldn't exactly tell her that her daughter has to "take one for the team". Obviously, it would take a long time to phase out federal funding, but ultimately there would be a transition period where some students get "screwed". How can this be rationalized now that we are already in a large-government society?

Rocky have that mother contact Dr. Ron Paul campaign or sent an email to Ron himself. And aren't there charities that fund people's education?

[Gee]

Don't rant about economic collapse. No one is going to believe that, and no one really knows if its going to happen or not. If it does, the primary causes will be Medicare and social security, not college funding.

Tell her that government funding of college is a direct transfer of wealth from the poor to the wealthy. Why should the people who don't get to go to college have to pay for the ones that do? Its really silly. If programs like federal college funding didn't exist, everyone would have more money to spend on things like college.

[bygone]

Mothers who want education for their daughters don't care about who the money gets taken from. They want their daughter to have the opportunity to go to school. This is why that argument fails.

I would explain that if you needed to borrow money for school, there are many places you can do this now, and there would be even more without government involvement in the process. I don't think your daughter would lose the opportunity to go to school, and probably would be able to keep more of the money she did make, as well as get a better job, more likely one in her chosen field, if things were to change.

Not only that, but if you kept more of the money you made, you could help more, and maybe your daughter could graduate college without the average $20k in debt students have at graduation.

Something like that.

[Electrostatic]

I usually remind people that the ONLY reason they have to take out government backed loans from FOR PROFIT corporate banks is because interstate credit unions are Illegal..... And then I remind them that Ron Paul does not want to end any program before it's replacement is already in place....

Then ask them whats wrong with removing regulations that keep not for profit student loans from being available from national scale credit unions (who will do their best to keep tuition low in the first place, as opposed to trying to put the students in as much debt as possible). Isn't that at least worth Trying?

[Akus]

Mothers who want education for their daughters don't care about who the money gets taken from. They want their daughter to have the opportunity to go to school. This is why that argument fails.

I would explain that if you needed to borrow money for school, there are many places you can do this now, and there would be even more without government involvement in the process. I don't think your daughter would lose the opportunity to go to school, and probably would be able to keep more of the money she did make, as well as get a better job, more likely one in her chosen field, if things were to change.

Not only that, but if you kept more of the money you made, you could help more, and maybe your daughter could graduate college without the average $20k in debt students have at graduation.

Something like that.


where?

[aknappjr]

If Government didn't provide these loans, private schools, charities, and companies would. And competition would lower the rate. Morally, however, is it fair that people who never go to college subsidize those middle and upper class people who DO?

[james1844]

All,

From what I gather, under a Paul presidency, there would be room for private and state lending. Whats all the debate about anyways? A small federal government with no educational system would leave little room for federal loans.

Best,

James

[AMack]

Yes talk about how the government's practice of giving out student loans to just about anyone actually contributes to the rising cost of college, and how it worsens the issue as a result. She would be able to better afford college for her daughter if the government hadn't started loaning like crazy in the first place.

[Sean]

Maybe her daughter can get a job and pay for her own education. Seriously many people actually do this. Many universities also offer work programs on campus. My sister used one of these. Also depending on the state that she lives in there can be low cost alternatives. There is nothing wrong with Junior College for the first two years and then transferring to a bigger university.

[angelatc]

The economic collapse currently underway will convince her. The national debt is 9 trillion dollars. That works out to about 100k per family. In a couple of years, there won't be any money left to fund that little girls education.

I have found that the stock reply to this is a combination of "it's war debt" and "we had a surplus when Clinton left."

[Korey Kaczynski]

College is a scam to waste 4+ years of your life, and thousands of dollars, having some communist professor slam "theories" down your throat for a little piece of paper that helps you get better jobs.

[micahnelson]

Just reply by saying,

"Ron Paul has a list of government programs to get the axe. He has said that the Student Loan program should be unnecessary, but won't use political clout to end it until many other things have been ended. By the time he gets to the student loan program, your daughter will be out of school and the economy would be doing so much better without the IRS that other sources of funding would be preferable."

[johnrocks]

Here in Louisiana we have a program that a child's college education is paid if they maintain a certain GPA and go to a state university, now if they want to go to Tulane or Harvard they are on their own. If we can do it any state in America should be able to w/o federal intervention.

[Lesgov]

micah stole my thunder:) In one interview Ron said although government funding for education had to be revamped, it was on the bottom of his list. There are many other things to tackle first.

[michaelwise]

I have found that the stock reply to this is a combination of "it's war debt" and "we had a surplus when Clinton left."

We had a surplus when Clinton left, because of the Dot-Com Bubble, and capitol gains collections. Are people so incredibly stupid and imbecilic and moronic that they cannot understand this.

[ThePieSwindler]

I have found that the stock reply to this is a combination of "it's war debt" and "we had a surplus when Clinton left."

Which are both wrong. This is the largest debt we've ever had, moreso than world war II even adjusting for inflation.. which was a MUCH bigger war... and clinton ran a surplus for ONE BUDGET YEAR... and only because the republican congress pressed him to do so. Clinton actually wanted to spend heavily and run a deficit, but the republican majority congress pressed him into accepting their budget proposal. So yeah. They fail.

[DisabledVet]

Tell her what Ron Paul wants:

1) Federal student loans means that money is taken from tax payers and loaned to students and the government makes a profit that it doesn't share with the folks it taxed to make the loans in the first place.

2) Eliminating Federal student loans will put the lending at the university level where it belongs... the university should be making the loans for its students which will in turn make more money for the university and allow them to increase services and facilities offered.

[atilla]

tell her that her daughter was only going to take some worthless liberal arts politically correct indoctrination anyway and that she will be better off going to train as an apprentice plumber.

[ronpaulitician]

Ask her how much their family paid in federal income taxes last year.

[shadowhooch]

As Federal Funding goes down, I gaurantee you both of these things will happen:

1) Price of education will go down.
2) Schools will offer MORE scholarships of their own to get you to go to their school. They WANT good students. Because good students get good jobs and consequently, make a lot of money and then hopefully donate it back to the school.

But to answer the direct question. I'd simply say that nothing will happen immediately. De-Federalization of Education costs will be eased into and the schools will pick up the slack.

[bygone]

where?

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