Illegal Immigration

[deshman]

I know that RP wants to make a "clear and easy path" to citizenship, but what does he want to do with all of the illegal immigrants that already live in the US, which are bankrupting our country?

[dsentell]

My take is that he wants them to just go home. Once we cut off all the incentives for them to come to the US, they no longer have any reason to come, nor do they have a reason to stay.

More info, anyone?

[Liberty_is_NORML]

They will have to go back home and get in at the end of the line. And that IS his position...

I think that is the only way to do it, anyway.

[nbhadja]

They came here by themselves illegally, so they can leave by themselves.

[Elwar]

"No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws."

Found at http://www.ronpaul2008.com

[firebirdnation]

Once the incentives are removed, they will deport themselves. Ron Paul will end the incentives and take care of this problem at the root. Of course a lot of people do not know this since Ron Paul has mentioned something about the economy and illegal immigration during the debates. During the debates he should say exactly what he says on his website so people know where he stands on this issue.

[Stealth4]

NO AMNESTY!!!
:mad:

[shadowhooch]

Yes, Ron Paul is for no amnesty and for denying illegal aliens taxpayer-funded benefits. Will he physically deport people? No. That is impractical. But by reducing the incentive by eliminating free handouts, the problem will sort itself out (as that is how free markets work).

If our economy is strong (even with denying benefits and amnesty), there will STILL be illegal immigrants coming here for the benefit of work. In that scenario, it is not necessarily a bad thing because a strong economy is starved for more workers.

If our economy is weak, illegal immigration will be less because fewer will see the benefits of coming here.

This is why Ron Paul frequently addresses immigration by mentioning that the welfare state is the main problem. If illegal immigrants couldn't get welfare or any other taxpayer benefits, they would have less incentive to come here -- especially in a weak economy.

[deshman]

what types of aide and does our Government give to illegal aliens? Free Health care? Free school for their children? What else?

[Lord Xar]

what types of aide and does our Government give to illegal aliens? Free Health care? Free school for their children? What else?

HUD housing - via anchor babies.
Food Stamps
Road and Hiway use
Police use

there are a LOT of peripheral benefits they get that are not quantified. Water and Electrical use -- and in many cases, they get reduced rates on those items.

We are facing electrical and water shortages in california. I wonder why NOBODY talks about this in relations to illegal immigration. I wonder if we would have these shortages if we didn't have all these dependents syphoning off the system.

I mean, the burden is tremendous.. absolutely tremendous.

[Voodoo]

I know that RP wants to make a "clear and easy path" to citizenship, but what does he want to do with all of the illegal immigrants that already live in the US, which are bankrupting our country?

The solution to a problem starts with the proper identification of the problem. Without picking on anybody, including OP, the vocabulary used masks the situation. The language used creates the illusion of a problem where there is none, and diverts attention from a real problem.

1) "Illegal immigrants" - no person, by virtue of existence, can be illegal. It is true that many people have committed the illegal act of crossing the cartographers' line at a point other than prscribed by law, however, that act does not make the person "illegal" any more than a person who performs an illegal U-turn.

If, as many do, you feel the undocumented status of some people who reside within the described boundaries of the united states is a problem, you should highlight that problem by using the term "undocumented" vice "illegal". In addition to being definitionally correct, "undocumented" shifts the focus from scapegoating to solution identification - namely streamlining identification and processing at official entrance points so the economic cost of an illegal border crossing makes it an unattractive proposition.

I would also suggest that "immigrant" denotes permanence. If the persons in question become permanent residents, then they are subject to the same incentives and motivations as the rest of the permanent population. Those persons can be no more of a problem and any other man, woman, or child in permanent residence. The persons who you more likely see as a problem are temporary residents for which the proper term is "migrant".

2. "[who] are bankrupting our country" - unless persons in undocumented status are voting or holding public office, this statement incorrectly attributes legislative and bureaucratic failures to that population. They had nothing to do with the availability of wealth distribution programs and it seems the height of hippocracy to suggest that they should somehow restrain themselves from participating in programs to which they are currently (legally) entitled. Restraint should have, and by financial necessity now will, come from the voters, politicians, and bureaucrats.

There is no dispute over the fact that persons in undocumented status are a net gain to the economy and wealth creation in the united states. The only disputed allegations are that these persons and the businesses which employ them pay less to government coffers than the largess they receive. Private enterprises like grocery and shoe stores benefit from this population; only the government programs are supposedly overwhelmed. Again, proper problem identification shows that the real problem is mismanagement of these programs (or, more likely, their very existence) not the number of program users.

Until the "bankrupting our country" language exits the lexicon in relation to undocumented migrants, no solution will properly address the real problem.

3. "amnesty" - I fully agree that no one should be given amnesty. The politicians and bureaucrats who were entrusted with the responsibility of identifying and managing the flow of migrants have failed miserably and should be held accountable, not given amnesty. Any private company or employee who failed in this manner would have long since been kicked to the curb.

With regards to a citizenship path, however, affording or not affording amnesty to undocumented migrants has no tangible benefit or penalty on the flow of human capital. Labor migration will always trend toward optimum based on the economic incentives.

Anything that tends to drive up the price of labor (factory raids, minimum wage laws, etc.) or government benefits available act as economic incentives for humans to move toward that market. Increased consumer prices and weakening labor markets are incentives to migrate out of that market, and, indeed, we are already seeing that trend occur.

The practical effect of "amnesty" is a humanitarian one; it allows people to come from the shadows and assert themselves as humans with rights. All the observations about "amnesty" from the '80s failing to stem the tide of undocumented migration to the united states is certainly not surprising, considering any economic benefit or cost of such a program has been overwhelmed by a dysfunctional immigration bureaucracy and 20 years of strong demand for labor.


I'm sorry this ended up so long, and I hope it's not too preachy, but I really feel that mis-identification of this particular "problem" is rooted in the vocabulary. The common vocabulary used is particularly designed to de-humanize the migrant population.

[Carl Corey]

People who illegally cross the borders are breaking the law, hence criminals. They should be deported if caught and never ever allowed back in, not even at the end of the line. There's really no need for criminal immigrants.

[nbhadja]

Illegal immigrants will leave with no benefits, and should have to stand in the back of the line for legal immigration as punishment.

[morerocklesstalk]

Ron Paul's plan will help end the problem. The idea of a fence stopping anyone is just silly, you need to address the reasons and problems why people are coming illegally. I however don't feel that all illegal immigrants are hardened criminals by any means, they have a crooked gov't in Mexico and need money. Most send money back to their families to put food on the table. This is not an excuse but I would never put an illegal immigrant in the same category as the rapists and theives we put back on the street on a daily basis.

[deshman]

i agree with ^. I do not feel that they are in the same category at all, but nonetheless are illegal. You cannot blame them for wanting a better life for their families in a better country. I just think that it should be documented and legal. There should be a clear path to citizenship for migrants.