How do you see America?

[jorlowitz]

Well, I guess I missed the poll button. If you want to answer or respond to the following questions, I thought people on the forum would like to know...

-Do you think America is under attack from non-white, non-english speaking immigrants?
-Do you think America is or should be primarily or exclusively a white, english-speaking nation?
-Do you think the message of Liberty exists to protect every citizen or to allow certain citizens to advance messages that advocate freedoms for only certain 'qualified' Americans?
-Do you identify as a white nationalist?
-Do you think racism is a problem or part of a larger government-created dysfunction (or you think racism is legitimate and you see other races as the problem)?
-Do you think governments should never advance messages of tolerance or seek to limit intolerance?
-Are you bothered by being part of a political movement in which some of your fellow supporters are white nationalists?

I think this issue is brooding and the Stormfront article and the responses to that thread dealt with parts of it. I'd like to know more about it...

[micahnelson]

All men are created equal and endowed by their creator certain unalienable rights, among these rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

There is nothing "white" about America. A majority of the early settlers here were white. White isn't a nationality. I am not concerned about preservation of the white race. Liberty isn't a white thing. I don't want to go overboard with it, but I believe the obsession of with collective rights clouds our understanding of individual rights.

I welcome people of all nations and colors into our country.

What is it to be American? You may move to Germany, but you will never be considered a German. You may move to Japan, but you will never be Japanese. But, if you journey to America with determination and strong work ethics, if you start a business or a career here, if you teach your kids to love freedom and support the cause of Liberty then you are as American as any other citizen of this great nation.

The immigration problems we face today are two fold. The first is our social safety net. We cannot afford to pay for our citizens, let alone noncitizens. This is a problem of our welfare system, not of the people crossing the border. Any serious immigration reform must begin at the welfare office. It is unamerican to reward lack of labor with financial reward. This leads to my second point, the problem of assimilation. People coming to this country must embody the American Spirit, which as far as I'm concerned is a desire to work, a desire to better oneself, and a working knowledge of the English Language. This gives us a common ground to start from. It is hard to impose this on immigrants when many citizens fail three out of three of these standards.

How do we solve these problems? More Liberty. Encourage people in America to pursue their dreams and unshackle the raging beast that is American determination. It has been docile for far too long. Restore hope and you will restore jobs, opportunities, and real wealth. Then, when employment nears 100% we will be begging for immigrants to come and share in our success.

Those willing to trade hard work for Liberty should always be welcome in a free America.

[Ron Paul Fan]

I refuse to answer these questions on the basis that I think it will divide the forum even more. The freedom message brings us together, it doesn't divide us. I don't care if people that support Ron Paul are racists or not. That's their belief and no one will be able to change that. Ron Paul is not a racist so what does it matter what other people in the forum believe if our common goal is to get him elected?

The white nationalists are going to support a candidate and if Ron Paul is their man then good. Just because they support Dr. Paul doesn't mean he's a white nationalist, just like because the 9/11 truthers support him doesn't mean he believes what they do. We need to get over thinking of people as groups and start thinking of people as individuals, and every individual should be treated the same way whether they're a racist, 9/11 truther, black, gay, woman, etc. We have a lot of individuals on this forum who support Ron Paul period.

[nullvalu]

Thank you Ron Paul Fan. Segmentation can only hurt our end goal. This is the same reason why things like affirmative action have done nothing in this country to help end racism, and in fact has only promoted it. The more we see ourselves as groups and not individuals, the further we are driven apart.

[beermotor]

"White nationalist" = "fucking socialist" = "useless, please recycle biological materials kthxbye".

/end

It only bothers me insofar as these people act like I'm on their team, because I am a honkey. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nullvalu's last sentence is right on. Racism and/or racialism are just products of government intervention. Remove that, and people naturally will trade with each other in peace, and tolerance will be spontaneous. Of course the Constitution says we ought to permit any kind of speech - even the ridiculous drivel promoted by "white nationalists" - but that doesn't mean I don't have a right to constantly attack it for the stupid, idiotic tripe that it is.

[DeadheadForPaul]

"Racism is an ugly form of collectivism." - Ron Paul

[mdh]

I an honorary black and honorary gay.

What I mean by this is that I am actually white and not gay. But I will say I am if it will annoy some asshats who don't like blacks or gays. :p

[ThePieSwindler]

I an honorary black and honorary gay.

What I mean by this is that I am actually white and not gay. But I will say I am if it will annoy some asshats who don't like blacks or gays. :p

Good irl trolling technique

[sylvania]

I will not be baited by these types of questions any longer. We all have differences. I would rather focus on what I have in common with others.

A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular.
Adlai E. Stevenson

I would like to live in that society, how about you?

[LibertyOfOne]

-Do you think America is under attack from non-white, non-english speaking immigrants? No
-Do you think America is or should be primarily or exclusively a white, english-speaking nation? No, ideally we should be a mixed bag, but not by force of course.
-Do you think the message of Liberty exists to protect every citizen or to allow certain citizens to advance messages that advocate freedoms for only certain 'qualified' Americans? Liberty for all or liberty for none
-Do you identify as a white nationalist? No
-Do you think racism is a problem or part of a larger government-created dysfunction (or you think racism is legitimate and you see other races as the problem)? A problem that is intensified by government action. Favoritism based on groups further drives the wedge
-Do you think governments should never advance messages of tolerance or seek to limit intolerance? Government could advance a message of tolerance, but should'nt use force to trample on free speech.
-Are you bothered by being part of a political movement in which some of your fellow supporters are white nationalists? No, being that they do not represent the whole of the liberty movement. I feel they are classed into being a part of the movement by outsiders, but most of them don't follow the ideals of liberty so I couldn't consider them a legitimate part of it.

[quickmike]

I see America as a huge group of welfare recipients who say "We need to cut government control over our lives!!!!" but when it comes time to cut government out of their lives, they say "Oh, I didnt mean THAT government control, we need the government to do things like that. Im talking about the OTHER things." So everyone wants to cut, but nobody wants the cuts to have anything to do with something that effects them. Farmers like small govt........... unless it means no more subsidies. etc etc etc................. and the list goes on.

Americans talk alot of shit, but when it comes down to change, they run back into their corners. This my friends, is America.

[MattFEAST]

Like this:

http://feasteternal.com/IronCurtain.jpg

[ChooseLiberty]

Hilarious.

Races are an artificial construct. Everyone originates from Africa. Unless you are a Reptilian of course.:D

All the government focus on race just reinforces tribalism. The US government is the most racist entity in the US, maybe the world.


Like this:

http://feasteternal.com/IronCurtain.jpg

[mdh]

-Are you bothered by being part of a political movement in which some of your fellow supporters are white nationalists? No, being that they do not represent the whole of the liberty movement. I feel they are classed into being a part of the movement by outsiders, but most of them don't follow the ideals of liberty so I couldn't consider them a legitimate part of it.

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement - the "white nationalist" movement is its' own thing that stupid people clump together with the patriot/freedom movement because they are idiots. If you read stuff on stormfront.org or other white nationalist sites, their rhetoric is wholly different from ours. Many of them go so far as to advocate government force to enforce their own ideologies, which is the antithesis of what libertarians, Ron Paul, and the vast majority of the patriot movement preaches.

I think what a lot of coastal elites who work with entities like the Southern Poverty Law Center (one of the most noxious racist hate groups in the US today, by the way) see are people who are different from them - people from rural areas, etc - and class us all together as rednecks, gun owners, conservatives, libertarians, and whatever else - and associate that to racism. Anyone who is not like them must be a racist, in their twisted world view.

[MattFEAST]

Unless you are a Reptilian of course.:D


LOL <weird background music> LOL;)

[jorlowitz]

MDH...

Good point. I think the concern was more about the line between WN and Patriot being blurred on this forum and with some onlookers acting as if the distinction didn't matter so long as it advanced RP.

I'm still pretty skeptical about this idea that "governments encourage tribalism". It seems almost uniquely naive to think that all governments do when they recognize race is to make matters worse. I'm not saying there are drawbacks to grouping people and specializing policies for different groups, but come on... seriously, where would African Americans be in this country if it had not been for government intervention??? There's a tremendous role that governments play regarding race and I'd be very interested to hear an explanation that ALL of it has just made matters worse (particularly for "races" that were oppressed or deprived of rights). It also seems like it could be a drawback of this ardent libertarianism that time-sensitive issues cannot be dealt with; for example, what may be appropriate to promote equality at one point becomes counterproductive at another (like a sunset clause). I'm just throwing the last point out there, but disputing that any government recognition and regulation regarding race is EVER beneficial seems like a big task.

[Carbine556]

-Do you think America is under attack from non-white, non-english speaking immigrants?

Yes.


-Do you think America is or should be primarily or exclusively a white, english-speaking nation?

I think America should be an English speaking nation, yes. The massive influx of non-European immigrants is a relatively recent event though, slaves and Chinese notwithstanding.


-Do you think the message of Liberty exists to protect every citizen or to allow certain citizens to advance messages that advocate freedoms for only certain 'qualified' Americans?

The message of Liberty exists for every citizen in this country. Nobody should be excluded from their right to observe the freedoms they choose to observe for any reason. Someone's personal beliefs, race, or lifestyle choices mean nothing to me.


-Do you identify as a white nationalist?

Pretty much. Well, it depends on what you mean. Am I a stereotypical evil Nazi who wants to murder six million jews and blacks and anyone else that isn't White? No. Am I going to burn a cross in my neighbor's yard? No. But I do accept and embrace my own people, heritage, and culture at the exclusion of any other culture that I don't racially identify with. I don't hate them, of course, but I have my hands full with my own cultural practices to deal with anyone else's.


-Do you think racism is a problem or part of a larger government-created dysfunction (or you think racism is legitimate and you see other races as the problem)?

I don't think racism is a problem, I think people that make a living on racial tensions are a problem. Everything that happens is about race to them. Racism is going to exist as long as there is "diversity" in this country.


-Do you think governments should never advance messages of tolerance or seek to limit intolerance?

No. Government can't enforce tolerance on people without making certain thoughts illegal. You can't force anyone to do anything without creating a certain level of resentment. Your own kids are a good example. The fact is, everyone in this country has the right to be offended at some point. It's going to happen. Grow some stones and if someone offends you in any way or for any reason, so what.


-Are you bothered by being part of a political movement in which some of your fellow supporters are white nationalists?

Well, no. Personally, I'm not bothered that some of my fellow supporters are liberals, homosexuals, blacks, or any other groups.

[Revolution9]

Hilarious.

Races are an artificial construct. Everyone originates from Africa. Unless you are a Reptilian of course.:D

All the government focus on race just reinforces tribalism. The US government is the most racist entity in the US, maybe the world.

Umm.. That is mildly insulting but you do not know better I assume. The Cellts are neither Reptilian nor from the African genesis.

Best Regards
Randy

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

I dont care about race. I dislike people because of their ideas and culture, not their skin.

[NCGOPer_for_Paul]

I'll answer this because I'm honest, although I don't necessarily like the questions.

-Do you think America is under attack from non-white, non-english speaking immigrants? Yes, I do. If people would actually take the time and actually understand what's going on, rather than focus on the "they come here for a better life" stuff, maybe some would wake up.

-Do you think America is or should be primarily or exclusively a white, english-speaking nation?English speaking, yes. Skin color does not matter.

-Do you think the message of Liberty exists to protect every citizen or to allow certain citizens to advance messages that advocate freedoms for only certain 'qualified' Americans?Absolutely not. The Constitution exists to protect every CITIZEN.

-Do you identify as a white nationalist?No. However, I am proud of my heritage and feel it is something I shouldn't have to apologize for.

-Do you think racism is a problem or part of a larger government-created dysfunction (or you think racism is legitimate and you see other races as the problem)?Racism has existed since Day One. A minority of people are always going to be jerks and try to put themselves above someone else. It's not right, but it's human nature, unfortunately. Governments exacerbate the problem by forcing "diversity" and other socialist "feel-good" programs which just lead to more animosity between races. Most people just want to be left alone. Most people ignore intolerant behavior, and those who don't should just be marganalized.

-Do you think governments should never advance messages of tolerance or seek to limit intolerance?This is not a role of government. If a group of CITIZENS become victims of racial attacks, then government, though the legal authority of police, should arrest the perpetrators on assault charges, not any "hate crime" laws.

-Are you bothered by being part of a political movement in which some of your fellow supporters are white nationalists?Somewhat