My Homeowner association requesting Ron Paul yard signs be taken down!!!

[mweldon]

Apparently my homeowner's association has put forth a more or less direct challenge to my display of a Ron Paul for President campaign sign in my yard.

Yesterday in the mail I received the quarterly homeowners newsletter which contained a section that read as follows:

SIGNS

Please be reminded of Paragraph 6.8, a portion of which reads:
"6.8.1 No signs whatsoever (including but not limited to commercial and similar signs) shll, withouth the architectural commitee's prior written approval of plans and specifications therefore, be installed, altered or maintained on any lLot, or on any portion of a Structure visible from the exterior thereof."

The Board, and previous Boards, think that this prohibition includes political signs, so please do not place political signs in your yards."

First, my yard is the ONLY yard in my 96 lot subdivision that has a political sign of any type. So it is fairly obvious who this section is directed against.

Second, I cannot base any counter argument to this based on federal or state constitutional law regarding free speech or violation of public policy as every home owner association covenant agreement forcibly removes all remedy to the covenants via a constitutional path. (yes I'm a dummy, but go read your home owner covenants and 99% chance yours does the same thing. The next house I purchase will either not be in a subdivision or I will explicitly not sign or partially sign the next set) Please see (BRYAN v. MBC PARTNERS, L.P.)

Third, there have been numerous commercial signs placed on lots throughout the neighborhood in the past without homeowner policy enforcement. However enforcement seems to be highly subjective and at the whim of the Homeowners Association. Once again please see (BRYAN v. MBC PARTNERS, L.P.)

However, as pre-law student at one time, the statement of "including but no limited to" is a phrase/term of "limited expansion". Which can be defined that as the term “expansion” applies to things that are already generally described in the definition of whatever is being defined, even if a thing is not specifically named in the definition. For example, in the context of "dinner", dinner will be defined as including but not limited to apples, pears, peaches, and bananas. Therefore one can bring in additional items such as mangos, kiwis, grapes etc... as those items are similar in nature to the list, however, broccili, steak, potato's etc.. cannot due to their nature being manifestly different that the stated list of terms.

Ok given this, the Homeowners Association can only restrict signs of a commercial nature so I plan on writing a brief and polite rebuttal inquiring to the legal definition of the statement "commercial and similar signs" with regards to the afore mentioned definition of the term.

If this path is less than fruitful, I can always put up a flag hanging off my house with Ron Paul < whatever > as it seems that people can adorn their lots with american, state, seasonal, or alma mater flags about their houses.

However, I cannot find a single vendor that sells Ron Paul flags of any substantial size. Any help here would be appreciated.

Anyone else encounter these types of Home Owner issues, actions, etc..??

I will at this time refrain from giving out the Home Owner Associations email address for Paul'er comments unless a remedy of some sort cannot be achieved. :D

Thoughts? Comments?

[Redcard]

It's the rule, man.

You should have gotten it approved.. and read your covenant agreement more closely.

As for the other signs, how do you know they haven't gotten apporval?

[NoMoreApathy]

Um, do you own your property?

How can someone tell you that you can't put something on your own property?

[jenninlouisiana]

It's the rule. My assn. has a same rule.... no signs, only "for sale" signs.

Deal.

[mrchubbs]

What state are you in?

[fj45lvr]

put your sign in the window of your car and park it in the driveway or on the street.


If they try to pull crap for that check out how many stickers are on autos in the neighborhood.

[emk]

Um, do you own your property?

How can someone tell you that you can't put something on your own property?

Condominium = homeowner's association = you don't really own your property, just the right to use it.

[LizC]

Apparently my homeowner's association has put forth a more or less direct challenge to my display of a Ron Paul for President campaign sign in my yard.

Yesterday in the mail I received the quarterly homeowners newsletter which contained a section that read as follows:

SIGNS

Please be reminded of Paragraph 6.8, a portion of which reads:
"6.8.1 No signs whatsoever (including but not limited to commercial and similar signs) shll, withouth the architectural commitee's prior written approval of plans and specifications therefore, be installed, altered or maintained on any lLot, or on any portion of a Structure visible from the exterior thereof."

The Board, and previous Boards, think that this prohibition includes political signs, so please do not place political signs in your yards."

First, my yard is the ONLY yard in my 96 lot subdivision that has a political sign of any type. So it is fairly obvious who this section is directed against.

Second, I cannot base any counter argument to this based on federal or state constitutional law regarding free speech or violation of public policy as every home owner association covenant agreement forcibly removes all remedy to the covenants via a constitutional path. (yes I'm a dummy, but go read your home owner covenants and 99% chance yours does the same thing. The next house I purchase will either not be in a subdivision or I will explicitly not sign or partially sign the next set) Please see (BRYAN v. MBC PARTNERS, L.P.)

Third, there have been numerous commercial signs placed on lots throughout the neighborhood in the past without homeowner policy enforcement. However enforcement seems to be highly subjective and at the whim of the Homeowners Association. Once again please see (BRYAN v. MBC PARTNERS, L.P.)

However, as pre-law student at one time, the statement of "including but no limited to" is a phrase/term of "limited expansion". Which can be defined that as the term “expansion” applies to things that are already generally described in the definition of whatever is being defined, even if a thing is not specifically named in the definition. For example, in the context of "dinner", dinner will be defined as including but not limited to apples, pears, peaches, and bananas. Therefore one can bring in additional items such as mangos, kiwis, grapes etc... as those items are similar in nature to the list, however, broccili, steak, potato's etc.. cannot due to their nature being manifestly different that the stated list of terms.

Ok given this, the Homeowners Association can only restrict signs of a commercial nature so I plan on writing a brief and polite rebuttal inquiring to the legal definition of the statement "commercial and similar signs" with regards to the afore mentioned definition of the term.

If this path is less than fruitful, I can always put up a flag hanging off my house with Ron Paul < whatever > as it seems that people can adorn their lots with american, state, seasonal, or alma mater flags about their houses.

However, I cannot find a single vendor that sells Ron Paul flags of any substantial size. Any help here would be appreciated.

Anyone else encounter these types of Home Owner issues, actions, etc..??

I will at this time refrain from giving out the Home Owner Associations email address for Paul'er comments unless a remedy of some sort cannot be achieved. :D

Thoughts? Comments?

Well...you have to take it down but is there any mention that says you can't plaster your car with bumper stickers? At least that way you are still getting the message out when you are at home!!!!

[RonPaulCult]

You can't sign away your rights.

[Dave Wood]

One of your assanine neighbors complained. Had the same thing happen with my HOA. Look out, some hoa`s carry some clout, if you signed off on the covenance when you bought your house "most likely" then you are bound. It will stand up in court, they will win.

[jenninlouisiana]

Um, do you own your property?

How can someone tell you that you can't put something on your own property?

Because when you buy a home that is in a subdivision, you are WILLINGLY agreeing to the covenants, in which some assn.s can put a LIEN on your house if you don't follow the rules. They can also take you to court for not following the rules or not paying fines.

When I closed on my house, we were TOLD by the closing atty. that these rules ARE enforceable.

His covenants have that rule; he HAS to abide by it.

[tekmo]

Ugh, I despise HOA's

[Paulitical Correctness]

What about landscaping?

You could get hedges or something shaped into "RP08" or something.

[mcgraw_wv]

Hey I know this sucks, bu tI live in one too...

What you CAN do is park on the street and put a sign on your car! Just tape a sign on your car, and park on the street... Just as visible, maybe even more so effective.

[Redcard]

You can't sign away your rights.

You don't have the right to put signs up. Trust me, this one has been fought multiple times. Take the yard sign down, find a different way.

[Redcard]

Ugh, I despise HOA's

Free Market FTW. You don't have to live there if you don't want to.

[InLoveWithRon]

The system sucks.. Where is the freedom of expression ? You can't even put up a sign who you support where you live because of a stupid association..

Communism


.

[Cleaner44]

Stall and delay on complying as long as possible.

[Redcard]

The system sucks.. Where is the freedom of expression ? You can't even put up a sign who you support where you live because of a stupid association..

Communism


.

That's not communism. It's called a free market, and our candidate supports the right for businesses to operate as they please. Businesses like the HOA. If you don't like the HOA, move.

[Dave Wood]

My hoa says you cant even have "placards" on vehicles. Not even business names.

[Eponym_mi]

It seems to me the worst that could happen is them taking you to court. They might win and you might have to take the sign down and pay their legal expenses, but by then, the primary might be over. You might have some pissed off neighbors too. I guess it depends on how much you think they'd push it and your perception of the risks.

[mcgraw_wv]

The system sucks.. Where is the freedom of expression ? You can't even put up a sign who you support where you live because of a stupid association..

Communism


.

The point of a HOA, is to band together in order to maximize your property value. It's not forced, no one forces anyone to move into one, its a collective agreement that takes into account what makes the most sense for property value preservation for all... which typically removes most individual expression...

But it's choice... no one forces anyone to live in one.

[Dorfsmith]

Find a way around the rule. Put your sign in your front window or something. My HOA had rules about yard signs so I moved the sign to my window and they couldn't do anything about it except give me dirty looks :D

[angelatc]

You can't sign away your rights.

The government can't make a law to prohibit free speech. Private organizations can. It was part of the deal you agreed to when you purchased your house there.

I'm actually ok with it. I'd rather live next to a guy who's grass is a little too long than a guy who sharpens the blade every time he cuts it. But not everybody shares that sentiment, and that's ok too, as long as they stay in their little enclaves and only tell each other what not to do.

[the_bee]

Apparently my homeowner's association has put forth a more or less direct challenge to my display of a Ron Paul for President campaign sign in my yard.

Yesterday in the mail I received the quarterly homeowners newsletter which contained a section that read as follows:

SIGNS

Please be reminded of Paragraph 6.8, a portion of which reads:
"6.8.1 No signs whatsoever (including but not limited to commercial and similar signs) shll, withouth the architectural commitee's prior written approval of plans and specifications therefore, be installed, altered or maintained on any lLot, or on any portion of a Structure visible from the exterior thereof."

The Board, and previous Boards, think that this prohibition includes political signs, so please do not place political signs in your yards."

First, my yard is the ONLY yard in my 96 lot subdivision that has a political sign of any type. So it is fairly obvious who this section is directed against.

Second, I cannot base any counter argument to this based on federal or state constitutional law regarding free speech or violation of public policy as every home owner association covenant agreement forcibly removes all remedy to the covenants via a constitutional path. (yes I'm a dummy, but go read your home owner covenants and 99% chance yours does the same thing. The next house I purchase will either not be in a subdivision or I will explicitly not sign or partially sign the next set) Please see (BRYAN v. MBC PARTNERS, L.P.)

Third, there have been numerous commercial signs placed on lots throughout the neighborhood in the past without homeowner policy enforcement. However enforcement seems to be highly subjective and at the whim of the Homeowners Association. Once again please see (BRYAN v. MBC PARTNERS, L.P.)

However, as pre-law student at one time, the statement of "including but no limited to" is a phrase/term of "limited expansion". Which can be defined that as the term “expansion” applies to things that are already generally described in the definition of whatever is being defined, even if a thing is not specifically named in the definition. For example, in the context of "dinner", dinner will be defined as including but not limited to apples, pears, peaches, and bananas. Therefore one can bring in additional items such as mangos, kiwis, grapes etc... as those items are similar in nature to the list, however, broccili, steak, potato's etc.. cannot due to their nature being manifestly different that the stated list of terms.

Ok given this, the Homeowners Association can only restrict signs of a commercial nature so I plan on writing a brief and polite rebuttal inquiring to the legal definition of the statement "commercial and similar signs" with regards to the afore mentioned definition of the term.

If this path is less than fruitful, I can always put up a flag hanging off my house with Ron Paul < whatever > as it seems that people can adorn their lots with american, state, seasonal, or alma mater flags about their houses.

However, I cannot find a single vendor that sells Ron Paul flags of any substantial size. Any help here would be appreciated.

Anyone else encounter these types of Home Owner issues, actions, etc..??

I will at this time refrain from giving out the Home Owner Associations email address for Paul'er comments unless a remedy of some sort cannot be achieved. :D

Thoughts? Comments?

tell them to fuck off, and do what you want too, think about it there is nothing they can do about it !!

[mcgraw_wv]

My hoa says you cant even have "placards" on vehicles. Not even business names.

Then just place the signs at the front of the entrance near the public road where it is public domain....

Just as effective, maybe even more so since there is more passer by traffic!

[CelestialRender]

You can't sign away your rights.

That argument doesn't fly. The states signed away their right to make war when they joined the USA. I would imagine there are better precedents in individual rights, but I can't think of any at the moment.

Bottom line: If you signed a homeowner's agreement, just give up on the sign issue. Go sign wave on public streets instead, or whatever it takes.

[amy31416]

You mentioned that you can fly a flag?

Make a Ron Paul flag, it can't be that hard. A piece of nylon or other heavy gauge weather-proof material, get it silkscreened with whatever you want at one of those local places.

Post pics!

I think this is a great idea and will probably do this here myself.

Thanks for the inspiration!

Oh, and bumper stickers are great too....magnets if you don't want to wreck your paint.

[CelestialRender]

tell them to fuck off, and do what you want too, think about it there is nothing they can do about it !!

Except remove your right to live in your home.

Think before you give people terrible, terrible advice.

[robert4rp08]

Seems like your bound by that agreement. A loophole might be in the definition of a sign as you suggest with the flag idea. You can also paint a "Ron Paul sign" on your lawn/roof/driveway. Or you can "weed wack" Ron Paul into your yard, haha. You can use window chalk to paint a sign on your house windows. You can put a "banner" on the side of your house/garage door.

What about your car? You can put signs all over your car (it's not a structure!) and leave it in the driveway/road. What about seasonal decorations? There's always a holiday somewhere. You can make a generic holiday yard ornament and Ron Paul it up.

P.S. I have no experience as a home owner. Just some thoughts that came to me.

[pinkmandy]

Third, there have been numerous commercial signs placed on lots throughout the neighborhood in the past without homeowner policy enforcement. However enforcement seems to be highly subjective and at the whim of the Homeowners Association.

I would write a letter letting them know that you expect these covenants to be enforced for everyone.

And then get creative. No signs? Fine. Decorate your car, windows, doors, roof (Christmas lights?), read those covenants and find a loophole.

[TSOL]

put your sign in the window of your car and park it in the driveway or on the street.


If they try to pull crap for that check out how many stickers are on autos in the neighborhood.

Exactly

HOA rules are what they are; bullshit rules, but they also prevent your neighbors from painting their house Hot Pink.

Put the sign in your cars REAR WINDOW when at home.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Ok given this, the Homeowners Association can only restrict signs of a commercial nature so I plan on writing a brief and polite rebuttal inquiring to the legal definition of the statement "commercial and similar signs" with regards to the afore mentioned definition of the term.

If this path is less than fruitful, I can always put up a flag hanging off my house with Ron Paul < whatever > as it seems that people can adorn their lots with american, state, seasonal, or alma mater flags about their houses.

However, I cannot find a single vendor that sells Ron Paul flags of any substantial size. Any help here would be appreciated.


Put a giant decal on your car. They're about $30-$40 on ebay, look good, and they're way more effective than a yard sign. I wouldn't even bother writing them, or whatever. Just get a big window decal. They probably can't say anything about it, and you'll also be reaching people when you drive instead of the same people who pass your house every day.

[Brewskie]

This is where libertarianism and myself separate.

I happen to believe that my Rights are inalienable. They can't be taken, bartered, stolen, signed away or compromised.

As far as I'm concerned these Homeowners Associations can kiss my butt.

[hawks4ronpaul]

My hoa says you cant even have "placards" on vehicles. Not even business names.

You mean your Fords cannot say "Ford"?

Carmaker name
Auto dealer name
AAA sticker
university parking sticker
HOA sticker
Sunblocking screens
bumper stickers

Police cars and ambulances are not allowed in until they repaint their vehicles a solid color?

http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/

[amy31416]

One of your assanine neighbors complained. Had the same thing happen with my HOA. Look out, some hoa`s carry some clout, if you signed off on the covenance when you bought your house "most likely" then you are bound. It will stand up in court, they will win.

You wouldn't happen to live in MD, would you?

[pcosmar]

Apparently my homeowner's association has put forth a more or less direct challenge to my display of a Ron Paul for President campaign sign in my yard.



Thoughts? Comments?

Sell your house and buy one with no HOA.
That shit is worse than renting.

[the_bee]

Except remove your right to live in your home.

Think before you give people terrible, terrible advice.


Look this is the exact problem we are all facing with everything! the reason this kind of crap keeps happening is people just put up with this kind of shit and besides you cannot sign away and god given right, one other thing to think about is it takes time for all the so called legal crap to happen by then the election will be over

[DAFTEK]

My covenant has nothing as far as signs, but i did go a step up to put 3 large signs in my garage windows that face the street besides the yard sign :D

[robert4rp08]

This is where libertarianism and myself separate.

I happen to believe that my Rights are inalienable. They can't be taken, bartered, stolen, signed away or compromised.

As far as I'm concerned these Homeowners Associations can kiss my butt.

Part of being free is the Freedom to Contract and as such by entering into a contract you are bound to the contract, even if it means surrendering some of your rights since you chose, under free will, to enter into the contract.

[Thomas Paine]

Condominium = homeowner's association = you don't really own your property, just the right to use it.

That's exactly right. This is why I would never live in an association.

[Thomas Paine]

This is where libertarianism and myself separate.

I happen to believe that my Rights are inalienable. They can't be taken, bartered, stolen, signed away or compromised.

As far as I'm concerned these Homeowners Associations can kiss my butt.

The Homeowners Association can and will sue you and make you pay their attorney fees. Trust me. I know. I am a trial attorney with experience in association lawsuits.

[wowabunga]

Do what I did several years ago.... have never felt better.... who needs those cookie cutter neighbors anyway.... MOVE...!

[the_bee]

The Homeowners Association can and will sue you and make you pay their attorney fees. Trust me. I know. I am a trial attorney with experience in association lawsuits.

How long would that take?

[ecliptic]

put your sign in the window of your car and park it in the driveway or on the street.

Good advice. You have to follow the HOA rules is what I've heard. Not an expert but everything I've read says you are bound by HOA rules and likely signed away some of your rights in the HOA agreement.

We Americans don't always realize it but every time we sign a Government or HOA or "Housing Authority" or "Family Law" { scum... } etc. etc. document we are signing away our rights. I for one am declaring an indefinite boycott of signing-away-of-my-rights. I am carefully and methodically dropping out of "the system" altogether no matter what additional hassles this will entail. I am currently in the research and development phase. I plan to rescind my social security number, eliminate all licenses and contracts with the state or federal government, cease all interaction with the corporate surveillance / banking system, and otherwise cease signing away my rights. In this phase I am researching all information regarding privacy and "dropping out" strategically. In addition I am seeking to essentially become the best Pro Se litigant the crooked court system has ever seen. Aim high. "Go for the jugular" ( thinking like a lawyer already, you see... ). I propose anyone with the "right stuff" follow this path. It will be difficult and problematic for you if you do.... but challenging the crooked Judiciary Branch ( and it's hideously de-formed step-cousin the Legislative Branch ) are part of the "next level" of battle in the Restoration of the Constitution.

I do not recommend anyone else do this without very careful consideration of all the ramifications. Beware good patriots! Join me if you can... but only after you fully understand what is involved. This is the next level of rloveution. Are you made of the right stuff?

[Thomas Paine]

How long would that take?

A good lawyer for the association will get a temporary restraining order (or similar) within three days after filing the lawsuit with a local court of competent jurisdiction. Depending on the state, there may not even be a hearing for getting the temporary restraining order. Failure for the homeowner to comply with the TRO will be considered contempt of court. Within a couple of weeks, there will be a hearing for preliminary injunction, which is essentially an opportunity for the homeowner to persuade the court as to why the signs should remain up until trial. If the association bylaws are clear and unambiguous, the court will issue an order for preliminary injunction and leave the temporary restraining order in place. In the meantime, the Association's attorney will have racked up $5,000 to $10,000 in attorney fees, which the homeowner will eventually be forced to pay via a judgment.

[pacelli]

2 words: Private property.

2 more words: Civil disobedience.


Apparently my homeowner's association has put forth a more or less direct challenge to my display of a Ron Paul for President campaign sign in my yard.

Yesterday in the mail I received the quarterly homeowners newsletter which contained a section that read as follows:

SIGNS

Please be reminded of Paragraph 6.8, a portion of which reads:
"6.8.1 No signs whatsoever (including but not limited to commercial and similar signs) shll, withouth the architectural commitee's prior written approval of plans and specifications therefore, be installed, altered or maintained on any lLot, or on any portion of a Structure visible from the exterior thereof."

The Board, and previous Boards, think that this prohibition includes political signs, so please do not place political signs in your yards."

First, my yard is the ONLY yard in my 96 lot subdivision that has a political sign of any type. So it is fairly obvious who this section is directed against.

Second, I cannot base any counter argument to this based on federal or state constitutional law regarding free speech or violation of public policy as every home owner association covenant agreement forcibly removes all remedy to the covenants via a constitutional path. (yes I'm a dummy, but go read your home owner covenants and 99% chance yours does the same thing. The next house I purchase will either not be in a subdivision or I will explicitly not sign or partially sign the next set) Please see (BRYAN v. MBC PARTNERS, L.P.)

Third, there have been numerous commercial signs placed on lots throughout the neighborhood in the past without homeowner policy enforcement. However enforcement seems to be highly subjective and at the whim of the Homeowners Association. Once again please see (BRYAN v. MBC PARTNERS, L.P.)

However, as pre-law student at one time, the statement of "including but no limited to" is a phrase/term of "limited expansion". Which can be defined that as the term “expansion” applies to things that are already generally described in the definition of whatever is being defined, even if a thing is not specifically named in the definition. For example, in the context of "dinner", dinner will be defined as including but not limited to apples, pears, peaches, and bananas. Therefore one can bring in additional items such as mangos, kiwis, grapes etc... as those items are similar in nature to the list, however, broccili, steak, potato's etc.. cannot due to their nature being manifestly different that the stated list of terms.

Ok given this, the Homeowners Association can only restrict signs of a commercial nature so I plan on writing a brief and polite rebuttal inquiring to the legal definition of the statement "commercial and similar signs" with regards to the afore mentioned definition of the term.

If this path is less than fruitful, I can always put up a flag hanging off my house with Ron Paul < whatever > as it seems that people can adorn their lots with american, state, seasonal, or alma mater flags about their houses.

However, I cannot find a single vendor that sells Ron Paul flags of any substantial size. Any help here would be appreciated.

Anyone else encounter these types of Home Owner issues, actions, etc..??

I will at this time refrain from giving out the Home Owner Associations email address for Paul'er comments unless a remedy of some sort cannot be achieved. :D

Thoughts? Comments?

[webber53]

put your sign in the window of your car and park it in the driveway or on the street.


If they try to pull crap for that check out how many stickers are on autos in the neighborhood.

I agree.

[govtpigII]

If they want to be dicks you can play the game.

1-Put a sign in EVERY window of your house

2-Put signs in EVERY vehicle and park them close to the street

3-If you have a trucks fill the back with a few big signs

4- spell RON PAUL in your grass with salt (if its still green)

5-Make a flag and buy the largest flagpole allowed in the assoc. handbook and fly that sucker(hell use a bedsheet and paint it

6-Make a cover for your mailbox that sail RON PAUL (probably a restriction for this)

Anyways, if you want to make a point there are many ways you can. I live in an association and I have chosen to follow the rules only because they are extremely nice and lenient. I would never do any of the above unless I was wronged in anyway by them. Become the voice of reason and be an official member of your association and get them to talk about allowing just 1 political sign in yards at times of elections, say 30 days prior.

[the_bee]

A good lawyer for the association will get a temporary restraining order (or similar) within three days after filing the lawsuit with a local court of competent jurisdiction. Depending on the state, there may not even be a hearing for getting the temporary restraining order. Failure for the homeowner to comply with the TRO will be considered contempt of court. Within a couple of weeks, there will be a hearing for preliminary injunction, which is essentially an opportunity for the homeowner to persuade the court as to why the signs should remain up until trial. If the association bylaws are clear and unambiguous, the court will issue an order for preliminary injunction and leave the temporary restraining order in place. In the meantime, the Association's attorney will have racked up $5,000 to $10,000 in attorney fees, which the homeowner will eventually be forced to pay via a judgment.


OK you win ............ I say sell the house

[raginggran]

You can deliver a flyer to everyones mailbox explaining that you have taken down your sign for Ron Paul because of a neighbours complaint.

Be sure to detail Ron Pauls platform in your flyer..WHY it is so important to communicate Dr. Pauls message.
Perhaps you could organize an informal meeting to get your message out.

I would particularly outline the media blackout.

good luck

[pinkmandy]

I really like the flag idea!!!!

[hummtide]

What about landscaping?

You could get hedges or something shaped into "RP08" or something.

Or flower bed too!

[mconder]

You made the mistake by moving into a covenant neighborhood. You gave up your constitutional rights by voluntary contract. I don't know why a person would do this.

[hummtide]

Yeah, I myself never understood stupid cookie-cutter homes where your neighbor can reah out their window and touch your home... and for what they charge..heck, give me a real LOT!

[Tidewise]

The Homeowners Association can and will sue you and make you pay their attorney fees. Trust me. I know. I am a trial attorney with experience in association lawsuits.

So am I; my firm represents over 300 HOAs and mostly what I do is HOA litigation.

To the OP:
PM if you are in California.

[OceanBlue]

i would definatly fly a ron paul flag, get a giant window decal for your car and put a sign on the inside window of your house.

[TaxProtester]

One thing to remember. Not everything that HOAs do is legal. What I would do is sue the board and let it be argued in court. You may very well lose though. Depending on the laws concerning HOAs in your city, county or state. Any competent attorney in your area can tell you if you have a case or not.

[whutaboutbob]

I would leave it up and dare one of them to come and take it down.

But, that's just me.

[scottincr]

Do you have mail boxes? If so, make a mail box out of RP signs.

[Crickett]

Besides other suggestions like car, window, etc. notice that your CURRENT board "has decided" to interpret the rules to mean no temporary political signs. I think you could maybe ask for a hearing in front of them, on this issue if you wanted to, but I definitely would attempt to become active there, and get on the board if you do not want to move. We must infiltrate from the bottom up, and just think how many people you may influence--especially if they let you do a
hearing, and you give a passionate speech about how RP will save America and the economy and that is why, as a patriot , you just really want to put the temporary sign there..

[Danny Molina]

Just slap a big sticker on the back of your car.

[Thomas Paine]

2 words: Private property.

2 more words: Civil disobedience.

Bad advice. A private property may be subject to more than one private owner and in this case the association has rights to the private property that restrict some of the homeowner's rights. Also, civil disobedience is an act against a government. An association is not a government. It is an private group of people associated for a common purpose. Don't forget that the First Amendment not only protects free speech but also protects freedom of association. In this case, the homeowner entered into a contract (no one put a gun to his head and forced him to do so) with the association that he would abide by their bylaws in exchange for living within the association. If the homeowner doesn't like the bylaws, then the homeowner can leave and sell his property.

[thomaspaine23]

It's the rule. My assn. has a same rule.... no signs, only "for sale" signs.

Deal.

For Sale,

office of the president
price - liberty
contact Ron Paul

[DGambler]

I'm currently in a legal battle with my HOA... basically, you have to prove that they aren't enforcing their covenants in a similar manner to all home owners.

You should really get on board with the Home Owners Bill of Rights (read more here: http://www.ahrc.com/new/index.php/src/resources/sub/billrights).

HOA's are the anti-christ... if I had known what I know now when I bought this house, I would have told them to shove those covenants up their @ss.

[hawks4ronpaul]

Snow or ice sculpture.

http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/

[Perium]

Just get a decal for your car like this!. I bought mine on ebay for $39.00 Shipped.

http://lh5.google.com/mark.goudie/R4LVOpUQt1I/AAAAAAAABWI/jX8zXFEJuvc/IMG_0316.jpg?imgmax=400

[UtahApocalypse]

tell them to fuck off, and do what you want too, think about it there is nothing they can do about it !!

Take his house they can.


You can deliver a flyer to everyones mailbox explaining that you have taken down your sign for Ron Paul because of a neighbours complaint.

Be sure to detail Ron Pauls platform in your flyer..WHY it is so important to communicate Dr. Pauls message.
Perhaps you could organize an informal meeting to get your message out.

I would particularly outline the media blackout.

good luck

Placing things in the US mail is against FEDERAL law

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

These associations are run like nazi camps.

[Mark]

Do they have rules about what you can put in your windows?

How about shining a light on a sign inside your house's windows somehow?

I've got a sign in my condo's window. The condo's under the rules of a "Homeowner's ASSociation"

At night I use a light with a reflector on it to shine the rays through the sign. It lights up "Ron Paul For President".

I tried to take pics the other night. I'll check em out and post one.

[Cindy]

The system sucks.. Where is the freedom of expression ? You can't even put up a sign who you support where you live because of a stupid association..

Communism


.

No one has to live in a deed restricted communit or is ever forced to buy in one.. Those who choose them, typically like the uncluttered look that you get with such rules. There are plenty of homes for sale in undeeded areas.


The sign is not worth the fine.

I keep a car out with RP signage on it and in the windows. My HOA reps are hawks with signage, yet they have said zippo about the car.

Besides, I canvased my area so everyone who drives by my street knows who he is now anyway, and I have RP signs on the roads just outside of my sub division.

I also put slim jims up at the Community Centers bulletine board.

There are plenty of ways to get the name and message out in your neighborhood without a sign in your yard.

[romeshomey]

It seems to me the worst that could happen is them taking you to court. They might win and you might have to take the sign down and pay their legal expenses, but by then, the primary might be over. You might have some pissed off neighbors too. I guess it depends on how much you think they'd push it and your perception of the risks.

They can actually take your home for breaking the deed agreement if you do not comply.

I almost bought some land last year, but after reading that I wouldn't be allowed to build whatever kind of house I wanted on the land, I declined. Reason being, if I built the kind of house I wanted, they could have taken the land back, and my home, just because it was in violation of the initial contract of the deed agreement.

This is why it sucks buying deeded land, you are obligated to adhering to whatever is set forth in the deed.

Most deeds renew every 15 years or so, with a vote by the homeowners in the area. If you can get enough homeowners to disagree with a rule, chances are, you can get the rule changed at that time.

[mcgraw_wv]

This is where libertarianism and myself separate.

I happen to believe that my Rights are inalienable. They can't be taken, bartered, stolen, signed away or compromised.

As far as I'm concerned these Homeowners Associations can kiss my butt.

Dude, when you buy a house, freedom of choice, in a HOA, you agree to that... NO one says you have a right to buy any property you want, and have everything around you conform to you...

Ron Pauls message is all about local government, a HOA is the most Local you can get, its people agreeing what they want in their neghborhod.

The key here is no one is forcing you to live in a HOA... there is nothing communistic about a HOA becuase you are not FORCED to live in one


you live their by choice, I don't like mine either, but the benifits of my house outweight the negative of living in a HOA.

[JohnnyWrath]

Not worth fighting it...

Take the sign, and a few more if possible, and place it/them on a highway where far far more people will see it. This way the sign will actually be seen more, and you won't be annoying the HOA.

[Mark]

Here are some pics of my lit sign setup. It's hard to see how bright it really is from the outside, but the words are completely lit up.


http://ronpaul.cc/images/RP_sign_lit.jpg

http://ronpaul.cc/images/RP_sign_lit_inside.jpg

http://ronpaul.cc/images/sign_reflector.jpg

[camped69]

"For Sale-United States
Vote Ron Paul 08"

[free.alive]

don't you own your property?

[free.alive]

keep the sign up,don't pay any fines. Claim your rights to your property. No one, even local government has the right to tell you what to do with your property.

[evadmurd]

That's what homeowners associations are for. Live & learn.

[Redcard]

keep the sign up,don't pay any fines. Claim your rights to your property. No one, even local government has the right to tell you what to do with your property.

BAD advice.

They can take your house, depending on the covenant agreements. REALLY bad advice.

[bulloncoins]

When you feel like it, sit in your yard in a lawn chair and hold the sign up as people pass......your own personal sign wave. What could they do about that?

[aksmith]

Apparently my homeowner's association has put forth a more or less direct challenge to my display of a Ron Paul for President campaign sign in my yard.

Yesterday in the mail I received the quarterly homeowners newsletter which contained a section that read as follows:

SIGNS

Please be reminded of Paragraph 6.8, a portion of which reads:
"6.8.1 No signs whatsoever (including but not limited to commercial and similar signs) shll, withouth the architectural commitee's prior written approval of plans and specifications therefore, be installed, altered or maintained on any lLot, or on any portion of a Structure visible from the exterior thereof."

The Board, and previous Boards, think that this prohibition includes political signs, so please do not place political signs in your yards."

First, my yard is the ONLY yard in my 96 lot subdivision that has a political sign of any type. So it is fairly obvious who this section is directed against.

Second, I cannot base any counter argument to this based on federal or state constitutional law regarding free speech or violation of public policy as every home owner association covenant agreement forcibly removes all remedy to the covenants via a constitutional path. (yes I'm a dummy, but go read your home owner covenants and 99% chance yours does the same thing. The next house I purchase will either not be in a subdivision or I will explicitly not sign or partially sign the next set) Please see (BRYAN v. MBC PARTNERS, L.P.)

Third, there have been numerous commercial signs placed on lots throughout the neighborhood in the past without homeowner policy enforcement. However enforcement seems to be highly subjective and at the whim of the Homeowners Association. Once again please see (BRYAN v. MBC PARTNERS, L.P.)

However, as pre-law student at one time, the statement of "including but no limited to" is a phrase/term of "limited expansion". Which can be defined that as the term “expansion” applies to things that are already generally described in the definition of whatever is being defined, even if a thing is not specifically named in the definition. For example, in the context of "dinner", dinner will be defined as including but not limited to apples, pears, peaches, and bananas. Therefore one can bring in additional items such as mangos, kiwis, grapes etc... as those items are similar in nature to the list, however, broccili, steak, potato's etc.. cannot due to their nature being manifestly different that the stated list of terms.

Ok given this, the Homeowners Association can only restrict signs of a commercial nature so I plan on writing a brief and polite rebuttal inquiring to the legal definition of the statement "commercial and similar signs" with regards to the afore mentioned definition of the term.

If this path is less than fruitful, I can always put up a flag hanging off my house with Ron Paul < whatever > as it seems that people can adorn their lots with american, state, seasonal, or alma mater flags about their houses.

However, I cannot find a single vendor that sells Ron Paul flags of any substantial size. Any help here would be appreciated.

Anyone else encounter these types of Home Owner issues, actions, etc..??

I will at this time refrain from giving out the Home Owner Associations email address for Paul'er comments unless a remedy of some sort cannot be achieved. :D

Thoughts? Comments?

Put up a "For Sale" sign without listing the property. And put Ron Paul for president on half the sign.

[FacelessJoe]

Put it on your roof dude, more people will see it that way anyway.

[hawks4ronpaul]

Play a legally loud (db) audio recording of "vote Ron Paul" or RP speeches for all legal hours of every day until they approve your silent yard sign.

http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com

[steph3n]

buy a tarp and put it on your roof as a monster sign saying Ron Paul for President 2008 :D

[TexFootballMom]

Besides other suggestions like car, window, etc. notice that your CURRENT board "has decided" to interpret the rules to mean no temporary political signs. I think you could maybe ask for a hearing in front of them, on this issue if you wanted to, but I definitely would attempt to become active there, and get on the board if you do not want to move. We must infiltrate from the bottom up, and just think how many people you may influence--especially if they let you do a
hearing, and you give a passionate speech about how RP will save America and the economy and that is why, as a patriot , you just really want to put the temporary sign there..


Very Good Advise. I was going to post that usually, the HOA allows political signs within the timeframe of the election.

Usually there are exceptions for political signs during election and "For Sale" signs when a home is for sale.

[ricket]

Just as an FYI, the HOA *CANNOT* take your house away from you.

I am currently living in a HOA-sponsored neighborhood and I have a sign out, and I am waiting to see if they say anything about the sign. I will respectfully ignore the letter, if any comes, as long as possible and wait till after the primary by procrastinating. If it goes further than that, they have to at least warn you of any kind of action and give you plenty of time to comply with the rules before they can proceed with any legal action. They can't just say "Oh, he has a sign in his yard" and then take you to court and expect you to pay all of the attorney's fees. You can easily argue that you werent given enough notice to comply with the order, etc etc to warrant not having to pay the fine.

If I recall correctly, post-litigation (if it gets that far), the most that they can do is place a lien on your property that only will show up if you try to sell your home. Once you comply with the terms of the lien by removing the sign then it can be lifted and you are able to sell your house (which by the time it goes through the whole process, would probably be after the primary and possibly after the general election)...so stop thinking they can take your house, because they cannot physically force you out of your home, they can only place a lien on it that will prevent you from selling it. But if you don't plan on selling anytime soon, then you are ok and can possibly buy enough time before the election to keep the sign out.

[acroso]

What's this asshats email address??

[bbachtung]

The state in which you live may have interfered with your right to contract with an HOA with regard to political signs. Arizona recently enacted a law that invalidates restrictions on political signs contained in HOA agreements.

What state do you live in?

Here's a list of states (and links to their laws) re: invalidating HOA rules prohibiting political signs during an election year:

Washington (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.38.034)

Texas (http://law.justia.com/texas/codes/pr/011.00.000202.00.html)

Arizona (http://www.azleg.gov/ars/33/01808.htm)

New Jersey (http://www.aclu-nj.org/legal/legaldocket/committeeforabettertwinriv.htm) (state court decision)

California (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=civ&group=01001-02000&file=1352-1353.8) (Civil Code section 1353.6)

[Laja]

If you're in Texas, the state law allowing political signs 90 days before an election (primaries included) trumps any HOA CCR's. Check with your state rep if you're not in Texas.

[LynnB]

It's the rule. My assn. has a same rule.... no signs, only "for sale" signs.

Deal.

How about one that says "Ron Paul, Not for Sale!" like a realty sign! :D

[Soccrmastr]

There has been a few threads on homeowners association problems on these forums, lurk for them a bit might have some answers.

[bonium]

I hate my association. I didn't know what the rules were when I signed, they conveniently left that part out.

You can get away with things for as long as about 3 months, believe me, I know although it could happen faster.

I have considered moving out and renting to some unsavory individuals. Just to make trouble!

They recently kicked a family out after a portion of the neighborhood put signs on the families lawn that were racially inapropriate. It was sad!

Our property values have only gone down and we have nothing to show for it but a worthless house because we can't do anything with it based on the rules and cant sell it due to the housing bubble.

If I could, I would sell it for 30k less than I bought if for and pay the difference over time.

Please, Please, Please don't buy in HOA's, you only support the cause of all we are against.

That being said, I have RP signs in all of my front facing windows and have never had a problem with other such signs in the past.

Good Luck!!!

[krott5333]

I would put a 2nd sign in my yard if I got that letter.

Piss on 'em!

[Time for Change]

Convert the Architectural Review Board!

Put up a for sale sign, then staple the RP sign on that!
The ron paul realty group...see ronpaul2008.com

Educate the people providing protest...they'll come around if they understand the basics of the deteriorating state of the Union!
Be NICE
Be SANE
NO Conspiracy stuff, just facts...

Economy (money devalued by printing it from thin air, and how that drives down property value in your exclusive neighborhood ;) ) [is that wrong ]
War
subsidized illegal immigration


You get the idea...bring them into the light!

[Zarxrax]

No signs? Do any of your neighbors have one of those stupid signs in front of their house advertising which security system their home uses? If so, if they every come and tell you to take down your sign, ask if they are going to make those other people take down their signs too.

[Cal Mabus]

Do a supreme court case law search on sign ordinances, try Ladue vs Gilleo. There are numerous cases to study. They are lenghty in most cases. I am fighting city of Springfield Il. over my signs. They are citing them as over sized. City allows 12 sq. ft, mine are 16 sq. ft. Had 2 but now I have 4. The ordinance is unconstitutional as it is written. The city can make changes and would be upheld in supreme court. But as it is written now I think I can beat the city ordinance. I will be going to my 3rd and final court appearance the day after Super Tuesday. I will probably be fined the max by now which is $750.00 plus atty & crt costs and then must appeal to an appelate court. I plan on posting the whole affair in the next few days (tomorrow LOL)

Through my studies I found most supreme court cases upheld association and subdivision covenants as they are not city codes that must apply to everyone. Asociations, etc., is treated as independant private agreements between property owners and not with the city and property owners or visa versa owners with the city.

So long as you accepted the terms for living in that subdivision you will have to comply.

But if you lived within a city limit and not a part of an association, then you could challange the constitutionallity of the ordinance as limiting freedom of speech and property owners rights. As I see with my case, this is going to start getting costly.

It's a tough decision to make, submitt or fight, I know. Best to you. Cal

[Redcard]

Do a supreme court case law search on sign ordinances,


This has nothing to do with city ordinances.. but a contract the OP entered willingly when he purchased his house.

When you sign something, folks ,READ IT.

[Cal Mabus]

This has nothing to do with city ordinances.. but a contract the OP entered willingly when he purchased his house.

When you sign something, folks ,READ IT.

I think that is what I said wasn't it? So what's your point?

I state case law to get the search started should anyone desire to do this. What you will find is that many situations and other types of similar violations are touched upon in upholding or striking down many arguments. There is a lot to know about these sign ordinances and association agreements and what rights are granted to whom for anyone needing to find these things out.

[Thomas Paine]

I think that is what I said wasn't it? So what's your point?

I state case law to get the search started should anyone desire to do this. What you will find is that many situations and other types of similar violations are touched upon in upholding or striking down many arguments. There is a lot to know about these sign ordinances and association agreements and what rights are granted to whom for anyone needing to find these things out.

I think the point that was trying to be made is that sign ordinances and association agreements/bylaws are exclusive of one another; they are like oil and water and caselaw for one cannot be used to support an argument for the other. Sign ordinances are local government laws while association bylaws is a contract. Therefore, the contract principles will apply to association bylaws instead of prior caselaw regarding local government sign ordinances.

[TheEchoPlaza]

Homeowners Associations are one of the most fascist organizations in the world. They put some third world dictators to shame honestly and they make me absolutely sick. It's your property, you own it, no ifs ands, or buts about it. I'm sure if you put some wannabe fascists for president signs like Hillary or Giulliani they wouldn't have said word, screw em'!

[Ogren]

Take down the sign and paint RON PAUL 08 on the side of your house.

[sharpsteve2003]

If for sale signs are OK then put up a "America for sale to Lobbyist. Highest bidder wins! Ron Paul takes no money from lobbyist". I'm sure they will give you the same reaction but you might be able to get the point across to your neighbors. Make it look like a for sale sign.

Keep up the good fight for Freedom!

[CaliforniaGold]

Do they have a rule that you can't decorate your car? LOL

Can you hang a Ron Paul Sheet in your window?

There are ways to get around these rotten rules~

Or hang Ron Paul signs from your tree?

[phree]

How can someone tell you that you can't put something on your own property?

They can if you entered into a legal contract that spells this out.

[expatriot]

If you pay property taxes then, as in most of the world,
you do not actually own the property - the state is merely renting it to you
until such time as you cease paying said taxes.
This is a point our fearless leader doesn't talk about very much, wish he would/could.

Throughout this planet regimes still impose this feudal system on us serfs.

99.99% of the populace is oblivious to this fact - they think they own real property.

Just trying to cheer you up, hope this helps....

[FreeTraveler]

Does the agreement say anything about how you can paint your house? "Ron Paul for President" would make a nifty garage door. :D

[jenninlouisiana]

Ebay has static clings for your car's back window... I'd look into those.

And I love the idea of the "For Sale" sign.. that's clever and witty!

[RTMC]

A guy in Florida has Ron Paul bumper stickers on his car and they keep towing him for breaking HOA rules!

[Thomas Paine]

A guy in Florida has Ron Paul bumper stickers on his car and they keep towing him for breaking HOA rules!

Ridiculous but probably true. Associations are typically run by idiots with Napolean complexes.

[wd4freedom]

Apparently my homeowner's association has put forth a more or less direct challenge to my display of a Ron Paul for President campaign sign in my yard.

Yesterday in the mail I received the quarterly homeowners newsletter which contained a section that read as follows:

SIGNS

Please be reminded of Paragraph 6.8, a portion of which reads:
"6.8.1 No signs whatsoever (including but not limited to commercial and similar signs) shll, withouth the architectural commitee's prior written approval of plans and specifications therefore, be installed, altered or maintained on any lLot, or on any portion of a Structure visible from the exterior thereof."

The Board, and previous Boards, think that this prohibition includes political signs, so please do not place political signs in your yards."

First, my yard is the ONLY yard in my 96 lot subdivision that has a political sign of any type. So it is fairly obvious who this section is directed against.

Second, I cannot base any counter argument to this based on federal or state constitutional law regarding free speech or violation of public policy as every home owner association covenant agreement forcibly removes all remedy to the covenants via a constitutional path. (yes I'm a dummy, but go read your home owner covenants and 99% chance yours does the same thing. The next house I purchase will either not be in a subdivision or I will explicitly not sign or partially sign the next set) Please see (BRYAN v. MBC PARTNERS, L.P.)

Third, there have been numerous commercial signs placed on lots throughout the neighborhood in the past without homeowner policy enforcement. However enforcement seems to be highly subjective and at the whim of the Homeowners Association. Once again please see (BRYAN v. MBC PARTNERS, L.P.)

However, as pre-law student at one time, the statement of "including but no limited to" is a phrase/term of "limited expansion". Which can be defined that as the term “expansion” applies to things that are already generally described in the definition of whatever is being defined, even if a thing is not specifically named in the definition. For example, in the context of "dinner", dinner will be defined as including but not limited to apples, pears, peaches, and bananas. Therefore one can bring in additional items such as mangos, kiwis, grapes etc... as those items are similar in nature to the list, however, broccili, steak, potato's etc.. cannot due to their nature being manifestly different that the stated list of terms.

Ok given this, the Homeowners Association can only restrict signs of a commercial nature so I plan on writing a brief and polite rebuttal inquiring to the legal definition of the statement "commercial and similar signs" with regards to the afore mentioned definition of the term.

If this path is less than fruitful, I can always put up a flag hanging off my house with Ron Paul < whatever > as it seems that people can adorn their lots with american, state, seasonal, or alma mater flags about their houses.

However, I cannot find a single vendor that sells Ron Paul flags of any substantial size. Any help here would be appreciated.

Anyone else encounter these types of Home Owner issues, actions, etc..??

I will at this time refrain from giving out the Home Owner Associations email address for Paul'er comments unless a remedy of some sort cannot be achieved. :D

Thoughts? Comments?


Not right- These associations cannot prohibit political expression. Call you local attorney if needed, but this is out of line.

[Proton]

My condo association has a rule like this. They claim the following purposes:

1. Prevent holes from being created in the grass.
2. Prevent possible damage to the sprinkler system.

Really, the only solution is to move. It's pretty sad how even in small groups, the fascists rise to the top. Those who seek power over others, often have little trouble finding it.

[expatriot]

Seems like your bound by that agreement. A loophole might be in the definition of a sign as you suggest with the flag idea. You can also paint a "Ron Paul sign" on your lawn/roof/driveway. Or you can "weed wack" Ron Paul into your yard, haha.


A (white) rock garden inset into the green grass front Lawn
"Vote Ron Paul 2008" or whatever?

[LinkClan]

Put the sign on your car!

[PaultheSaint]

never understood why people move in to subs with HOA:confused:

[expatriot]

One more observation and then I will go back to minding my own business: :D



First, my yard is the ONLY yard in my 96 lot subdivision that has a political sign of any type.
Sounds like a good reason to talk to each of the other 95 property owners
about their perceptions of Liberty, Freedom, and Ron Paul.

Use a smile - everyone likes an honest smile! :D:D:D

[Libertyiswinning]

I'm not sure I would advise you to resort to civil disobedience, but I would.

If it happenes to go as far as "attorneys" being involved, make sure to ask their "attorneys" if they're an American citizen. Question them about "titles of nobility and honor" and them pledging allegiance to the British crown via the bar exam. Ask them about the missing 13th amendment of our Constitution.

"If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive or retain any title of nobility or honor, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them."


I'm not sure but this probably applies to judges as well.



Also, any of these government officials who have been "Knighted" are no longer US citizens and can not hold positions of power and lose their rights to their ridiculous pensions.

[RPSignbomb]

It's 100% your fault for buying a house with a HOA and giving up your property rights.

People want freedom but are always so ready to give up their rights.

[Rhys]

I actually do a ton of work for a HOA management company.

It's not evil, it gets the roads plowed, the property insured, the lawn kept, the pool chemicals balanced, the taxes paid...

also some states (including this one) require them.

They're also owned by the community. You make the rules so if you don't like them, run for the board and work to get the bylaws changed. It's extremely common to not allow signs, even for real estate signs, in the lawns.

If you fight it, you will be fighting yourself. You pay the bills. You may be charged an additional assessment for legal fees. Not only will you have to pay the bill for your lawsuit, but all your neighbors... and you will lose.

[Libertyiswinning]

Over 60 million laws, statutes and regulations is just plain-ass wrong, and nobody should be held to them considering no person alive has the intellectual capability to retain them all.

Attorneys and judges are part of the major problem in this country.


Get a Constitutional lawyer.

[Danny Molina]

You signed into this it's your fault.

[Rhys]

Actually, I want to add...

Everyone who is bashing HOA's need to ask themselves who will maintain the 'common elements' of the property. Who will maintain the private roads, landscaping, parks or pools, legal action, day to day maintenance?

That is the purpose of a HOA. It is not a Nazi thing. They also maintain your property value.

[Libertyiswinning]

I'm not sure I would advise you to resort to civil disobedience, but I would.

If it happenes to go as far as "attorneys" being involved, make sure to ask their "attorneys" if they're an American citizen. Question them about "titles of nobility and honor" and them pledging allegiance to the British crown via the bar exam. Ask them about the missing 13th amendment of our Constitution.

"If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive or retain any title of nobility or honor, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them."


I'm not sure but this probably applies to judges as well.



Also, any of these government officials who have been "Knighted" are no longer US citizens and can not hold positions of power and lose their rights to their ridiculous pensions.

I know this may not exactly apply to your situation, but it is worth mentioning:

Most of Congress(those who happen to be attorneys) are holding positions of power which they are not legally allowed to hold since they pledge allegiance to the British Crown when they take the bar exam.

[ecliptic]

You can deliver a flyer to everyones mailbox explaining that you have taken down your sign for Ron Paul because of a neighbours complaint.

Be sure to detail Ron Pauls platform in your flyer..WHY it is so important to communicate Dr. Pauls message.
Perhaps you could organize an informal meeting to get your message out.

I would particularly outline the media blackout.

good luck

Best in thread!


HOA's gone wild:


Tempers rise over thermometer

July 30, 2006

****** COUNTY - A sheriff's deputy was called to a ***** neighborhood for a dispute. The man who called police told the deputy that he was in his backyard filling his bird feeder when a stranger approached him and introduced himself as the HOA vice-president.

The VP told the man he needed to remove the temperature gauge affixed to his tree because it was a common property tree. The man explained that he'd placed the gauge there more than a year ago, and would like to see a complaint in writing if he was violating an HOA bylaw. The VP then said he had the authority to do whatever he wanted and removed the man's temperature gauge from the tree himself.

When the deputy tracked down the VP to ask him about the squabble, he explained that he'd taken the gauge home because it was broken and he intended to replace it. He told the deputy he had the power to remove whatever did not meet the rules from homeowners' properties, and that the police could not "unsurp" his authority at the HOA vice president.

The deputy gave him a ticket for theft.

The VP asked the deputy if he would be at his court date, and the deputy said he would. The VP said, "You had better be, if you're not, I will come after you." Legally, of course, he said when the deputy asked if he was threatening him.

[ord33]

A funny (at least to me) story unrelated to Ron Paul but in reference to HOA's and my family's disgust with them.

My parents are country folk, but moved to Muirfield (in Ohio) where the Memorial Tournament is played each Late May/Early June. My dad had got letters from the HOA complaining over several things.

* One for having too "many bags of mulch laying in the same place for too long of a period" (it was actually manure, but they didnt know any better)
* Another because the basketball pole did not match the color of our house (the pole was black and the house was all brick with some grayish painted trim. My dad complied and painted the pole gray.
* The house was built in 1978 and never had a complaint for over 20 years about the windows, but after 20 years someone complained about the color of the window trim not complying with Association rules. My dad was getting pissed at this point, but he did comply by painting the window trim a different color. That had threatened to revoke privileges within the community such as use of bike paths, hiking trails, community pool, and levy quite substantial fines.

So what does he do? My parents' house is on the golf course and you can frequently see it on TV when they do their aerial blimp shots. Just prior to the week of the golf tournament which is nationally televised he makes a HUGE (about 10 x 30 foot) banner that said "Chew Mail Pouch Tobacco - Treat Yourself To The Best" and put it on the roof. We saw it many times on TV Thursday through Sunday and got a real kick out of it! It was just funny because the neighborhood for the most part is so snotty and arrogant to have my dad's message there looked so out of place. We loved it! And my parents have never received another complaint since!

[expatriot]

Bad advice. A private property may be subject to more than one private owner and in this case the association has rights to the private property that restrict some of the homeowner's rights. Also, civil disobedience is an act against a government. An association is not a government. It is an private group of people associated for a common purpose. Don't forget that the First Amendment not only protects free speech but also protects freedom of association. In this case, the homeowner entered into a contract (no one put a gun to his head and forced him to do so) with the association that he would abide by their bylaws in exchange for living within the association. If the homeowner doesn't like the bylaws, then the homeowner can leave and sell his property.

By this logic we ought to be able to reinstitute slavery, :D
just call it an association and sign over our rights for some kind of gratification.

Prostitution ought to be legal by this sort of mental rail-jumping. :D

This could be a lot of fun, come to think of it... :D:D

think of all the truly mind-blowing things the first amendment lends itself to
in the form of contractually abandoning all your freedoms and liberties! :D

Maybe I could get rich off this - giving people worthless pap in return for their
God-given American birthrights of freedom of speech! :D:D

Wait a minute - that's already being done, shucks!

[EvilEngineer]

Find the people running the home owners association. Then bribe, gag, intimidate... what ever it takes.

Torries and loyalists to the false crown of the Imperial America should get exactly the same treatment as what our forefathers of liberty did in their day.

[Telkandore]

I was gonna suggest the following but they've already been said:

1. Put a sign in all your windows/doors that face the street, since your living room's not your yard.

2. Fly a RP flag, though they might fight you on that too. I wish there was some kind of symbol that everyone would identify as representing Ron Paul but didn't have his name. Maybe Ben Franklin's don't tread on me flag? That would be pretty funny if they tried to stop you from flying an American flag.

[hawks4ronpaul]

Eventually we probably will learn that the Iraq and Afghan debacles were caused by the neocons starting HOAs there, and "the Coalition" is actually just a large HOA.

http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/

[Redcard]

I don't get why you're all seemingly against free trade and unregulated business.

Look, the poster made a decision to live somewhere that is managed by a HOA. If he doesn't like it, he can move. Ron Paul is not going to come out and help him because he was stupid enough to not read the covenant agreements.

He says he's the only one with a sign in the yard, and says "Well, that shows you who they were targetting."

No, it shows me that everyone else knows how to follow the rules they signed up for and you do not.

Look, I'm sorry that you think the rules shouldn't apply to you even though you agreed to them, but you need to take responsiblity for the fact that you agreed to them. If you think Ron Paul is going to help you in the future, then understand that you're WRONG.. that Paul is for MORE states rights and less federal government. He's for less business regulation.

My advice to you, if you don't wish to follow the rules you agreed to follow, is to sell your house and move to somewhere else. And for God's sake, read what you sign in the future.

[paul_v]

I think in Texas you can put up political signs within 30 days of an election. It's state law which trumps any HOA.

Anyways, I cant believe you guys are making such a big stink over putting up signs. Being uncooperative isnt winning votes for Ron Paul. You really need to see what's more important...being stubborn or following the rules.

[JenaS62]

This is the main reason I hate gated communities. Their stupid rules. Don't fence me in I say.

[hocaltar]

Order a Ron Paul flag.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

My HOA doesn't allow one either, and I have had one in my yard since August.

[bucfish]

Put a sign on Your roof especially if you are anywhere near an airport!!!

[ValidusCustodiae]

You can't sign away your rights.

Yes you can. The one unlimited right you have is the right to contract. It trumps all other rights. You can waive those rights in a contract all day long.

[speciallyblend]

hint dont bother with hoa's or condo associations, better off selling your house,then getting out of contracts,you really dont even own the home,your just a renter in a hoa with a mortgage payment.

[DGambler]

For those of you that don't live in HOA's are are thinking about buying into an HOA, read this (straight out of my covenants):


EACH OWNER, BY ACCEPTANCE OF A DEED CONVEYING A LOT SUBJECT TO THIS DECLARATION, WAIVES ANY RIGHT WHICH OWNER MAY HAVE UNDER THE CONSTITUTION OR LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA TO NOTICE OR TO A JUDICIAL HEARING PRIOR TO THE EXERCISE OF ANY RIGHT OR REMEDY PROVIDED BY THIS DECLARATION AND OWNER WAIVES OWNER’S RIGHTS, IF ANY, TO SET ASIDE OR INVALIDATE ANY SALE DULY CONSUMATED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PROVISIONS OF THIS DECLARATION ON THE GROUND (IF SUCH BE THE CASE) THAT THE SALE WAS CONSUMATED WITHOUT A PRIOR JUDICIAL HEARING. ALL WAIVERS BY OWNERS IN THIS PARAGRAPH HAVE BEEN MADE VOLUNTARILY, INTELLIGENTLY AND KNOWINGLY, AFTER OWNER HAS FIRST BEEN ALLOWED THE OPPORTUNITY TO CONSULT LEGAL COUNSEL WITH RESPECT TO OWNER’S POSSIBLE RIGHTS.

Of course, when I bought my house, I didn't get to read the Covenants or By-Laws as the lawyer was racing me through all the paperwork to be signed in 30 minutes. When I asked about it he stated it was "standard" HOA verbiage. I never even looked at them until I started having trouble with them, and by that time it was too late.

[Redcard]

For those of you that don't live in HOA's are are thinking about buying into an HOA, read this (straight out of my covenants):



Of course, when I bought my house, I didn't get to read the Covenants or By-Laws as the lawyer was racing me through all the paperwork to be signed in 30 minutes. When I asked about it he stated it was "standard" HOA verbiage. I never even looked at them until I started having trouble with them, and by that time it was too late.

That's why you should have a realtor or lawyer when you make a purchase. My realtor made them stop and explain EVERY WORD on EVERY PIECE OF PAPER , to my satisfaction, before I signed it. He even had some parts of the contract changed/altered on the scene for me.

A harsh lesson for you D, but.. hopefully you learned, no?

[DGambler]

That's why you should have a realtor or lawyer when you make a purchase. My realtor made them stop and explain EVERY WORD on EVERY PIECE OF PAPER , to my satisfaction, before I signed it. He even had some parts of the contract changed/altered on the scene for me.

A harsh lesson for you D, but.. hopefully you learned, no?

Yep, I learned. This was my 1st house... if I ever move to another HOA neighborhood, I'll either be modifying the contract or not moving there.

I'm planning on running for the HOA President position this year with some other "radical change agents" and our goal will be to modifying the covenants to a more home owner friendly one.