OK. That's it. Ron...start talking about the Fed being a private bank...

[Joe3113]

....and challenge the other candidates to address the issue.

Force them to answer questions regarding the illegality of the Fed.

Tell everybody to investigate how the Fed works!!!!!!

Make it clear in the debates that the Fed is a PRIVATE BANK and it has a monopoly on the money supply. Say the government has NO CONTROL.

TELL PEOPLE THE FED CHARGES INTEREST ON MONEY THAT THE GOVERNMENT COULD BE CREATING INTEREST FREE!!!

[ronpaulblogsdotcom]

This is about like talking about any other controversial topic. It labels us as crackpots. I actually had a liberal say that the FED is their friend because ocassionally they drop rates when needed.

People dont get that they do this when reality is starting to cut into THEIR profits.

They are about the only closed door function in the Govt, but I really would just like them to have some accountability.

[dkim68]

All in good time. If he mentions it too soon then Huckabee, Romney or Thompson will start stealing his material for their speeches.

[Joe3113]

It needs to be completely abolished and the function given back to the Treasury. Why can't the government just hire experts to run it from within the Treasury department with transparent congressional oversight. Also the congress should have the power to change the decisions.

I find it outrageous that the US government is charged interest on money it should be printing itself, interest-free. If I was a US citizen I would grab my congressman the the f*cking lapel, smash that bitch against the wall and say "DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE FED!!!!! NOW!!!!"

[JordanQ72]

Force them to answer questions regarding the illegality of the Fed.

Make it clear in the debates that the Fed is a PRIVATE BANK and it has a monopoly on the money supply. Say the government has NO CONTROL.

TELL PEOPLE THE FED CHARGES INTEREST ON MONEY THAT THE GOVERNMENT COULD BE CREATING INTEREST FREE!!!

So we should be lying to people now?


Also the congress should have the power to change the decisions.

Why? Congress doesn't have the authority to micromanage any of the various agencies. If they want, they can get rid of a head, and put someone in that will undo the decision.

[ButchHowdy]

Ron was very careful in how he answered (or didn't answer) a "Who owns the Fed" question at a NH Town Hall forum.

It is still taboo . . .

[WilliamC]

So we should be lying to people now?

Why? Congress doesn't have the authority to micromanage any of the various agencies. If they want, they can get rid of a head, and put someone in that will undo the decision.

No, just telling the truth.

Like these soundbites.

"The fundamental problem with the economy is that the United States does not have a legal, Constitutional money supply. To paraphrase Bill Clinton, 'It's the money, stupid'. "

"The money is becoming worth less, the dollars in your pocket are buying less food and gas, because the system that makes money is illegal under our Constitution."

"Real money doesn't go down in value every year, it holds it's value"

"Inflation, any inflation, hurts average Americans who work hard and try to save. It is devastating to our seniors and others living on fixed incomes. We are in the beginnings of an inflation explosion that will make us fondly remember the good old days when gas only cost $3.00 a gallon, and you didn't have to spend a weeks pay for a month's groceries."

"The government does not control our money. Neither Congress, the President, nor the Courts has any say over how much money is created and what it costs the government to make that money. Who does? A private bank that is accountable to no one. The Federal Reserve Bank does, and it is exerting tremendous control over our government by it's ability to determine the cost of money."

"The American dollar was once as good as gold. Now it isn't even as good as copper. That's why pennies cost more to make than they are worth."

"When they tell you prices are going up they are wrong. The value of the money you use is actually going down. Sound money holds it's value. The pieces of paper we call Federal Reserve Notes are illegal under our Constitution and that is why they are worth less every single year since they started being printed."


People remember soundbites, and Ron Paul should start using more of them.

[Joe3113]

Ron was very careful in how he answered (or didn't answer) a "Who owns the Fed" question at a NH Town Hall forum.

It is still taboo . . .

I hope he has planned when to go for the jugular. We want the revolution in 2008.

[Falseflagop]

He is walking the line because once he tells the shep the truth on who wons it all hell will break loose!

[Joe3113]

He is walking the line because once he tells the shep the truth on who wons it all hell will break loose!

I can't wait. He should wait to do it at just the right time.

[JordanQ72]

No, just telling the truth.

Like these soundbites.

Yet none of those quotes has truth in it. They range from lies, to logical fallacies, to misinterpretations.

[WilliamC]

Just remember what happened to the last President who directly challenged the authority of the Fed.

Ron Paul met the man the day before he lost this fight and his life.

I'm quite sure Ron Paul thinks about this every day.

[Joe3113]

Yet none of those quotes has truth in it. They range from lies, to logical fallacies, to misinterpretations.

Why don't you enlighten us as to how the Fed works then. Either that or return to the Obama forums.

[WilliamC]

Yet none of those quotes has truth in it. They range from lies, to logical fallacies, to misinterpretations.

Oh yee of little knowledge. Please show us the sources of your "truth"

For extensive referenced evidence of mine, please see "The Creature from Jekyll Island" by Edward Griffin.

While the book itself isn't on line, you can start here..

http://www.realityzone.com/creature.html

And of course the best place to look for evidence backing the fact that at least Ron Paul believes these "soundbites" to be true, start here...

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/topic.php?id=9

Maybe with this speech he gave to Congress...

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=677


ABOLISH THE FEDERAL RESERVE

Mr. Speaker, I rise to introduce legislation to restore financial stability to America's economy by abolishing the Federal Reserve. I also ask unanimous consent to insert the attached article by Lew Rockwell, president of the Ludwig Von Mises Institute, which explains the benefits of abolishing the Fed and restoring the gold standard, into the record.*

Since the creation of the Federal Reserve, middle and working-class Americans have been victimized by a boom-and-bust monetary policy. In addition, most Americans have suffered a steadily eroding purchasing power because of the Federal Reserve's inflationary policies. This represents a real, if hidden, tax imposed on the American people.

From the Great Depression, to the stagflation of the seventies, to the burst of the dotcom bubble last year, every economic downturn suffered by the country over the last 80 years can be traced to Federal Reserve policy. The Fed has followed a consistent policy of flooding the economy with easy money, leading to a misallocation of resources and an artificial "boom" followed by a recession or depression when the Fed-created bubble bursts.

With a stable currency, American exporters will no longer be held hostage to an erratic monetary policy. Stabilizing the currency will also give Americans new incentives to save as they will no longer have to fear inflation eroding their savings. Those members concerned about increasing America's exports or the low rate of savings should be enthusiastic supporters of this legislation.

Though the Federal Reserve policy harms the average American, it benefits those in a position to take advantage of the cycles in monetary policy. The main beneficiaries are those who receive access to artificially inflated money and/or credit before the inflationary effects of the policy impact the entire economy. Federal Reserve policies also benefit big spending politicians who use the inflated currency created by the Fed to hide the true costs of the welfare-warfare state. It is time for Congress to put the interests of the American people ahead of the special interests and their own appetite for big government.

Abolishing the Federal Reserve will allow Congress to reassert its constitutional authority over monetary policy. The United States Constitution grants to Congress the authority to coin money and regulate the value of the currency. The Constitution does not give Congress the authority to delegate control over monetary policy to a central bank. Furthermore, the Constitution certainly does not empower the federal government to erode the American standard of living via an inflationary monetary policy.

In fact, Congress' constitutional mandate regarding monetary policy should only permit currency backed by stable commodities such as silver and gold to be used as legal tender. Therefore, abolishing the Federal Reserve and returning to a constitutional system will enable America to return to the type of monetary system envisioned by our nation's founders: one where the value of money is consistent because it is tied to a commodity such as gold. Such a monetary system is the basis of a true free-market economy.

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I urge my colleagues to stand up for working Americans by putting an end to the manipulation of the money supply which erodes Americans' standard of living, enlarges big government, and enriches well-connected elites, by cosponsoring my legislation to abolish the Federal Reserve.


*

WHY GOLD?
By Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.

As with all matters of investment, everything is clear in hindsight. Had you bought gold mutual funds earlier this year, they might have appreciated more than 100 percent. Gold has risen $60 since March 2001 to the latest spot price of $326.

Why wasn't it obvious? The Fed has been inflating the dollar as never before, driving interest rates down to absurdly low levels, even as the federal government has been pushing a mercantile trade policy, and New York City, the hub of the world economy, continues to be threatened by terrorism. The government is failing to prevent more successful attacks by not backing down from foreign policy disasters and by not allowing planes to arm themselves. These are all conditions that make gold particularly attractive.

Or perhaps it is not so obvious why this is true. It's been three decades since the dollar's tie to gold was completely severed, to the hosannas of mainstream economists. There is no stash of gold held by the Fed or the Treasury that backs our currency system. The government owns gold but not as a monetary asset. It owns it the same way it owns national parks and fighter planes. It's just another asset the government keeps to itself.

The dollar, and all our money, is nothing more and nothing less than what it looks like: a cut piece of linen paper with fancy printing on it. You can exchange it for other currency at a fixed rate and for any good or service at a flexible rate. But there is no established exchange rate between the dollar and gold, either at home or internationally.

The supply of money is not limited by the amount of gold. Gold is just another good for which the dollar can be exchanged, and in that sense is legally no different from a gallon of milk, a tank of gas, or an hour of babysitting services.

Why, then, do people turn to gold in times like these? What is gold used for? Yes, there are industrial uses and there are consumer uses in jewelry and the like. But recessions and inflations don't cause people to want to wear more jewelry or stock up on industrial metal. The investor demand ultimately reflects consumer demand for gold. But that still leaves us with the question of why the consumer demand exists in the first place. Why gold and not sugar or wheat or something else?

There is no getting away from it: investor markets have memories of the days when gold was money. In fact, in the whole history of civilization, gold has served as the basic money of all people wherever it's been available. Other precious metals have been valued and coined, but gold always emerged on top in the great competition for what constitutes the most valuable commodity of all.

There is nothing intrinsic about gold that makes it money. It has certain properties that lend itself to monetary use, like portability, divisibility, scarcity, durability, and uniformity. But these are just descriptors of certain qualities of the metal, not explanations as to why it became money. Gold became money for only one reason: because that's what the markets chose.

Why isn't gold money now? Because governments destroyed the gold standard. Why? Because they regarded it as too inflexible. To be sure, monetary inflexibility is the friend of free markets. Without the ability to create money out of nothing, governments tend to run tight financial ships. Banks are more careful about the lending when they can't rely on a lender of last resort with access to a money-creation machine like the Fed.

A fixed money stock means that overall prices are generally more stable. The problems of inflation and business cycles disappear entirely. Under the gold standard, in fact, increased market productivity causes prices to generally decline over time as the purchasing power of money increases.

In 1967, Alan Greenspan once wrote an article called Gold and Economic Freedom. He wrote that:
"An almost hysterical antagonism toward the gold standard is one issue which unites statists of all persuasions. They seem to sense--perhaps more clearly and subtly than many consistent defenders of laissez-faire--that gold and economic freedom are inseparable, that the gold standard is an instrument of laissez-faire and that each implies and requires the other. . . . This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights."

He was right. Gold and freedom go together. Gold money is both the result of freedom and its leading protector. When money is as good as gold, the government cannot manipulate the supply for its own purposes. Just as the rule of law puts limits on the despotic use of police power, a gold standard puts extreme limits on the government's ability to spend, borrow, and otherwise create crazy unworkable programs. It is forced to raise its revenue through taxation, not inflation, and generally keep its house in order.

Without the gold standard, government is free to work with the Fed to inflate the currency without limit. Even in our own times, we've seen governments do that and thereby spread mass misery.

Now, all governments are stupid but not all are so stupid as to pull stunts like this. Most of the time, governments are pleased to inflate their currencies so long as they don't have to pay the price in the form of mass bankruptcies, falling exchange rates, and inflation.

In the real world, of course, there is a lag time between cause and effect. The Fed has been inflating the currency at very high levels for longer than a year. The consequences of this disastrous policy are showing up only recently in the form of a falling dollar and higher gold prices. And so what does the Fed do? It is pulling back now. For the first time in nearly ten years, some measures of money (M2 and MZM) are showing a falling money stock, which is likely to prompt a second dip in the continuing recession.

Greenspan now finds himself on the horns of a very serious dilemma. If he continues to pull back on money, the economy could tip into a serious recession. This is especially a danger given rising protectionism, which mirrors the events of the early 1930s. On the other hand, a continuation of the loose policy he has pursued for a year endangers the value of the dollar overseas.

How much easier matters were when we didn't have to rely on the wisdom of exalted monetary central planners like Greenspan. Under the gold standard, the supply of money regulated itself. The government kept within limits. Banks were more cautious. Savings were high because credit was tight and saving was rewarded. This approach to economics is the foundation of a sustainable prosperity.

We don't have that system now for the country or the world, but individuals are showing their preferences once again. By driving up the price of gold, prompting gold producers to become profitable again, the people are expressing their lack of confidence in their leaders. They have decided to protect themselves and not trust the state. That is the hidden message behind the new luster of gold.

Is a gold standard feasible again? Of course. The dollar could be redefined in terms of gold. Interest rates would reflect the real supply and demand for credit. We could shut down the Fed and we would never need to worry again what the chairman of the Fed wanted. There was a time when Greenspan was nostalgic for such a system. Investors of the world have come to embrace this view even as Greenspan has completely abandoned it.

What keeps the gold standard from becoming a reality again is the love of big government and war. If we ever fall in love with freedom again, the gold standard will once more become a hot issue in public debate.



I know I haven't read enough on this subject to consider myself an expert, but I don't get the impession you have either.

[rpfan2008]

Yet none of those quotes has truth in it. They range from lies, to logical fallacies, to misinterpretations.


Either you are a stupid or an implant.
tell us wat are you?

[InLoveWithRon]

Yet none of those quotes has truth in it. They range from lies, to logical fallacies, to misinterpretations.

Oh really?? You need to read up some.. There are plenty of factual books to read on this topic.. But you know what, let's look at some quotes from people who have been in the government- since you stated the poster's remarks were "fallacies".

I'd also recommend you youtube "freedom to fascism" the movie to learn how the fed works.. The interviewer even challenges the former commissioner of the IRS !! And the IRS Commish has no direct answers and all he does is quibble, is very defensive, and even makes threats to the interviewer !!..

But back to some quotes-


"For a long time I had felt Franklin D Roosevelt had developed many thoughts and ideas for this country, the United States. But he didn't.. Most of his thoughts were carefully manufactured for him in advance by the Council of Foreign Relations- One World Money Group.

The United Nations is but a long range, international banking apparatus clearly set up for financial and economic profit by a small group of powerful One-World revolutionaries hungry for profit and power..

The One-World government leaders and their ever close bankers have now acquired full control of the money and credit machinery of the U.S. via the creation of the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank."- Curtis Dall

Curtis Dall- son-in-law of Franklin D Roosevelt... quote from his book "FDR: My exploited Father in Law".



"The real menace of our republic is this invisible government, which like a giant octopus sprawls it's slimy length over the city, state and nation. Like the octopus in real life, it operates under cover of a self created screen.. At the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller Standard oil interests and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to as international bankers.

The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both political parties" -- John Hylan

- John Hylan- former mayor of New York



This evil institution has impoverished and ruined the people of these United States, has bankrupted itself, and has practically bankrupted our Government. It has done this through the defects of the law under which it operates, through the maladministration of that law by the Fed and through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it.

"Some people who think that the Federal Reserve Banks United States Government institutions. They are private monopolies which prey upon the people of these United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic speculators and swindlers; and rich and predatory money lender. In that dark crew of financial pirates there are those who would cut a man's throat to get a dollar out of his pocket; there are those who send money into states to buy votes to control our legislatures; there are those who maintain International propaganda for the purpose of deceiving us into granting of new concessions which will permit them to cover up their past misdeeds and set again in motion their gigantic train of crime"-- Congressman McFadden

http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/mcfadden.html

And there's alot more.. ALOT more quotes I can throw at you from people who were high in government who can back this up.. I'd need to start 20 threads to just get half of the quotes from these people high in government... Both recently in our generation, and people in an earlier time like Kennedy etc etc etc etc .. Executive order 11110 is just another of many consistent data.. Barry Goldwater's comments etc, President Woodrow Wilson's comments how the creators of the Fed Reserve control the US government and have corrupted it etc etc... and the list goes on and on and on and on regarding the evil nature of the Fed reserve and the International banking coterie..

I'd make you look rather silly with the amount of proof I can provide.. So stop it with your silly replies because they have no merit and have no leg to stand on .... I would suggest you study up on it and learn something, instead of trolling our board and making a total fool of yourself..



.

[1913_to_2008]

....and challenge the other candidates to address the issue.

Force them to answer questions regarding the illegality of the Fed.

Tell everybody to investigate how the Fed works!!!!!!

Make it clear in the debates that the Fed is a PRIVATE BANK and it has a monopoly on the money supply. Say the government has NO CONTROL.

TELL PEOPLE THE FED CHARGES INTEREST ON MONEY THAT THE GOVERNMENT COULD BE CREATING INTEREST FREE!!!

YES.YES.YES

[sratiug]

yes, and do it now

[gutteck]

The FED is a nasty monster BUT only 5% of the money created(inflated) is created by the FED.

The other 95% is left to the other little cute banks to slave us at the personal level with credit cards and loans.


watch "Money as Debt"

[NoMoreApathy]

You have to understand something..

Most people don't have any clue what the Fed even is, except that they "meet every so often to adjust rates".

That's all most people know. Telling them that it's illegal goes over most of these people's heads.

We really need to get down to their level, and play the same game the other candidates are playing.

We have to speak to these voters in STUPID, because that's all that gets through to most people.

The idea of printing money and inflation is becoming more known these days, so at least we can be THAT intelligent about it...but I think the things Ron says for the most part are too intelligent for most voters to comprehend.

Just say it to the voters in layman's terms..."We need to stop printing money and inflating the system, cut taxes ALONG with spending (cutting spending is making it into the mainstream again, thanks to the others stealing that idea) so you have more money in your POCKET, and the economy can make a REAL rebound."

I hate to say it, but Ron needs to dumb down his talking points, and get to the stupidity level of most voters.

[rpfan2008]

He did something almost like that in 1983 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=95368)