Grassroot Attack Ads on McCain : Yes/No?

[quantized]

Are you willing to chip-in for this grassroot attack ads on McCain?

[Fields]

Woohoo, I'm the only voter.

[RonPaulCult]

What kind - about the POW BS that will just piss people off and turn them further against us?

[MRoCkEd]

if it is mccain vs mccain... or better yet "100 years"

[jointhefightforfreedom]

Attack Romney to!!!

[RonRules]

Grassroots is perfect for attack ads. Ron Paul himself can remain clean as a whistle.

[Kingfisher]

I'll donate if the ads are absolutely factual (documented) and in good taste

[Dan Klaus]

I'll donate if the ads are absolutely factual (documented) and in good taste

Use McCains own words against him...100 years, bomb iran, immigration switcharoo, etc...I'm in if the ad is well done...

[Staupostek]

I prefer ads telling what the candidate is for. I have never liked attack ads. But, if they are ads that merely show candidates contradicting themselves, or taking positions that are different from your's, then I don't see that as an attack ad. And it seems like there is enough fodder out there for these kind of comparison ads for most of Dr. Paul opponents, especially since some of them have switched over to Dr. Paul's position on some issues of late.

[WilliamC]

No way I can chip-in but yes, whomever can afford it should be running attack adds on McCain, Romney, and Huckabee. Far better that the campaign did not do this, Ron Paul already has too high negatives as it is.

[constituent]

let mccain destroy himself.

[WilliamC]

I prefer ads telling what the candidate is for. I have never liked attack ads. But, if they are ads that merely show candidates contradicting themselves, or taking positions that are different from your's, then I don't see that as an attack ad. And it seems like there is enough fodder out there for these kind of comparison ads for most of Dr. Paul opponents.

Semantics. Most people would call what you describe an attack ad.

Any ad that negatively mentions an opponent is usually considered an attack.

[leglock]

As long as they don't promote Ron Paul.

Voters do not respond well to the person airing the negative ad, but remember the information in the negative ad.

[Phantom]

McCain’s flourishing flip-flop list (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9111.html)

http://img.youtube.com/vi/ioy90nF2anI/default.jpg - John McCain vs. John McCain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90nF2anI)

[FreeTraveler]

Don't talk about fight club!

[Staupostek]

Semantics. Most people would call what you describe an attack ad.
Anymore, anything that even mentions the opposition is an attach ad in their minds.


Any ad that negatively mentions an opponent is usually considered an attack.
I wouldn't necessarily mention them in a negative way. Point out inconsistencies in an inquisitive way (Just what did he mean when he said...?) and then ask people to ask the candidate what they meant by that. If it is explainable, they will do so. If it isn't, they will look all the worse for trying to explain it. Remember "I voted for it before I voted against it"?

Maybe I am just too idealistic thinking these things can be won with a good exchange of ideas and using reason to get people to see your side as the right one.

[rrcamp]

What, currently, are the main grassroots vehicles for TV ads? I know there was some New Hampshire groups... plus Jeremiah Black (sp?). Can we get one of these groups to head it? I always see ideas for this, but nobody takes the helm and the idea dies..

[Danny Molina]

McCain’s flourishing flip-flop list (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9111.html)

http://img.youtube.com/vi/ioy90nF2anI/default.jpg - John McCain vs. John McCain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90nF2anI)

I like the McCain vs. McCain video. Though there it have to be much shorter.

[rfbz]

there will be no shortage of McCain attacks for sure without any help from us. #1 focus should be promoting RP and the message.

[liberteebell]

I prefer ads telling what the candidate is for. I have never liked attack ads. But, if they are ads that merely show candidates contradicting themselves, or taking positions that are different from your's, then I don't see that as an attack ad. And it seems like there is enough fodder out there for these kind of comparison ads for most of Dr. Paul opponents, especially since some of them have switched over to Dr. Paul's position on some issues of late.


Agree (but I'm broke, sorry!)

[LandonCook]

Romney

[Danny Molina]

there will be no shortage of McCain attacks for sure without any help from us. #1 focus should be promoting RP and the message.

I have never seen an McCain attack ads on TV not a one.

[fuzzybekool]

McCain needs to be attacked big time like Bush did to him in South Carolina during the 2000 primary.

Ron Paul's own internal polling shows in New Hampshire, voters thought McCain was for getting troops out of IRAQ.

I mean , COME ON ! How stupid is our electorate ???

[scandinaviany3]

McCain’s flourishing flip-flop list (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9111.html)

http://img.youtube.com/vi/ioy90nF2anI/default.jpg - John McCain vs. John McCain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90nF2anI)


I would drop the section on the flag an ad his "new words" on how things were going in iraq + tape of CNN guy saying he was not making any sense. John was in protective gear and escorted in baghdad. How the general laughed at his comments when the reporter ask them about it. Also need to show the peace is false and set up on bribing the sunnis during the elections right now.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17899543

Also throw in the swaring and name calling he does and going bizurk, bomb..bomb..bomb iran and 100 years in iraw comment.

[Suzu]

I'd also like to see ads comparing Romney pouring tens of millions of his own money into his own campaign, vs. the many small donors to Ron Paul. Which one do THE PEOPLE choose?

And of course attack Rudy on his stupidity in an ad with quotes from OBL, Scheuer, and authors of the other books on "Rudy's Reading List".

I hope the other warmongers will do a good enough job tearing into Suckabee.

[scandinaviany3]

For Romney,

CNN person last night said his REAL records on his company and destroying jobs as of course capital investment groups always do, seeking profit only, is his achilies heel on top of his flip flopping.

Very easy kill

[fuzzybekool]

We need something like MOVEON.ORG to make the good stuff that will really change people's minds.

[billyjoeallen]

the "smart money" now is between two candidates: Romney and McCain.

let them take each other out! McCain has a huge head of steam and big media support coming out of S. Carolina, but he still has big negatives with the base and a dwindling war chest. ol' Hundred years McAmnesty couldn't possibly win the general election if he takes the GOP nomination.

Rush, Coulter, and the rest of the neocon thought police are now backing Romney, but there's no way the evangelicals will support a flip-flopping Mormon.

Paul is the last man standing, provided we give him a big enough money bomb. This is it boys, and girls. Tomorrow is make or break.

[Perium]

All for it, with $ backing my mouth.

[scandinaviany3]

dont trust that mccain cant win.

if voter fraud is happening. You just have to have a large enough number of voters to pull off the fraud and victories.

Its important to not let them get votes whatsoever and push Ron to the top.

[wowabunga]

NO. NO. NO. NO.

A survey was done concerning which candidates left the public feeling better after exposure.... Obama and Ron Paul emited a good vibe.

You can be sure that the other candidates will tear at each other. They have been doing it for ages and you can expect it to continue. WE ARE CHARGED WITH KEEPING THE SMEARS THEY THROW AT US AT BAY. The smears will come and we will need all we can muster just to keep the good name of our candidate above board.

Standing in 10 degree weather last night.... at a big basketball game here in Missouri.... 10 Ron Paul patriots stood in the bitter cold and handed out literature to those heading into the arena. The patriots of Valley Forge should be proud. Damn it was cold.

BECOME THE MEDIA...!

[kyleAF]

NO! to any mention of John McCain as a POW in 'nam . There are already people from Vietnam era coming forward with a "swift boat" style tactic. Leave that to them (they aren't associated with us).

If it's just an pointing out his voting history, then maybe it can be good.

Market it as a "good ad for McCain", where you can then quote him as saying "we'll stay in Iraq for 100 more years if necessary", but in a positive light. Bring up other issues, like immigration reform. The McCain-Feingold act may even be workable.

He's only getting the independent vote because people don't know what he stands for. This could show them (and thus deter them), without appearing as a smear ad against him in any way.

[Myerz]

Every army needs an Infantry........The infantry should handle the attack ads....... We need a money-bomb.......we need big money for an effective campaign of attack ads.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

I'm in. McCain is a threat to this nation.

Use the 100 year thing, along with Dr Paul's response, "Five generations." Also use his statement saying, "It's not how many years we are there, it's how many causalities," and explain that this is a recipe for endless war with Muslims, since they don't want us on their land.

[N13]

Let the Mormons and the Evangelicals handle McCain.

McCain can focus on the undead Ghoul.

Meanwhile we should deliver a positive RP message to the voters.

[scandinaviany3]

the "smart money" now is between two candidates: Romney and McCain.

let them take each other out! McCain has a huge head of steam and big media support coming out of S. Carolina, but he still has big negatives with the base and a dwindling war chest. ol' Hundred years McAmnesty couldn't possibly win the general election if he takes the GOP nomination.

Rush, Coulter, and the rest of the neocon thought police are now backing Romney, but there's no way the evangelicals will support a flip-flopping Mormon.

Paul is the last man standing, provided we give him a big enough money bomb. This is it boys, and girls. Tomorrow is make or break.

If Clinton somehow comes back...they will take whatever

[scandinaviany3]

NO. NO. NO. NO.

A survey was done concerning which candidates left the public feeling better after exposure.... Obama and Ron Paul emited a good vibe.

You can be sure that the other candidates will tear at each other. They have been doing it for ages and you can expect it to continue. WE ARE CHARGED WITH KEEPING THE SMEARS THEY THROW AT US AT BAY. The smears will come and we will need all we can muster just to keep the good name of our candidate above board.

Standing in 10 degree weather last night.... at a big basketball game here in Missouri.... 10 Ron Paul patriots stood in the bitter cold and handed out literature to those heading into the arena. The patriots of Valley Forge should be proud. Damn it was cold.

BECOME THE MEDIA...!

This sounds like a grassroots, having nothing to do with the campaign

Look at what the racism comments did to us...or the soft on security lies.

[Lord Xar]

*if* you do McCain, try to use the Keating 5 issue, the "bomb bomb iran..song" and perhaps get in contact with Judicialwatch and see if they can issue a word or two on their opinion on McCains' lifelong corruption involvement.

THERE YOU HAVE IT.

Simple. Three points.

[scandinaviany3]

Let the Mormons and the Evangelicals handle McCain.

McCain can focus on the undead Ghoul.

Meanwhile we should deliver a positive RP message to the voters.

LOL..you do realize there are mormons and evangelicals in the revolution movement and quite a lot of them.

[tamor]

Let's not name them "attack" ads -- too violent sounding -- let's see, how about "McCain Minutes" "Did You Know- Notices" The truth has got to get out --

[nbhadja]

Only if it compares McCain's views to Ron Paul's views.
With the amount of idiotic voters out there, if they hear bad about McCain they will just vote for Huckabee. Attack ads mean nothing unless they know who Ron Paul is.

[scandinaviany3]

*if* you do McCain, try to use the Keating 5 issue, the "bomb bomb iran..song" and perhaps get in contact with Judicialwatch and see if they can issue a word or two on their opinion on McCains' lifelong corruption involvement.

THERE YOU HAVE IT.

Simple. Three points.


Agreed needs to be focused and reputable.

I think its a good idea since huckabee is taking a lot of heat with the joint mccain/thompson war.

If we can attack Mccain then Paul looks good in the eyes of many huckabee supporters...ultimately we need to convert many of them.

Lastly it gives a reason for huckabee then to turn on thompson instead of a two front war and take thompson out.

We need thompson out. Then its easy to take down romney with the truth about his career, jobs, etc.

He holds the key to everything falling down and out of ron's way.

No duncan, no thompson and a large electorate group will hold their nose on Romney

Romney then will fall with a single electability focus on flip floping and what he and his company does gets rid of jobs and is only focused on profits...his record shows that according to CNN the other night.

So goodbye competition. Its all about electability...build ron up...tear the others down...

In a huckabee vs Ron match where we show the whole truth on illegal immigration and rons record on faith, economics its a dog fight we want.

[scandinaviany3]

Only if it compares McCain's views to Ron Paul's views.
With the amount of idiotic voters out there, if they hear bad about McCain they will just vote for Huckabee. Attack ads mean nothing unless they know who Ron Paul is.


Just put up some comparison sheets on their illegal immigration voting for instance by two groups in the past.

showing he is getting a D, Duncan hunter and tancredo A's and Paul the only one passing with a B+.

Same thing with other things.

Show the pack as a group. Let the consumers choose.

[break4me]

We need to spend our efforts on Ron Paul's message. To beat down McLame's voters, may make them run to Romney/Huckabee. A pro-Paul message may help us win believers from any camp.

[scandinaviany3]

Let's not name them "attack" ads -- too violent sounding -- let's see, how about "McCain Minutes" "Did You Know- Notices" The truth has got to get out --

that is fine..spin is for the spokes people...need the message to get out...

People watch the newspapers and TV and then vote based on what they see and hear.

[Lord Xar]

the thing is..

WHO is gonna do these ads?

frankdogg, Black etc..... I fear anything less than VERY professional will flop.

*************

Who? We need to get on this asap.

[scandinaviany3]

We need to spend our efforts on Ron Paul's message. To beat down McLame's voters, may make them run to Romney/Huckabee. A pro-Paul message may help us win believers from any camp.

voters are believing from exit polls that McCain is getting the troops out.

The illegal immigration group believes he actually isnt for amnesty...

If you get away with lies the electorate will vote hands down for the best liar.

So unless someone brings up the truth and keeps doing it the others messages are only equal at best.

The man with the most fame(mccain) then should win.

No choice here...unless we want to have mccain/romney or something of the like

[scandinaviany3]

the thing is..

WHO is gonna do these ads?

frankdogg, Black etc..... I fear anything less than VERY professional will flop.

*************

Who? We need to get on this asap.

They could all work together on parts of this and bring in partners to go after multiple candidates at once.

But the money is the problem and the time involved to get this ad set out.

would cost a lot to get the message out...1,000,000 dollars of air time to just get started. Would want like 4-5 million to saturate the states.

[OrbitalGun]

We need to get the message out to the old people that McWarin wants to send their grandchildren to fight his 100 year war.

[Lord Xar]

scand.. you are right..

We need to point out that McCain actually authored that SHAMNASTY and point out 2 horrible loopholes in THAT bill...

then move onto to the fact he will NOT end the war and is infact a washington insider himself.

[scandinaviany3]

As always money is the issue. We know the campaign is very bad at ads. Their best stuff looks like osmosis for the message. They have hired "friends" that are talented finally on the production quality.

But the messages are very easily forgettable, other than the illegal immigration ad, which could have been done argueably better. It should have shown grading of the other candidates pre the election..etc.\

I personally think that focus needs redone on a corruption vs truth ad. Showing the basic like everyone had dismal records C-F grades on illegal immigration prior to the election except ron who had a B+. The reason for that was that he did not trust CFR guys with the real id. If he voted for these bills he would have had an A.

[wfd40]

voters are believing from exit polls that McCain is getting the troops out.

The illegal immigration group believes he actually isnt for amnesty...

If you get away with lies the electorate will vote hands down for the best liar.

So unless someone brings up the truth and keeps doing it the others messages are only equal at best.

The man with the most fame(mccain) then should win.

No choice here...unless we want to have mccain/romney or something of the like

Why not simply use this data!?

First frame.... "exit polls showing a majority of those against the war voted for the very pro-war John McCain" (show pie charts)

next frame... "Multiple clips of McCain HIMSELF saying "100 more years"... just like korea... endless occupation".

last frame.. show montage of troops being antiwar or simply show the horrors of war... "if you are for peace.. and think that our bravest should be protecting our borders and not Iraqs... then know this: McCain is the only candidate running who publicly promises to keep our soldiers in Iraq for 100 more years"

[scandinaviany3]

Why not simply use this data!?

First frame.... "exit polls showing a majority of those against the war voted for the very pro-war John McCain" (show pie charts)

next frame... "Multiple clips of McCain HIMSELF saying "100 more years"... just like korea... endless occupation".

last frame.. show montage of troops being antiwar or simply show the horrors of war... "if you are for peace.. and think that our bravest should be protecting our borders and not Iraqs... then know this: McCain is the only candidate running who publicly promises to keep our soldiers in Iraq for 100 more years"

I think any one on this forum could generate good scripts we all could work with.

IT comes down to money and time.

Our forum is up and ready at www.operationbroadcastfreedom.com to house ideas for ads.

We welcome everyone to contribute to these.

[Soccrmastr]

I think there should be attack ads, but the campaign should do it.

[scandinaviany3]

would be great if they did but not sure if they know how to do it, would want to, or would do a good job at it.

Ultimately these cant be done poorly.

Also they surely want someone else to do it since there plausible deniability built in.

Works well to shield the candidate while still hurting the opponent.

[Paulbot_9876]

As long as they don't promote Ron Paul.

Voters do not respond well to the person airing the negative ad, but remember the information in the negative ad.

but it does even if they say they dont like the neg ads....it sticks in your mind...yes,neg ads do work when they are true.....

[quantized]

I think any one on this forum could generate good scripts we all could work with.

IT comes down to money and time.

Our forum is up and ready at www.operationbroadcastfreedom.com to house ideas for ads.

We welcome everyone to contribute to these.

are you from www.operationbroadcastfreedom.com

[scandinaviany3]

are you from www.operationbroadcastfreedom.com

yes

[quantized]

yes

great. so how does this thing works? Why don't you start a thread educating us on what we can do to get this McCain ad out?

[christogarcia]

I think he's a sitting duck if we show America how full of BS he is. I'm wondering how can I download his soundbites or video clips from youtube so I can re-edit them? Anyone know how?

[scandinaviany3]

well the problem is money.

So far we dont generate as a grass roots enough money, with the exception of the blimp effort to make a dent.

We need to generate at least 250k(similar to what Thompson did to show his ads in Iowa) to pound stuff on all the airways.

We can impact smaller regions like we have done to date with partners in iowa, MI, SC.

But we cant take over the election without that level of money.

We have the infrastructure and people that can do anything.

Lord Xar, Frankdog, AdamT, jblack, and at least a half dozen more very connected and talented people in music, graphic design, tv ads, animation, etc.

It all comes down to FEC compliant process and lots of money.

I would suggest a million dollar plan is needed to just get started on a serious ad campaign against mccain or whoever.

[quantized]

well the problem is money.

So far we dont generate as a grass roots enough money, with the exception of the blimp effort to make a dent.

We need to generate at least 250k(similar to what Thompson did to show his ads in Iowa) to pound stuff on all the airways.

We can impact smaller regions like we have done to date with partners in iowa, MI, SC.

But we cant take over the election without that level of money.

We have the infrastructure and people that can do anything.

Lord Xar, Frankdog, AdamT, jblack, and at least a half dozen more very connected and talented people in music, graphic design, tv ads, animation, etc.

It all comes down to FEC compliant process and lots of money.

I would suggest a million dollar plan is needed to just get started on a serious ad campaign against mccain or whoever.

hmm... a million dollar!!! wow.... some serious money here...

[scandinaviany3]

yah i know.

Advertising to win an election is a very, very expensive process.

Also for TV you have to buy in at least 10-14 days before the caucus or primary.

Else the inventory drops and prices sky rocket.

Usually the grass roots operates in a just in time model.

Which actually greatly hurts them.

They should instead pick the best groups to put money into and do so in general funds way ahead of time.

That way we all get the best return on our money.

But no matter what we now are looking at strategic impact.

you could just focus on one region lets say california for half that and do an ok job.

But the buy and ad would have to be already ready to go very soon and image quality would have to be beta quality or better, not you tube quality

[Mark]

What kind - about the POW BS that will just piss people off and turn them further against us?


That's bull malarkey - the facts about McCain as a POW and his blocking of full disclosure while in the Senate will bring his act DOWN!