Obnoxious and statist pledge of allegiance

[davidkachel]

I wonder why this topic has never come up here? (Maybe it has and I missed it.)

The "Pledge of Allegiance" is a part of everyday life, yet the founding fathers would have been appalled at anyone who even suggested such a vile thing.

I personally find it (the P of A) a spit in the face of everything this country is supposed to stand for. It is no more compatible with individual freedom and choice than a pair of handcuffs. To pledge allegiance to the state is the exact opposite of what this country is about.

The "Pledge of Allegiance" is nothing more than a verbal loyalty oath and should be abolished immediately along with the Fed, the income tax and other vile, disgusting institutions.

[BarryDonegan]

yeah, if we didn't have public schools we wouldn't have to worry about it!

[ConstitutionGal]

http://rexcurry.net/USA-pledge-of-allegiance-rexcurrydotnet.jpg

[Goldwater Conservative]

I would be okay with it if you had to sing it like a folk song while waving two sparklers around.

[davidkachel]

ConstitutionGal,

Please provide more info if you have it. I was unaware of the Nazi salute angle, though I believe the pledge of allegiance came long before the Nazis:

http://www.crf-usa.org/Foundation_docs/Foundation_lesson_pledge

"In 1892, Francis Bellamy wrote and published the first Pledge of Allegiance in his magazine, Youth’s Companion."

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

I don't think it's a Nazi salute, per say, but it is definitely an authoritarian one. The Nazis, after all, got it from the Roman Empire. Many countries used some variation of the upraised arm Roman-style salute before WWII to encourage allegiance of their citizens. In any case, the Pledge's origins are not republican (small r), and I agree that it shouldn't have nearly the coercive influence it does.

[davidkachel]

I would be okay with it if you had to sing it like a folk song while waving two sparklers around.

I know you're joking, but nonetheless, in a world where we are (should be now; but sadly only used to be) the only truly free country, the idea of any citizen pledging allegiance to the government should be something Americans are incapable of understanding. Why would anyone pledge allegiance to the grizzly they keep in chains?

It is really quite simple: if you (the collective you) are willing to recite the P of A, then by definition you do not understand liberty, because to recite the P of A is to denounce your own liberty.

[acptulsa]

Oh, find me an issue I can convert Republican primary voters with! This is no time to drive them away.

[Jeremy]

I have to say though... ever since I started supporting Paul, the pledge has meant a lot more to me when I say it.

[BIRDMAN4PAUL]

Ok comrade, calm down on the rhetoric, we need to stay on message and not say things that will sound insane to the average GOP voter if we are going to have any attempt at converting them

regarding the pledge, its a strech from some words no one pays attention to when reciting, and having some sort of Nazi takeover

[Goldwater Conservative]

I know you're joking, but nonetheless, in a world where we are (should be now; but sadly only used to be) the only truly free country, the idea of any citizen pledging allegiance to the government should be something Americans are incapable of understanding. Why would anyone pledge allegiance to the grizzly they keep in chains?

It is really quite simple: if you (the collective you) are willing to recite the P of A, then by definition you do not understand liberty, because to recite the P of A is to denounce your own liberty.

I agree, and while I'm opposed to making it mandatory in schools, I do think if the Congress somehow made the "official version" ridiculous enough nobody would do it. :p

[Deborah K]

Well, considering it was written by a socialist......

http://www.nacleaders.org/PledgeofAleg.htm

[ConstitutionGal]

ConstitutionGal,

Please provide more info if you have it. I was unaware of the Nazi salute angle, though I believe the pledge of allegiance came long before the Nazis:

http://www.crf-usa.org/Foundation_docs/Foundation_lesson_pledge

"In 1892, Francis Bellamy wrote and published the first Pledge of Allegiance in his magazine, Youth’s Companion."

It didn't start off as being a "Nazi" salute but it was quickly dropped once that stance became associated with the Nazi Party. See more here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_allegiance

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

The "Under God" part was also only added by Congress in the '50s over Cold War hysteria. They sought to add it to distinguish the US as a "Christian" country from the atheist Soviet Union.

[sharpsteve2003]

Instead of the Pledge or even prayers in school they should have kids recite the Declaration of Independence or the Pre Amble to the Constitution, maybe the Bill of Rights. Those things should be drilled into the minds of Americas youth. Maybe they could learn a new document each semester.

[davidkachel]

I have to say though... ever since I started supporting Paul, the pledge has meant a lot more to me when I say it.

When it means even more NOT to say it, then you will "get it".

[davidkachel]

Ok comrade, calm down on the rhetoric, we need to stay on message and not say things that will sound insane to the average GOP voter...

Oh, you mean things like "abolish the IRS, abolish the federal reserve, back our money with gold and silver", insane things like that?

The problem with having been slaves to our own government for over a century is that even most of us who support RP still don't understand liberty.

In a free country, the idea of a P of A is the insane idea.

[davidkachel]

I agree, and while I'm opposed to making it mandatory in schools, I do think if the Congress somehow made the "official version" ridiculous enough nobody would do it. :p

This is my point: it is ridiculous enough already. But we are so brainwashed that most of us do not see it.

[crink]

I agree with the OP the founding fathers would be ashamed

[Goldwater Conservative]

This is my point: it is ridiculous enough already. But we are so brainwashed that most of us do not see it.

Too true. Maybe as a compromise we should suggest that teachers instead start the school day with a reading from the Declaration, Constitution, or a similar document? :)

[davidkachel]

Too true. Maybe as a compromise we should suggest that teachers instead start the school day with a reading from the Declaration, Constitution, or a similar document? :)

It is far too easy to turn these documents to the will of the statists; else how do you explain the acceptance of the 2nd Amendment as a right of the government?

Children are bored by and do not quite grasp the Declaration and Constitution; at least not out of context.

What should be taught is the subject of freedom with the Declaration, the Constitution and the whole of human history as supporting documents. The human race needs to be educated in the ideas of freedom.

[BIRDMAN4PAUL]

Oh, you mean things like "abolish the IRS, abolish the federal reserve, back our money with gold and silver", insane things like that?

The problem with having been slaves to our own government for over a century is that even most of us who support RP still don't understand liberty.

In a free country, the idea of a P of A is the insane idea.

no I mean when we use rhetoric like that, we turn of the GOP base, killing the grassroot effort

[MrCobaltBlue]

I never said the Pledge in High School, I almost got detention for it one day. I calmly informed the teacher that it was my right as an American to refuse to say it and he said there wasn't much about me that was American.


I also informed him that I was protected under the 1st amendment to not say it, which shut him up.

[davidkachel]

no I mean when we use rhetoric like that, we turn of the GOP base, killing the grassroot effort

Have no idea what you are talking about. You mean the real platform of the Republican party, the ideas of liberty, turn off the Republican base?

I think you are absolutely right. And isn't it sad indeed!

[ConstitutionGal]

I never said the Pledge in High School, I almost got detention for it one day. I calmly informed the teacher that it was my right as an American to refuse to say it and he said there wasn't much about me that was American.


I also informed him that I was protected under the 1st amendment to not say it, which shut him up.


You'll find a quite a few folks here in the South that will say the Pledge but omit the part about "one nation indivisible" :D

[davidkachel]

I never said the Pledge in High School, I almost got detention for it one day. I calmly informed the teacher that it was my right as an American to refuse to say it and he said there wasn't much about me that was American.


I also informed him that I was protected under the 1st amendment to not say it, which shut him up.

While it is true your teacher may have been an American, he did not have the slightest idea what that meant.
Isn't it funny that those few among us, like for example Ron Paul, who understand what this country is all about are the ones who are always laughed at and ridiculed.

[Goldwater Conservative]

You'll find a quite a few folks here in the South that will say the Pledge but omit the part about "one nation indivisible" :D

So if you're an atheist Southerner, you might say the following?

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, .............................. with liberty and justice for all."

[freelance]

http://rexcurry.net/USA-pledge-of-allegiance-rexcurrydotnet.jpg

Damn, are you KIDDING me?

Does anyone remember during the hearings on the DOJ when one of those cute little 20-something blondes slipped up and and said that when she took her oath to the President....? She meant to say, took her oath to uphold the Constitution, but that's not what she said. It wasn't Monica Goodling. It was Karl Rove's assistant, I believe.

Remember that?

[ConstitutionGal]

Damn, are you KIDDING me?

Does anyone remember during the hearings on the DOJ when one of those cute little 20-something blondes slipped up and and said that when she took her oath to the President....? She meant to say, took her oath to uphold the Constitution, but that's not what she said. It wasn't Monica Goodling. It was Karl Rove's assistant, I believe.

Remember that?

I don't remember the slip up during the DOJ hearings.

Wanna hear something really scary? Those kiddies in the photo were in public school in Alabama during the 40s!!

[CopperheadNC]

I was one of those outcasts in high school (late 80s) who did not participate in the pledge. In my senior year, the home room teacher was a communist, and didn't have any problems with it at all. Funny that it was a pure statist who supported me in my stance against statism ....

On another note, one particular idiot called me un-American after school one day and I was forced to kick the ever loving shit out of him.

Those were the days.

[davidkachel]

IOn another note, one particular idiot called me un-American after school one day and I was forced to kick the ever loving shit out of him.

Isn't it peculiar that to be called un-American or unpatriotic is one of the surest signs that you are neither and the name-caller is both.