Caught Red-handed!!!!!!

[ecliptic]

Bev Harris and the dream team have caught the election fraudsters RED HANDED!!!


1-17-08: Ballot boxes found slit; NH stops putting ballots in vault (http://blackboxvoting.org/)

No worries, say New Hampshire officials when cuts up to eight inches long are spotted in newly delivered ballot boxes. "The only seal that counts is the one on top."

Except the seal on top can be peeled off without leaving a trace, then reaffixed.

Black Box Voting has been doing a chain of custody exam for the New Hampshire Primary's recount. On Wednesday night, Election Defense Alliance's Sally Castleman mentioned a troubling observation: After following the ballots back to the ballot vault following Wednesday's recount, she had the opportunity to enter the ballot vault, and noticed what looked like cuts, or slits, in the side of many ballot boxes. New Hampshire officials assured us that these cuts, which slice through the tape, seals and box itself do not permit access to the uncounted ballots, pointing to a label on the boxtop which they call a seal.

But the "seal" can be removed, like a Post-it, and reaffixed. So it's not a seal all!

We wanted to know if the ballot boxes were slit while in the vault, in the transport van, or came from the towns with slits in them.

I confirmed this morning that many if not most of the boxes scheduled to be counted today had slits in them. I went out when a vanload of ballots arrived, and saw that they were slit at the time they arrived by van. Susan Pynchon and I drove to two nearby towns and watched as they handed over their ballot boxes to "Butch and Hoppy", the two men who drive around in the state in a van picking the ballots up. We observed as they loaded boxes of ballots into the van with no slits at all in them. We videotaped each of these up close. They arrived at the destination without slits. The label on the top was affixed, but in some cases was crumpled, or also damaged.

Of cource, the label affixed to the top can be removed and reattached without telltale signs.

No vault tonight

A significant departure from the normal chain of custody path occurred tonight. They decided not to use the vault to store the ballots.

More tomorrow. More (http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/1954/71404.html)

[Marc3579]

Might have... But do you think that will go very far?

[ecliptic]

Might have... But do you think that will go very far?

It will go far towards making all the rest of the states' election supervisors think twice about their procedures. I think chain-of-custody and ballot integrity and full accounting for blank ballots will become front-burner issues for every American citizen. Let's apply pressure on every election supervisor - really "put them on the spot" and shine a bright light on the many many problems with the use of electronic vote counting.

The dream team are my heros!!!!

[Marc3579]

Oh I agree with you, I just hope this gets picked up by the media at large.

[daviddee]

...

[Give me liberty]

So McCain own by stealing eh?

[szczebrzeszyn]

Well, that's only your opinion OP. I didn't see Bev talking about catching anybody RED HANDED. Even the forum post you're quoting doesn't mention it. I'm not ruling anything out, but if you have the proof of a fraud in NH, you should contact the police dept. instead of yelling at the forums.

[rfbz]

New Hampshire officials assured us that these cuts, which slice through the tape, seals and box itself do not permit access to the uncounted ballots, pointing to a label on the boxtop which they call a seal.

Maybe I'm just ignorant here, but if the eight inch slits in the boxes do not permit access to the ballots, why would someone put slits in the boxes?

[szczebrzeszyn]

Maybe I'm just ignorant here, but if the eight inch slits in the boxes do not permit access to the ballots, why would someone put slits in the boxes?

Nobody knows thus far. The boxes arrived in such condition.

[Revolution9]

The simpletons on this thread are plants/shills or their level of intellectual development and ability to connect the dots are in the total failure category. So, keep up your trite and amusing obfuscatory gambit. the effing boxes were slit. that is tampering. That is proof of possible fraud and shows the way to a deeper and cogent evidentiary case to be established. the methods and means are being established as to how it occurred. The only question left is the level at which it occurred.

Obfuscators..Piss up a rope.. That is what the equivalent of your naysaying gambit would amount to anyways.

HTH
Randy

[Edu]

If you were a county employee who's ass was on the line because you "forgot" to put in some votes, would you ask your friend where the boxes are stored to let you see the box for a minute and just happen to do it during a coffee break?
On the other hand, do we have video yet? I am wondering if the slits are almost all the same, maybe a defect in the box? And what are they made of?

[Cleaner44]

Unless there is voter fraud discovered there are some in the crowd who will look for any reason to continue to say there was fraud.

In the end the recount will show the original results to be in the same range... and there will be no fraud.

The "slits" will be used as a way to say... "See there was fraud"

Through these slits they would have to remove all of the original ballots (to make sure the count is right), add in fake ballots to "cover their tracks", and then repeat this for the entire state or at least in hundreds of precincts.

You apparently have no understanding of the concept of "chain of custody" or an understanding that it does not matter what the recount shows if the ballots can be altered.

[daviddee]

...

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

They might have a chain of custody issue and seals that aren't really seals, but this isn't quite "red handed." And if the slits don't permit access to the ballots, I don't see why they keep mentioning it. Seals that aren't seals... well, that's stupid.

[liberty_Forever]

bump

Please, anyone with photo or video from Concord *please* pass it on to Bev Harris at http://blackboxvoting.org

[syborius]

Obfuscators?

Dude, I highly suggest you look at each and everyone of my posts and also to check the total amount of money I have donated to the Ron Paul campaign when the latest FEC filings are made.

To assume, instead of looking at the facts, that I am some plant... is insane.

I am merely stating the obvious... The amount of effort needed to defraud an election is massive. Especially knowing that if a recount happens you have to do even more activities to cover the original theft. Elections are setup in precincts for this reason... so you would have to do the same fraud over and over to get enough votes to sway the election. When the recount is done the totals will be inline with the original results. At which point you will assure yourself there was still fraud by the "slits".

Try this:

Put 1000 ballots in a standard cardboard box. Do this 10 times. Put yourself in the mindset of someone making $10 an hour working in snow and cold. Put those 10 boxes in a rental van. Drive 30 miles. Let me know the condition of the boxes when they arrive.


Let me make clear that I despise this government... but I also know that you do not need to steal votes when you control the people's minds/opinions with the mass media.



good call, and to commit fraud all you need to do is coordinate some counties, and when you have the majority running off of diebold it becomes a lot easier, tampered boxes, lost memory cards, etc, etc...one by one the fraud is being unearthed.

[Revolution9]

Obfuscators?

<snip self advertisement>
Try this:

Put 1000 ballots in a standard cardboard box. Do this 10 times. Put yourself in the mindset of someone making $10 an hour working in snow and cold. Put those 10 boxes in a rental van. Drive 30 miles. Let me know the condition of the boxes when they arrive.


Let me make clear that I despise this government... but I also know that you do not need to steal votes when you control the people's minds/opinions with the mass media.

I drive the thirty miles with very important boxes loaded with ballots that can cause a whole shitstorm of court activity and jail terms and carefully move them from one location to another. Anybody wanting to get into the chain of custody under my watch gets a size ten up their ass, a report to the media and a filing with the FEC. Next question obfuscator..

Randy

[daviddee]

...

[Wyurm]

what it amounts to is the state needs to start taking voting alot more seriously.

[Edu]

We need a "Mythbusters" style experiment performed. Get boxes just like those, including "seals" and see how hard it is to get ballots in/out. See how big of a slit you need etc...
Possibly get a magician to give some suggestions or try.
If you put it on it's side does it get easier? Heat it up so it's more pliable and it returns to normal after cooling?
Why about 8 inches? What size are the ballots? Is there lots of room in the box so it could be tipped and the ballots just slide out?

[daviddee]

...

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

The amount of effort needed to defraud an election is massive. Especially knowing that if a recount happens you have to do even more activities to cover the original theft. Elections are setup in precincts for this reason... so you would have to do the same fraud over and over to get enough votes to sway the election. When the recount is done the totals will be inline with the original results. At which point you will assure yourself there was still fraud by the "slits".

The slits are a non issue, but I agree with most of what you said. And while it would take massive effort to fix an entire election, things can be swayed in different directions by targeting precincts according to their expected return and effectiveness. Now we're talking about how effective election fraud is and how much of it can go unnoticed or unchalleneged. While some of it might go unnoticed, nothing that looks odd should go unchallenged. It's a slippery slope from there.

[daviddee]

...

[szczebrzeszyn]

How about we wait for the images of the "slits"?

+1
should come soon

[ecliptic]

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/6785/picture71ks1.png (http://www.bradblog.com/)

I find it amusing that anyone would argue that peel-off "seals" and 8 inch slits in many boxes are "OK"....

[JohnnyWrath]

what it amounts to is the state needs to start taking voting alot more seriously.

+1...we aren't voting for President of the local PTA. It is pathetic that real seals and proper containers and security are not used. They should lose their first in the nation status in my opinion.

[daviddee]

...

[newnews]

more election tampering provable in a court of law...

get those pictures and identify those responsible now!

[lastnymleft]

Slits considered in two dimensions are difficult to do anything with, but if you think in three dimensions, it's not hard to get ballots in/out. Simply push one side *in*, and pull the other one out a bit.

[shasshas]

what Infernal purpose can slits in ballot boxes serve anyway??!?!

i suggest...

REJECT!! REJECT!! REJECT THE RESULT!!!!!!

[liberty_Forever]

I'm sure the photographs and video will be available soon..


It seems the slits were not meant to remove ballots through, but rather were to break the seals on the boxes so they could be opened. I'll post more information as it's available.

[daviddee]

...

[gutteck]

You're joking... right?

Clinton: 683 619 -64
Edwards: 255 217 -38
Obama: 404 365 -40

How did this affect the results of the election?

If you assume this occurred in every precinct... would Hillary still not have won?

Do you know what your problem is? You are afraid of the truth. A discrepancy of 64 votes, broken seals, etc are OK according to you. That doesn't matter you might say. Maybe the photoscanner malfunctioned a bit, and maybe someone accidentally broke all those seals, but that is OK because what matters is that the results keep consistency with Fox and CNN. EXACTLY!

[torchbearer]

You're joking... right?

Clinton: 683 619 -64
Edwards: 255 217 -38
Obama: 404 365 -40

How did this affect the results of the election?

If you assume this occurred in every precinct... would Hillary still not have won?

All the top candidates on the dem side loosing votes on a recount... looks fishy.. how can a machine count too many votes for a candidate unless its taking votes from someeone else?

If they had all gained votes, that would make sense because the machine can miss votes all together.

[daviddee]

...

[newnews]

well thats good advice and maybe Bev Harris isn't connected to this information but if she is , and she says it, I believe it.

She was railing against vote fraud for a long long time, before 2000.

Her dad was also a famous voting activist, though I do not know his name. I would google it for you if you were interested.

Nonetheless she is spot on and has proven many many instances of fraud but the MEDIA needs to be basically cornered to report this stuff.

Even then they have small time patsies to take the fall.....but we ned to bust them and force election transparency and sanctity or else there will be no way to ever put a stop to this beast

[Revolution9]

And you have already made up your mind... as I stated in my first post.

Your mind is closed, decision is made, and regardless of the result you will always believe there was fraud.

There will no way to convince you otherwise... and that is why this recount is meaningless. You now understand why the campaign did not want to get involved in this.

P.S. I love how you <snip>... It demonstrates how your mind works... Eliminate facts that go against your belief system

Nice try. I am telling you I would handle it responsibly as a citizen should when entrusted with the publics trust and you come up with this galloping codswallop and balderdash. Try again shortstop.

Randy

[szczebrzeszyn]

All the top candidates on the dem side loosing votes on a recount... looks fishy.. how can a machine count too many votes for a candidate unless its taking votes from someeone else?

If they had all gained votes, that would make sense because the machine can miss votes all together.

As for Ward 5, where the biggest difference occured (-64 for hillary etc)

The widest variations so far were in Manchester's Ward 5. Vote counters there mistakenly transposed write-in votes for vice president as votes for presidential candidate. As a result, all major candidates lost votes. Kucinich lost three in the ward and has a total of 20 votes there. Hillary Clinton lost 64 with a new total of 619; John Edwards lost 38 and has 217 votes; Barack Obama lost 39 and has 365, and Bill Richardson lost seven, leaving him 39.

[Airborn]

All the top candidates on the dem side loosing votes on a recount... looks fishy.. how can a machine count too many votes for a candidate unless its taking votes from someeone else?

If they had all gained votes, that would make sense because the machine can miss votes all together.

here is what the State House Bureau Chief said about that: http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Primary+recount+continues+wi th+minor+changes&articleId=ad21f73a-f6e4-4f50-864c-2e417e08cdf6

[Menthol Patch]

It's prove now: The NH election was a FARCE!

[pcosmar]

No, my problem is I like to have ALL of the information before making a decision.

It is a character flaw... I know.

I wish I could latch onto every piece of 1/2 information provided, grab a gun, and run to the war... Oh wait, that is how we got into Iraq.

For the people jumping the gun here... How are your actions any different than the current administration's desire to find any piece of information they need to go to war?

Patience. Let all of the data come in and then make a REASONABLE decision.

You do have a point, to a point.
There is much information to prove that machines HAVE been hacked in the past. Many folks have been following this for a few years, not just this time in NH.
The unfortunate thing is that there have been few prosecutions and less media coverage.
Most people think that this is a secure and honest system.
Those that know better are looking for the smoking gun, the horrendous and blatant evidence that will blow the lid off.
With enough coverage and outrage we may be able to save the election process.

[Airborn]

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Primary+recount+continues+wi th+minor+changes&articleId=ad21f73a-f6e4-4f50-864c-2e417e08cdf6
But of couse they could always come up with any excuse

[daviddee]

...

[liberty_Forever]

We simply do not have enough information at the moment to draw definitive conclusions on the statistics... HOWEVER

The fact that Bev Harris is in NH now and there has been all sorts of nonsense (told they cannot film because a "mental hospital is nearby"??? wtf)

As well as the ballots being unloaded late at night in secret with evidence of tampering by the ballot truck drivers. This all is very shady. However, I agree we need the actual documentation which I am sure will be available sometime today. I'll see if I can get us some links asap.

[Airborn]

Check out this URL for the official recount site:

http://www.sos.nh.gov/recountresults.htm


Everyone lost votes in Ward 5 on the Democrats side (Republicans have not been recounted yet).

It would point to a machine issue there or something like that... as no one gained and the margin of difference on the candidates was in the range of 10%. Edwards lost slightly more votes on the recount than 10%.

that is why we shouldnt use machines... but here is what they are saying happened about ward 5 : http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Primary+recount+continues+wi th+minor+changes&articleId=ad21f73a-f6e4-4f50-864c-2e417e08cdf6

[Revolution9]

A constructive comment in a sea of b.s.!!

From a distance without seeing any visual proof of claims.... They could resolve the box damage/slits/etc by moving to metal of high strength plastic that are wrapped repeatedly (from all directions) with evidence tape and the tape is signed by the local elections official.

The memory cards are a red herring as there are paper ballots. To appease all the people in the crowd they could take those memory cards and put them in the above box. Ballots with the card used to count them. Tape the box... done.

Demand the boxes are securely fastened into the transport vehicle and hold the driver/delivery agent to the highest standards.

What the simpletons fail to understand is that unless the hand in the cookie jar can be found out, or the possibility of it being found out the hand will remain pilfering the cookie jar. Once momma got a grip on the cookie thief they may try it again but they are aware that momma's heavy hand may land flat on their arse. In this case jall terms will substitute for the spanking. There are people in jail for vote fraud from 04.

The lot of obfuscating whiners on this thread promulgate that we should just go about our daily business and let the perps get away without even a shake in their footwear. And to what purpose except to give them free hand to continue the obvious fraudulent voting and poll scams. Tahnk the Universal Intelligence their voices amount to flotsam on an endless sea.

If they find one person responsible for vote fraud they should immediately be indicted. The rule of law is of prime importance in the matters of governance. To pretend it isn't or that the raising of an alarm bell is uncalled for when the stench of fraud is in the air is to side on the behalf of those criminals attempting to rig the system. You can't see it any other way. Regardless of pre-installed and programmed blinders.

Randy

Randy

[daviddee]

...

[liberty_Forever]

ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION

http://blackboxvoting.org

[daviddee]

...

[BeFranklin]

Even 1 misplaced is a reason to be outraged.

We don't have this problem in our finance system, which adds and subtracts far more money every single day then votes are taking in an election. Imagine if people's checking accounts were regularly +/- 35 dollars everywhere.

[szczebrzeszyn]

So the question for most of the US population is:

1. Do you want instant gratification and results within 10 minutes of polls closing?
2. Do you want your vote totals in a few days?

Didn't we wait a few hours longer for machine-counted results in NH?

[liberty_Forever]

yes, indeed we did. the machine counted precincts took much longer than the hand counted ones.

[Shink]

We need a "Mythbusters" style experiment performed. Get boxes just like those, including "seals" and see how hard it is to get ballots in/out. See how big of a slit you need etc...
Possibly get a magician to give some suggestions or try.
If you put it on it's side does it get easier? Heat it up so it's more pliable and it returns to normal after cooling?
Why about 8 inches? What size are the ballots? Is there lots of room in the box so it could be tipped and the ballots just slide out?

Mythbusters? They'd blow that shit up! How're they going to help?!:confused::D

To expand my post a bit: 8 inches would surely be enough to fit a hand through. I have bigass hands and they are about 4 inches in width. I could most likely get my hand in there without a hitch.

[Catatonic]

Maybe I'm just ignorant here, but if the eight inch slits in the boxes do not permit access to the ballots, why would someone put slits in the boxes?

Well, you'd be right if the seal on the top of the boxes was really a seal instead of a glorified sticker. The only non replaceable seal on these boxes has been cut, but they're saying thats okay because a replaceable sticker on the top is still intact. You decide for yourself how reassuring that is.

[HollyforRP]

I drive the thirty miles with very important boxes loaded with ballots that can cause a whole shitstorm of court activity and jail terms and carefully move them from one location to another. Anybody wanting to get into the chain of custody under my watch gets a size ten up their ass, a report to the media and a filing with the FEC. Next question obfuscator..

Randy

You branding supporters nasty titles doesn't make you look any better. I don't care how long you have been here but you sound really nasty.

[HollyforRP]

This looks very familiar to your last post.

I am going to make a script that will post the similar diatribe over and over so you don't have to.

Do you have anything constructive to add or are we going to sling insults and innuendo over and over?


Don't listen to him.

[Airborn]

Even 1 misplaced is a reason to be outraged.

We don't have this problem in our finance system, which adds and subtracts far more money every single day then votes are taking in an election. Imagine if people's checking accounts were regularly +/- 35 dollars everywhere.

Good point. People would step up then eh?

[dawnbt]

Let's not forget, the purpose of this recount is not for Ron to move up into first place, it is to determine whether or not voting machines are fraudulent. Black Box Voting has been working for years to get rid of voting machines and return to paper ballots as it should be. If this can be proven in a court of law, then we have a chance of getting rid of these machines. They are working their butts off our there and we should trust what they say. If you ever want a secure election, the time to take action is now. This is just one step in the fight of government corruption.

[PatriotOne]

Seems like the slits in the boxes are not as bad as at first glance as the slits did not actually go through the boxes. See new post from Bev Harris below. Though it does bring up the question of where the hell they are getting their boxes. Are they dumpster diving for them behind Walmart or what?


Writing this last night, I was quite tired. I will post photos - the slits are not "through the box" in the sense that they are in the middle of the cardboard. They deliver the ballots in a variety of cardboard boxes. The lid of the cardboard box is taped and has various seals on it, some old, from using the box before, some new. The slits cut through any tape or seals. They don't cut into the cardboard itself, and I'm going to edit the post above to clarify that.

The other thing that isn't clear from the above post is the timing.

The normal procedure has been:
- bring the incoming ballot boxes into the front door of the building
- roll them through the counting room, which is a large room similar to a library reference room
- from there to roll the cart containing the incoming ballot boxes through the back door of the counting room
- insert key card into the warehouse area door
- roll the ballots down the hall in the warehouse
- open the ballot "vault" door with a key (it is a sturdy metal door but opens with a single key)
- put the incoming ballots in the vault
- When they will be counted, take them from the vault back into the counting room.


1. We noticed the slits in the vault and confirmed when they brought the ballots out that the slits were still there.

2. Then we looked at the ballot boxes as they were being delivered. Those, too, had slits.

3. Then we visited towns that had ballots scheduled for pickup. We had time to visit only two towns. Both towns had ballot boxes with no slits.

4. While at these towns, we waited for the pickup van to show up. When it did, we videotaped the ballot boxes already in it.

5. When we got back to the archive building where they were having the recount, we awaited the van with the ballot boxes we just videotaped. We waited quite a while. Almost everyone left, the recount ended for the day, and still no van. The van finally pulled in after all but a couple observers had gone home. We videotaped what came out of the van. It was in the same condition as what we videotaped at the towns. Of course, Butch and Hoppy knew we had been taking videotape because we did it right in front of them.

What they did last night, with the incoming batch that we had photographed in the field, was roll them into the counting room. We waited. The handful of officials waited. These officials included Secretary of State Bill Gardner, Head of the Archive building Frank Mevers, Assistant secretary of state David Scanlan, Ballot transport drivers "Butch and Hoppy" (whose names are really Armand and Peter); Kucinich representatives Manny and Pat, a secretary of state assistant named, I think, Karen Hand.

They waited. We waited. It was very odd, to me at least. The ballots were sitting in the middle of the counting room, all these officials were standing around talking quietly with each other. I assumed they were waiting for something, results sheets perhaps. I decided to stay with video ready until the ballots were wheeled back to the vault.

One of the transport guys, "Hoppy" I think, then said that the ballots would not be taken to the vault that night because it was "closed" -- implying that whoever had the key was no longer there. Frank Mevers had the key. But I saw Frank Mevers. And the ballots had been moved to the vault even later the night before, because counting teams had stayed and counted up until about 7 pm.

So Sally and I waited. They affixed one of these post-it peelable labels on each front door and said everyone will leave out the back door and the order was given for all to leave. We filed out the back door. I asked Secretary of State Bill Gardner why there was a change in procedure. He did not answer. I asked him again. After about three tries, he just said "it's secure."

The handful of officials and the two Kucinich people hung around the back door. I asked more questions about why the ballots were being left in a room with no key card. They put one of the label stickers over the door and said "it's secure." I continued to wait with this small group of people. Finally they told us to leave and everyone left the building.

We got in our car and drove a ways away. Most of the people left. Bill Gardner and Anthony Stevens stayed around for a while, standing outside the loading bay talking. Then they left.

The upshot: The ballots we had videotaped in the van being transported, which arrived intact without slits, were not taken to the vault and were not kept in a location requiring keycard access last night (except that entering the building itself requires a keycard)

* * * * *

To put my concerns about this in context:

Paddy Shaffer and I arrived at the archive building on Tuesday afternoon prepared to videotape incoming ballots as they came in that afternoon and throughout the night. We were told the (in my opinion) contrived story that no videotaping would be permitted because mental patients from a hospital about a block away might wander into the parking lot/loading area. We made a point of pressuring Bill Gardner to have this ban lifted.

They had clearly been planning for ballots to begin arriving Tuesday. I asked Frank Mevers, head of the archive building, if he could walk us through the observation area where the ballot intake process would take place. At that point he went into the back, had a long phone call, and came out saying they wouldn't be delivering the ballots that night.

http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/1954/71404.html

[daviddee]

...

[wowabunga]

Put yourself in the mindset of someone making $10 an hour working in snow and cold. Put those 10 boxes in a rental van. Drive 30 miles. Let me know the condition of the boxes when they arrive.


Yea I know "those people" all too well... They worked at the airlines I used to be employed with in the late 1990's.... no one ever bothered to lock and arm the jetway doors to the planes. In the morning we'd find homeless people napping in the first class seats.

Every day I complained to management but they didn't give a rats tail. And the government agency called the FAA had it's head up it's arse so they were no help. Twice a year we'd get a FAA warning telling us we'd be inspected in the coming week.... the jetway door security procedures improved 2 weeks out of the calendar year.

Yes I know those $10 employees. I know their incompetent managers, and I know the government paper pushers all TOO WELL. Sad, but so true, that things will stay the same until our citizens wake up.

-Ramblin Randy
George Washington's HQ was in a tent on the edge of the action... I propose a GRASS ROOTS HQ bus on wheels.... maybe half a dozen of them. Why give our promotional dollars to the media companies who cheer for our demise ?

[acptulsa]

All the top candidates on the dem side loosing votes on a recount... looks fishy.. how can a machine count too many votes for a candidate unless its taking votes from someeone else?

If they had all gained votes, that would make sense because the machine can miss votes all together.

In any case, the voice of the people aren't being heard.

You seem to be forgetting that New Hampshire has open primaries--which means that votes could be getting stolen from Democrats in order to benefit some Republican or another.

What we need is to get on every uncensored website and post this news--not in the name of Ron Paul, but simply in the name of democracy. The voters need to start taking an interest in ensuring the legitimacy of our elections! That will be good for Dr. Paul without mentioning him, will be good for getting voters interested in this election, will be good for the Constitution--just get people looking!

[affa]

Unless there is voter fraud discovered there are some in the crowd who will look for any reason to continue to say there was fraud.


And, strangely, there are some that would close their eyes, cover their ears, and sing lalalalalalalicanthearyou if someone presented videotaped footage of men in masks actually replacing votes in a 'sealed' box.

[maeqFREEDOMfree]

Oh I agree with you, I just hope this gets picked up by the media at large.

which it wont be :-(

[TNTCAN]

I understand the purpose... I stand by my original comment that the recount will not change the results of the election.

Bev is being paid... this is not charity. Her bias is that she needs inconsistencies to continue to solicit donations. I commend her for what she does, but one can never forget that without the accusation of "voter fraud" her need for existence disappears... as do the donations.

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/donate.html

Our government is being paid, they are not a charity. Their bias is that they need control to keep up this thing called Democracy. I commend them for their great work, but one can NEVER forget that without this control of votes, their need of existence disappears. :D

[affa]

I am merely stating the obvious... The amount of effort needed to defraud an election is massive.


It's called bang for the buck. Yes, it would take energy to do it, and some level of expenditure. But it would be worth trillions in the long run. It also hurt the momentum of the movement and sets people up to accept lower %s in other states that have no paper trail.

I'm not saying it happened, though i'd say slit boxes and missing memory cards are suspicious.


Let me make clear that I despise this government... but I also know that you do not need to steal votes when you control the people's minds/opinions with the mass media.

The argument could be made that 'they' can't allow this movement to reach a critical mass. If RP had even twice the votes that he did in NH, people would be more likely to drop the electability issue. So while I agree with you that they're operating on the mass media front, it does not preclude vote tampering.

[affa]

We need to see the videos/photos of the "slits".

As I said before... These slits would need to be big enough to remove the ballots, the ballot total would need to be counted and ensured, and replacement ballots inserted thru the same slit.


The slits could be a red herring, since the 'seal' is easily removable.

1. Remove seal.
2. Change vote.
3. Reseal.
4. Slit box.

why slit the box? well, you slit the box in a suspicious way that couldn't actually be used to alter the vote. then when the slits are shown in video to be nothing serious, it deflects criticism of vote fraud... the fact that the seal wasn't good is forgotten. Misdirection.

[N13]

The slits could be a red herring, since the 'seal' is easily removable.

1. Remove seal.
2. Change vote.
3. Reseal.
4. Slit box.

why slit the box? well, you slit the box in a suspicious way that couldn't actually be used to alter the vote. then when the slits are shown in video to be nothing serious, it deflects criticism of vote fraud... the fact that the seal wasn't good is forgotten. Misdirection.

OR the slit is a way of marking the box so that "you" can keep inventory of the boxes. A magic marker would be too obvious, but a mysterious slit that can carry multiple meanings can slip by for something other than what it really is.

[ronpauleddy]

Guys!!!
I know they are doing there best to stop this TSUNAMI, but crying foul at every little thing is frankly getting lame!!
F**K what they are doing!!!
Get off the computer and talk to people!!
The harder they fight to keep us down...the harder we FIGHT BACK!!

LETS MAKE THIS MLK BOMB ENORMOUS!!! SO THEY CAN SEE THAT ALL THERE B.S. IS NOT GETTING US DOWN!!

Im in for another $100!!!

THIS IS WAR PEOPLE!! NO TIME FOR CRYING ON THE BATTLEFIELD!!
Edit/Delete Message

[hillertexas]

In case anyone is interested:
WMUR Newsroom/Bureau Mailing Addresses - New Hampshre

We want to hear from you! Mail or E-mail your questions and or comments to a specific department by selecting below.
WMUR-TV Broadcast Center
100 South Commercial Street
Manchester, NH 03101
1-800-257-5151
FAX: (603) 641-9005

WMUR-TV Lakes Region Bureau
Inn at Bay Point
Meredith, NH 03253
(603) 279-9090

WMUR-TV Portsmouth Bureau
One Harbour Place
Portsmouth, NH 03801
(603) 430-9687

You can send us news-related pictures at newspics@wmur.com. Total file size of attachments should not exceed 15 MB

[Paulbot_9876]

Guys!!!
I know they are doing there best to stop this TSUNAMI, but crying foul at every little thing is frankly getting lame!!
F**K what they are doing!!!
Get off the computer and talk to people!!
The harder they fight to keep us down...the harder we FIGHT BACK!!

LETS MAKE THIS MLK BOMB ENORMOUS!!! SO THEY CAN SEE THAT ALL THERE B.S. IS NOT GETTING US DOWN!!

Im in for another $100!!!

THIS IS WAR PEOPLE!! NO TIME FOR CRYING ON THE BATTLEFIELD!!
Edit/Delete Message


the point is to get rid of e-voting......what part dont you understand about this???? slits in side of boxes ,if they go complete through...means ballots can be slid into the boxes..... lower counts than what was original means the votes was being taken from some where or vote fraud has occured here????

[xcalybur]

What everyone doesn't seem to understand is that the NH ballots could be comprised quite easily and Bev is trying to put all the pieces together.

This is how it would be done the easiest way:

All the precincts have reported in the results and diebold/contractor have rigged the voter cards in the diebold machines to come out with a certain result. The media has that result as the official number. Diebold/contractor/state official picks up the diebold machines/voter cards and stores them. In the mean time they loose the voter cards (This part has been proven by the recount so far, they can't find the voter cards). Second, the printed ballots are shipped to a warehouse for storage and possible recount if necessary. Diebold/contractor slits the boxes and changes the ballots to what the machines were supposed to report (Part of this has been proven, the slits in the boxes). When the recount takes place the printed ballots come close to the official numbers. The reason they aren't exact is because they make it look that way as well as the diebold machines are junk and make mistakes anyways.

[daviddee]

...

[gb13]

Maybe I'm just ignorant here, but if the eight inch slits in the boxes do not permit access to the ballots, why would someone put slits in the boxes?

Good question. There is no other reason. Whether the ballots were removed or altered, though, is anybody's guess.

[daviddee]

...

[deronde]

Please, please, please... send video evidence to major news corps and then lay the pressure on them to make a story out of it

[daviddee]

...

[SneakyFrenchSpy]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2025/2201019136_808debe736.jpg?v=0

I didn't see it posted on this thread, taken from http://www.flickr.com/photos/rjf7r/sets/72157603742281975

[TNTCAN]

I have been waiting for the photo/video release all day.

Unfortunately, when it is released the "slits" will either not be visible or so small... that "slit" will have to be redefined in the release.

I have gotten all too used to these common tactics of exaggeration, exclusion of facts (that make a huge difference when not "mentioned"), etc etc.

I am hoping it is different this time, but I doubt it.

Just have to show that the tape they used was NOT TAMPER PROOF. enough with the slits, distractions

[daviddee]

...

[Mark]

The simpletons on this thread are plants/shills or their level of intellectual development and ability to connect the dots are in the total failure category. So, keep up your trite and amusing obfuscatory gambit. the effing boxes were slit. that is tampering. That is proof of possible fraud and shows the way to a deeper and cogent evidentiary case to be established. the methods and means are being established as to how it occurred. The only question left is the level at which it occurred.

Obfuscators..Piss up a rope.. That is what the equivalent of your naysaying gambit would amount to anyways.

HTH
Randy

QFT - The "seal" can be peeled off and put back on with no trace of being removed.

We no longer have a Republic "Of, For, and By The People".

"It is enough that the people know there was an election.

The people who cast the votes decide nothing.

The people who count the votes decide everything. " - Joseph Stalin

[liberty_Forever]

PLEASE donate to Black Box Voting so they can bring in more volunteers to film this nonsense!!!

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/donate.html

[ecliptic]

I apologize if my headline was "sensationalizing" the situation. Bottom line is the dream team and Bev Harris are doing the hard ground work of defending our republic from an insidious enemy within our borders. We are being attacked from within.

• support BlackBox Voting chip-in if you can
• support Ron Paul ( duh! )
• Stay focused on delegates and upcoming primary action... primarily... and keep one eye out for this historic "voting rights smack-down"

. . . it's The Dream Team vs. The LHS x-Cons in the "re-count smack-down" for all the marbles.

Let's get ready to RRRRRRRUUUUUMMMMBBBBLLLLEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

[NeoRayden]

Found this:

http://www.topix.com/city/la-porte-in/2008/01/cityoflaporte-in-exclusive-machines-more-effichant-at-counting-than-humans

[liberty_Forever]

haha

[affa]

Well we now know these are metal boxes... which is great.

Look at the latch on the box on the left side. This box was already received and opened. So as expected it is not a "slit" it is cut... like when they CUT it, unlatch it, and remove the ballots for recount.


You are making the assumption that the box was already received and opened.

From the first line of the first post of this thread:

"No worries, say New Hampshire officials when cuts up to eight inches long are spotted in newly delivered ballot boxes. "The only seal that counts is the one on top.""

So... according to people on the ground, the boxes are coming IN with these slits. And you still think there isn't even a CHANCE of something fishy going on?

[liberty_Forever]

NO -- This is *not* normal

When the Ballots leave the precinct vault there is NO SLIT. When they are carted into the central location in Concord NH they have been tampered with.

[Menthol Patch]

The NH primary needs to be RE DONE!

The fact those boxes were open makes the re-count invalid.

[Menthol Patch]

NO -- This is *not* normal

When the Ballots leave the precinct vault there is NO SLIT. When they are carted into the central location in Concord NH they have been tampered with.

I agree.

The recount is invalid now. We must demand a new primary.

[liberty_Forever]

Well we can't get anything re-done without tons of video evidence....

This is why we need to do donate a few thousand to Black Box Voting, so they can bring in more people with cameras over the weekend. If we can get adequate proof that the recount is suspect they certainly should not trust these election results.

[ecliptic]

Well we now know these are metal boxes... which is great.
We also now know that boxes were wrapped in tape and signed by each of the election officials for that ward/city. Look at the latch on the box on the left side. This box was already received and opened. So as expected it is not a "slit" it is cut... like when they CUT it, unlatch it, and remove the ballots for recount.
Note the lock also... These boxes are metal and locked. Additionally, why was the photo cropped :) Let's see the whole picture. Note the size of the picture 375x500... Not sure about you, but no camera I have ever owned offers this as an available size. I suspect you would see all around the above box... other boxes that have been opened.

One photo of one box ( source? ) does not allow for "conclusions" about the other hundreds of boxes...

BBV Forums (http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/1954/71404.html)


Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 6:32 am:
Another thing I noticed was that, during the intake examination and sorting (sorting republican ballots and uncast ballots from cast ballots) some of the cardboard boxes were opened from the bottom -- completely avoiding the need to even touch the seal.

I will say that, to the credit of at least some of the staff (or to the credit that I was watching), when they put the labels on the boxes they were re-sealing they put the filament tape partially over a new label. While I observed this on some of the boxes that entered the room, I can't say I looked that carefully at most of them. (Also, I was only there the first day and thus only saw boxes from Manchester. It should be pointed out that some of the boxes are metal boxes -- I suspect that both labels and tape can be cleanly removed from them. The metal boxes also had locks on them -- I don't know how widely held are the keys.)

I still am wondering what the known handling of the ballots is after they leave the voters' hands. Do they immediately go into the machine? Or are they batched? Also, how are republican and democratic ballots separated? Are the boxes we saw at the recount supposed to have been sealed at the polls with the public (or at least observers) present?

So depending on who has keys to the locks - the metal boxes are potentially easy to tamper with due to the re-sealable labels. The cardboard boxes have slits in them and can be opened from the bottom without disturbing the "seal". None of the votes are properly secured and evidence of tampering remains a serious concern. Also the removeable memory cards are missing. And days are going by without even getting all the ballots to the re-count location, providing ample additional opportunties for tampering.

All is not well.

[InLoveWithRon]

The simpletons on this thread are plants/shills or their level of intellectual development and ability to connect the dots are in the total failure category. So, keep up your trite and amusing obfuscatory gambit. the effing boxes were slit. that is tampering. That is proof of possible fraud and shows the way to a deeper and cogent evidentiary case to be established. the methods and means are being established as to how it occurred. The only question left is the level at which it occurred.

Obfuscators..Piss up a rope.. That is what the equivalent of your naysaying gambit would amount to anyways.

HTH
Randy

good post

.