Issue:Justice:Pardons for people convicted of victimless crimes?

[SeanEdwards]

Should a President Ron Paul consider pardoning people convicted of victimless crimes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victimless_crime_(political_philosophy)

[SwordOfShannarah]

We'd save a lot of money and a lot of lives (as in being able to live them) if we let people out of prison.

[SeanEdwards]

I think Paul could really stir things up if he announced that he intended a full review of the U.S. prison population and executive pardons for all those people incarcerated for victimless crimes.

[PennCustom4RP]

This would really depend on what is considered a 'victimless crime'. I could agree that most personal use or possession drug offenses are victimless, but not the drug manufacturers or large scale dealers who sell to minors. Same with willing participation in prostitution, but the flip side of that is those coerced into the sex slave trade, again this involves minors and drugs. Does victimless mean most all traffic violations, or having no license, or insurance, DWI, provided no wreck occurs?
Does the term victim mean some violence has occurred, or just that someone was wronged? Society as a whole is the victim of crime.

[SeanEdwards]

This would really depend on what is considered a 'victimless crime'. I could agree that most personal use or possession drug offenses are victimless, but not the drug manufacturers or large scale dealers who sell to minors. Same with willing participation in prostitution, but the flip side of that is those coerced into the sex slave trade, again this involves minors and drugs. Does victimless mean most all traffic violations, or having no license, or insurance, DWI, provided no wreck occurs?
Does the term victim mean some violence has occurred, or just that someone was wronged? Society as a whole is the victim of crime.

My opinion is that there is no crime unless there is an unwilling human (or animal) victim. So, I would consider all drug possesion, drug distribution, prostitution, etc. as not being crimes. Also stuff like polygamy should not be a crime, as long as all the participants are consenting adults.

Many traffic violations are not crimes but are more properly described as infractions. I don't think anyone is in prison for driving without insurance. However, drunk driving is a crime. It's kind of like randomly discharging a firearm in a public place. It's criminally negligent. Same goes for running an illegal meth lab because those things explode and are therefore a direct danger to the community.

[PennCustom4RP]

However, drunk driving is a crime. It's kind of like randomly discharging a firearm in a public place. It's criminally negligent. Same goes for running an illegal meth lab because those things explode and are therefore a direct danger to the community.

I would agree with you on these points, and why I raised the question. But, are these crimes because of their 'potential' for injuring people? One could make the same argument as is made with firearms...'Guns don't kill people, people kill people..therefor...Meth labs don't kill people, people who carelessly operate a meth lab kills people.
As for the DWI, if no unwilling human or animal victim was involved, by your standard there was no crime.
Is it only criminally negligent when someone gets hurt?

[ChooseLiberty]

First you'd have to LEGALIZE the victimless crimes. Then you could pardon people. Otherwise they'd just end up right back in jail.

[SeanEdwards]

As for the DWI, if no unwilling human or animal victim was involved, by your standard there was no crime.
Is it only criminally negligent when someone gets hurt?

A person randomly discharging a firearm in a public place is guilty of criminal negligence, even if nobody is injured.

[axiomata]

I voted no.

ChooseLiberty made a good point.

Personally, I'd commute and give them community service (after possession and prostitution is decriminalized).

A question for the 'yes' people. Say an illegal immigrant was caught. However, it was found out that he never used the emergency room for health care. Didn't send any kids to public school. Lived on a farm working hard (didn't have a car that made him use tax-payer-paid roads ... didn't take advantage of the system in any way really). Not to mention the fact that I'm sure many of you feel that refusual to pay income taxes is noble (perhaps a victimless crime). Basically, as an illegal immigrant he committed a "victimless crime." Should he be pardoned and allowed to stay?

[PennCustom4RP]

A person randomly discharging a firearm in a public place is guilty of criminal negligence, even if nobody is injured.

Ok, but thats the Why is it a crime....just because rationale.

As are all the other victimless crimes discussed thus far.

Even while I agree with all said so far...

[SeanEdwards]

I voted no.

ChooseLiberty made a good point.

Personally, I'd commute and give them community service (after possession and prostitution is decriminalized).

A question for the 'yes' people. Say an illegal immigrant was caught. However, it was found out that he never used the emergency room for health care. Didn't send any kids to public school. Lived on a farm working hard (didn't have a car that made him use tax-payer-paid roads ... didn't take advantage of the system in any way really).


His victims are the pool of legal workers. His crime is a variation of fraud.



Not to mention the fact that I'm sure many of you feel that refusual to pay income taxes is noble (perhaps a victimless crime). Basically, as an illegal immigrant he committed a "victimless crime." Should he be pardoned and allowed to stay?

Why should he be allowed to stay in any case?

[BravoSix]

Should he be pardoned and allowed to stay?


He's not serving a sentence in prison. Being deported is not a punishment for a criminal act no more than evicting a trespasser from your property is punishment for a criminal act.

[Capitalism]

His victims are the pool of legal workers. His crime is a variation of fraud.

Why should he be allowed to stay in any case?

People are not entitled to jobs. Jobs are created by individuals who get to decide to whom they give them.

He should be "allowed" to stay because he is a non-violent individual who supports himself.