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ghemminger
01-14-2008, 04:30 PM
HQ listened in to many of our concerns but were unable to repond, at least on the call. I will be following up in the next few days to see if we have a response.

Currently there are 3 major movements within the campaign asking for redirecting existing staff or hiring new strategists. We are bringing up the concept of an executive level board and direct communications with Ron.

Many of the concerns brought up in threads on this board were discussed and we are giving the campaign time to respond. Thanks

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The following are what I remember being mentioned. The following are NOT in order.

1) The campaign needs to communicate better with the grassroots. Many people are very upset about this.

2) If the campaign cannot communicate with the campaign for legal reasons those reasons need to be specified.

3) The campaign needs to have one person work full-time communicating within the limits of the law to the grassroots.

4) The racism issue was discussed.

5) It was mentioned the campaign needs to set a new fundraising goal and put a meter on their website.

6) They need to state when the money needs to be raised by and what it will be spent on.

7) The campaign needs to take advantage of all the talent in the grassroots. There are people who would work for free or almost free.

8) If the campaign does not address these issues then a group of people will contact Ron Paul.

9) The campaign needs to stop canceling radio interviews.



Steve Martin

The bureaucracy in this campaign is harmful. We are trying to give the grassroots a seat at the table.

I know that a letter was hand-delivered to RP this afternoon which contained many of our concerns.

We could all use a little reality check. The fact is, RP is being BLACKED out totally on the MSM now--even on CNN, who gave us a brief spurt of publicity prior to NH. That is in part due to the very poor effort the campaign has made to coordinate with the media--even in the simple things, like posting RP's events calendar in the AP date book.

They have stiffed many media people for pre-arranged interviews. That stuff is just plain inexcusable.

I would hazard to guess that 90% of those with concerns about national HQ would have agreed with 90% of what was brought up with HQ on the conference call. No one here is doing this out of any desire to "take over" or to pump themselves up at the expense of others. These folks on the call are all (to the best of my knowledge--and I've spoken to all of them many times) trying to do ONE THING AND ONE THING ONLY--Get Dr. Paul elected. They are acting out of an honest sense of patriotism, as best as I can tell.

I wish I could be sure that getting Dr. Paul elected was the #1 goal of everyone in Arlington, but, at this point in time, I can not say that...and that scares the heck out of me.


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http://www.ronpaulforums.com/gfx_RedWhiteBlue/icons/icon1.gif Stop the madness
George, thank you for the effort you are making.

The people who are responding on this thread (except SteveMartin and a few other exceptions) are vile and immature.

Read this thread and you will see why I have basically withdrawn from this forum.

And I don't want to hear about how this is an exception--just withdraw.

Almost everyone who has posted here should ask themselves, would Ron Paul respond this way to a fellow supporter?

Would he?

I leave you to your originally scheduled gratuitous immature bashing.

LWL

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I hand delivered that letter to Ron Paul in Carson City, NV. It was very respectful of course. It just said how we were desperate for a president like him and as a vet of the Iraq war I wanted him to stop the war so more of my buddies don't get killed in maimed in a war that is not in America's interest, and as a husband whose wife has diabetes, the economic and healthcare crises make it so we need him more than anything. Then it said I wished he would do much more than the good old "college try" and instead really set out to win this thing, and hire really effective campaign staff and improve the ads and really address the racism thing.

trey4sports
01-14-2008, 04:31 PM
nice work george

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 04:32 PM
nice work george

Thanks

Soccrmastr
01-14-2008, 04:35 PM
Sweet, this is what we need!

trey4sports
01-14-2008, 04:35 PM
Since when did we the grassroots call for more bureaucracy???

we need a direct line with ron.....

Menthol Patch
01-14-2008, 04:40 PM
The following are what I remember being mentioned. The following are NOT in order.

1) The campaign needs to communicate better with the grassroots. Many people are very upset about this.

2) If the campaign cannot communicate with the campaign for legal reasons those reasons need to be specified.

3) The campaign needs to have one person work full-time communicating within the limits of the law to the grassroots.

4) The racism issue was discussed.

5) It was mentioned the campaign needs to set a new fundraising goal and put a meter on their website.

6) They need to state when the money needs to be raised by and what it will be spent on.

7) The campaign needs to take advantage of all the talent in the grassroots. There are people who would work for free or almost free.

8) If the campaign does not address these issues then a group of people will contact Ron Paul.

9) The campaign needs to stop canceling radio interviews.

SteveMartin
01-14-2008, 04:42 PM
I can vouch for that! The bureaucracy in this campaign is harmful. We are trying to give the grassroots a seat at the table.

I know that a letter was hand-delivered to RP this afternoon which contained many of our concerns.

Ronin
01-14-2008, 04:48 PM
Did they have answers for what you guys talked about last week?

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 04:49 PM
Did they have answers for what you guys talked about last week?

No answers directly from the campaign but we are learning all we need to know through indirect means of communications

SteveMartin
01-14-2008, 04:51 PM
We also discussed what happened in Michigan, and the miserable staff that was hired there, the lack of advertising, availability of materials, etc.

We also discussed the need to get Big "L" Libertarians out of their current dominant role within campaign HQ and into a shared-power arrangement with other RP supporters not of the big "L" Libertarian persuasion.

LLepard also made it very clear that we CAN know who was behind the semi-racist comments found in the newsletters, and that this person must come forward and "fall on his sword" and that RP should cut all ties with that person(s).

dante
01-14-2008, 04:51 PM
No answers directly from the campaign but we are learning all we need to know through indirect means of communications

care to pass along to the rest of us what you have learned indirectly?

Soccrmastr
01-14-2008, 04:54 PM
This is looking to turn out very good!

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 04:54 PM
care to pass along to the rest of us what you have learned indirectly?

In a nut shell - something you don't reallly want to hear.... The top level executives in this campaign need to be replaced....with high level competent national campaign strategists......

SteveMartin
01-14-2008, 05:08 PM
Do whatever you want guys. The bottom line is, if we do poorly in MI tomorrow changes MUST COME, and you will all need to wake up and smell the coffee and join those of us who are TRYING to make improvements, or not...But leave George alone. None of us are perfect, but some of us have way too much invested in this movement to just let it fade into a footnote in history.

Dlynne
01-14-2008, 05:15 PM
In a nut shell - something you don't reallly want to hear.... The top level executives in this campaign need to be replaced....with high level competent national campaign strategists......


Yes, yes, yes!!!! We want to win...we need to win! I just hope "strategists" include top notch, experienced media coordinators or relations people.

Thank you ghemminger, and anyone else who made this contact with the Paul campaign happen! Thank you.

LukeNM
01-14-2008, 05:18 PM
I was not invited to be on a conference call -- who else was on this call and how were they chosen to represent me. Maybe I do not agree with your issues. I am 100% supportive of Ron Paul and HQ.

free.alive
01-14-2008, 05:20 PM
ghemminger, I don't know you, nor do i intend to quibble. but it is much better to engage those who disagree with you than try to smear their character or just dismiss them, especially when their concerns are valid.

By the way, when was this conference call and who was invited?

MayTheRonBeWithYou
01-14-2008, 05:21 PM
Did you ask them where are our anti-war ad is?????????????????????????

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 05:21 PM
ghemminger - i'm sure your intentions are noble, however I concur with Troyhand.

If certain people among the grassroots had their way we'd be focusing on pointless newspaper ads, limos, firing the campaign staff, funding pointless recounts, protesting and chasing the media and funding extremely bland, uninformative ads that offer no strategic value such as the jeremiah Black ads - all INSTEAD of canvassing and signing up as precincts leaders. The logic is lost on me.

I don't support a grassroots executive central planning management committee. We have a representative with the campaign. They're working hard. It's now time for us to get focused on the couple things we should be doing to spread the word, identify voters and plug them into the database.


Thanks Free - I am involved with opening multiple offices for the campaign - but there are many things you are not privy too - and blind faith will not let us win - have you seen the fundraising numbers? You are in the minority of the RP base....

akalucas
01-14-2008, 05:22 PM
One way or another we need good communication NOW. No communication is what is slowing this movement down, causing confusion and unnecessary speculation. I guess if people don't want a few people speaking for them that can be fixed by having a section in this forum where the campaign can only post threads in to ask for feedback and based on that feedback they can make a decision. They could also use this section to make statements and what not. Hopefully from here the info can spread throughout the internet.

I feel them posting stuff in ronpaul2008.com is not having the effect they want cause people cant post feedback. They have posted numerous times about precinct captains and how important it is for success but I dont sense the urgency here or other places like youtube that november 5th did or tea party had. Maybe having them post it here and allow feedback will motivate people somehow. Having Paul post here and him replying would do wonders with motivation. Maybe it would take an hour of his day but it would be a well invested hour.

freedom_junkie
01-14-2008, 05:22 PM
I believe the big L's are taking over the campaign as well. guess who heads NY and all its counties practically? Guess who most of the NY delegates are?? meanwhile these people don't number as much as the rest.

Note to the big L's. If you expect us to blindly follow you if RP doesn't get the nomination, take heed. We have mind of our own. We will vote all over the place, some dem, some repub, some constitutional, some lib and some green. Ideolgy does not get the job done. I know many Libs who are not on this agenda, but then again, I know many Libs who are.

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 05:23 PM
ghemminger, I don't know you, nor do i intend to quibble. but it is much better to engage those who disagree with you than try to smear their character or just dismiss them, especially when their concerns are valid.

By the way, when was this conference call and who was invited?


It is Monday 1:00 and invatations were sent out to 20+ grassroots organizations

PlaytoWin
01-14-2008, 05:23 PM
You people need to back the F off of Ghemminger. The bottom line is this:

1) Every issue he listed is real and needs to change from the Paul Campaign

2) He is obviously doing somehting right because he and a few others have the ear of the campaign - they actually had a meeting to address our concerns. he should be thanked for what he did.

3) Troy, it makes no sense to pursue a communication startegy that does not feature an established communication channel to the grassroots. What do you expect the campaign to do, make time in their already busy schedule to field calls from everyone?

4) We need to dispense with all egos and quit bickering. We are running out of time. The only thing that matters is results and it seems like this is a good first step.

Couple of questions:

1) When discussing communication with the grassroots, did you discuss the fact we are very concerned because we don't see anything tangible on how the money is being spent? That coupled with not so good results has people putting their wallet back in their pocket.

2) Was the friendly suggestion made in having a presentation/speaking coach broached, and, if so, how was it received?

Thanks for your reply.

michaelwise
01-14-2008, 05:25 PM
I would like to here a directive to the grassroots from the head honcho himself on what to do in the event of his untimely death or loss of nomination due to media blackout. Should we do what we think is best, do a write in campaign, sit out the election, vote third party, infiltrate the republican party to make it better? What does the good doctor think we should do in the end?

I think a statement from Dr. Paul himself on what to do, would go a long way in sending the establishment and the media a strong message.

Soccrmastr
01-14-2008, 05:26 PM
Shouldn't the guy they hired to run the Daily Dose be commenting on grassroots activity?

freedom_junkie
01-14-2008, 05:26 PM
PS

Canvassing and signs do work. Bickering does not. Wonder if half the people on this board are even canvassing w/ the campaign?????

Ronin
01-14-2008, 05:28 PM
No answers directly from the campaign but we are learning all we need to know through indirect means of communications

Thanks for answering my original question. What did you learn?? I think we are all starved for information and being vague doesn't really help matters.

Troyhand
01-14-2008, 05:29 PM
You're doing great things for Ron Paul by trolling on this forum. Congrats.

Third time you called me a troll. I'm happy with my posting history for all to see, so you might as well be calling me a Big Doodyhead. - Grow up, you coward.
I'm criticizing the idea. Are you going to tear apart my behavior or my previous argument like an adult, or are you just going to namecall? Bore me, please with your reply.

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 05:30 PM
I believe the big L's are taking over the campaign as well. guess who heads NY and all its counties practically? Guess who most of the NY delegates are?? meanwhile these people don't number as much as the rest.

Note to the big L's. If you expect us to blindly follow you if RP doesn't get the nomination, take heed. We have mind of our own. We will vote all over the place, some dem, some repub, some constitutional, some lib and some green. Ideolgy does not get the job done. I know many Libs who are not on this agenda, but then again, I know many Libs who are.

+1000 All RP supporters carefully read this thread before attacking anyone

szczebrzeszyn
01-14-2008, 05:30 PM
I like ghemminger a LOT, one of my favorite well known grassroots members.
Me too, he's very entertaining.

free.alive
01-14-2008, 05:30 PM
ghemminger, I'm privy to much, much more than you would think. You just won't hear me talking about it.

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 05:31 PM
Did you ask them where are our anti-war ad is?????????????????????????

No that is a minor problem...

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 05:33 PM
You people need to back the F off of Ghemminger. The bottom line is this:

1) Every issue he listed is real and needs to change from the Paul Campaign

2) He is obviously doing somehting right because he and a few others have the ear of the campaign - they actually had a meeting to address our concerns. he should be thanked for what he did.

3) Troy, it makes no sense to pursue a communication startegy that does not feature an established communication channel to the grassroots. What do you expect the campaign to do, make time in their already busy schedule to field calls from everyone?

4) We need to dispense with all egos and quit bickering. We are running out of time. The only thing that matters is results and it seems like this is a good first step.

Couple of questions:

1) When discussing communication with the grassroots, did you discuss the fact we are very concerned because we don't see anything tangible on how the money is being spent? That coupled with not so good results has people putting their wallet back in their pocket.

2) Was the friendly suggestion made in having a presentation/speaking coach broached, and, if so, how was it received?

Thanks for your reply.

1. Yes they understand your concerns -

2. no too specific for this time

Dave Pedersen
01-14-2008, 05:34 PM
Many want to be a leader but they don't want to lead. Thanks George for your efforts.

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 05:36 PM
Thanks for answering my original question. What did you learn?? I think we are all starved for information and being vague doesn't really help matters.


We learned that the campaign is listening and that Ron Paul himself will or will not make a executive level decsion to get this campaign back on track or not (in the next few days)

Dlynne
01-14-2008, 05:37 PM
Good grief people. Don't ya'll understand that this campaign is in big trouble, with a capital T?

Do you know that scheduled media appearances and press conferences have been canceled with no explanation? That Paul has no support in refining his presentation so that middle America "gets it?" Do you understand that there have been lost opportunities for this campaign, most likely due to ineptness and inexperience?

Yes, I know Paul has run for Congressman and as the Libertarian candidate for President. But this is different. This is the big time, and we are not winning. We should be winning.

I don't care who does the speaking for grassroots, and I don't care about anyone's ego. I want Ron Paul to win this race.

Stealth4
01-14-2008, 05:37 PM
We learned that the campaign is listening and that Ron Paul himself will or will not make a executive level decsion to get this campaign back on track or not.

wow you learned that "Ron Paul will or will not" make a decision? Thats Amazing, you must have ties all the way to the top!

:eek:

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 05:38 PM
Many want to be a leader but they don't want to lead. Thanks George for your efforts.

Thank you Dave - Ours is not the only effort to address issues - there are 3 or more factions pushing foward for major change - one closely aligned with the family....

free.alive
01-14-2008, 05:39 PM
my two cents:

we do not need, nor should the campaign, any centralized effort within or among the grassroots to direct efforts here or there. Each state, each city and then county has different needs, different challenges and different supporters.

what needs to happen is that LOCAL grassroots leaders and LOCAL campaign leaders need to build that bridge between themselves and get working together fast. THis means phone-banking, this means knocking doors and becoming precinct captains.

the majority of us simply have no need to be concerned with what the next ad will be, although if we really do have strong opinions we should have a way to voice them and know the campaign is listening. This already exists.

All politics is local. Politics belongs to those who show up. Canvassing wins votes - everything else is just noise. These are three quotes that continue to refocus me on how I should be approaching victory in Washington, and what I should be encouraging others to do.

Yes! - to an open line of communication and a campaign representative that will report back to the grassroots answers to our concerns and questions.

No! - to a centralized grassroots "committee" (definitely a euphamism) because the grassroots needs to focus and work with the campaign locally, not nationally.

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 05:40 PM
Good grief people. Don't ya'll understand that this campaign is in big trouble, with a capital T?

Do you know that scheduled media appearances and press conferences have been canceled with no explanation? That Paul has no support in refining his presentation so that middle America "gets it?" Do you understand that there have been lost opportunities for this campaign, most likely due to ineptness and inexperience?

Yes, I know Paul has run for Congressman and as the Libertarian candidate for President. But this is different. This is the big time, and we are not winning. We should be winning.

I don't care who does the speaking for grassroots, and I don't care about anyone's ego. I want Ron Paul to win this race.


Thank you Dlynne - we are hoping for a executive level grassroots board to be commisioned to help make Ron Paul make some very difficult decsions....soon

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 05:43 PM
my two cents:

we do not need, nor should the campaign, any centralized effort within or among the grassroots to direct efforts here or there. Each state, each city and then county has different needs, different challenges and different supporters.

what needs to happen is that LOCAL grassroots leaders and LOCAL campaign leaders need to build that bridge between themselves and get working together fast. THis means phone-banking, this means knocking doors and becoming precinct captains.

the majority of us simply have no need to be concerned with what the next ad will be, although if we really do have strong opinions we should have a way to voice them and know the campaign is listening. This already exists.

All politics is local. Politics belongs to those who show up. Canvassing wins votes - everything else is just noise. These are three quotes that continue to refocus me on how I should be approaching victory in Washington, and what I should be encouraging others to do.

Yes! - to an open line of communication and a campaign representative that will report back to the grassroots answers to our concerns and questions.

No! - to a centralized grassroots "committee" (definitely a euphamism) because the grassroots needs to focus and work with the campaign locally, not nationally.

Free - you are mistakin - National Campaigns are won nationally - good luck with your local work though...

SteveMartin
01-14-2008, 05:49 PM
We could all use a little reality check. The fact is, RP is being BLACKED out totally on the MSM now--even on CNN, who gave us a brief spurt of publicity prior to NH. That is in part due to the very poor effort the campaign has made to coordinate with the media--even in the simple things, like posting RP's events calendar in the AP date book.

They have stiffed many media people for pre-arranged interviews. That stuff is just plain inexcusable.

I would hazard to guess that 90% of those with concerns about national HQ would have agreed with 90% of what was brought up with HQ on the conference call. No one here is doing this out of any desire to "take over" or to pump themselves up at the expense of others. These folks on the call are all (to the best of my knowledge--and I've spoken to all of them many times) trying to do ONE THING AND ONE THING ONLY--Get Dr. Paul elected. They are acting out of an honest sense of patriotism, as best as I can tell.

I wish I could be sure that getting Dr. Paul elected was the #1 goal of everyone in Arlington, but, at this point in time, I can not say that...and that scares the heck out of me.

liberteebell
01-14-2008, 05:52 PM
Good grief people. Don't ya'll understand that this campaign is in big trouble, with a capital T?

Do you know that scheduled media appearances and press conferences have been canceled with no explanation? That Paul has no support in refining his presentation so that middle America "gets it?" Do you understand that there have been lost opportunities for this campaign, most likely due to ineptness and inexperience?

Yes, I know Paul has run for Congressman and as the Libertarian candidate for President. But this is different. This is the big time, and we are not winning. We should be winning.

I don't care who does the speaking for grassroots, and I don't care about anyone's ego. I want Ron Paul to win this race.

+1,000,000

Troyhand
01-14-2008, 05:52 PM
Hold on.
I imagine an Executive-level Super-Duper-structured High-N-Mighty Mega-review Board with well-experienced emotionally-mature diplomatically-driven members such as Ghemminger and Menthol Patch (lol. I'm nearly peeing myself thinking of it.)
I imagine all these wonderful, humble, selfless souls sharing the thoughts of the grassroots rationally and creatively to campaign headquarters. I imagine all our finest loudmouths together in one group speaking for our needs and concerns.
LMAO!
Then I imagine that the moment such a ridiculous farce is formed, practically every member of this forum sending out the same email to the campaign saying basically the same thing, "Please ignore these insecure little powertrippers. They don't speak for us."

I change my mind. I think it's brilliant. What a great way to assemble the people, that we should definitely not be listening to, all in one place. Kudos!

free.alive
01-14-2008, 05:52 PM
Ghemminger, per your response I see you are the one who is mistaken - that is if you deny that a national campaign is won state-by-state, and each state within the counties or congressional districts. In fact politics and the political process can vary so greatly from state to state that a grassroots must understand their local political process and be able to influence it.

The campaign must work nationally, yes, but the grassroots should be focused locally in each state.

But tell me -

If you will be wresting this mantle or title from the ranks of grassroots supporters, what is your purpose? what specific things will you be doing? How do the tens of thousands of us know you will be responsive to us? How do we know you and others aren't just trying to make names for yourselves? And furthermore, how can we even be sure this is a good idea?

These are legitimate questions and must be answered to our satisfaction of you expect support from many others.

Many people do prefer leaders, but those who know better will lead themselves.

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 05:53 PM
Right now Steve what seemed to be an unstoppable juggernaught of a grassroots movement has ben stopped in it's course by misdirection and lack of communication. We we right the ship or continue to "re-arrange deck chairs on the Titanic'?

Some of our biggest financial supporters are leaving us - We need to listen!

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 05:55 PM
Ghemminger, per your response I see you are the one who is mistaken - that is if you deny that a national campaign is won state-by-state, and each state within the counties or congressional districts. In fact politics and the political process can vary so greatly from state to state that a grassroots must understand their local political process and be able to influence it.

The campaign must work nationally, yes, but the grassroots should be focused locally in each state.

But tell me -

If you will be wresting this mantle or title from the ranks of grassroots supporters, what is your purpose? what specific things will you be doing? How do the tens of thousands of us know you will be responsive to us? How do we know you and others aren't just trying to make names for yourselves? And furthermore, how can we even be sure this is a good idea?

These are legitimate questions and must be answered to our satisfaction of you expect support from many others.

Many people do prefer leaders, but those who know better will lead themselves.


We are taking your thoughts into consideration.... and btw it's called "trust"

free.alive
01-14-2008, 05:57 PM
You're one and only task should be to identify local leaders and get them to get their meetup members and other RP supporters out canvassing, finding more people, getting them registered and to the polls or caucuses.

Any other goal of yours is spinning your wheels and a waste of discussion. I'm out-

Dlynne
01-14-2008, 06:01 PM
Thank you Dlynne - we are hoping for a executive level grassroots board to be commisioned to help make Ron Paul make some very difficult decsions....soon

I don't know if we need a executive level grassroots board, or not. I do know that Paul needs a professional national campaign strategist and a professional media coordinator NOW. As one other poster said, we are running out of time.

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 06:03 PM
I don't know if we need a executive level grassroots board, or not. I do know that Paul needs a professional national campaign strategist and a professional media coordinator NOW. As one other poster said, we are running out of time.

Ron Paul will , in the next few days have the information to make some very hard executive level decsions... if he needs a grassroots board to help give him support we are ready!

Stealth4
01-14-2008, 06:03 PM
Trust you?

Based on what? This thread here http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=52196 where you made so many friends by telling us nothing but acting like you knew a big secret? How many times have you said you knew a secret and you were wrong?

right - lets trust you ghemminger. I'd rather trust Rudy Giuliani than you.

Dlynne
01-14-2008, 06:04 PM
We could all use a little reality check. The fact is, RP is being BLACKED out totally on the MSM now--even on CNN, who gave us a brief spurt of publicity prior to NH. That is in part due to the very poor effort the campaign has made to coordinate with the media--even in the simple things, like posting RP's events calendar in the AP date book.

They have stiffed many media people for pre-arranged interviews. That stuff is just plain inexcusable.

(snip)

I wish I could be sure that getting Dr. Paul elected was the #1 goal of everyone in Arlington, but, at this point in time, I can not say that...and that scares the heck out of me.

I agree with this 100%. I also have questioned the motivations of some of the people around him....Not because I know any of them, but because there can be no logical explanation for some of the actions this campaign has taken.

I do know some media people, and I can tell you that the Paul campaign has a reputation for being snobs. I do NOT believe this is due to Ron Paul himself.

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 06:05 PM
Trust you?

Based on what? This thread here http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=52196 where you made so many friends by telling us nothing but acting like you knew a big secret? How many times have you said you knew a secret and you were wrong?

right - lets trust you ghemminger. I'd rather trust Rudy Giuliani than you.

Stealth please tell me you are intelligent to know the diff. between satire and truth - I am getting tired of all these responses - no wonder the campaign doesn't talk you negative posters - are you guys the ones calling up and yelling/cussing at staff?

BreakYourChains
01-14-2008, 06:05 PM
Your welcome Hamadeh - and I will continue to fight for truth even though many are are trying vehemently to silence those that fight for Liberty!

Sorry, didn't have time to read the entire 9 pages of posts. But, what I did do quickly was check out http://ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/.

This is one of the HUGE problems with this campaign, and the people who are running it! One Press Release on the 8th, and none until today, the 14th? Give me a break, no wonder there is a media blackout! There is nothing for them to write or report about, unless of course they are digging up dirt. This is the problem with our campaign. It is not being handled professionally. And, I am not a naysayer, but I can see what is happening.

Hopefully, something will change soon, before it is too late to turn things around.

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 06:06 PM
I agree with this 100%. I also have questioned the motivations of some of the people around him....Not because I know any of them, but because there can be no logical explanation for some of the actions this campaign has taken.

I do know some media people, and I can tell you that the Paul campaign has a reputation for being snobs. I do NOT believe this is due to Ron Paul himself.

THANK GOD! an intelligent person on this thread who can think for himself...try it negative posters - I know it's hard but we' will wait for all of you to catch up....:D

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 06:07 PM
Sorry, didn't have time to read the entire 9 pages of posts. But, what I did do quickly was check out http://ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/.

This is one of the HUGE problems with this campaign, and the people who are running it! One Press Release on the 8th, and none until today, the 14th? Give me a break, no wonder there is a media blackout! There is nothing for them to write or report about, unless of course they are digging up dirt. This is the problem with our campaign. It is not being handled professionally. And, I am not a naysayer, but I can see what is happening.

Hopefully, something will change soon, before it is too late to turn things around.

Wow more logic and smartz! I'm being swayed!!!

Jane Aitken
01-14-2008, 06:09 PM
The campaign just hired someone to communicate with the grassroots. The first thing he did was call me and I spoke to him and posted about it on the DP. I told him my concerns about NH, voting, the message, the fact that people didn't even know which ballot to choose until the NEWSPAPERS told them.

Second, what good does it do to speak to the person you want to oust? Who would you suggest run the campaign instead of the current people? They have worked with Ron for years.

Vizacar
01-14-2008, 06:11 PM
Sorry, didn't have time to read the entire 9 pages of posts. But, what I did do quickly was check out http://ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/.

This is one of the HUGE problems with this campaign, and the people who are running it! One Press Release on the 8th, and none until today, the 14th? Give me a break, no wonder there is a media blackout! There is nothing for them to write or report about, unless of course they are digging up dirt. This is the problem with our campaign. It is not being handled professionally. And, I am not a naysayer, but I can see what is happening.

Hopefully, something will change soon, before it is too late to turn things around.


This release from today also says...
In Illinois, Dr. Paul has delegate candidates on the IL Republican ballot in all 19 Congressional districts. Additionally, the most recent Rasmussen Reports poll places Ron Paul in third position in Tuesday’s New Hampshire primary, at 14 percent.

??? Does it sound like it was a poll from before the NH primary? Wow that is :eek:

Troyhand
01-14-2008, 06:11 PM
Troy just because you have 500 posts doesn't mean you are a well meaning 3rd party troll

It DOESN'T mean that? Glad to here it. Although I'm guessing you're still namecalling even though you didn't type it right.
So why don't you address my ORIGINAL concerns about why this is a bad idea.
That a centralized board for a decentralized movement cannot work and will be a big waste of time from more well-proven efforts.
That it'll be loud-mouthed power-hungry prima-donna egomaniacs that will want to be on the board and not the type of people that will properly represent us (if there is such a person).
And that the people in this movement will never take such a board seriously, thereby making such an effort useless to implement.
CAN YOU PLEASE ADDRESS THESE CONCERNS?
Or is this entire thread about you and what you want? If it is, I'll move on to more important concerns, because this is your umpteenth thread trying to get this bad idea off the ground and now I'm sure you're just tilting at windmills.

Stealth4
01-14-2008, 06:16 PM
Ghemminger,

I know there are problems at the campaign - I've been to HQ and I know a few people.

The issue here is that you dont fight fire with fire, as in, you certainly are not the right person to lead a grassroots effort to "fix" the official campaign.

You are here, doing this for attention, trying to make up to the forum that you pissed off. I've never seen so much justified anger toward one member on any forum before, until you, ghemminger came along.

diggronpaul
01-14-2008, 06:16 PM
Excuse me, but wasn't this idea of an "Executive-level Prima-donna-picked Calling-All-Power-Hungry-Egomaniacs Listen-To-Me! Listen-To-Me! I-Speak-For-The GRASSROOTS!!!" Review Board offered by you a few weeks ago and was basically spanked down by most the members as a bad idea because centralizing the voice of a movement that advocates decentralization goes against its philosophy. There are too many differing opinions in this movement and I for one will not trust someone who says "I speak for you" just because they think they are qualified to do so. It's an elitist idea that won't work and is just asking for problems.
We have a man from the campaign who is hired to monitor our concerns and to keep us updated on his blog which has been up only a week. That's what we needed and it's going to help immensely. We DON'T need a group of egomaniacs speaking for us.
Are you going to keep pimping this bad idea ad nauseum until you get your way, ghemminger? Because even if you get your way, I guarantee that it won't last a week before the members here see it for a farce and will call and email the campaign on their own that much harder. This is a waste of time that'll bite us all on the ass.
Who the heck are these self-appointed "leaders" contacting HQ on my behalf? I never appointed anyone, nor gave anyone the authority to speak to this campaign on my behalf. I resent this effort on the part of these individuals and request that this irresponsible behavior cease.

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 06:18 PM
Ghemminger,

I know there are problems at the campaign - I've been to HQ and I know a few people.

The issue here is that you dont fight fire with fire, as in, you certainly are not the right person to lead a grassroots effort to "fix" the official campaign.

You are here, doing this for attention, trying to make up to the forum that you pissed off. I've never seen so much justified anger toward one member on any forum before, until you, ghemminger came along.

Noted. I am not a leader I'm just getting shit done - thanks for not helping me - same to you troy hand

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 06:18 PM
Who the heck are these self-appointed "leaders" contacting HQ on my behalf? I never appointed anyone not gave anyone the authorize to speak to this campaign on my behalf. I resent this effort on the part of these individuals and request that this irresponsible behavior cease.

Mr. 33

We are not doing anything on your behalf so please stuff it. thanks :D

Dlynne
01-14-2008, 06:19 PM
The campaign just hired someone to communicate with the grassroots.

Why didn't the campaign hire someone who knows what he/she is doing to communicate with media? Although it is not smart, I don't care if grassroots is subjected to condecension or indifference. I do care if the media is treated that way.

Stealth4
01-14-2008, 06:22 PM
Noted. I am not a leader I'm just getting shit done - thanks for not helping me - same to you troy hand

Not sure we "need" a grassroots board.

We do "NEED" new campaign leadership.

How are you going to get new campaign leadership unless you talk to Ron Paul himself and convince him? You also would need suggestions for people to replace those you kick out. You cant just kick people out and have no replacements.

There I helped. If you want to help ghemminger I suggest you find a new leader/spokesman for this effort. Many here dont trust you or want to hear from you about the campaign.

alaric
01-14-2008, 06:24 PM
ghemminger, I'm privy to much, much more than you would think. You just won't hear me talking about it.
Is what you are privy to good or bad? And can everyone here remember to keep their eye on the ball: TO GET RON PAUL ELECTED! Jees, stop all the bickering and name calling!:eek:

pacelli
01-14-2008, 06:24 PM
there are 3 or more factions pushing foward for major change - one closely aligned with the family....

Since I was already aware of mostly everything that was posted, as I read & contributed to the threads leading up to the conference call, this is the most informative statement that I've read so far in this thread. Thanks for passing it along, this is very telling.

Troyhand
01-14-2008, 06:28 PM
Noted. I am not a leader I'm just getting shit done - thanks for not helping me - same to you troy hand

"Getting 'shit' done" is correct.
Bad idea.
And none of us are obligated to help YOU, Ghemminger. (So I guess this is about you after all.)
We're on this forum to help the campaign. And that includes stopping bad ideas from taking energy from the movement.

Everybody here is supposed to care about the movement first and foremost.
Nobody here gives a damn about me. (Nor should they. I'm just a snowflake.)
And nobody gives a damn about you. Live with it. We got a revolution to fight.

SteveMartin
01-14-2008, 06:29 PM
Setting up some sort of a board was certainly not in anyway a central discussion on today's conference call. In fact, I honestly don't remember if it even came up.

But, I would like to propose that if any kind of grassroots advisory board is eventually permitted by national HQ, that we hold an election for those positions right here.

Why not??

pacelli
01-14-2008, 06:30 PM
Hold on.
I imagine an Executive-level Super-Duper-structured High-N-Mighty Mega-review Board with well-experienced emotionally-mature diplomatically-driven members such as Ghemminger and Menthol Patch (lol. I'm nearly peeing myself thinking of it.)
I imagine all these wonderful, humble, selfless souls sharing the thoughts of the grassroots rationally and creatively to campaign headquarters. I imagine all our finest loudmouths together in one group speaking for our needs and concerns.
LMAO!

With all due respect, it is tough to get an idea of someone's soul or personality based on their typing skills.

rodo1776
01-14-2008, 06:30 PM
boy is it fun to listen to all you "senior" members. Us newbies maybe are More concerned about getting out votes and learning how to caucus and win an election. Boys boys boys have your senior level conversations somewhere else. You just can't seem to get along can you. Stuff your egos and be happy that something positive may be occurring with better communication. We hear that message and all you old senior farts sit around and try to decide who is king shit and hashing over personal shit that hapened last year. Real inspiration for us new people. thanks allot.

SteveMartin
01-14-2008, 06:39 PM
"Senior members" has nothing to do with anything. The moderators here should turn that "titling" crap off.

Look, some of us got together and took some action which we hope will have a positive outcome. Some of you prefer to sit and whine at those who took action, and just let the campaign HQ run the whole campaign into the ground. That's fine,w to each his own.

But, before you charge George Hemminger with anymore of these false charges, why don't you offer some constructive criticism about how we should go about addressing concerns with the official campaign?

You know the upper guys tell the little guys that they can go to jail if they talk to grassroots people, right?

Let's start by seeing the citation in the law for that one. Seems pretty anti-1st amendment to me.

AND, for those who weren't paying attention, the next step is to call RP personally. It is not like we are putting all of our eggs into one basket here...

dirknb@hotmail.com
01-14-2008, 06:43 PM
In a nut shell - something you don't reallly want to hear.... The top level executives in this campaign need to be replaced....with high level competent national campaign strategists......

No, actually we have wanted to hear that. It's been obvious for quite awhile. What is taking so long?

free.alive
01-14-2008, 06:45 PM
Do you want to be a grassroots leader?

How To Win This Election! (http://voters.ronpaul2008.com/grassrootscentral.test/menu.php)

Anything else is just....noise.

Troyhand
01-14-2008, 06:46 PM
With all due respect, it is tough to get an idea of someone's soul or personality based on their typing skills.

I disagree. It's just another form of communication where our judgement can form an opinion of behavior, habit and philosophy of the writer by what that person writes. We can learn just as much from typing as we can from talking to each other. There are setbacks in writing in that one can never trust the sincerety of what's being written, but the same can apply to what's being said. Only this time we can't look into that person's eyes.

That's another reason why an executive board shouldn't be trusted.

But, one thing is for certain. Human behavior is predictable. Any kind of centralized power, any kind of control mechanism that represents the voices of the majority AND the minority, any kind of ruling body will be instantly and initially attracted to by the least-deserving person. It's control will be fought over by the most power-hungry, insecure, self-centered, narcissistic type of personality. History shows it over and over again. That'll happen for sure with this so-called "executive board."
It's a bad idea. It's an example as to why the founders wrote the Constitution in the first place.

Menthol Patch
01-14-2008, 06:48 PM
Everyone here needs to calm down.

Those involved in the conference call were not trying to take over anything. They are not going to be our bosses, rulers, or leaders. Also, they are not trying to FORCE the official campaign to do anything.

They are simply individuals who have seen the same problems we have all seen and are taking action! Amazingly, they actually have at least some limited ACCESS to the official campaign.

We complain, moan, and groan about all kinds of issues. These people are trying to see that changes are made!

constituent
01-14-2008, 06:50 PM
are people wound up again?

i had a bad day at work and missed this thread..... until page 12.

c'mon people.

constituent
01-14-2008, 06:51 PM
I disagree. It's just another form of communication where our judgement can form an opinion of behavior, habit and philosophy of the writer by what that person writes. We can learn just as much from typing as we can from talking to each other. There are setbacks in writing in that one can never trust the sincerety of what's being written, but the same can apply to what's being said. Only this time we can't look into that person's eyes.

That's another reason why an executive board shouldn't be trusted.

But, one thing is for certain. Human behavior is predictable. Any kind of centralized power, any kind of control mechanism that represents the voices of the majority AND the minority, any kind of ruling body will be instantly and initially attracted to by the least-deserving person. It's control will be fought over by the most power-hungry, insecure, self-centered, narcissistic type of personality. History shows it over and over again. That'll happen for sure with this so-called "executive board."
It's a bad idea. It's an example as to why the founders wrote the Constitution in the first place.

glad to have you aboard, i don't believe i've had the opportunity...


hello.

free.alive
01-14-2008, 06:53 PM
Is what you are privy to good or bad?

A little of both, but mostly good if people get their heads out of their....


I'll start over. Mostly things are still looking up, but we need to galvanize efforts instead of break into "factions" and we need to be focusing locally instead of trying to run the campaign. Take control over what you can most easily effect - your precinct, neighborhood, city, county, congressional district, state.... This is where our energies should be.

Then, even if the campaign makes some mistakes along the way, which they will, we can be sure that we have voters on the ground in our area, and rest assured that those of us a precinct, county or state over have done the same.

Honestly, it's not rocket science. All campaigns have mostly the same strategy - find voters, put them in a database, turn them out on voting day. This grassroots seems to believe it will reinvent the wheel. It would be nice, but we should focus on the basics first.

give this a try (http://voters.ronpaul2008.com/grassrootscentral.test/menu.php)

jp5065
01-14-2008, 06:55 PM
Everyone here needs to calm down.

Those involved in the conference call were not trying to take over anything. They are not going to be our bosses, rulers, or leaders. Also, they are not trying to FORCE the official campaign to do anything.

They are simply individuals who have seen the same problems we have all seen and are taking action! Amazingly, they actually have at least some limited ACCESS to the official campaign.

We complain, moan, and groan about all kinds of issues. These people are trying to see that changes are made!

+1

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 06:56 PM
Everyone here needs to calm down.

Those involved in the conference call were not trying to take over anything. They are not going to be our bosses, rulers, or leaders. Also, they are not trying to FORCE the official campaign to do anything.

They are simply individuals who have seen the same problems we have all seen and are taking action! Amazingly, they actually have at least some limited ACCESS to the official campaign.

We complain, moan, and groan about all kinds of issues. These people are trying to see that changes are made!

+2

Troyhand
01-14-2008, 06:56 PM
glad to have you aboard, i don't believe i've had the opportunity...


hello.

Greetings.
Nice to meet you, too.

Michigan11
01-14-2008, 07:32 PM
Do whatever you want guys. The bottom line is, if we do poorly in MI tomorrow changes MUST COME, and you will all need to wake up and smell the coffee and join those of us who are TRYING to make improvements, or not...But leave George alone. None of us are perfect, but some of us have way too much invested in this movement to just let it fade into a footnote in history.

I have read your posts on the meetup pages, and I agree with your sentiments on this campaign.

I like this guy's intentions people.

Back this guy and the original poster of this thread up. We need change in the campaign NOW to win!

Michigan11
01-14-2008, 07:35 PM
Yes, yes, yes!!!! We want to win...we need to win! I just hope "strategists" include top notch, experienced media coordinators or relations people.

Thank you ghemminger, and anyone else who made this contact with the Paul campaign happen! Thank you.

I second that!

llepard
01-14-2008, 07:49 PM
George, thank you for the effort you are making.

The people who are responding on this thread (except SteveMartin and a few other exceptions) are vile and immature.

Read this thread and you will see why I have basically withdrawn from this forum.

And I don't want to hear about how this is an exception--just withdraw.

Almost everyone who has posted here should ask themselves, would Ron Paul respond this way to a fellow supporter?

Would he?

I leave you to your originally scheduled gratuitous immature bashing.

LWL

hawkeyenick
01-14-2008, 07:54 PM
Menthol Patch or Liberty Thor should be posting minutes soon. HQ listened in to many of our concerns but were unable to repond, at least on the call. I will be following up in the next few days to see if we have a response.

Currently there are 3 major movements within the campaign asking for redirecting existing staff or hiring new strategists. We are bringing up the concept of an executive level board and direct communications with Ron.

Many of the concerns brought up in threads on this board were discussed and we are giving the campaign time to respond. Thanks


Menthol Patch (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=6558) http://www.ronpaulforums.com/gfx_RedWhiteBlue/statusicon/user_online.gif
Senior Member
about:Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,320


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/gfx_RedWhiteBlue/icons/icon1.gif

The following are what I remember being mentioned. The following are NOT in order.

1) The campaign needs to communicate better with the grassroots. Many people are very upset about this.

2) If the campaign cannot communicate with the campaign for legal reasons those reasons need to be specified.

3) The campaign needs to have one person work full-time communicating within the limits of the law to the grassroots.

4) The racism issue was discussed.

5) It was mentioned the campaign needs to set a new fundraising goal and put a meter on their website.

6) They need to state when the money needs to be raised by and what it will be spent on.

7) The campaign needs to take advantage of all the talent in the grassroots. There are people who would work for free or almost free.

8) If the campaign does not address these issues then a group of people will contact Ron Paul.

9) The campaign needs to stop canceling radio interviews.

Steve Martin

The bureaucracy in this campaign is harmful. We are trying to give the grassroots a seat at the table.

I know that a letter was hand-delivered to RP this afternoon which contained many of our concerns.


We could all use a little reality check. The fact is, RP is being BLACKED out totally on the MSM now--even on CNN, who gave us a brief spurt of publicity prior to NH. That is in part due to the very poor effort the campaign has made to coordinate with the media--even in the simple things, like posting RP's events calendar in the AP date book.

They have stiffed many media people for pre-arranged interviews. That stuff is just plain inexcusable.

I would hazard to guess that 90% of those with concerns about national HQ would have agreed with 90% of what was brought up with HQ on the conference call. No one here is doing this out of any desire to "take over" or to pump themselves up at the expense of others. These folks on the call are all (to the best of my knowledge--and I've spoken to all of them many times) trying to do ONE THING AND ONE THING ONLY--Get Dr. Paul elected. They are acting out of an honest sense of patriotism, as best as I can tell.

I wish I could be sure that getting Dr. Paul elected was the #1 goal of everyone in Arlington, but, at this point in time, I can not say that...and that scares the heck out of me.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/image.php?u=239&dateline=1179776096 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=239)llepard (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=239) http://www.ronpaulforums.com/gfx_RedWhiteBlue/statusicon/user_online.gif
Senior Member
About:Join Date: May 2007
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Posts: 349


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/gfx_RedWhiteBlue/icons/icon1.gif Stop the madness
George, thank you for the effort you are making.

The people who are responding on this thread (except SteveMartin and a few other exceptions) are vile and immature.

Read this thread and you will see why I have basically withdrawn from this forum.

And I don't want to hear about how this is an exception--just withdraw.

Almost everyone who has posted here should ask themselves, would Ron Paul respond this way to a fellow supporter?

Would he?

I leave you to your originally scheduled gratuitous immature bashing.

LWL


...and everything we gained from NH was ignored.

wow, this is complete bullshit. no one even read the exit polls I'm betting.

I don't care how much you connect with the grassroots, if you don't have a more unified message that addresses the voters concerns (the anti-war republicans and the economy), this is all for nothing.

apparently no one wants to win.

Menthol Patch
01-14-2008, 07:55 PM
...and everything we gained from NH was ignored.

wow, this is complete bullshit. no one even read the exit polls I'm betting.

I don't care how much you connect with the grassroots, if you don't have a more unified message that addresses the concerns, this is all for nothing.

apparently no one wants to win.

The truth about the exit polls is that many Republicans that are fed up with the war are fed up because they want to see more blood!

Menthol Patch
01-14-2008, 07:56 PM
Being anti-Bush to many Republicans means believing we don't have enough troops in Iraq.

hawkeyenick
01-14-2008, 07:59 PM
The truth about the exit polls is that many Republicans that are fed up with the war are fed up because they want to see more blood!

you didn't read the polls if you think that, McCain somehow managed to get the anti-war vote (which turns out is a huge portion of the GOP). that means that they didn't know he was anti-war and/or they didn't think ron could win (which made even more sense when you notice that more people leaning ron paul voted for mccain than voted for ron paul)

see, this is what I'm saying, no one pays attention to what people want so we have a PR problem

we can not win unless people start paying attention to the marketing side

fedup100
01-14-2008, 08:01 PM
What the hell is he supposed to? Every topic he ever makes is trolled by you people.

Wake up old senior members. We are being played the fool here by professional traitors that have inflitrated. The traitors that are infecting the grassroots are rampant on this forum. We must do something to stop this cancer now. These people are here for one reason and one reason only, to report to Sean Insanity and the other task masters that want to stop Ron Paul.

Most if not all of the professional instigators here on this forum are being paid to screw their own families and children out of a free and prosperous life, and their one goal is to make sure Ron Paul is not elected.....that is how disturbed they are!

We need a password protected area of this forum for trusted members where we can discuss what needs to be done in order to get Ron Paul elected. This exercise of arguing and fighting in public must stop now. We by allowing this are allowing the grassroot support to dwindle away and the enemy is laughing at us.

The moderators will not control the the enemy here. So fine let them post the most despicable crap in their area....the one for new members. That area does not come up on a new posts search. They can read the main forum, but they cannot interact until they have proven themselves. Any negative, "he can't win", "were screwed" posts and baby, your out of here. They can join the main forum with a invite from a senior member and then they must receive 3 additional o.k's. by other senior members.

If after being allowed in the main forum, if this type of "troy" crap starts, I want them gone!!! Freedom also means you can choose who you want to be affiliated with. I choose to be with Paul supporters.

Now if this is not possible........then please Llepard or any one that can, give us a place as far as a forum where we can do the serious work of bringing in supporters and workers who do have the same goal of helping Dr. Paul.

Menthol Patch
01-14-2008, 08:04 PM
I agree. There are paid traitors that have infiltrated this forum.

The Minister
01-14-2008, 08:33 PM
Do what RP would do.




Talk about the issues.
Don't sling mud.
Stay focused.
Stay upbeat.
Be polite.
Be honest.
Be well researched.
Be prepared to provide evidence.
Protect your freedoms.
Protect others freedoms.( including someone whom you think may be an enemy.)



This is going to get out of hand, if it hasn't already. I have already been called an impostor in the boxing debate by someone who didn't think anyone should have a slightly different opinion than themselves. In fighting is the surest way to lose.


On the other hand, this thing will be minimized if people communicate with others about the revolution the old fashioned way...... talk to them. It is also the most effective.

Brian Bailey
01-14-2008, 08:38 PM
I do not appreciate this charade. Self-appointed leaders are not leaders at all.

There are any number of qualified individuals who could represent the grassroots if there were indeed a mandate from the community.

Simply being on the forums frequently and gathering complaints is not useful and it does not make one a leader or a spokesperson. In fact, to paraphrase Douglas Adams, the type of person who would nominate himself for such a position is exactly the type of person who should not hold that position.

I run the fifth most popular Ron Paul website on the internet and I am a Precinct Leader, County Coordinator, and Office Manager for the campaign. If the community wants leaders with experience, accomplishments, and qualifications, there are plenty of people like myself to be found. We do not need the guidance of a group of people whose main qualifications are that they frequent the forums.

Even if their intentions are true and pure, this effort is tainted by hubris.

(While I am not even sure who all of these mysterious individuals are and therefore do not know exactly who I am directing this to, I will say that the one person I am not addressing this to is Mr. Lepard, whom I had the good fortune of talking to before his famous acts of generosity and whose intentions I believe to be good and pure.)

kill the banks
01-14-2008, 08:41 PM
we do need to stop posting emotions and stick to constructive solutions to any thread ... i want to win by doing our best ... grassroots can do a lot esp in local advertising in local newspapers that worked in iowa ... we need to build on what's successful and weed out what is not ... to me ron paul is the boss ~ perhaps with better communication we can be more productive

kill the banks

Meiun
01-14-2008, 08:42 PM
What the hell is all of this shit??? Why is there any discussion at all between this forum and Ron Paul?

The GRASSROOTS has ONE JOB! ONE THING TO DO!!! GET RON PAUL'S NAME OUT TO THE MASSES!

To assume that spending time here, talking and deliberating who is in control of what, and trying to make some silly arrangements to coordinate shit... is ABSOLUTELY WASTED TIME!

PEOPLE! We have a Revolution to attend to! Get off your duff and get out there! The ONLY THING that matters is one more vote.

ONE MORE VOTE!

ONE MORE VOTE! Shout it out at you canvass! ONE MORE VOTE.

All the rest is bullshit.

Hook
01-14-2008, 08:45 PM
So, any word on whom Dr. Paul may hire as a strategist?

Malakai0
01-14-2008, 09:00 PM
All of these idea's are counter productive. You're damaging the campaign and momentum we had with all this negativity and demanding things of the official campaign.


Grassroots here, official campaign doing it's own thing there, is how it has always been. Leave HQ and RP alone and let them carry on their plans.


The media did achieve something over the last 2 weeks. They managed to turn a small but loud minority of the grassroots into a huge distraction and negative force for RP and his staff.


Ignore the media's negative bs, we knew it was coming for a very long time.

Leave HQ alone, do what they ask, don't add to their workload.


IMO 2 great pieces of advice. Keep doing our thing on the ground, step it up a notch or 2 even! The grassroots has been what got the attn of the msm every time these blackout periods hit, so leave hq alone and do some grassroots stuff. Surprise people, be creative!

colecrowe
01-14-2008, 09:01 PM
I hand delivered that letter to Ron Paul in Carson City, NV. It was very respectful of course. It just said how we were desperate for a president like him and as a vet of the Iraq war I wanted him to stop the war so more of my buddies don't get killed and maimed in a war that is not in America's interest, and as a husband whose wife has diabetes, the economic and healthcare crises make it so we need him more than anything. Then it said I wished he would do much more than the good old "college try" and instead really set out to win this thing, and hire really effective campaign staff and improve the ads and really address the racism thing.


HQ listened in to many of our concerns but were unable to repond, at least on the call. I will be following up in the next few days to see if we have a response.


I know that a letter was hand-delivered to RP this afternoon which contained many of our concerns.

BLS
01-14-2008, 09:03 PM
Thank you George, Menthol and Llepard for your input.

I am glad that HQ is willing to listen to our concerns.

I'm on board....please keep me in the loop if you can.

Malakai0
01-14-2008, 09:03 PM
We have a lot of people here who seem to think they are leaders of the grassroots... the most you can be in the RP grassroots is leader of your local meetup group. Which is great! But that's it.


Not to say I don't respect the people who have done great things like llepard, but I really think we will look back and see this as a big distraction from what we should be focusing on.

I mean, how many of the "oh yeah we invited RP and he didnt show" claims are even true?

Menthol Patch
01-14-2008, 09:15 PM
Lets get a few things strait.

1) Anyone who thinks that the other candidates would not send paid and/or unpaid trolls in here is ignorant of information warfare tactics that are used all the time.

2) One reason paid or unpaid trolls can be so harmful is that they can make us attack those that simply have different opinions. For example, we may think "X" is bad for the campaign. Just because someone believes in "X" does not make them a troll. However, some people who are consistently negative could be trolls.

colecrowe
01-14-2008, 09:37 PM
I can vouch for that! The bureaucracy in this campaign is harmful. We are trying to give the grassroots a seat at the table.

I know that a letter was hand-delivered to RP this afternoon which contained many of our concerns.


I hand delivered that letter to Ron Paul in Carson City, NV. It was very respectful of course. It just said how we were desperate for a president like him and as a vet of the Iraq war I wanted him to stop the war so more of my buddies don't get killed and maimed in a war that is not in America's interest, and as a husband whose wife has diabetes, the economic and healthcare crises make it so we need him more than anything. Then it said I wished he would do much more than the good old "college try" and instead really set out to win this thing, and hire really effective campaign staff and improve the ads and really address the racism thing....

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 09:41 PM
...

Thank You Cole.....

diggronpaul
01-14-2008, 09:51 PM
I do not appreciate this charade. Self-appointed leaders are not leaders at all.

There are any number of qualified individuals who could represent the grassroots if there were indeed a mandate from the community.

Simply being on the forums frequently and gathering complaints is not useful and it does not make one a leader or a spokesperson. In fact, to paraphrase Douglas Adams, the type of person who would nominate himself for such a position is exactly the type of person who should not hold that position.

...

Even if their intentions are true and pure, this effort is tainted by hubris.
Totally agree.

If the grassroots want effective leadership or representation, then lets have it, but lets assembly representation that is selected based on the merits and capabilities of the individuals, not based on ego and hubris.


I hand delivered that letter to Ron Paul in Carson City, NV. It was very respectful of course. It just said how we were desperate for a president like him and as a vet of the Iraq war I wanted him to stop the war so more of my buddies don't get killed and maimed in a war that is not in America's interest, and as a husband whose wife has diabetes, the economic and healthcare crises make it so we need him more than anything. Then it said I wished he would do much more than the good old "college try" and instead really set out to win this thing, and hire really effective campaign staff and improve the ads and really address the racism thing.
Very nice, Cole. I encourage and appreciate individuals making their desires and concerns known directly to the campaign and/or RP. I am sure RP was very appreciative. I am also sure all of us are quite capable of responsible and mature direct communication with RP and his staff.

Dlynne
01-14-2008, 10:00 PM
I hand delivered that letter to Ron Paul in Carson City, NV. It was very respectful of course. (snip) Then it said I wished he would do much more than the good old "college try" and instead really set out to win this thing, and hire really effective campaign staff and improve the ads and really address the racism thing.

Ok, you can flame away at me. But, really, I wish your letter had said a little bit more than that. The cold hard facts are that this campaign is going no where, really fast. :( But maybe there is nothing that can be done at this point.

tmg19103
01-14-2008, 10:09 PM
We learned that the campaign is listening and that Ron Paul himself will or will not make a executive level decsion to get this campaign back on track or not (in the next few days)

As much as I love RP and what he stands for, that is my concern - is he capable of making executive level decisions, which is part and parcel of being president?

Heads need to roll at HQ in regards to many issues - and if RP won't due it, then I will not be able to support him. For that matter, he has pretty much lost my support unless dramatic changes occur and serious issues are addressed.

People have given their hearts and souls to this campaign. People have maxed out credit cards and gone into debt to support RP. Hundreds of thousand of citizens of this country have given a great deal to support RP and what he stands for - and what have we gotten in return? A campaign that appears clueless and scared of its own shadow.

I'm gonna say it - it is time Ron Paul chooses between hundreds of thousands of citizens who have given so much to him, and those he feels the need to show some type of loyalty towards - whether it be current campaign staff or past ghostwriters.

I just don't get it. RP has huge balls when he takes on the neocon establishment. When it comes to the internal workings of his campaign, he appears to be lacking a spine.

Yes, I know these are harsh words, but in my mind RP needs a kick in the pants in order to clear the air (inside and outside the campaign) and get things back on track. Otherwsie, my support is gone, and I can tell you that I don't just speak for myself.

OrbitalGun
01-14-2008, 10:15 PM
Thanks George et al. I am glad to see you are taking some initiative to get things done rather than complaining.

colecrowe
01-14-2008, 10:20 PM
I hand delivered that letter to Ron Paul in Carson City, NV. It was very respectful of course. It just said how we were desperate for a president like him and as a vet of the Iraq war I wanted him to stop the war so more of my buddies don't get killed and maimed in a war that is not in America's interest, and as a husband whose wife has diabetes, the economic and healthcare crises make it so we need him more than anything. Then it said I wished he would do much more than the good old "college try" and instead really set out to win this thing, and hire really effective campaign staff and improve the ads and really address the racism thing.Ok, you can flame away at me. But, really, I wish your letter had said a little bit more than that. The cold hard facts are that this campaign is going no where, really fast. :( But maybe there is nothing that can be done at this point.

It said a ton (relatively). It had a page and a half about how right he is and how much we need him as president. But then it had 2 and a half pages about how he needs to step up the Campaign by hiring better, more professional people. It really criticized the horrible ads and said how there are tons of people who are skilled, motivated, and creative that would work on ads for him. It really criticized the lack of ads focused on war, taxes, civil liberties, and the economy--ESPECIALLY contrast ads with McCain and Obama, (especially bomb bomb Iran, 100 years in Iraq, not out of Iraq 'til 2013, and voting record on Patriot act and taxes). Then it said if he hit these five issues really hard with really awesome ads he could win, because he has the best message, the best record, the best character, the best supporters, and tons of cash:

really get us out of Iraq
and lower taxes
and stop inflation
and solve the debt
and protect civil liberties.

and that message with an amazing campaign staff and great ads will win it for him.

It then said the Racist newsletter stuff is not going away unless they respond and repudiate it strongly and clearly. I said they should lay out all the evidence--because there is tons of it--by for instance making a timeline showing how few of the letters were offensive and thus how easy it would be to miss them, and post it online. And then post all of his statements he has ever made about race, minorities, etc. And also post about all his dealings with minorities while he was practicing medicine. And then show how the stuff couldn't have been written by him because the stuff has "him" boasting that he voted against MLK holiday, but in fact he voted for it, and to post the vote record. And it has "him" saying he told his family to learn how to use guns, so they should post the video of him saying he has never owned a gun.

fedup100
01-14-2008, 10:25 PM
As much as I love RP and what he stands for, that is my concern - is he capable of making executive level decisions, which is part and parcel of being president?

Heads need to roll at HQ in regards to many issues - and if RP won't due it, then I will not be able to support him. For that matter, he has pretty much lost my support unless dramatic changes occur and serious issues are addressed.

People have given their hearts and souls to this campaign. People have maxed out credit cards and gone into debt to support RP. Hundreds of thousand of citizens of this country have given a great deal to support RP and what he stands for - and what have we gotten in return? A campaign that appears clueless and scared of its own shadow.

I'm gonna say it - it is time Ron Paul chooses between hundreds of thousands of citizens who have given so much to him, and those he feels the need to show some type of loyalty towards - whether it be current campaign staff or past ghostwriters.

I just don't get it. RP has huge balls when he takes on the neocon establishment. When it comes to the internal workings of his campaign, he appears to be lacking a spine.

Yes, I know these are harsh words, but in my mind RP needs a kick in the pants in order to clear the air (inside and outside the campaign) and get things back on track. Otherwsie, my support is gone, and I can tell you that I don't just speak for myself.

If you really cared about Paul and his campaign and the grassroots, you would take that little rant you just posted and eat it.

The campaign has just begun. The campaign is doing effin fantastic. Sorry you feel the way you do. Be brave, keep your negativity to yourself and just go away if you cannot be positive and helpful.

fedup100
01-14-2008, 10:27 PM
Llepard has done more for this movement than 99% of this board, including me. Everybody should SHUT UP and listen when this man talks. He has experience, he has resources, he has devoted a lot of those resources to the movement. He is behind Ron Paul and his message all the way, and when he sees problems YOU & I should listen to what he says.

His contributions to this movement should guarantee him at the very least a healthy dose of respect.

I am following Llepard whereever he may lead. Please lead us to a safe place to communicate.

skeryl
01-14-2008, 10:30 PM
*sigh*

politics...

fedup100
01-14-2008, 10:31 PM
Lets get a few things strait.

1) Anyone who thinks that the other candidates would not send paid and/or unpaid trolls in here is ignorant of information warfare tactics that are used all the time.

2) One reason paid or unpaid trolls can be so harmful is that they can make us attack those that simply have different opinions. For example, we may think "X" is bad for the campaign. Just because someone believes in "X" does not make them a troll. However, some people who are consistently negative could be trolls.

Agreed. Not to mention, I have noticed that most if not all the newbies have broken English type posts. Most appear to be asian. While I am all for asian americans voting for Paul, something is not smelling real rosie. I suspect we are under a spam attack recruited by the enemy using off shore call rooms.

spiteface
01-14-2008, 10:42 PM
Agreed. Not to mention, I have noticed that most if not all the newbies have broken English type posts. Most appear to be asian. While I am all for asian americans voting for Paul, something is not smelling real rosie. I suspect we are under a spam attack recruited by the enemy using off shore call rooms.

wow

DrCap
01-14-2008, 10:43 PM
I am following Llepard whereever he may lead. Please lead us to a safe place to communicate.

If you happen to move on, let me know... though mostly I use these forums to get info about the campaign and to get support and often times humor, it helps break up the cold midwest january. I've pretty much got my hands full 'til 2/5/8.

romeo2
01-14-2008, 10:45 PM
wow

lol x2

tmg19103
01-14-2008, 11:00 PM
If you really cared about Paul and his campaign and the grassroots, you would take that little rant you just posted and eat it.

The campaign has just begun. The campaign is doing effin fantastic. Sorry you feel the way you do. Be brave, keep your negativity to yourself and just go away if you cannot be positive and helpful.

I spoke from my heart. The grassroots and the campaign are two separate entities and I was speaking to the campaign. They read these threads.

And yes, I currently do not care for the campaign. They have let a lot of people down and they continue to do so.

I supported those in the grassroots in my post. I'm not getting in to a grassroots v. grassroots thing here. The post was meant for the campaign, and many other people share these views about the campaign.

The campaign is NOT doing "effin fanatastic". It needs to get a clue, and as someone who has given a lot of time and money in support fo RP, I'm telling the campaign to get their act together - and doing so starts with Ron Paul. It's time for Dr. paul to either fish or cut bait. RP's message is awesome - the message cured my apathy, and now we need Ron Paul to be the type of leader to take the message to the next level.

Taking it to the next level includes properly addressing the newsletters so they can be put behind the campaign and then coming out swinging in an assertive manner with a solid campaign manager behind RP.

Fields
01-14-2008, 11:04 PM
I'm gonna say it - it is time Ron Paul chooses between hundreds of thousands of citizens who have given so much to him, and those he feels the need to show some type of loyalty towards - whether it be current campaign staff or past ghostwriters.



This is all the letter had to say. Changes or we're out.

electronicmaji
01-14-2008, 11:18 PM
We need a confirmed meetup members only forum...

Llepard the true Paulites here support you!

ghemminger
01-14-2008, 11:34 PM
If you really cared about Paul and his campaign and the grassroots, you would take that little rant you just posted and eat it.

The campaign has just begun. The campaign is doing effin fantastic. Sorry you feel the way you do. Be brave, keep your negativity to yourself and just go away if you cannot be positive and helpful.

Fedup - either you are a neocon troll or blind as a bat - what rock have you been living under homie? :(

hasan
01-15-2008, 12:12 AM
i see whts happening here. too many ppl are gathering bits and pieces of information and

making circumstancial evidence out of them. a piece of advice to people in general. if you don't

know the whole truth please don't give advice because it is more likely than not misguided.

ghemminger and co are trying to help by making some suggestions to the campaign. if you

think your views need to be heard then get some leverage and get your views across. until

then dont criticize other people just because they were able to get their views across to the

campaign.

free.alive
01-15-2008, 12:20 AM
Fedup - either you are a neocon troll or blind as a bat - what rock have you been living under homie?

Ha! It's official!

If you see positives in the campaign or think they're doing an overall good job, you're a likely neocon troll. Ghemminger, I want to be sympathetic to your position and remain open minded, but this is BS and I urge you to retract it.

hasan
01-15-2008, 12:35 AM
everyone chill. think twice before posting. let personal attacks slide and the attackers will seem

ridiculous for it.

free.alive
01-15-2008, 12:40 AM
good point hasan.

Of course, one communication tool to achieve greater understanding between people is to repeat back to them what they are saying, and how it comes off, so they as well can begin to think twice.

I personally would like to see the two sides of the disagreement within this thread come to a conclusion, but be careful, I mostly like the campaign and may be a troll...

tmg19103
01-15-2008, 01:06 AM
And I'm still telling the campaign to get its act together and for RP to step up to the plate in regards to internal managment of the campaign - which needs drastic changes.

RP was brilliant at the S.C. debate. Now we have a media blackout. Why? I believe it goes beyond the standard "the MSM ignores Ron Paul" stuff. The campaign appears to be avoiding the press and I think it has to do with the newsletters. I also think the press blackout is such that the press has chosen to completely discount RP due to the newsletters. They feel his campaign is over so they won't bother reporting or smearing.

The latest batch of newsletters released by TNR today are yet again the worse thing that can happen to a political campaign. You can also tell this batch is written by a different author and it makes me wonder who that is.

I for one have never cared for how overly politically correct our society has become, but in politics - and especially in a presidential race, these newsletters are the worse possible liability you can have. They are a political nightmare.

Ron Paul needs to address this and provide evidence he is not the author, or the author(s) need to come forward because there is no doubt in my mind RP knows who they are, or if not, could find out easily.

This does go to RP's ability to oversee and manage his own affairs and by default, it does go to his character - like it or not.

If the campaign chooses to ignore this issue and just let RP's run die a slow death of lower turnouts in upcoming primaries with dwindling fundraising that leads to RP just droppping out, then he has lost all my respect, and the respect of many others.

If RP ends his campaign shortly, it raises even deeper questions as to his involvement in the newsletters.

RP needs to address this issue in a mature and professional manner so it can be put behind the campaign. If he can't do that, he has let a LOT of people down. He knew about those newsletters when he announced he was running. As I posted before - what did he expect, that they would just go away when he is under a microscope as a presidential candidate?

Why was there no firm strategy in place to address these newsletters and put them to rest when they inevitably came out? This is bleeding the campaign to death.

RP speaks about taking "moral responsibility" for those newsletters having been published. My question to Ron Paul - and whomever from the campaign who is reading this please pass this question on to Dr. Paul, my question to Dr. Paul is: what about your moral responsibilty to your supporters who have given you so much of their time, treasure and trust?

Dan Klaus
01-15-2008, 02:32 AM
Ghemminger, Steve, Leonard and others are working to change things with this campaign - or we will not win...maintaining the status quo and doing things the way they have been going is not a recipe for success...though I don't necessarily agree with forming a grassroots committee of sorts - I respect these guys for getting into the mix and trying to change things...

all J's in IL for RP
01-15-2008, 03:39 AM
There needs to be more awareness in people who ascribe to themselves leadership responsibilities the power of their posts on the general viewership of this forum. People pattern themselves after the more "established" posters, whether by post count, join date or ability to demagogue. That is a psychological fact.

There may be problems with the campaign. This is even alluded to in one of the later missives from Ron himself. I may even have problems with the campaign. But it serves no useful function to come on the grassroots board and complain about it to the general public. To use the same tactic of rallying the membership to accomplish something like pushing up youtube video stats or a digg article, or the more dubious goal of e-mail bombing journalists, to air dirty laundry and vent frustration with the direction of the campaign is to encourage every other poster on this forum, especially the newcomers, to do likewise. What we do NOT need is a grassroots that's obsessed with the general idea that "there's something wrong at HQ and things need to change."

There IS a problem right now in fundraising, in that it's off; dramatically. This is partly due to the fact that we didn't do as well as expected in NH (I'm leaving Iowa out, here, as it doesn't belong). But it's largely owing to the grassroots busying itself in matters that does nothing to promote Ron Paul's candidacy. Then there are the people who go around constantly posting that they're cutting off the campaign if HQ doesn't run a specific ad or visit their particular state or address some other personal gripe that motivate them. If you haven't noticed, there are STILL many new people coming to and posting on this board. His message is reaching new people for the first time daily. What impressions are we giving them?

What is not needed is a self appointed cadre of members trying to foist a group-think solution to a complex problem on the national campaign. This movement has come up with some good ideas and strategies to raise awareness. It has also been the source of some monumentally stupid ideas that has resulted in seriously damaging blowback.

The more reasonable approach is, after noticing a specific fault or seeming oversight you want addressed, to write the national campaign in a cogent manner as a supporter representing yourself (or even a small coalition of supporters, if you wish to use PM's or emails to coordinate among yourselves). If enough of these individual complaints focus on a particular issue, then it's probably something the campaign should rectify, or at least explain. If HQ doesn't respond to the collective, but individually expressed wisdom of the grassroots effectively, the campaign is indeed in trouble. If Ron Paul doesn't recognize this and affect a change himself, then his candidacy is doomed and nothing you do or say will save him.

I happen to think it's way too premature to think the above is true or inevitable. There has been, after all, only 3 states and a couple of weeks to see the campaign in action.

But this public airing of laundry by long established grassroots members needs to end. NOW.

ghemminger
01-15-2008, 09:15 AM
From PM:
Hey Guys,

I just wanted to encourage you in what you are doing trying to bridge the gap between the grassroots and the campaign. The nature of this beast is the unrealistic view that the grassroots needs no organization and the campaign that does not seem to grasp at all what to do with the teeming masses needing some direction and demanding some results.

I noted my concerns as an outside observer last week in an open letter posted on the forum. If the campaign and Dr. Paul do not listen to you guys, then they are not going to listen to anyone at this point which will prove to be the undoing of his effort.

Don't be discouraged by the naysayers who "didn't give anyone permission to speak on their behalf." If you want to avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing and be nothing.

Have a great day!

BLS
01-15-2008, 09:27 AM
From PM:
Hey Guys,

I just wanted to encourage you in what you are doing trying to bridge the gap between the grassroots and the campaign. The nature of this beast is the unrealistic view that the grassroots needs no organization and the campaign that does not seem to grasp at all what to do with the teeming masses needing some direction and demanding some results.

I noted my concerns as an outside observer last week in an open letter posted on the forum. If the campaign and Dr. Paul do not listen to you guys, then they are not going to listen to anyone at this point which will prove to be the undoing of his effort.

Don't be discouraged by the naysayers who "didn't give anyone permission to speak on their behalf." If you want to avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing and be nothing.

Have a great day!


George, anything new?
PM me if you don't want it public.

diggronpaul
01-15-2008, 10:35 AM
From PM:
Hey Guys,

I just wanted to encourage you in what you are doing trying to bridge the gap between the grassroots and the campaign. The nature of this beast is the unrealistic view that the grassroots needs no organization and the campaign that does not seem to grasp at all what to do with the teeming masses needing some direction and demanding some results.

I noted my concerns as an outside observer last week in an open letter posted on the forum. If the campaign and Dr. Paul do not listen to you guys, then they are not going to listen to anyone at this point which will prove to be the undoing of his effort.

Don't be discouraged by the naysayers who "didn't give anyone permission to speak on their behalf." If you want to avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing and be nothing.

Have a great day!
G, say whatever you want to say to the campaign or anyone else.... articulating your thoughts, ideas and opinions directly to HQ is fair and expected.

But leveraging the thousands of people here on this forum and giving the impression to the campaign and those here that you somehow speak for them is an abuse of this forum and the people on it.